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Proof electric vehicle tech not viable

Buck

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Absolutely right. Recycling won't really come into play at massive scale until a decade from now.


The problem is not a scarcity of extractable lithium - there's plenty. The problem is a lack of mining, refining and manufacturing capacity to keep up with demand. It can take a decade to bring a new mine online, especially with all the environmental rules and permits.

Lithium extraction and refining needs to 10x in about 8 years to meet the planned capacity that battery & auto manufacturers have already committed to for 2030. Huge gap between supply and demand. Do the math.
i'd like to see it the same way but for a fact:
this country can't get people to work at fast food let alone get enough pilots to shuttle people around the country

opening up a mine is going to take time, creating that company town is going to take time...do i believe we'll be in a digital monetary world by then? perhaps, but i'd wager a quarter we'll be out of some of our ICE vehicles by then

timing is everything when any change is being 'forced' upon the masses and the timing is off, this EV change, the timing is way off

and if we were meant to be in electric cars, we'd have been in them at the roll of the century

the last century

the problem will always be with the storage device, the time to refresh that device, the distance that device will carry us and ultimately, for the general masses: Cost

i see the sheep being sheared, my kids were late bloomers to the vehicle ownership world, others here are the same way...some 'kids' now claim they won't ever own a car while a leader says we'll never own a car (we've been systematically programmed to 'be against any vehicle', and like that term 'assault weapon', meaningless no longer means meaningless; if you title a vehicle an EV, that's o.k., "but i'll never own one of those either, it's for the principal of the matter, you know?...but you can own one (like they're giving out permission) and that's a whole lot better than any old stinky carbon creating gas engine...you know?"

i don't see this as anything good, create some nebulous thing that fleeces us out of much of what we use, daily and soon we're at a stop, a dead stop, while they scratch their heads saying things like: Inflation will drop if we drop workers wages...shit like that


nope, don't participate mostly because i'm certain that the nucular (sic, lol) car is just around the corner...i heard that from a .gov leaker (joking here)


these cars can be fun, if you can afford one, and you want one, i've got zero problem, completely, go get one

but they're gonna end up with their own distinct problems shortly, one of which, if i believe what i've previously read, is that not enough people will be able to buy one, charge one or maintain one and the lithium base will become so diluted with everything they're doing with it these days, there will be less than enough for everyone to have their own source of 'independence'...we're gonna have to share, they even say so themselves, but i've not yet read the rebuttal from the new car manufacturers...i'll just presume there's complete silence / crickets from all of them

and there are no hippies left who'll buy these EV's from the used car dealer because they're still gonna cost too much


i've looked at this until i've become dizzy, that word, sustainable, comes to mind
perhaps it'll be a race to the bottom, which one will stop production first: ICE engine, EV battery

but watch the production chain, mostly because they still can't run a generator from a lithium battery pack but i'll just presume, there will be tens of millions of EV trucks about to be forced onto the road

have you read on those requirements?

sorta frightening...

i'm just presuming we're going to see an overall reduction in trucks on the road and each will carry diminshed loads, the weight of those battery packs will have to be taken into consideration when it comes to bridge weight


anyways, they're gonna be a collector item one day and i know others who can distill some gas, make old things run again, is there anyway to repair any chip or board that malfunctions along the way? idk about investments either but that deLorean was a pos so, there's always that


but everyone here knows what i think and i'm not trying to persuade anyone but myself, nor to push for any clarity on the subject other than for myself...i'm just typing out loud here, that's all

 

Buck

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...the vehicle to buy:
Hybrid

if you're going to get a vehicle, get one that will carry you a long distance before you gotta stop to pee, er, fuel up / charge up

a hybrid is about the best of what can be squeezed out of two worlds of physics and become transformed into personal transportation


there's always that ^
 

Ash_Williams

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Toyota is the leader, by far.


YOU CAN IGNORE REALITY, BUT YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE CONSEQUENCES OF IGNORING REALITY!



A very interesting article......For everyone.


BY BRYAN PRESTON MAR 19, 2021 12:50 PM ET

Depending on how and when you count, Japan’s Toyota is the world’s largest automaker. According to Wheels, Toyota and Volkswagen vie for the title of the world’s largest, with each taking the crown from the other as the market moves. That’s including Volkswagen’s inherent advantage of sporting 12 brands versus Toyota’s four. Audi, Lamborghini, Porsche, Bugatti, and Bentley are included in the Volkswagen brand family.

