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Proof electric vehicle tech not viable

Buck

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1:39 regarding 'new vehicles' but i'd wager, his opinion also applies to most 'new' technologies

"manufactures aren't supporting the cars"(they make), replace the word 'car' with another object and you'd be mostly correct...
 

TAEZZAR

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his opinion also applies to most 'new' technologies
YUP, that is why it is smart to buy 3 to 5 year old technology. Except for electric cars. I'd wait 20 years !!!
The "latest & greatest" is not.:oriental::shit happens:
 

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I’d imagine it is just a matter of time when the Chinese will offer non-OEM replacement batteries for different cars (at least for popular cars). Just like they did with cellphones batteries. And already do with other car parts.
 
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Buck

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if there isn't enough lithium to build enough personal / commercial transportation as what is supposed to come off line, where are those 'replacement batteries' raw materials supposed to come from?

and if lithium is as 'rare' as we're being told, why are lithium battery costs coming down?

i see that in the 20v battery replacement market, costs for aftermarket batteries are dropping


it's got me a bit perplexed...is our collective optimism keeping up with that of our NWO handlers?

i mean, the only shortages i see are for battery packs that fit those original models where only a few thousand models were made

remember gm pulled their cars back, once their beta testing was done, they didn't sell those cars, they 'leased' them to the 'owners' who weren't, they were those willing to plunk down the cash for something they wouldn't own, and they knew this, going in

...there are a lot of points to be made, right there...

but anyways, where's all the shortages at? they must be digging bigger holes in the ground, idk...euphoria? insanity? NWO...yep



dystopia
 

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and if lithium is as 'rare' as we're being told, why are lithium battery costs coming down?

i see that in the 20v battery replacement market, costs for aftermarket batteries are dropping
I don't have figures; but I see it as the normal trend of a maturing technology.

When you buy a newfangled widget...you pay for the R&D cost, that is, the high-salary engineers and marketers...PLUS the materials, which are not yet extracted at the most-efficient rate and manner...PLUS a profit premium to Excelsior Widget, First To Market.

Later on, the development cost is paid down; competitors enter who have little or none of that research cost; and they ARE the competition. Think Dell Computer, facing down IBM and Hewlett-Packard. They find cheaper ways/sources for supplies and material.

Finally, the product reaches the commodity phase. Patents expire. The race is to find the cheapest source for labor, factory facilities, and material. Enter Wuhan Widget, where factory-floor suicides are DOWN to ten percent of the "workforce" (slave labor population).

I think that's what's happening with the 20v power-tool battery market, now.
 

Buck

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I don't have figures; but I see it as the normal trend of a maturing technology.

When you buy a newfangled widget...you pay for the R&D cost, that is, the high-salary engineers and marketers...PLUS the materials, which are not yet extracted at the most-efficient rate and manner...PLUS a profit premium to Excelsior Widget, First To Market.

Later on, the development cost is paid down; competitors enter who have little or none of that research cost; and they ARE the competition. Think Dell Computer, facing down IBM and Hewlett-Packard. They find cheaper ways/sources for supplies and material.

Finally, the product reaches the commodity phase. Patents expire. The race is to find the cheapest source for labor, factory facilities, and material. Enter Wuhan Widget, where factory-floor suicides are DOWN to ten percent of the "workforce" (slave labor population).

I think that's what's happening with the 20v power-tool battery market, now.
yeah but...

i'm talking, similar item: OEM: $50+, that's typicall 'on sale', while the aftermarket packs: $15-20 each for the similar Ah rating

similar internals, the tools don't know the difference...yet, and i'm watching as the OEM's are going UP in price with the 'factory reps' laying claim in YT videos the aftermarkets aren't "as good", blah blah blah (but they are if you shop them properly...i tell you about the time i bought a 5Ah battery that weighed too light? it had the larger case but they left several of the batteries out...they demanded i send them back for a full refund...i did, wish i would have kept them but i got photos of the weight differences between a known complete pack and these two i received...cheaters are everywhere, caveat emptor)

idk, like i mentioned, it does sound as if it's all a waste of time and effort, this EV agenda....a diversion to get us out of our own personal vehicles


as an aside:
for the future: i think the tool guys are trying to limit the aftermarket through the installation of operating chips or some type of technology where if the tool doesn't see a ping from that manufacturers battery, the tool won't light off...expect bypass videos to crop up shortly there-after

those don't fully exist on most product lines yet, and going with that, i'm selecting my 'final' tool purchases that "Should Last Me" for the rest of my life...

in Europe, they're attempting to make the manufacturers go to a single battery platform and they're spending millions of taxpayer dollars on research to get there...give me few thousand and i'd suggest they simply make the battery connectors the same across everyone's tools...problems solved

yeah o.k......


anyways:

(one day, i'll probably be found dead under a pile of 20v batteries and tool adapters, but i'm going for the long picture...)


someone be sure the hearse isn't EV...please!

