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POLL, covid 19 Worth Shutting Down $20T Economy?

Are the actions taken appropriate to the severity to date?


  • Total voters
    49

gnome

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#41
I don't believe that to be true at all,

Besides, if'n you remember, the presidency was in flux at that time with impeachment, and for the period after there was no way a pres fresh off impeachment could shut down a economy.

Come on man, that just wasn't realistic, even looking back
I didn't say shut down the economy in Jan or Feb. I said respond appropriately. Test and track. Test and track.

In early march I entered the US from asia. No one asked me a single damn question. Nobody looked at my passport.
Nobody took my temperature.
Every country in Asia has had thermal cameras in the airports for a decade now, because of SARS.
Can't get on an airplane in Korea without someone taking your temperature. It's just pure stupidity that we are in this mess.

We know it was avoidable because countries with far more traffic from China than us succeeded in shutting it down with far less extreme measures than we are using now.
 

Scorpio

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#42
I see, so you think that is appropriate.
I get that, but do you really think taking your temp when you arrived here was going to slow the roll of this thing?

That it doesn't have anything to do with diet, with societal norms, etc?

That this pres, with all he has been thru even had the capacity to call for such actions?

They could have asked you questions, then taken your temp, come up neg, then what? You are here, and so is the bug. You may have been a carrier.

To me, you are not viewing this clearly.

then we have this very difficult question for all,

what price is your freedom?

with me, I would answer that the price is too high to what is lost.

I would argue you are over reacting to the propaganda being unleashed on everyone. That this thing is not near as bad as portrayed, and even that the tests themselves were flawed, maybe even still are flawed.
 

Oldmansmith

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#43
They should have stopped all air traffic in early January. They knew what would happen, they even ran a drill last year called Crimson Contagion in which a virus spreads to the US from China. So what do they do? Nothing, then once it is already spread everywhere we are on lockdown.
 

Inigma

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#45
My more paranoid personality is suggesting that someone found merit in the plan
 

Strawboss

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#47
To Scorp's earlier point about putting this in context. Back in January - it was impeachment 24/7...
Yeah - most of us were already aware of it back then and taking precautions.

It became real to me when China shut down Hubei province - and then others. There were discussions whether this virus was a fake contrivance or not...and in my mind - China thought it was real. What do they know?

So then - fresh on the heels of the impeachment - this virus spreads. The WHO drags its feet on calling it a pandemic...and we later find out that the WHO director has ties to the Clinton Foundation (she got him his position). Why did the WHO drag its feet? Perhaps to give the virus sufficient time to spread?

Trump said yesterday in his daily briefing that he cherished the Constitution and the issue of whether to shut down is up to the states. As it should be. So far - like 90% or something of the states have shut down. Trump is correct in saying the role of the fed .gov is to support the states - not be their sugar daddy (I am of course paraphrasing).

Its a no-win situation. If you dont shut down - the spread would be incredibly fast and the hospitals would be overrun - which would significantly increase the rate of death. If you do shut down - you blow out the financial system and disintegrate global supply chains.

Lets assume for a moment that everything was left open...business as usual as the virus does its thing. We would have many hotspots all over - and those hospitals would be quickly overrun. It would be all the MSM was talking about. People would quit going to work which would shut everything down anyways. Women would of course be in panic mode - hysterical - and the MSM would have a field day with it.

My point being - either path leads to the same end result - the economic engine shuts down.

Isnt it interesting that Bill Gates is promoting a digital certificate to validate that you have already had the virus and are thus "safe" to interact with.

Mark of the Beast coming in 3...2...1?

I dunno.

Crazy times my friends...I pray that God keeps all of you and your loved ones safe.
 

the_shootist

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#48
To Scorp's earlier point about putting this in context. Back in January - it was impeachment 24/7...
Yeah - most of us were already aware of it back then and taking precautions.

It became real to me when China shut down Hubei province - and then others. There were discussions whether this virus was a fake contrivance or not...and in my mind - China thought it was real. What do they know?

So then - fresh on the heels of the impeachment - this virus spreads. The WHO drags its feet on calling it a pandemic...and we later find out that the WHO director has ties to the Clinton Foundation (she got him his position). Why did the WHO drag its feet? Perhaps to give the virus sufficient time to spread?

Trump said yesterday in his daily briefing that he cherished the Constitution and the issue of whether to shut down is up to the states. As it should be. So far - like 90% or something of the states have shut down. Trump is correct in saying the role of the fed .gov is to support the states - not be their sugar daddy (I am of course paraphrasing).