GM, America’s largest automaker, is about half Toyota’s size thanks to its 2009 bankruptcy and restructuring. Toyota is actually a major car manufacturer in the United States; in 2016 it made about 81% of the cars it sold in the U.S. right here in its nearly half a dozen American plants. If you’re driving a Tundra, RAV4, Camry, or Corolla it was probably American-made in a red state. Toyota was among the first to introduce gas-electric hybrid cars into the market, with the Prius twenty years ago. It hasn’t been afraid to change the car game.

All of this is to point out that Toyota understands both the car market and the infrastructure that supports it perhaps better than any other manufacturer on the planet. It hasn’t grown its footprint through acquisitions, as Volkswagen has, and it hasn’t undergone bankruptcy and bailout as GM has. Toyota has grown by building reliable cars for decades.

When Toyota offers an opinion on the car market, it’s probably worth listening to. This week, Toyota reiterated an opinion it has offered before. That opinion is straightforward: The world is not yet ready to support a fully electric auto fleet.

Toyota’s head of energy and environmental research Robert Wimmer testified before the Senate this week, and said: “If we are to make dramatic progress in electrification, it will require overcoming tremendous challenges, including refueling infrastructure, battery availability, consumer acceptance, and affordability.”

Wimmer’s remarks come on the heels of GM’s announcement that it will phase out all gas internal combustion engines (ICE) by 2035. Other manufacturers, including Mini, have followed suit with similar announcements.

Tellingly, both Toyota and Honda have so far declined to make any such promises. Honda is the world’s largest engine manufacturer when you take its boat, motorcycle, lawnmower, and other engines it makes outside the auto market into account. Honda competes in those markets with Briggs & Stratton and the increased electrification of lawnmowers, weed trimmers, and the like.

Wimmer noted that while manufactures have announced ambitious goals, just 2% of the world’s cars are electric at this point. For price, range, infrastructure, affordability, and other reasons, buyers continue to choose ICE over electric, and that’s even when electric engines are often subsidized with tax breaks to bring pricetags down.

The scale of the switch hasn’t even been introduced into the conversation in any systematic way yet. According to FinancesOnline, there are 289.5 million cars just on U.S. roads as of 2021. About 98 percent of them are gas-powered. Toyota’s RAV4 took the top spot for purchases in the U.S. market in 2019, with Honda’s CR-V in second. GM’s top seller, the Chevy Equinox, comes in at #4 behind the Nissan Rogue. This is in the U.S. market, mind. GM only has one entry in the top 15 in the U.S. Toyota and Honda dominate, with a handful each in the top 15.

Toyota warns that the grid and infrastructure simply aren’t there to support the electrification of the private car fleet. A 2017 U.S. government study found that we would need about 8,500 strategically-placed charge stations to support a fleet of just 7 million electric cars. That’s about six times the current number of electric cars but no one is talking about supporting just 7 million cars. We should be talking about powering about 300 million within the next 20 years, if all manufacturers follow GM and stop making ICE cars.



Simply put, we’re gonna need a bigger energy boat to deal with connecting all those cars to the power grids. A LOT bigger.

But instead of building a bigger boat, we may be shrinking the boat we have now. The power outages in California and Texas — the largest U.S. states by population and by car ownership — exposed issues with powering needs even at current usage levels. Increasing usage of wind and solar, neither of which can be throttled to meet demand, and both of which prove unreliable in crisis, has driven some coal and natural gas generators offline. Wind simply runs counter to needs — it generates too much power when we tend not to need it, and generates too little when we need more. The storage capacity to account for this doesn’t exist yet.

We will need much more generation capacity to power about 300 million cars if we’re all going to be forced to drive electric cars. Whether we’re charging them at home or charging them on the road, we will be charging them frequently. Every gas station you see on the roadside today will have to be wired to charge electric cars, and charge speeds will have to be greatly increased. Current technology enables charges in “as little as 30 minutes,” according to Kelly Blue Book. That best-case-scenario fast charging cannot be done on home power. It uses direct current and specialized systems. Charging at home on alternating current can take a few hours to overnight to fill the battery, and will increase the home power bill. That power, like all electricity in the United States, comes from generators using natural gas, petroleum, coal, nuclear, wind, solar, or hydroelectric power according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. I left out biomass because, despite Austin, Texas’ experiment with purchasing a biomass plant to help power the city, biomass is proving to be irrelevant in the grand energy scheme thus far. Austin didn’t even turn on its biomass plant during the recent freeze.