:green tea:
 

gnome

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if there isn't enough lithium to build enough personal / commercial transportation as what is supposed to come off line, where are those 'replacement batteries' raw materials supposed to come from?

and if lithium is as 'rare' as we're being told, why are lithium battery costs coming down?

i see that in the 20v battery replacement market, costs for aftermarket batteries are dropping


it's got me a bit perplexed...is our collective optimism keeping up with that of our NWO handlers?

i mean, the only shortages i see are for battery packs that fit those original models where only a few thousand models were made

remember gm pulled their cars back, once their beta testing was done, they didn't sell those cars, they 'leased' them to the 'owners' who weren't, they were those willing to plunk down the cash for something they wouldn't own, and they knew this, going in

...there are a lot of points to be made, right there...

but anyways, where's all the shortages at? they must be digging bigger holes in the ground, idk...euphoria? insanity? NWO...yep



dystopia
Lithium is not rare. Mining capacity is not ramped so demand exceeds supply.

Nothing goes up in a straight line, markets go up and down even in a bull market.

20v batteries is a small subset of lithium battery market.
 

Buck

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Lithium is not rare. Mining capacity is not ramped so demand exceeds supply.

Nothing goes up in a straight line, markets go up and down even in a bull market.

20v batteries is a small subset of lithium battery market.
idk, there are a lot of 'mouths' making noise about the size of the holes we're gonna need, to bring that much ore up, to get to the amount of lithium we need, will be gi-normous and it is an interesting subject to listen to...

and yes, 20v lithium batteries are a subset market, but one that is fully developed to the point there is a huge aftermarket to follow, that allows for trends to be watched, but never follow the 'marketing', the hoopla, always follow the money...where do they expect to get the bulk of it from? and the lines of accessories are important too, as they are a smaller 'subset' as you would call it but it's extremely valuable for these companies as they insert these 'lesser pieces' into sets that can be put on sale, etc...(and by following this i also get a view into the transportation sector as i watch, new tool roll outs where the stores only get limited quantities and the numbers are very low with some pieces having individual shipping labels on the bright shiny packaging, thereby eliminating part of that billion dollar program of 'packaging designed to draw the customer towards it' now some of it is covered with a shipping label, as if they didn't all come in on a pallet...)

but, that 'nothing goes up in a straight line...' the last ten / twelve years would be a fine example of a point in time where the markets, quite actually, didn't function properly at all

financial criminals are charged with crimes at the rate of about 5 - 10 per year, something like that, all will pay their fines, it happens all the time, they go back to work and we simply move forward, never looking back

i'd suggest: an actually honest market, we've never seen one and as such, it's not possible to determine what is truly going to happen next, not from the cheap seats
 

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i'm selecting my 'final' tool purchases that "Should Last Me" for the rest of my life..
Looking for a String trimmer and a blower / vaccuum & possibly a small chain saw / circular saw that would always use the same batteries.

Guy at work bought a battery tool kit from Lowes at Christmas time. Lifetime battery replacement. It was a limited time but might be coming again at Christmas time.
 

Buck

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Looking for a String trimmer and a blower / vaccuum & possibly a small chain saw / circular saw that would always use the same batteries.

Guy at work bought a battery tool kit from Lowes at Christmas time. Lifetime battery replacement. It was a limited time but might be coming again at Christmas time.
my adventure: short and sweet, began B&D 18v but the batteries suck, we all remember those days...i was buying corded replacement stuff and the lithium craze began so i investigated and found the world of battery adapters...i've got mostly what i want, even some aftermarket led lights that are compatible with my 20v B&D battery assembly and four chargers

i'm kinda good to go and am expecting some type of change across the next few years as this DIY is most likely not acceptable across boardrooms

but be careful with any lifetime warranty, is that yours? the tools? the companies? the brands? because once they stop making them, that's the end of that warranty and i'd never pay for any extended warranty as my tools will either break in the first 90 days or i'll break them across the next 10 years or they won't break at all, that seems to be my 'life pattern' with tools