Its a no-win situation. If you dont shut down - the spread would be incredibly fast and the hospitals would be overrun - which would significantly increase the rate of death. If you do shut down - you blow out the financial system and disintegrate global supply chains.

Lets assume for a moment that everything was left open...business as usual as the virus does its thing. We would have many hotspots all over - and those hospitals would be quickly overrun. It would be all the MSM was talking about. People would quit going to work which would shut everything down anyways. Women would of course be in panic mode - hysterical - and the MSM would have a field day with it.

My point being - either path leads to the same end result - the economic engine shuts down.

Isnt it interesting that Bill Gates is promoting a digital certificate to validate that you have already had the virus and are thus "safe" to interact with.

Mark of the Beast coming in 3...2...1?

I dunno.

Crazy times my friends...I pray that God keeps all of you and your loved ones safe.
We'll see my friend, we'll see
 

anywoundedduck

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#49
Just a few months ago, a Harvard Professor was arrested when caught trying to smuggle vials of biological agent called Corona Virus to China.
Then it was discovered he was receiving Federal funds as well as millions from the Chinese in his to attempt to concoct biological weapons in his laboratory at Harvard, it is said he was funded millions to set up the biological Lab in Wuhan China, some money's coming from George Soros.
His name, Charles Lieber head of chemistry lab at Harvard.
Has the administrators, including the President of Harvard and his administration been held responsible for this shit?
You hear nothing on the news about this. This is the culprit responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of people.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harv...ationals-charged-three-separate-china-related
Wake the fuck up people.
 

Scorpio

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#50
Its a no-win situation. If you dont shut down - the spread would be incredibly fast and the hospitals would be overrun - which would significantly increase the rate of death. If you do shut down - you blow out the financial system and disintegrate global supply chains.
darn it, you were doing so good until you got here, then after this comment,

but with this comment it is all speculation on spread and the like. Even in its current context it is not a big factor at all. That is only buying into the media narrative. It still has not reached large numbers worldwide, no matter what the media states.

for you to say the economy would be shut down anyway is in error IMO. Big time in error. The overall size of this is a minor event. It just doesn't measure up.

but of course that is IMO
 

Rusty Shackelford

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#51
So - it looks like I am the lone dissenter so far...

Gulp...

My rationale is simply the fact that based on OUTCOMES...(deaths plus recovered)/deaths...

This thing is killing 20% of those that test positive...and the percentage is still growing.

Now - numbers may not accurately reflect the number of people infected, etc...etc... I get it.

I can only work with observable data - and that data says that if you test positive...you have a 1 in 5 chance of dying.

Is that worth having people stay at home?

Yeah - because until we get a medicine that can change those odds...or a vaccine...that is a game changer.

1 in 5...

Would you bet your life on an 80% chance of survival?
Your math is way off.....65,000 deaths/1,200,000 confirmed cases is 5% world wide.....USA is 8,500 deaths/310,000 confirmed cases is about 2.7%
 

the_shootist

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#52
Your math is way off.....65,000 deaths/1,200,000 confirmed cases is 5% world wide.....USA is 8,500 deaths/310,000 confirmed cases is about 2.7%
Are we sure all 8500 deaths were due to the beer virus? 310,000 confirmed cases? Confirmed by who? How?

The devil is always in the details!
 

Rusty Shackelford

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#54
Are we sure all 8500 deaths were due to the beer virus? 310,000 confirmed cases? Confirmed by who? How?

The devil is always in the details!
True ...but my point was correcting his claim of a 20% death rate of infected people.
 

the_shootist

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#55
True ...but my point was correcting his claim of a 20% death rate of infected people.
Understood! My post was more of a general statement, not aimed at you or your point in any way
 

BackwardsEngineeer

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#56
Data, Data, Data

This is my reference: https://www.usatoday.com/story/weat...ng-deaths-all-time-record-low-2017/996949001/

So here is the deal 16 people died here in the USA from getting struck by lightning in 2017, didn't verify this data it really doesn't matter to make my point. Now 250 some died being struck in the 1940's so they had a campaign in 2001 to tell people to come in out of the rain. So the stats seem to indicate in the 1940's you had a one 1/330k chance of getting struck after a .gov program you now have a 1/20mil chance. Some would say that .gov did us tremendous favor increasing our chance of survival. It also says 80% of those struck are male. so lightning clearly is god's attempt to eliminate males...

So data would say we have obliterated the lightning bug, minimizing the great blight on humanity. Me, I think that if you have tell people to come in out of the rain humanity didn't need them expanding the gene pool. In any event 1/330k or 1/20mil if you are the 1 your just as dead...
 

