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Poll: Bitcoin Reaches $10,000 or $100 first?

Does Bitcoin Move To $10,000 or $100 Next?


  • Total voters
    35

Joe King

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FFS, this is now the most asinine comment you've made. It's completely laughable for you to be interjecting such idiotic nonsense. Do you not have even the slightest idea of what you're trying to talk about?
I know exactly what I'm talking about. If you see any asinine comments in this thread, they're yours.

Gold can most certainly be money by fiat. Anything can. Being decreed as money by the gov does not mean the thing can'talso have value beyond that. A bushel of wheat could be made to be money. You could spend it, or if there were no one to trade with and you were hungry, you could make something to eat out of it.
Same with gold. If tomorrow the gov says gold is now money and 1 ounce has a fixed value of $1500. It would in fact be "by fiat".

Fiat3.PNG




It's as if you've got blinders on and can't grasp the concept of fiat currency.
I grasp it just fine. It is you who is having issues with words.


The only thing you're focused on is "government decree". That's only necessary when the currency is intrinsically worthless - - such as USDs or bitcoins - - and have no other tangible use other than as a medium of exchange. It can't be redeemed or converted into anything.
So during the time of the gold standard, you honestly believe that the gov did not have a law decreeing that a certain weight of gold was a certain Dollar amount of money? You really think that huh?
....and you call my posts asinine?

The Gold Standard Act of the United States was passed in 1900 (approved on March 14) and established gold as the only standard for redeeming paper money, stopping bimetallism (which had allowed silverin exchange for gold). It was signed by President William McKinley.
The Act made the de facto gold standard in place since the Coinage Act of 1873 (whereby debt holders could demand reimbursement in whatever metal was preferred—usually gold) a de jure gold standard alongside other major European powers at the time.

The Act fixed the value of the dollar at  25 8⁄10 grains of gold at "nine-tenths fine" (90% purity), equivalent to 23.22 grains (1.5046 grams) of pure gold.

The Gold Standard Act confirmed the United States' commitment to the gold standard by assigning gold a specific dollar value (just over $20.67 per Troy ounce).


So what is that if not a formal authorization, proposition or decree of the US government?
Edited to add:...and there other laws that declared a certain amount of gold to be $5 coins, $10 coins, $20 coins, etc etc. All of that is by gov decree. Ie: the gov says it is, so it is.





"Honesty" will never ever happen as long as there's an opportunity personal gain involved with being deceitful.
Honesty is why bitcoin is trusted. Any other system imperfect people are required to run it. People who are subject to temptation. With the blockchain, there's no cheating it. If you try to spend btc that the rest of the chain does not recognize it won't work. Ie: there can never be too many claim checks.

Have there ever been any monetary systems that weren't eventually abused by those running it? BTC seems to have an answer to that.
 
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solarion

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Doesn't this card just basically convert btc to cash? Not near the same as TenX, I'll just have to wait, hehe.
It converts bitcoin to credit dollars...cash if you pop it in an ATM. There are ATM fees if you want cash, but no fees attached to direct debit transactions.

I've looked into the TenX thing a bit and it seems kinda crappy to me. First it supposedly requires a specific app...which sounds to me like someone else will be holding onto your bitcoins...uh no. Secondly there's a fee for every transaction...uh no. Lastly it has extensive KYC crap attached to it. Any one of those three things = a no thanks for me. ymmv.
According to Bloomberg, which reported on TenX’s plans, the company will offer a Visa card tied a digital currency app. This arrangement is intended to let consumers make ordinary purchases at coffee shops and elsewhere using a card backed by bitcoin or other digital assets. Here are more details:

TenX is pitching its debit card as an instant converter of multiple digital currencies into fiat money: the dollars, yen and euros that power most everyday commerce. The company said it takes a 2% cut from each transaction and has received orders for more than 10,000 cards. While transactions are capped at $2,000 a year, users can apply to increase the limit if they undergo identify verification procedures.
http://fortune.com/2017/07/24/bitcoin-visa/
 

#48Fan

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I believe the app is the TenX wallet. Not sure how else it could work. It can store several altcoins to spend. Sure, there is some red tape as they are staying 100% legal. There are fees for the use of all credit/debit cards but the business usually pays it and it's higher than 2%. And why would I even worry about that if the BTC on my TenX card increased 20% that day? Whenever you put BTC on the Bitpay card is justs swaps it to USD and it's price is no longer measured with the market, correct?