if there were 'one brand' i'd pick if i had to do it over again? i'd shop for the battery packs and charger availabilities and for the company that should be here the longest, and i'd believe that should be either DeWalt or Craftsman, both Stanley, they would be good choices, but, there are so many more to select from...but i'd begin by researching the batteries and chargers as that will be your foundation...i'd look for adapter availability across brands and i'd also shop replacement battery costs, it's all going to end up being your foundation, don't scrimp on this part

i've not had any problems except with VANON aftermarket batteries but it appears as if B&D brand is going towards a 12v product right now, for hobbiests...non-replaceable batteries though....that's not where i'm headed, so, right now, i'm where i need to be but who knows what tomorrow will bring...most likely 'restrictions', but i always prepare for the worst

ive heard good things about Kobalt but that's a 24v system and i may never actually own one as i don't believe my 20v packs will be enough to light them off...idk

but that color blue is really cool...

:summer:

oh yeah, you're gonna be 'married' to that battery / charger set, shop it diligently and you'll do o.k.(i think i mentioned that) and you don't have to buy the most expensive set either, some company in germany sells a cordless set for a lot of money, a lot of money...i can't recall the name but i'd probably want to frame it once it arrives, too pretty to use and get all scarred up
 

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Aftermarket batteries tend to be shit. The capacity isn't as good and the lifespans are terrible.
Good aftermarkets cost almost as much as the original except in cases where the OEM is screwing the customer by making replacement batteries into a revenue stream. Similar to printer ink/toner.
 

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The flat-packs are then transferred to a 40ft high-cube container, which can accommodate six OX trucks.

That's one way to get more range! Train Containers
 

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if lithium is as 'rare' as we're being told, why are lithium battery costs coming down?
I read an article where some nation was mining landfills for disposed VAPE Pins and the metals in them, some of which are considered rare metals.
 

Buck

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i just lost another VANON battery pack tonight, that company produced another piece of junk lithium battery pack...i'm now up to 4 of them, red light charging, tested below 10v...i can't return it, it was already refunded as i complained about telling them specifically i didn't want that battery pack, they said o.k. and shipped 'em anyways...i got 4 for free that complaint

(and yes, i tried that voltage equalization, between packs, for about 20 minutes and there wasn't any change in the condition of the 'dead' pack)

anyways...

one day i'm gonna have a mountain of 'em and if they're really 'rare' someone is gonna wanna pay me to get them back and if not, some river, somewhere...no, i wouldn't do that, that's some serious chit right there, NiCads were bad but they typically didn't carry the potential to burn my house down, and there's always that

...maybe sell 'em to some company that'll float test 'em in the pacific, i really don't know...i can start fires, we know they do that...idk



:summer:
 

Casey Jones

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i just lost another VANON battery pack tonight, that company produced another piece of junk lithium battery pack...i'm now up to 4 of them, red light charging, tested below 10v...i can't return it, it was already refunded as i complained about telling them specifically i didn't want that battery pack, they said o.k. and shipped 'em anyways...i got 4 for free that complaint

(and yes, i tried that voltage equalization, between packs, for about 20 minutes and there wasn't any change in the condition of the 'dead' pack)

anyways...

one day i'm gonna have a mountain of 'em and if they're really 'rare' someone is gonna wanna pay me to get them back and if not, some river, somewhere...no, i wouldn't do that, that's some serious chit right there, NiCads were bad but they typically didn't carry the potential to burn my house down, and there's always that

...maybe sell 'em to some company that'll float test 'em in the pacific, i really don't know...i can start fires, we know they do that...idk



:summer:
That's what I'd do.

Wait until the next Fourth - or have a New Year's barbecue. Six beers, and a pile of Li-I batteries...hey, hold my beer...

It could be epic, or it could only be entertaining. You do the hands-on report.
 

Buck

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i've done stupider things and i've also had lots of training courtesy of YT...

i'm ready...

hold my beer...


cool:
 

Buck

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:bomb 1:


yep, we knew that was coming
 

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I had 2 porter cable 14.4 batteries. Tried the zapping with a welder trick. It worked on one & the other was just plain dead.
Now I keep batteries in the house all winter.

Think about that if your going to be buying a mower........ winter storage & battery life.
 

Uglytruth

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I think NASCAR should make the switch to EVs.






:computer:
That way napcar won't wake me all they will have left is annoying anouncers.
 

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From that article:

"On Thursday, Ford Motor Company announced that it has secured 60 GWh of battery cells that will allow it to build 600,000 electric vehicles by late 2023. And it says it has contracts for cells that will allow it to build 1.4 million EVs by 2026, 70 percent of the 2 million EVs it plans to build globally that year.
Good! Ford is making some decent strides. GM, on the other hand, is flailing badly.