Rusty Shackelford

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#57
Same situation in the hospital my wifey works at.
Crappy thing is they have shut wards down for non life threatening care and sent those staff home.... but not laid off...thus not eligible for unemployment...there are on call for work at any other company owned hospital in the state...with no travel,meal,housing allowances even when facilities that could call are 3.5 hours away....ironically none of here nurse friends that are in this situation have been called in to work at other facilities because they are also patient light.
 

the_shootist

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#58
Crappy thing is they have shut wards down for non life threatening care and sent those staff home.... but not laid off...thus not eligible for unemployment...there are on call for work at any other company owned hospital in the state...with no travel,meal,housing allowances even when facilities that could call are 3.5 hours away....ironically none of here nurse friends that are in this situation have been called in to work at other facilities because they are also patient light.
You wouldn't know it by what the media is parroting about hospitals being overwhelmed! Someone is lying and I don't think its you or the wife
 

Lt Dan

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#59
You wouldn't know it by what the media is parroting about hospitals being overwhelmed! Someone is lying and I don't think its you or the wife
I know at least one man who worked at the local hospital, the one I worked at before, I'm now retired, He was laid off. However, his daughter and son-in-law are both nurse practitioners there. His S-I-L had to treat a man that had a stroke who tested + for the beer thing. So, ya, it's here and real.

My guess is, if I still worked there, I'd know more, but my job was essential, so guessing secure as the hospital itself.

However, the local VA hospital seemed almost vacant of outpatients last time I was there, even the parking lots didn't have many cars compared to what it had been before all the social separations.
 

the_shootist

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#60
I know at least one man who worked at the local hospital, the one I worked at before, I'm now retired, He was laid off. However, his daughter and son-in-law are both nurse practitioners there. His S-I-L had to treat a man that had a stroke who tested + for the beer thing. So, ya, it's here and real.

My guess is, if I still worked there, I'd know more, but my job was essential, so guessing secure as the hospital itself.

However, the local VA hospital seemed almost vacant of outpatients last time I was there, even the parking lots didn't have many cars compared to what it had been before all the social separations.
For all we know that test could look for corona type anti bodies and anyone who ever had a cold could test positive. We simply don't know any more than we're being told. Neither do most of the good medical people. They receive most of their info through information sources they depend on and trust as accurate, but are they? We simply don't know any more.

FYI, my daughter is also an NP at a local hospital and she's telling me she's been told to just lay low so she doesn't get furloughed. She works a 4 day week and she's been doing very little. There simply doesn't seem to be the panic and intense activity in the hospitals that the media would make you believe.
 

Strawboss

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#61
As it relates to hospitals in general...

1. Because of the quarantine- far fewer car crashes, bar fights, etc...
2. Elective surgeries have been shelved.
3. Telemedicine for much of the chronic stuff - HBP, diabetes, etc...

Ironically - there are many people alive today that otherwise wouldnt be...car crash victims being one example.
 

anywoundedduck

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#62
Statistics always has a small degree of bias by the author/statistician depending on his/her desired outcome.

I just have the feeling that many auto accident victims, stroke, heart attacks, tripping over a barbwire fence, etc are being counted as victims of COVID19. The Left are going all out to ruin this country, or you could really say the 1 %, the Puppeteers of leftwingers,are truly our enemy. Mankind's enemy.i
 

Joe King

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#63
For all we know that test could look for corona type anti bodies and anyone who ever had a cold could test positive.
If that were the case, no one would ever test negative, and lots of people have tested negative.
 

hammerhead

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#64
As it relates to hospitals in general...

1. Because of the quarantine- far fewer car crashes, bar fights, etc...
2. Elective surgeries have been shelved.
3. Telemedicine for much of the chronic stuff - HBP, diabetes, etc...

Ironically - there are many people alive today that otherwise would'nt be...car crash victims being one example.
And a lot less people going to the ER because they got a boo-boo. Which is what the ER is supposed to be. for emergency's only but thanks to not being able to turn people away they had become doctors offices with less of a wait in most cases.
 

the_shootist

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#65
If that were the case, no one would ever test negative, and lots of people have tested negative.
There have been CV tests test kits which have already been proven to be wildly inaccurate. One would expect that they got them all right now to have any real confidence in their current accuracy. I don't have that confidence level at all.

Hey, I'm not trying to be difficult here, I'm really not. I'm just saying I don't trust anything I"m being told any more. So much has been proven to be lies and inaccurate numbers the past couple of years that I simply don't trust what I'm being told.