ETA: I am invested in TenX because I believe in the team, vision, and product. Part of that 2% fee will go back into rewards to the user and the token holder.
 
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Flight2gold

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These are crazy times. I’m shaking my head at what is ahead for Bitcoin holders. Roughly 45 million people are involved with the crypto.
Maybe 1% of the world population.
Big money is starting to come from Asia.
One hedge fund guy just called Bitcoin at 40,000 by the end of 2018.
Who would be surprised with an episode of The Big Bang Theory
hitting the airwaves.
Currency or not this is huge.
I’ve been buying pm’s and mining stocks since 2008. In the last year I’ve diversified into crypto and the returns have been earth shaking. I’m not selling an ounce of pm’s but it’s nice to see a good return.
——————-
It’s 1994 in crypto currency
https://www.forbes.com/sites/apaul/2017/11/27/its-1994-in-cryptocurrency/#1065f3c4b28a
 

#48Fan

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These are crazy times. I’m shaking my head at what is ahead for Bitcoin holders. Roughly 45 million people are involved with the crypto.
Maybe 1% of the world population.
Big money is starting to come from Asia.
One hedge fund guy just called Bitcoin at 40,000 by the end of 2018.
Who would be surprised with an episode of The Big Bang Theory
hitting the airwaves.
Currency or not this is huge.
I’ve been buying pm’s and mining stocks since 2008. In the last year I’ve diversified into crypto and the returns have been earth shaking. I’m not selling an ounce of pm’s but it’s nice to see a good return.
——————-
It’s 1994 in crypto currency
https://www.forbes.com/sites/apaul/2017/11/27/its-1994-in-cryptocurrency/#1065f3c4b28a

Hell to the yes!
 

solarion

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I believe the app is the TenX wallet. Not sure how else it could work. It can store several altcoins to spend. Sure, there is some red tape as they are staying 100% legal. There are fees for the use of all credit/debit cards but the business usually pays it and it's higher than 2%. And why would I even worry about that if the BTC on my TenX card increased 20% that day? Whenever you put BTC on the Bitpay card is justs swaps it to USD and it's price is no longer measured with the market, correct?

ETA: I am invested in TenX because I believe in the team, vision, and product. Part of that 2% fee will go back into rewards to the user and the token holder.
There are multiple active articles on GIM2 right now dealing with people who have been robbed by using insecure multi-wallets...they're dangerous. Please be careful.

Yes, all credit & debit cards impose a transaction fee that is paid by everyone that uses them, the TenX card tacks an addition 2% on top of that.

Don't forget that bitcoin also drops vs fiat. I'd treat a bitpay card the same way I treat purchases from PM vendors or gyft.com...that is to say I'd fill it when I thought bitcoin was about to correct vs fiat.

As to 100% legal...well let's just say the so called "laws" governing cryptos are whatever any particular so called authority says they are at any given time. If you're talking to the IRS then bitcoin is property...and if you're talking to the Fed then bitcoin is "money". The rules will be changed on the fly to be whatever benefits the so called "authority" in the future.
 

goldielox1

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Sure it can and did. By fiat simply means by decree. If gold is decreed by gov to be money again, then that in fact fits the definition of "by fiat".
Again you don't know what money is. Gold is money whether the gov says it is or not. Please go back to Gold 101.

You wonder if an inflationary feedback loop could be set up.... bitcoin convertibility becomes easier through TenX, Gyft, E-gifter and online retailers taking them directly. That drives bitcoin (and other cryptos) price up and causes an increasing amount of their market capitalization to find its way into the "real" economy chasing "real" goods and services. At some point is the effect inflationary - increasing amount of cryptos chasing goods in the "real" or "tangible" economy devaluing fiat currencies relative value down and cryptos up. I suppose $300 Billion is a drop in the bucket of $72 Trillion in world GDP but as fast as they have risen we may not be far from cryptos market cap being in the $US Trillions. Maybe Gresham's law stops that from happening but I don't think everyone on Earth is using cryptos as an investment. I think in distressed economies they are becoming an economic lifeline.
Again a non-understanding of velocity of currency/money. If btc were to be used more, it would actually decrease its value through inflation (e.g. twice as many transactions per year of a fixed supply would effectively double the amount of btc in circulation. That's Econ 101.