Tesla just reiterated guidance they will grow production about 50%yoy which puts them at about 1.4 million EVs in 2022. They will be at 2 million annual run rate at the beginning of 2023. It looks like their quarterly profit is going to roughly double between now and end of year. Their growth rate and margins are insane.
 

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Good! Ford is making some decent strides. GM, on the other hand, is flailing badly.

Tesla just reiterated guidance they will grow production about 50%yoy which puts them at about 1.4 million EVs in 2022. They will be at 2 million annual run rate at the beginning of 2023. It looks like their quarterly profit is going to roughly double between now and end of year. Their growth rate and margins are insane.

This could be good for the home energy storage market. Ford’s announcement said they will be using LiFePO4 batteries (and Tesla too).

Used EV batteries could hit the market and be relatively cheap with maybe only 20-30% degradation. Perfect for a home setup where weight and space aren’t usually a big deal.
 

gnome

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This could be good for the home energy storage market. Ford’s announcement said they will be using LiFePO4 batteries (and Tesla too).

Used EV batteries could hit the market and be relatively cheap with maybe only 20-30% degradation. Perfect for a home setup where weight and space aren’t usually a big deal.
CATL is also set to start scaling Sodium Ion batteries in 2023 - lower energy density than LFP, so not ready for EV's but good for storage and should be able to sidestep the lithium bottleneck.
 

Buck

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this IS good news, let's see how this plays out


but i'm the skeptic:
does this announcement favor Ford or We The People?
...or their boredroom...or wall street?

time will certainly tell more than their announcement and since sales of all ICE vehicles are down, they're gonna be digging deep into their pockets for their new R&D department, unless they're getting tax subsidies, then it really doesn't matter...
 

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does this announcement favor Ford or We The People?
More lost freedom........ you are under their control. Becasue they litterally HAVE THE POWER! What if they turn your digital card off or it don't work outside of your "zone" and you can't charge & there is no more cash..........

You know the next thing is to "upgrade the grid". It will cost trillions of dollars...... we don't have. Driving copper prices up, palms getting greased....... if they don't kill us all off first.
You worhtless deplorable eaters!
 

Cigarlover

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More lost freedom........ you are under their control. Becasue they litterally HAVE THE POWER! What if they turn your digital card off or it don't work outside of your "zone" and you can't charge & there is no more cash..........

You know the next thing is to "upgrade the grid". It will cost trillions of dollars...... we don't have. Driving copper prices up, palms getting greased....... if they don't kill us all off first.
You worhtless deplorable eaters!
200 trillion worldwide to go green.
 

gnome

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this IS good news, let's see how this plays out


but i'm the skeptic:
does this announcement favor Ford or We The People?
...or their boredroom...or wall street?

time will certainly tell more than their announcement and since sales of all ICE vehicles are down, they're gonna be digging deep into their pockets for their new R&D department, unless they're getting tax subsidies, then it really doesn't matter...
Good for Mexico.

Tesla Model 3 tops the list as the most american made NEW vehicle you can buy.

https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-...ndex-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/
 

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Instead of swapping batteries, just electrify the highways and recharge on the fly.

ig2017110013moen_300dpi.jpg



The trucks are ready to go. Just need a highway with catenary lines to put 'em on.

63386_O.jpg
 

Uglytruth

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And leave out the cars?


A 1-mile stretch of road is being built in Detroit that can charge electric cars as they drive — if owners install a special receiver​

Grace Kay
Feb 4, 2022, 10:28 AM


Electreon

Electreon
  • Electreon Wireless is building a mile-long stretch in Detroit that will charge electric cars as the drive on it.
  • The company said the roadway will be fully functional by 2023 for EVs that install a special receiver.
  • Charging infrastructure poses a major hurdle for electric-vehicle adoption.
Sign up for our newsletter to receive our top stories based on your reading preferences — delivered daily to your inbox.