YMMV
 

Joe King

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#66
There have been CV tests test kits which have already been proven to be wildly inaccurate. One would expect that they got them all right now to have any real confidence in their current accuracy. I don't have that confidence level at all.
Supposedly they got that fixed now, but yea, you and I have no way to verify that.
...but it is also impossible for you or I to personally verify a lot of stuff, but it doesn't automaticly prove that none of it is true. Take that thinking far enough and a person will end up not being able to tell if the Earth is flat or round. Lol


Hey, I'm not trying to be difficult here, I'm really not. I'm just saying I don't trust anything I"m being told any more.
No, you're not trying to be difficult, just trying to find a way, any way, that the official line is wrong.


So much has been proven to be lies and inaccurate numbers the past couple of years that I simply don't trust what I'm being told.
Don't let your cynicism blind you. As soon as one declares that nothing is real, it automaticly makes them be wrong about some things because in no wsy is everything fake. Some things may be, but not everything.
 

the_shootist

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#67
Supposedly they got that fixed now, but yea, you and I have no way to verify that.
...but it is also impossible for you or I to personally verify a lot of stuff, but it doesn't automaticly prove that none of it is true. Take that thinking far enough and a person will end up not being able to tell if the Earth is flat or round. Lol



No, you're not trying to be difficult, just trying to find a way, any way, that the official line is wrong.



Don't let your cynicism blind you. As soon as one declares that nothing is real, it automaticly makes them be wrong about some things because in no wsy is everything fake. Some things may be, but not everything.
Not believing and not trusting are two different things. Lack of trust can be verified. I don't believe the CDC because they've lied to us before. Once a liar always a liar in my mind. If what they say can be verified then I'd be a fool thereafter not to believe it.

Verification is tough these days so I don't believe straight away much of what I see and hear coming out of these agencies and organizations unless and until I'm convinced they can be, and have been, verified.

If that makes me difficult then so be it! It's the way I see the world today.

No, you're not trying to be difficult, just trying to find a way, any way, that the official line is wrong.
I don't need to find a way, the track record over time speaks for itself
 

Thecrensh

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#68
quarantine everyone over 60 or who are medically susceptible, allow voluntary quarantine for everyone else with no threat of job loss and boom.
 

Rusty Shackelford

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#69
Crappy thing is they have shut wards down for non life threatening care and sent those staff home.... but not laid off...thus not eligible for unemployment...there are on call for work at any other company owned hospital in the state...with no travel,meal,housing allowances even when facilities that could call are 3.5 hours away....ironically none of here nurse friends that are in this situation have been called in to work at other facilities because they are also patient light.
And here I was thinking I was making crap up...

https://news.yahoo.com/during-pandemic-unanticipated-problem-health-150355070.html
 

Goldhedge

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#70
Here is the control...

Prepare for the mother of all s**t storms if Sweden pulls this off
If Sweden, which has not locked down its economy and society, emerges with a death toll from COVID-19 that is somewhere in the middle of the pack of European countries, there is going to be a lot of recrimination, particularly against those who have tried to silence any discussion about the true extent of the threat that COVID-19 actually poses


Cheers, say the Swedes

the commentator
On 3 April 2020 08:36

In a word: Sweden. What happens if they pull this off? What happens if it turns out that we could have coped with COVID-19 without collapsing entire sectors of the economy putting millions on the dole, and imposing some of the most draconian restrictions on civil liberties in living memory?

Sweden has not closed the bars. Shopping malls are open. Schools and companies are open too. There are some restrictions such as on gatherings of over 50 people. But, in comparison with most European countries, life in Sweden is relatively normal.

Right now, Sweden's death rate from coronavirus is 33 per million of the population. In France it is 83. In Italy it is 230. In Britain it is 43. In the Netherlands it is 78.

In the United States the number of deaths per million of the population is 18, but many argue that the outbreak in America took off later, and European levels of fatality from the virus are on their way. We shall see.

But, in any case, which levels of European fatality? The figures are all over the place. Partly this must be due to different ways in which the death toll is being counted.

In some countries, COVID-19 is being listed as the cause of death merely if it appears somewhere on the death certificate. In other words, you may have been days away from dying from terminal lung cancer, but if you had contracted COVID-19 in the meantime, your death will be listed in the overall COVID-19 fatality numbers. In other countries, it has to have been the single most obvious cause of death to make it into the same statistics.

Sweden appears to be in the latter category, which may be making their numbers look a little lower than in countries which list things differently. But probably not enough to radically change the comparisons.

That will all be looked at closely when all this is over.

But if, when all such necessary adjustments have been made, Sweden emerges with a death toll from COVID-19 that is somewhere in the middle of the pack of European countries, there is going to be a lot of recrimination, particularly against those who have tried to silence any discussion about the extent of the threat that COVID-19 actually poses.

What is interesting though, is that precisely because it is Sweden, the usual suspects in our politics who benefit from disillusionment with the establishment may find it hard to profit from this. The Swedish government is led by Stefan Loeven, a Social Democrat.

Sweden is practically a role model for mainstream, left of centre politics. If you're a European populist, it's going to be more than a little incongruous to start singing the praises of Sweden, of all countries.

Similarly in America. Donald Trump has, albeit reluctantly, broadly followed the lockdown policies we see across most of Europe. Unless he very quickly does a 180 degree turn (and don't rule that out) how can he profit from his usual disdain for the way things are done by the establishment?

That said, if this particular "Swedish model" wins the day, someone is going to get it in the neck. The question is, who?
 

tigerwillow1

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#71
I have a family member who can't get a needed surgery. If the delay results in his death, that will be a coronavirus death recorded as something else.
 

Uglytruth

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#72
Sure starting to have the aroma of a 3 day old dead fish..........

You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.
Rahm Emanuel

Even if they created the "crisis" with fake news.

The Cloward–Piven strategy is a political strategy outlined in 1966 by American sociologists and political activists Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven that called for overloading the U.S. public welfare system in order to precipitate a crisis that would lead to a replacement of the welfare system with "a guaranteed annual income and thus an end to poverty".[1]

Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person or a group covertly sows seeds of doubt in a targeted individual, making them question their own memory, perception, or judgment, often evoking in them cognitive dissonance and other changes such as low self-esteem. Using denial, misdirection, contradiction, and misinformation, gaslighting involves attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim's beliefs. Instances can range from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents occurred to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.
 

Rusty Shackelford

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#73
Question.

Whether you buy into it or not, it is being promoted that left leaning metro areas are being crushed by this event. Does this make metro citizens reevaluate their choice of residence going forward and thus have enough relocate to red states to sway elections? Liberals dont leave their thought process at the state lines when they up a leave for a red state.
 

shallow_explorer

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#74
What a joke. All those Covid-19 deaths are just renamed expected pneumonia deaths. This has got the propellors on my tin foil hat spinning.
87EE99ED-7593-4253-A5F5-027647163A85.png
 

Uncle

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#75
Quite frankly, I don't see the issue.

If you feel bad, like you have flu, get a script for hydroxychloroqine and zinc, if not, get back to work.

But somehow, back in the shadows, how to resolve the recent margin calls, big or small. There are more than 1 000 trillion $US looking to land or takeoff.

And there is the issue.

Golden Regards
Uncle
 

Inigma

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#76
Just a few months ago, a Harvard Professor was arrested when caught trying to smuggle vials of biological agent called Corona Virus to China.
Then it was discovered he was receiving Federal funds as well as millions from the Chinese in his to attempt to concoct biological weapons in his laboratory at Harvard, it is said he was funded millions to set up the biological Lab in Wuhan China, some money's coming from George Soros.
His name, Charles Lieber head of chemistry lab at Harvard.
Has the administrators, including the President of Harvard and his administration been held responsible for this shit?
You hear nothing on the news about this. This is the culprit responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of people.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harv...ationals-charged-three-separate-china-related
Wake the fuck up people.
The Dep. of Justice article did not reveal what the stolen biological specimens had been.
 

WillA2

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#78
I have spoken to a couple of different folks who work in one of the local hospitals. They have bought into the panic. I think the reason for them buying into the panic goes like this: The hospitals have changed many of their protocols for handling patients. COVID-19 protocols, if you will. The new protocols are in place. They had to receive a bit of training on the protocols, otherwise, they have kept doing their jobs. But because the protocols changed, the panic is real to them. It changed how they did their work. It's far more contagious, they are told so the new protocols are needed. Perhaps they are, but they have not seen any surge in their work loads. They have been working the same shifts they normally work.

Virus is real. Panic is manufactured.

Folks with power are taking advantage of the induced panic for good or ill. My hope, is that the President and his allies are flipping the tables on the demons that let this manufactured bug out.
 

Inigma

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#79
Changing protocols frequently induces a sense of heightened anxiety. Keeps those that have difficulty in managing it from focusing on the inconsistencies in the story.. Any vet's here?