So during the time of the gold standard, you honestly believe that the gov did not have a law decreeing that a certain weight of gold was a certain Dollar amount of money?
No the gov tied the dollar to gold. It didn't tie gold to the dollar. Gold is money. The dollar may or may not be money. If the dollar's tied to gold via government fiat, then the dollar is money. If it isn't then it is unbacked currency with (arguably) no intrinsic value other than the value of the government's promise.
 

goldielox1

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Remember one property of money is it must be a "store of wealth". The unbacked dollar is not a store of wealth which has been proven based on the loss of 98% of its purchasing power since it lost its fettering to gold/money.
 

Joe King

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Again you don't know what money is. Gold is money whether the gov says it is or not. Please go back to Gold 101.
If the gov issues a decree declaring it so within its jurisdiction, then in that jurisdiction it is in fact money by fiat.

No the gov tied the dollar to gold. It didn't tie gold to the dollar.
That works both ways. Within the jurisdiction, said measure of gold is also worth that particular dollar amount.

If when under the gold standard, you dig that much gold out of the ground, you have that many dollars worth of gold. No more, no less. Ie: gov has already decreed the worth of that gold in dollars that you just dug up.

btw, $9984 goldie. Gettin' close. Still convinced it'll hit $100 first?
 

Flight2gold

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Again a non-understanding of velocity of currency/money. If btc were to be used more, it would actually decrease its value through inflation (e.g. twice as many transactions per year of a fixed supply would effectively double the amount of btc in circulation. That's Econ 101
Your may need to evaluate your Econ 101 lessons.
Obviously, you can't double the amount of Bitcoin.
Again, one more time, Bitcoin only has 21 million pieces.
At this time 16.7 million are in circulation. (Actually less due to loss)
As we close in on 21 million where do you think the price will go ?
----------------------------
Bitcoin 1 million is not an impossibility and yet you will still be here beating a dead horse screaming that its not a currency or something.
beating_a_dead_horse_by_pjperez.jpg
 
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Tecumseh

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Your may need to evaluate your Econ 101 lessons.
Obviously, you can't double the amount of Bitcoin.
Again, one more time, Bitcoin only has 21 million pieces.
At this time 16.7 million are in circulation. (Actually less due to loss)
As we close in on 21 million where do you think the price will go ?
----------------------------
Bitcoin 1 million is not an impossibility and yet you will still be here beating a dead horse screaming that its not a currency or something.
View attachment 95833
I don't think he understood my point which probably was not very clear. My point was as it becomes easier for bitcoins to enter the "real" or "tangible" economy and chase goods and services could it eventually have an inflationary effect on ALL currencies? As you point out, bitcoin supply is essentially limited AND its increasing ease of use might make it desirable for trade as well as a store of value which might make it somewhat immune to the inflationary effects that it has on other currencies. It would be interesting to know the velocity of the average bitcoin - are they being spent or hoarded? I (maybe foolishly) spent bitcoins this year. In hindsight I wish I had hoarded them.
 

Flight2gold

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I think I've finally figured out @goldielox1 and @Area51 displeasure with crypto's.
One of many who bought 10,000 Bitcoin in 2011 and then lost or threw away your paper wallet.
Just a measly $100,000,000 down the drain.
In 2011 on the website reddit.com, someone was trying to sell 10,000 Bitcoin for $50.
They had no takers for a long time.
woulda, coulda, shoulda

Ok, @goldielox1 and @Area51 , this post was just some holiday ribbing.
Merry Xmas to everyone.
 

solarion

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Area51

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Your may need to evaluate your Econ 101 lessons.
Obviously, you can't double the amount of Bitcoin.
Again, one more time, Bitcoin only has 21 million pieces.
At this time 16.7 million are in circulation. (Actually less due to loss)
As we close in on 21 million where do you think the price will go ?
----------------------------
Bitcoin 1 million is not an impossibility and yet you will still be here beating a dead horse screaming that its not a currency or something.
View attachment 95833

There's absolutely ZERO stopping the bitcoin braintrust from altering the programming to suddenly change the "maximum" from 21 MILLION to 21 BILLION - - or any arbitrary number in between.
 