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A startup is building the first road in the US that will allow modified electric cars to charge as they drive.
Electreon Wireless, a company based out of Tel Aviv, Israel, is working with Ford and DTE to bring its wireless charging technology to Detroit next year. The company said it has already implemented its infrastructure into roadways in Sweden, Israel, and Italy.
The electrified road will stretch about a mile long and will be located near Detroit's Michigan Central Terminal, an abandoned train station that Ford is converting into its "mobility innovation district." The state of Michigan plans to contribute $1.9 million to the project which Electreon said will be fully functional by 2023.
The roadway will charge electric vehicles whether they're in motion or at a stop through a process called inductive charging, which use a magnetic frequency to transfer power from metal coils that are buried under the road to a special receiver on the underside of the EV. While the road will operate normally for all gas cars and EVs that are not equipped with the receiver, Axios estimates installing the special receiver will cost about $3,000 to $4,000 per car. Though, Electreon told the publication they hope to get the price closer to $1,000 to $1,500.
Ultimately, wireless charging could help ease range anxiety and facilitate mass EV adoption. Charging infrastructure poses a major hurdle for electric-vehicle adoption. Insider's Dominick Reuter previously reported that one in five EV owners has switched back to gas cars because charging represented too much of a "hassle." Data from JD Power in 2021 found that anxiety related to an electric car's battery range is a primary limiting factor in the commercial viability of the vehicles.
"As we aim to lead the future of mobility and electrification by boosting electric vehicle production and lowering consumer costs, a wireless in-road charging system is the next piece to the puzzle for sustainability," Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer said in a press release.
Electreon is one of several companies advertising wireless EV charging options. Insider's Alexa St. John previously reported that the Israeli company is one of six racing to capitalize on a market that could hit $207.5 billion in the next decade.
The concept of wireless EV charging is far from new. In 1986, California tested a wireless charging option with roadway powered cars for its Partners for Advanced Transit and Highways (PATH) program. In recent years, wireless charging for phones has also seen a push from companies like Apple and Samsung. But, overall, wireless charging efforts have fallen flat as the hardware has proven expensive and often unwieldy.
Insider has previously reported that researchers at Cornell University have been working on making a wireless charging process for US highways that would use electric fields instead of magnetic ones — a switch that lead researcher Khurram Afridi said would make the process cheaper and provide more energy.
 

Buck

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emf's anyone?


why is it i'm feeling less smarter by the day?

the more i read of these people's costly dreams, the more i realize it's nothing more than my nightmares come to life....
 

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viking

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Driving copper prices up, palms getting greased....... if they don't kill us all off first.

Keep those old pennies.

And don’t forget to invest in Aluminium, that and steel are what high power lines are made of.
 

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The trucks are ready to go. Just need a highway with catenary lines to put 'em on.
Interesting concept. My first thought was that since it works so well with trains it should work with the trucks, too. Then I realized there are a few additional details:
1. The trucks would obviously need either a petro engine or a battery.
2. A double catenary needed instead of single with trains.
3. Wear and tear on caterary will be a lot higher because of a lot more truck traffic compared to train traffic.
4. A lot of infrastructure cost probably not figured into that projected fuel savings cost.
5. Administrative cost for billing.
6. Risk of a random tall load contacting the catenary.
7. Risk of catenary damage when truck swerves.
8. Truck traffic stops when the power goes out.

All of which can be solved with the normal liberal pixie dust.
 

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Instead of swapping batteries, just electrify the highways and recharge on the fly.

View attachment 268278


The trucks are ready to go. Just need a highway with catenary lines to put 'em on.

View attachment 268279
I remember this...in the amusement park...BUMPER CARS!!
Also, had these in downtown Cleveland way back in the day...50's for sure and probably older...loved the sparks!

And for a little more money, we can add fake exhaust pipes up each side of the cab that, with a push of uh da button...big black diesel soot explodes into the air...to show off your penis size...a win-win!!
 

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Instead of swapping batteries, just electrify the highways and recharge on the fly.

View attachment 268278


The trucks are ready to go. Just need a highway with catenary lines to put 'em on.

View attachment 268279
The more things change the more they stay the same:
1658455898557.png
1658455922818.png
1658455963498.png

1658456071032.png
Dayton, Ohio had some of these buses (Orange) running downtown when I was a kid.
 

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I rode those orange buses (in a different color) regularly as a kid, and later commuting to high school. Overall they worked pretty well. Their big limitation was they couldn't stray far from the wires. Couldn't go around a disabled vehicle for instance. Occasionally one of the electricity arms would pop off the wire and the driver would have to get out to fix it. There must be a reason or two they were all replaced with petrol powered busses.
 

Uglytruth

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I rode those orange buses (in a different color) regularly as a kid, and later commuting to high school. Overall they worked pretty well. Their big limitation was they couldn't stray far from the wires. Couldn't go around a disabled vehicle for instance. Occasionally one of the electricity arms would pop off the wire and the driver would have to get out to fix it. There must be a reason or two they were all replaced with petrol powered busses.
Auto companies bought them and closed them down to force people to buy cars.
 

gnome

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BYD bus already using wireless charging tech and saving Wenatchee $$.