Half an hour is an unacceptably long time to spend at an electron pump. It’s about 5 to 10 times longer than a current trip to the gas pump tends to take when pumps can push 4 to 5 gallons into your tank per minute. That’s for consumer cars, not big rigs that have much larger tanks. Imagine the lines that would form at the pump, every day, all the time, if a single charge time isn’t reduced by 70 to 80 percent. We can expect improvements, but those won’t come without cost. Nothing does. There is no free lunch. Electrifying the auto fleet will require a massive overhaul of the power grid and an enormous increase in power generation. Elon Musk recently said we might need double the amount of power we’re currently generating if we go electric. He’s not saying this from a position of opposing electric cars. His Tesla dominates that market and he presumably wants to sell even more of them.

Toyota has publicly warned about this twice, while its smaller rival GM is pushing to go electric. GM may be virtue signaling to win favor with those in power in California and Washington and in the media. Toyota’s addressing reality and its record is evidence that it deserves to be heard.

Toyota isn’t saying none of this can be done, by the way. It’s just saying that so far, the conversation isn’t anywhere near serious enough to get things done.



YOU CAN IGNORE REALITY, BUT YOU CANNOT IGNORE

THE CONSEQUENCES OF IGNORING REALITY!
The Tesla plan is to generate the power needed, and to have as system where a battery isn't necessarily recharged but simply swapped for a charged one at a charging station.
Toyota might understand the past and being doing ok right now but I don't have much faith in their understanding of the future.
 

Buck

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That’s an interesting idea except what if I swap out my new battery for one that’s undergone 1000 charging cycles already and has lost half its capacity? No thank you when they cost half the vehicle to replace.
i think the idea would be to run your car until it's time for a re-charge but instead, have the battery swapped in a similar amount of time

you'll not really keep any of those battery packs, they'll always be 'in motion' from one vehicle to the next

you pull in, they swap battery packs and give you one that's pre-charged, ready to go, you're in/out in 15 minutes

like those 20v power tools, you always have a spare battery ready to go, just swap it out, and the idea is to make the swap a fast one but that's gonna take some drastic engineering changes to body styles, battery pack placement, etc

in some cases, there goes any safety feature, such as battery protection when it's an integral part of your roof, if only for those required 'quick battery changes' you need on the way to Vegas one Friday afternoon, if only to keep your arrival time sometime before midnight...just saying...
 

Uglytruth

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i think the idea would be to run your car until it's time for a re-charge but instead, have the battery swapped in a similar amount of time

you'll not really keep any of those battery packs, they'll always be 'in motion' from one vehicle to the next

you pull in, they swap battery packs and give you one that's pre-charged, ready to go, you're in/out in 15 minutes

like those 20v power tools, you always have a spare battery ready to go, just swap it out, and the idea is to make the swap a fast one but that's gonna take some drastic engineering changes to body styles, battery pack placement, etc

in some cases, there goes any safety feature, such as battery protection when it's an integral part of your roof, if only for those required 'quick battery changes' you need on the way to Vegas one Friday afternoon, if only to keep your arrival time sometime before midnight...just saying...
Think of it as weldign gas bottles. Always on rotation. Owned by someone else. Paying demurage by the day. Battery life will not matter. Your buying KWH & with a bar coded fleet of batteries they will know who has when and when. Think of it as a extension of the digital dollar.

What Buch said about the battery packs is right. But the problem is they wouold all need to agree on a universal platform. They don't want to do that as it's huge to win for the company that comes out with one first.

User fees and instalation fees not included.
 

chieftain

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That’s an interesting idea except what if I swap out my new battery for one that’s undergone 1000 charging cycles already and has lost half its capacity? No thank you when they cost half the vehicle to replace.

Isuzu had a plan for "swap n go" battery packs for the electric trucks it was going to manufacture. They were pushing for a two year lifespan for the batteries in circulation because of this problem. Their testing revealed that batteries in circulation for two years were able to retain 87% of their charge capacity by the end. However that project has since died as the numbers didn't add up; they were so bad that no amount of cooking the books could make EV trucks make money.
 