Flight2gold

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There's absolutely ZERO stopping the bitcoin braintrust from altering the programming to suddenly change the "maximum" from 21 MILLION to 21 BILLION - - or any arbitrary number in between.
Yeah, I guess, but that would invalidate the whole premise of the Blockchain, wouldn’t it?
Let’s just stick with “what is” instead of hypotheticals.
Of course, we could always close our eyes, cover our ears with our hands and say over and over, “Cryptos don’t matter, Cryptos don’t matter”.
 

solarion

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A change to the bitcoin blockchain has to be accepted by a majority of bitcoin nodes or that new chain is rejected. What do you suppose would happen to the value of existing bitcoins if 51% of nodes voted to accept an increase in the bitcoin inflation rate? Uh, yeah it'd be rightly labeled as untrustworthy and the value would crater overnight. Bitcoin holders would be stupid to do that.

People that don't know crap about how blockchain tech works and are too lazy to read anything are constantly claiming that "some unnamed entity" can just make arbitrary changes whenever they wish...it ain't so. Why do people think there are all these initiatives to alter bitcoin to lower fees if someone can just change the algorithm on a whim? The answer should be self evident...it ain't easy to change and a majority of nodes have to accept those changes for them to become the new norm.
 

#48Fan

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There are multiple active articles on GIM2 right now dealing with people who have been robbed by using insecure multi-wallets...they're dangerous. Please be careful.

Yes, all credit & debit cards impose a transaction fee that is paid by everyone that uses them, the TenX card tacks an addition 2% on top of that.
I looked back into this as I was unsure. TenX takes their fee directly from the merchant fee as they are the issuer. So the card holder does not pay any extra fees to TenX. The user also earns a cash back reward per transaction.

I get what you are saying about the wallet issue. The company itself says to only put on your card what you are going to spend. They understand the risks as well. TenX is for payments, not storage.
 

Flight2gold

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Lets see.....300 trillion of capital moving around the world looking for a high return........
Bitcoin seems to be doing pretty good....1200% return lately.......Maybe I'll move a little that way.....
Could see a correction down to 7000 or so.....oh well, good time to buy more...
Next stop 20,000.
Yee haw.........
 

goldielox1

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Your may need to evaluate your Econ 101 lessons.
Obviously, you can't double the amount of Bitcoin.
Again, one more time, Bitcoin only has 21 million pieces.
At this time 16.7 million are in circulation. (Actually less due to loss)
As we close in on 21 million where do you think the price will go ?
----------------------------
Bitcoin 1 million is not an impossibility and yet you will still be here beating a dead horse screaming that its not a currency or something.
View attachment 95833
You obviously never took a basic economics class. Do a search for "velocity of money" before spouting off on the subject again.

I never said it's not a currency. Quit listening to the drooling stooges. Or find a quote from me. It's a sub-fiat, which is indeed a type of currency.
 

goldielox1

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There's absolutely ZERO stopping the bitcoin braintrust from altering the programming to suddenly change the "maximum" from 21 MILLION to 21 BILLION - - or any arbitrary number in between.
It's happened like 3 times this year alone to just bitcoin hasn't it? The infamous "crypto fork". The supply has tripled just this year, to what 63 billion now?
 

the_shootist

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It's happened like 3 times this year alone to just bitcoin hasn't it? The infamous "crypto fork". The supply has tripled just this year, to what 63 billion now?
Right out of thin air. Reminds me of the way the Fed creates money
 

andial

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This is crazy why doesn't bitcoin trade flat to lower like metals?!?!?!?!?!?!? I want to buy MOAR!
 

goldielox1

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No definitely not a bubble.:belly laugh::



bitbubble.jpg

You know the bitbubble actually makes tulip investors look rational. Compare the trajectory of the bitbubble with the tulip bubble :rotf::

1024px-Tulip_price_index1.svg.png
 

Joe King

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It's happened like 3 times this year alone to just bitcoin hasn't it? The infamous "crypto fork". The supply has tripled just this year, to what 63 billion now?
There's still only gonna be 21m btc. The World has always had multiple currencies. Would you be happier if there were only one?
 

Buck

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We'll alrighty then, who's cashing out?

Greed will surely take some down with it but there's no one here with THAT mentality, right?
 

Flight2gold

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What’s comical is how angry individuals get when other people are making a good return on their hard earned money.
 

Buck

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What’s comical is how angry individuals get when other people are making a good return on their hard earned money.
It does make for some compelling drama on occasion and sometimes it's just funny watching some folks poke the Pillsbury Doughboy in the belly

But wait:
How can we be certain this "money", you speak of, was "hard earned"?

LOL
JK
(poke)

:beer: