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Proof electric vehicle tech not viable

stAGgering

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EV truck is bought for nothing more than an owners self justification.
Same as they drive to get a coffee, where the cups are recyclable.
Complete farce the flatlanders to consume.
Test should have been done in Colorado during winter.
EV are like C-19 vaccines and boosters.
Believe, and pay for your belief.
 

chieftain

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Until an EV can achieve a range of 700 miles on a single charge AND be able to recharge in 10 minutes (or battery swap) AND the batteries don't cost the literal earth to manufacture and repurpose/recycle, they won't be anything more than virtue signaling devices.

That's saying nothing of the grid side of the equation...
 

DodgebyDave

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My 1994 ram 2500 gas engine 35 gallon tank will do 400 miles with a car on the trailer and the bed full of support.

loL.......the recharging sorcery!
 

DodgebyDave

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x2LtMjW.png
 

Uglytruth

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So are you goign to eat every hour and a half while waiting for a charge?
 

Buck

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when we can't travel, we can't congregate

independent travel is key to our freedoms and we're about ten years away from losing it
 

stAGgering

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when we can't travel, we can't congregate

independent travel is key to our freedoms and we're about ten years away from losing it

That is a westernized misconception, as humans travel in a multitude of forms, many by human body power.
The exact opposite would occur.
When western people can not travel at high speed and high energy consumption.
People will congregate more so.
Turn back time and see where history was 130 years ago in regards to travel and congregation.
Or take a trip to 3rd world rural, and see natives traveling same as 500 years ago.
With approaching die off, those remaining will congregate like maggots on a dead raccoon in August.
Modern travel divides and conquers by promoting singularity.
Not 150 years ago with sail, wagon, horse, foot, canoe, and some rail.
Not 150 years ago when if you did not bring supplies, you were not going far, or just suicidal.
 

newmisty

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gnome

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Until an EV can achieve a range of 700 miles on a single charge AND be able to recharge in 10 minutes (or battery swap) AND the batteries don't cost the literal earth to manufacture and repurpose/recycle, they won't be anything more than virtue signaling devices.

That's saying nothing of the grid side of the equation...
CATL is almost there with 620 mile range, charge from 10%-80% in 10 minutes.
Of course, that's not with a pickup and RV in tow. And cost is not mentioned.
The trend is towards cheaper, more energy dense, longer lasting and safer batteries at a fairly rapid rate.

EV batteries are 95%+ recyclable at a profit according to Redwood Materials.

China’s CATL Announces 1,000-Km / 620-Mile CTP 3.0 EV Battery​

The company says its energy density is 255 Wh/kg and that it will debut in 2023.​

CATL new battery cell plant in Thuringia, Germany


Jun 24, 2022 at 5:12am ET
36
By: Andrei Nedelea


China’s Contemporary Amperex Technology Company Limited (or CATL for short), the world’s biggest EV battery manufacturer, has just announced a technology breakthrough that bumps up the energy density of the cells it produces. They call this new battery Qilin, the name of a creature straight out of the Chinese legend books, and it’s not only more energy dense, but it also chargers quicker and they say it’s also safer and longer lasting.

They have now managed to bring its energy density up to 255 Wh/kg. Charging times have dropped too, with CATL noting that with this new tech, charging from 10 to 80 percent will be possible in about 10 minutes, or as low as 5 minutes with a ‘hot start’ which we presume means preconditioning the battery beforehand.
external_image
CATL supplies batteries to many major automakers, including Volkswagen, BMW, Nioand, of course, Tesla. However, in order to keep its global lead, it needs to increase the rate of innovation as rival battery makers are also making notable advances. So far in 2022, its Q1 results are 24 percent down compared to 2021, so a lot is riding on the new Qilin battery.
The company claims that with this new battery tech, it will be able to give EVs 1,000 km / 620 miles of range on one charge, which is 13 percent more than the new Tesla 4680 cells that just started being used in the Model Y manufactured at the new Texas Gigafactory.
external_image
It’s worth noting that CATL’s rivals BYD say they will begin supplying Tesla with batteries very soon, possibly further threatening the future of CATL’s supply deal with the American EV manufacturer. BYD’s lithium-iron-phosphate (LPF) battery revealed in 2020 is said to be considerably safer than other alternative chemistries, particularly when it comes to the nail penetration test which often results in smoke coming out of the pack.
CATL says it expects to launch the Qilin battery, also known as CTP 3.0, sometime next year.
 

DodgebyDave

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Chung King can claim all of the shit they want to but the bottom line is that electrics CAN'T back up the claims.

260 miles dwindled down to 120 really quickly.

Around here we don't ride a few miles back and forth to a cubicle farm. We do work.

Hard work that sissy electrics can't perform
 

Rollie Free

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It is absolute pie in the sky bs right now. How is the power grid going to handle it? The answer is, it won't. Some estimates go as high as $5,800 PER VEHICLE to finance grid improvements.
 

Rollie Free

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Chung King can claim all of the shit they want to but the bottom line is that electrics CAN'T back up the claims.

260 miles dwindled down to 120 really quickly.

Around here we don't ride a few miles back and forth to a cubicle farm. We do work.

Hard work that sissy electrics can't perform
I wish I had a kilowatt for every time I hear they are 'almost there'.

It's the same with solar and wind. A lot of hot air. When you build a better mousetrap we'll knock down your door. Promising to build a better mousetrap and then trying to destroy the mousetrap I already have raises suspicion and mistrust. Well directed considering the thieves and liars in play.
 

gnome

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Chung King can claim all of the shit they want to but the bottom line is that electrics CAN'T back up the claims.

260 miles dwindled down to 120 really quickly.

Around here we don't ride a few miles back and forth to a cubicle farm. We do work.

Hard work that sissy electrics can't perform
guy had a ground floor opportunity to invest in Ford
The banker took him to a window. “Look,” he said pointing to the street. “You see all those people on their bicycles riding along the boulevard? There is not as many as there was a year ago. The novelty is wearing off; they are losing interest. That’s just the way it will be with automobiles. People will get the fever; and later they will throw them away. My advice is not to buy the stock. You might make money for a year or two, but in the end you would lose everything you put in. The horse is here to stay, but the automobile is only a novelty — a fad.”
 

newmisty

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CATL is almost there with 620 mile rcange, charge from 10%-80% in 10 minutes.
According to the excited manufacture's provided data....extrapolated through
hypothetical circumstances that only existed in complex algorithms on a virtual R&D program spearheaded by the marketing department
 

Uglytruth

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Around here we don't ride a few miles back and forth to a cubicle farm. We do work.

Hard work that sissy electrics can't perform
Between hot / cold weather, ac / heat, commuter / work. All transportation needs are not equal. Dodge Dave is right. While it may work for some the limitations won't work for others.

The video of pulling a trailer or boat means you own something. Maybe we will be renting a trailer & going camping in a cabin or renting a boat or not going at all.

The high gas prices are pushing people one direction but reality is pushing back. This is just another form of lockdown.

Bottom line is EV's are not ready for the majority. But the ds goal is to only have city people where public transportation is available with trains, busses, taxi's ubers etc....... but it won't matter as existance will be so miserable and prices so high your 500K a year average job won't pay for the basics and your digital currency won't let you buy anything not approved anyhow. Think miserable serf existence not prosperity.
 

Uglytruth

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So how much do they have to charge to make a profit?


1656932877931.png
 

viking

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Advancement in energy storage is key. Right now, solar panels are relatively cheap. If that energy can be stored at a reasonable price, then small EVs that charge while the owner is not using it (like sleeping) make economical sense for a daily commuter. For most people residential Solar doesn’t have a ROI for a long time. However, in places with high electricity rates (like California) the payoff happens fairly quickly.

IMO, the real solution is small nuke plants (a couple hundred?) placed around the nation close to end users, if we want cheap and abundant energy.
 
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Rollie Free

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And another thing that chaps me.

They like saying zero emission vehicles. Liars. Transferring the emissions elsewhere for the purpose of its functionality is not zero emissions.
In that sense, my vehicle is 99+% zero emissions because of the entire surface of my car, exhaust only expels out of a 3 inch diameter area.

Its a fricken miracle.
 

Voodoo

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There are SO many vastly superior technologies (that have mostly been hidden). If they really wanted to unleash the public. EV's are the opposite though, they are there to control and reduce the public mobility.
 

DodgebyDave

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Never say never. I agree. Someday electrics might knock king gasoline off the top.

But not today.

Gas/Diesel electrics make more sense anyway.
 

Goldhedge

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Believe, and pay for your belief.
Just don't use the heater.

If you've seen videos of Ukrainian towns and the simple life people living there have... that's what they want for the US.
 

Buck

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That is a westernized misconception, as humans travel in a multitude of forms, many by human body power.
The exact opposite would occur.
When western people can not travel at high speed and high energy consumption.
People will congregate more so.
Turn back time and see where history was 130 years ago in regards to travel and congregation.
Or take a trip to 3rd world rural, and see natives traveling same as 500 years ago.
With approaching die off, those remaining will congregate like maggots on a dead raccoon in August.
Modern travel divides and conquers by promoting singularity.
Not 150 years ago with sail, wagon, horse, foot, canoe, and some rail.
Not 150 years ago when if you did not bring supplies, you were not going far, or just suicidal.
the purpose for 'travel' would be to get closer to those who are creating all the chaos in order to make them 'feel uncomfortable'

that's generally NOT going to be your neighbors and if we can't 'reach out to touch someone' then we're as good as done as a collective society

and they're not going to just let us all 'hang out' together in our small enclaves, no

they're going to board their own personal conveyance to travel out to see us to let us know what our new Tax Rates are going to be


well, they'll not travel to see us, they're going to send in their security detail to tell us all about these New Changes
 

Goldbrix

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Turn back time and see where history was 130 years ago in regards to travel and congregation.
Or take a trip to 3rd world rural, and see natives traveling same as 500 years ago.
With approaching die off, those remaining will congregate like maggots on a dead raccoon in August.
130 yrs ago and third world countries the masses were and are located in urban centers, Controlled Urban Centers.
 

TAEZZAR

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According to the excited manufacture's provided data....extrapolated through
hypothetical circumstances that only existed in complex algorithms on a virtual R&D program spearheaded by the marketing department
There it is - and don't you forget it !:2 thumbs up::finished::finished::finished:
 

Buck

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EV batteries are 95%+ recyclable at a profit
and so is plastic yet we see so much of it floating around in the Pacific


...

let's say: i build a large square-foot building with the purpose of recycling these battery packs, and it's located in Nevada

now, how do i get those battery packs here, from the east coast?

what is the average weight of one of those 'packs'? about 1,000 pounds, about one half of a ton of dead weight


what's the cost to ship a half ton of lithium batteries? what type of placard will be required? will the trucks have to follow a hazardous materials route to find me and my factory?

that's only half the trip, once we're done fixing the batteries, all that material has to be trucked back out to any other facility they'll need to go to


yeah, that's not efficient and since there is only talk about recycling, i have to weigh the options of lies or more lies
 

Uglytruth

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and so is plastic yet we see so much of it floating around in the Pacific


...

let's say: i build a large square-foot building with the purpose of recycling these battery packs, and it's located in Nevada

now, how do i get those battery packs here, from the east coast?

what is the average weight of one of those 'packs'? about 1,000 pounds, about one half of a ton of dead weight


what's the cost to ship a half ton of lithium batteries? what type of placard will be required? will the trucks have to follow a hazardous materials route to find me and my factory?

that's only half the trip, once we're done fixing the batteries, all that material has to be trucked back out to any other facility they'll need to go to


yeah, that's not efficient and since there is only talk about recycling, i have to weigh the options of lies or more lies
Buck Your very coherent today. Did you quit drinking? :winks2:
 

Buck

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Buck Your very coherent today. Did you quit drinking? :winks2:
snicker, no...maybe it's someting in my coffee

idk

but i just found the motivation to begin searching for my new battery-recycling plant, probably put it in somewhere near Tonopah

:green tea:
 

gnome

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and so is plastic yet we see so much of it floating around in the Pacific


...

let's say: i build a large square-foot building with the purpose of recycling these battery packs, and it's located in Nevada

now, how do i get those battery packs here, from the east coast?

what is the average weight of one of those 'packs'? about 1,000 pounds, about one half of a ton of dead weight


what's the cost to ship a half ton of lithium batteries? what type of placard will be required? will the trucks have to follow a hazardous materials route to find me and my factory?

that's only half the trip, once we're done fixing the batteries, all that material has to be trucked back out to any other facility they'll need to go to


yeah, that's not efficient and since there is only talk about recycling, i have to weigh the options of lies or more lies
Plastic isn't worth $80,000 per ton.
Shipping domestically & recycling batteries is a heck of a lot cheaper than mining, refining, manufacturing and then shipping from China, Australia or Bolivia.

https://electrek.co/2022/05/09/tesla-increase-battery-recycling-capacity-battery-packs/
In Tesla’s 2021 Impact Report, it has released an update on its battery recycling effort. In 2021, Tesla increased its battery material recycling to 1,500 tons of nickel, 300 tons of copper, and 200 tons of cobalt.

Interestingly, copper recovery went down, but cobalt recovery went up significantly. At the current price of $80,000 per ton for cobalt, Tesla has recovered the equivalent of $16 million worth of cobalt last year.

With the recent surge in nickel prices, the nickel recovered by Tesla last year is worth more than $45 million now.

Tesla also confirmed that it significantly increased its recycling capacity with a production rate of over 50 tons of recycled material per week at the end of 2021. While the automaker has increased the capacity, it says that it is still receiving a only small number of battery packs to recycle from consumers’ vehicles. Interestingly, Tesla noted that most packs that it has recycled come from vehicles that have been used as taxis or for taxi-like services:
 

TAEZZAR

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snicker, no...maybe it's someting in my coffee

idk

but i just found the motivation to begin searching for my new battery-recycling plant, probably put it in somewhere near Tonopah

:green tea:
TONOPAH !!!! That place hasn't grown since the 1960's !:2 thumbs up::belly laugh::belly laugh::belly laugh::belly laugh:
 

Buck

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Plastic isn't worth $80,000 per ton.
Shipping domestically & recycling batteries is a heck of a lot cheaper than mining, refining, manufacturing and then shipping from China, Australia or Bolivia.

https://electrek.co/2022/05/09/tesla-increase-battery-recycling-capacity-battery-packs/
but, at the end of the day, recycling a product the world doesn't have enough of, to satisfy our future needs while we build a future on this very same product...

that leaves us about half-nut iyam

at any price, it's like looking for that fountain of yout


and since i mention it, it's actually a business model that has a zero chance of scaling and of sustaining itself since there isn't enough lithium to satisfy the New World Order's requirements in the first place
 

Ash_Williams

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The thing with EVs is that small communities, families, and even resourceful individuals can find ways to generate electricity in the absence of a functioning global economy.
Refining gasoline is not so easy. If the pumps run dry then 9/10 vehicles currently on the road are useless. A gasoline truck without gasoline is less useful than a golf cart.
Diesel might be doable for large families and communities.
 

gnome

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but, at the end of the day, recycling a product the world doesn't have enough of, to satisfy our future needs while we build a future on this very same product...
Absolutely right. Recycling won't really come into play at massive scale until a decade from now.

that leaves us about half-nut iyam

at any price, it's like looking for that fountain of yout


and since i mention it, it's actually a business model that has a zero chance of scaling and of sustaining itself since there isn't enough lithium to satisfy the New World Order's requirements in the first place
The problem is not a scarcity of extractable lithium - there's plenty. The problem is a lack of mining, refining and manufacturing capacity to keep up with demand. It can take a decade to bring a new mine online, especially with all the environmental rules and permits.

Lithium extraction and refining needs to 10x in about 8 years to meet the planned capacity that battery & auto manufacturers have already committed to for 2030. Huge gap between supply and demand. Do the math.
 

DodgebyDave

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Now there is a thought. The entire town peddling their collectivists assets off for the next week and a half to charge up the unicorn fart fantasy-mobile enough to run for an hour........
 

TAEZZAR

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Toyota is the leader, by far.


YOU CAN IGNORE REALITY, BUT YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE CONSEQUENCES OF IGNORING REALITY!



A very interesting article......For everyone.


BY BRYAN PRESTON MAR 19, 2021 12:50 PM ET

Depending on how and when you count, Japan’s Toyota is the world’s largest automaker. According to Wheels, Toyota and Volkswagen vie for the title of the world’s largest, with each taking the crown from the other as the market moves. That’s including Volkswagen’s inherent advantage of sporting 12 brands versus Toyota’s four. Audi, Lamborghini, Porsche, Bugatti, and Bentley are included in the Volkswagen brand family.

GM, America’s largest automaker, is about half Toyota’s size thanks to its 2009 bankruptcy and restructuring. Toyota is actually a major car manufacturer in the United States; in 2016 it made about 81% of the cars it sold in the U.S. right here in its nearly half a dozen American plants. If you’re driving a Tundra, RAV4, Camry, or Corolla it was probably American-made in a red state. Toyota was among the first to introduce gas-electric hybrid cars into the market, with the Prius twenty years ago. It hasn’t been afraid to change the car game.

All of this is to point out that Toyota understands both the car market and the infrastructure that supports it perhaps better than any other manufacturer on the planet. It hasn’t grown its footprint through acquisitions, as Volkswagen has, and it hasn’t undergone bankruptcy and bailout as GM has. Toyota has grown by building reliable cars for decades.

When Toyota offers an opinion on the car market, it’s probably worth listening to. This week, Toyota reiterated an opinion it has offered before. That opinion is straightforward: The world is not yet ready to support a fully electric auto fleet.

Toyota’s head of energy and environmental research Robert Wimmer testified before the Senate this week, and said: “If we are to make dramatic progress in electrification, it will require overcoming tremendous challenges, including refueling infrastructure, battery availability, consumer acceptance, and affordability.”