Buck

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they're even making bicycles with built in battery packs...there is no savings on any maintenance that would make that $1,000 bicycle feasible in anyone's lifetime


. . .so, at the end of it's life, would I recycle the entire bicycle at that time? hmmmm...who around me would accept a bicycle frame full of dead lithium cells?

the fire hazard insurance alone, required for handling these batteries, is gonna combust many business' model
 

tigerwillow1

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a hybrid is about the best of what can be squeezed out of two worlds of physics and become transformed into personal transportation
I fully agree with the stipulation that it's a plug-in hybrid. Run it on electric full-time for short trips, charge overnight at home. Still able to take it on longer trips without the associated EV hassle.
Think of it as weldign gas bottles. Always on rotation. Owned by someone else. Paying demurage by the day.
Currently, one of the arguments from pro-EV people is how the cost of fuel is so much lower with an EV, which is true at this time. What's that fuel cost going to be with swap-in batteries? In addition the cost of electric you'll be paying the cost of those who administer the program, inventory costs, bad battery replacement cost, facility cost, with all of those things taxed. What will the fuel cost be then? The actual electricity cost could be a small percentage of the total.
 

chieftain

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In addition the cost of electric you'll be paying the cost of those who administer the program, inventory costs, bad battery replacement cost, facility cost, with all of those things taxed

The storage facility for the pool of batteries and the requisite infrastructure required to maintain said battery pool was one of the biggest cost centres that contributed to the demise of the Isuzu project.
 

Uglytruth

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For the consumer it is the worst of all worlds. Cars would be much cheaper without batteries. But the related costs on charging stations, charging, tracking, some sort of time associated rental fee, change out battery labor, kilowatts used, hot cold weather issues, different levels of battery life, Not ready for prime time. Then throw in hydrogen and some other platforms & who would tkae the risk in todays controlled world to invest in anything like that?
 

Ash_Williams

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That’s an interesting idea except what if I swap out my new battery for one that’s undergone 1000 charging cycles already and has lost half its capacity? No thank you when they cost half the vehicle to replace.
You wouldn't think of it as your battery. It would just be a battery, it would cost $40 or whatever to swap in, and the charging station would remove the ones in poor condition from circulation. You get a fully charged battery in just a few minutes by paying that premium, or you do the normal slower way of charging and pay less.
 

DodgebyDave

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You wouldn't think of it as your battery. It would just be a battery, it would cost $40 or whatever to swap in, and the charging station would remove the ones in poor condition from circulation. You get a fully charged battery in just a few minutes by paying that premium, or you do the normal slower way of charging and pay less.
So, where is the savings?
 

Ash_Williams

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So, where is the savings?
The energy price per mile will be lower than if gasoline was used, and the swap occurs more quickly than filling a tank of gas.
It solves the current problem of recharging taking far, far longer than refueling.
Tesla vehicles would then become just as practical for long road trips as gasoline vehicles, but with the advantage of savings in energy costs.
 

Buck

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i'm trying to picture how the handling of 500+ pounds of battery, is gonna be done by a bunch of underpaid grease monkeys in ten minutes or it's free


what? forklift? overhead crane? 4 of those grease monkeys pulling and tugging?


and no one will lose a finger while you're in the bathroom...that'll slow the process down


and if we can't get people to work fast food, not because they don't want the work, but because they can't handle the work, you won't want any of them changing anything on your vehicle, nothing


...

typed with lots of love for grease monkeys

this was me for decades doing that shit

:monkey piss:
 

Ash_Williams

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i'm trying to picture how the handling of 500+ pounds of battery, is gonna be done by a bunch of underpaid grease monkeys in ten minutes or it's free


what? forklift? overhead crane? 4 of those grease monkeys pulling and tugging?


and no one will lose a finger while you're in the bathroom...that'll slow the process down


and if we can't get people to work fast food, not because they don't want the work, but because they can't handle the work, you won't want any of them changing anything on your vehicle, nothing


...

typed with lots of love for grease monkeys

this was me for decades doing that shit

:monkey piss:
If only it were automated and took 90 seconds...
 

Buck

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If only it were automated and took 90 seconds...
yeah, uh huh


what's the cost of that machine gonna be and how quickly is that 'garage' planning on taking to pay it off?

there's that 'floating cost' that can't be tracked


and i noticed: we don't really get that good of a view of any bolts / screws / wiring connectors being manipulated during that 90 seconds, so, begs the question: what was left off of that car? what's been changed from the normal production car?


EV's are worse than that pet rock they used to sell us...all cost and little return on that investment but hot damn, you're the richest kid on the block if you're driving one...but let me see your debt load before you accept my award

:green tea:
 

newmisty

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it's actually a business model that has a zero chance of scaling and of sustaining itself since there isn't enough lithium to satisfy the New World Order's requirements in the first place
"Perfect, we'll start production immediately!"
 

newmisty

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yeah, uh huh


what's the cost of that machine gonna be and how quickly is that 'garage' planning on taking to pay it off?

there's that 'floating cost' that can't be tracked


and i noticed: we don't really get that good of a view of any bolts / screws / wiring connectors being manipulated during that 90 seconds, so, begs the question: what was left off of that car? what's been changed from the normal production car?


EV's are worse than that pet rock they used to sell us...all cost and little return on that investment but hot damn, you're the richest kid on the block if you're driving one...but let me see your debt load before you accept my award

:green tea:
It's like the pet rock but with a bunch of computer modules hooked up to "maintain its infrastructure".
 

Ash_Williams

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yeah, uh huh


what's the cost of that machine gonna be and how quickly is that 'garage' planning on taking to pay it off?

there's that 'floating cost' that can't be tracked


and i noticed: we don't really get that good of a view of any bolts / screws / wiring connectors being manipulated during that 90 seconds, so, begs the question: what was left off of that car? what's been changed from the normal production car?


EV's are worse than that pet rock they used to sell us...all cost and little return on that investment but hot damn, you're the richest kid on the block if you're driving one...but let me see your debt load before you accept my award

:green tea:
I used to be skeptical, but it's better if they get it working because it really is the only way to make driving work if things go bad. The idea is solar-powered charging stations in enough locations to keep road travel working after a zombie apocalypse. I'd buy a tesla but I'm way too cheap.
 

Buck

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It's like the pet rock but with a bunch of computer modules hooked up to "maintain its infrastructure".
yet all i am really asking for, in any EV i might be interested in buying:
can they put Pong on my dashboard display?

that'll give me something to do while i'm not doing what i should be doing...that would be Driving


there are few things that give me that 'sensation' of being in full control more than driving my truck in a sea of nincompoops

I used to be skeptical, but it's better if they get it working because it really is the only way to make driving work if things go bad. The idea is solar-powered charging stations in enough locations to keep road travel working after a zombie apocalypse. I'd buy a tesla but I'm way too cheap.

just because we can, doesn't mean we should


Americans have such a difficult time with that phrase...as we've been sold that whatever we do will succeed, which is a myth, we've collectively spent decades wasting our time on something / anything to make our lives better when at the end of the day:
Typically we're throwing that debris out because it didn't have any quality in it in the first place

and it didn't make our lives any better

but it made 'them' one helluva large pile of fiat
 

viking

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what's the cost of that machine gonna be and how quickly is that 'garage' planning on taking to pay it off?

there's that 'floating cost' that can't be tracked

and i noticed: we don't really get that good of a view of any bolts / screws / wiring connectors being manipulated during that 90 seconds, so, begs the question: what was left off of that car? what's been changed from the normal production car?
“bolts / screws”. They’ll use Velcro…
“wiring connectors” wireless magnet charging…. :2 thumbs up::belly laugh:

And the undercarriage of a car full of ice, snow and slush mixed up with salt and other road chemicals.
 

Ash_Williams

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And the undercarriage of a car full of ice, snow and slush mixed up with salt and other road chemicals.
So? They could throw in a drive-through carwash for free as part of the process in northern climates and it would probably still be faster than pumping fuel and there would be no need to leave the vehicle. These aren't hard problems to solve.
 

viking

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So? They could throw in a drive-through carwash for free as part of the process in northern climates and it would probably still be faster than pumping fuel and there would be no need to leave the vehicle. These aren't hard problems to solve.

That would add a bit of time, maintenance and expense with many passes of very hot water to melt the caked in ice.
 

Buck

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That would add a bit of time, maintenance and expense with many passes of very hot water to melt the caked in ice.
this is the part right here that is getting to me: the Details

too many are believing all of this infrastructure won't add much to any overall costs associated with that EV

but wait, business' are in business to make money, not to give anything away for Free

...saying "Just Add This, Just Add That" is something a consumer would say while that business owner is saying: Who's Gonna Pay For That?

Preppers might say we should.
i'm a prepper and i'm not going anywhere near any of these things unless i have absolutely zero other choices



besides:
It's Their Game

and homey here, i don't play many of their games anymore


and lastly: if you got the benjamins, the sky is the limit as far as what you're prepping with but for the rest of us, we've got to pick and choose what we spend our cash on
 

Ash_Williams

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It's a carwash combined with a forklift. It's not rocket appliances.
 

TAEZZAR

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they're even making bicycles with built in battery packs...there is no savings on any maintenance that would make that $1,000 bicycle feasible in anyone's lifetime


. . .so, at the end of it's life, would I recycle the entire bicycle at that time? hmmmm...who around me would accept a bicycle frame full of dead lithium cells?

the fire hazard insurance alone, required for handling these batteries, is gonna combust many business' model
Wholly crap, Buck, I just saw an electric bike for $5,500 at a sporting goods store. :rage 1
 

Buck

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Wholly crap, Buck, I just saw an electric bike for $5,500 at a sporting goods store. :rage 1
what's that saying?

a fool and his money soon end up under the back wheels of a bus


i think that's how it goes...

:summer:
 

Buck

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It's a carwash combined with a forklift. It's not rocket appliances.
no, it's certainly not, but it is physics and the safety that should be built-in

it takes a lot of 'securing' to keep that one ton package safely attached through all bumps and rocks and perhaps the occasional deer you might run into in the middle of the night

and it's gotta be weather proof, accident proof and basically shielded towards as much safety as can be applied, that includes preventing that chassis from becoming electrified so as to not kill any first responders

...it's a bit more than a carwash and a forklift otherwise everyone and their brothers son would soon be swapping them out, some ASE certified, some not, some trained, some not

and the thought of one tiny heat point, one split in one seam, one thermal reaction that goes the wrong way is gonna change their insurance rating along with melting your car...

Bubba says; so sorry, our insurance didn't cover your vehicle he'd say...but we'll give you a complimentary wash at our facility in the next town over...that is, until we get this place rebuilt

Bubba says: you wanna ride on our forklift? (gas powered, no less) i can take you over there?

. . .i can see it now
 
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Brio

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My brother bought an EV. He lives in the Yukon. So he can drive it 5 months of the year and has to keep it in a heated shop 7 months of the year. Double the firewood. He can't leave Whitehorse, there are no charging stations for ~ 500 miles. He can't haul firewood or pick up parts or supplies. So he joy rides up and down the road to get the mail but drives his diesel pickup to get anywhere. Resale value is bugger all. I just smh.
 

DodgebyDave

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The energy price per mile will be lower than if gasoline was used, and the swap occurs more quickly than filling a tank of gas.
It solves the current problem of recharging taking far, far longer than refueling.
Tesla vehicles would then become just as practical for long road trips as gasoline vehicles, but with the advantage of savings in energy costs.
I want to see this unicorn fart fantasy.
 

Brio

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Ba4oOwu.gif
 

Buck

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the retard in pink?

all the rest appear to be 'normal' iyam
 

Uglytruth

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I think the batteries are liquid cooled. So there are coolant issues also.

So how many fully charged batteries will this place have? How many will be charging? How much juice will that take?

Is the same battery used in a Honda Fit as in a Ford F350? Do we need 5-10 sizes of batteries?

At lunch today a guy was saying his relative has an EV. Charging stations cost $0.44 per minute. I'm sure there is a connection user fee.

One thing they said is you will only put enough charge in to get home where it's cheaper / next charging station.
 

Ash_Williams

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Ugghhhh….you really think those things are going to survive a massive EMP attack? Or even local thuggish riots for that matter..:everything must burn.
They will probably survive or at least be re-buildable in the kind of doomsday scenario I envision.
 

Buck

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They will probably survive or at least be re-buildable in the kind of doomsday scenario I envision.
maybe...if a few of them are brought into their DUMB's but, down there, a battery-powered golf cart would be a better choice
 

Ash_Williams

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You should start a thread to share your vision of TEOTWAWKI then. Sounds like unicorns and rainbows to me but perhaps I’m wrong….
Large-scale infrastructure fails. Pumping oil in one part of the world, shipping it halfway around the globe to refine it, and then trucking it to gas stations thousands of miles away becomes unfeasible. Similary for food imported from long-distances and anything made in china. Communications and infrastructure become less reliable.
 

Uglytruth

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