Wimmer’s remarks come on the heels of GM’s announcement that it will phase out all gas internal combustion engines (ICE) by 2035. Other manufacturers, including Mini, have followed suit with similar announcements.

Tellingly, both Toyota and Honda have so far declined to make any such promises. Honda is the world’s largest engine manufacturer when you take its boat, motorcycle, lawnmower, and other engines it makes outside the auto market into account. Honda competes in those markets with Briggs & Stratton and the increased electrification of lawnmowers, weed trimmers, and the like.

Wimmer noted that while manufactures have announced ambitious goals, just 2% of the world’s cars are electric at this point. For price, range, infrastructure, affordability, and other reasons, buyers continue to choose ICE over electric, and that’s even when electric engines are often subsidized with tax breaks to bring pricetags down.

The scale of the switch hasn’t even been introduced into the conversation in any systematic way yet. According to FinancesOnline, there are 289.5 million cars just on U.S. roads as of 2021. About 98 percent of them are gas-powered. Toyota’s RAV4 took the top spot for purchases in the U.S. market in 2019, with Honda’s CR-V in second. GM’s top seller, the Chevy Equinox, comes in at #4 behind the Nissan Rogue. This is in the U.S. market, mind. GM only has one entry in the top 15 in the U.S. Toyota and Honda dominate, with a handful each in the top 15.

Toyota warns that the grid and infrastructure simply aren’t there to support the electrification of the private car fleet. A 2017 U.S. government study found that we would need about 8,500 strategically-placed charge stations to support a fleet of just 7 million electric cars. That’s about six times the current number of electric cars but no one is talking about supporting just 7 million cars. We should be talking about powering about 300 million within the next 20 years, if all manufacturers follow GM and stop making ICE cars.



Simply put, we’re gonna need a bigger energy boat to deal with connecting all those cars to the power grids. A LOT bigger.

But instead of building a bigger boat, we may be shrinking the boat we have now. The power outages in California and Texas — the largest U.S. states by population and by car ownership — exposed issues with powering needs even at current usage levels. Increasing usage of wind and solar, neither of which can be throttled to meet demand, and both of which prove unreliable in crisis, has driven some coal and natural gas generators offline. Wind simply runs counter to needs — it generates too much power when we tend not to need it, and generates too little when we need more. The storage capacity to account for this doesn’t exist yet.

We will need much more generation capacity to power about 300 million cars if we’re all going to be forced to drive electric cars. Whether we’re charging them at home or charging them on the road, we will be charging them frequently. Every gas station you see on the roadside today will have to be wired to charge electric cars, and charge speeds will have to be greatly increased. Current technology enables charges in “as little as 30 minutes,” according to Kelly Blue Book. That best-case-scenario fast charging cannot be done on home power. It uses direct current and specialized systems. Charging at home on alternating current can take a few hours to overnight to fill the battery, and will increase the home power bill. That power, like all electricity in the United States, comes from generators using natural gas, petroleum, coal, nuclear, wind, solar, or hydroelectric power according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. I left out biomass because, despite Austin, Texas’ experiment with purchasing a biomass plant to help power the city, biomass is proving to be irrelevant in the grand energy scheme thus far. Austin didn’t even turn on its biomass plant during the recent freeze.

Half an hour is an unacceptably long time to spend at an electron pump. It’s about 5 to 10 times longer than a current trip to the gas pump tends to take when pumps can push 4 to 5 gallons into your tank per minute. That’s for consumer cars, not big rigs that have much larger tanks. Imagine the lines that would form at the pump, every day, all the time, if a single charge time isn’t reduced by 70 to 80 percent. We can expect improvements, but those won’t come without cost. Nothing does. There is no free lunch. Electrifying the auto fleet will require a massive overhaul of the power grid and an enormous increase in power generation. Elon Musk recently said we might need double the amount of power we’re currently generating if we go electric. He’s not saying this from a position of opposing electric cars. His Tesla dominates that market and he presumably wants to sell even more of them.

Toyota has publicly warned about this twice, while its smaller rival GM is pushing to go electric. GM may be virtue signaling to win favor with those in power in California and Washington and in the media. Toyota’s addressing reality and its record is evidence that it deserves to be heard.

Toyota isn’t saying none of this can be done, by the way. It’s just saying that so far, the conversation isn’t anywhere near serious enough to get things done.



YOU CAN IGNORE REALITY, BUT YOU CANNOT IGNORE

THE CONSEQUENCES OF IGNORING REALITY!