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Proof electric vehicle tech not viable

Joe King

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There wouldn't be a loss.

Eventually, free hydrogen would bond with some other molecule - most likely oxygen
Would it? When water is broken down and the H & O are collected in the same container, they do not automatically recombine. They stay happily separeted. It takes an ignition source to initiate the reaction causing them to form water.

Same with CO2 when burning wood. It takes a sufficient level of heat (ie: energy) to cause the carbon to join with O2.
There is no chemical loss of any significance on Earf. Biggest loss of elements, is
In space where loose H and He in the atmosphere end up.


But no matter is lost, in any reaction.
Agreed.
...but if every atom of H is not rejoined with O to form water during combustion, and the unburned H does in fact float away to space, (or even just to the top of the atmosphere) there is no way to get it back.

Then you also have the issue of containing and or pipelining it. H is very small and can find the tiniest of holes to leak of of.
So I guess @Buck may be on to something.


Except for a small amount of leaking hydrogen, which also is not harmful. Unless it's in a closed space with a pilot light somewhere.
At which point it would combust into water.
...but any leaking would immediately rise and try to get away. The really dangerous gases are the ones heavy ones that accumulate in low areas.
 

Casey Jones

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Scientists and engineers have used hydrogen for centuries. Before even it was understood how to capture helium. Remember the Hindenburg? German airships used hydrogen; and somehow, out of all that cracking of water, we didn't wind up short any.

I don't know the environmental action, exactly; but I'm not going to learn it online. There is no science online, anymore; just Junk Science to support the Daily Narrative.

But the issue remains: Scientists and technicians have had hydrogen available all along. What state it sits in, when liberated, I don't know; but it's never been, and won't be, an environmental crisis.

What it WILL be, is another Panic Campaign for the Luddites, who want us all reduced to hunter-gatherers. Once they outlaw motorized tractors, they'll try to ban draft animals. What they REALLY want, is everyone DEAD, but THEM.

Except they don't really want that, either...because then the pencil-necks have to do the hard work that the self-sufficient now do.
 

Buck

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So what do you think happens to it? It has to go somewhere. What other atmospheric atom would it bond with?
it certainly doesn't recombine and turn back into water...so, it does it's own thing
Everyone will be dead by the time we run out of water completely.
and that's the caveat..give us a time frame when this will occur?

see below for the reason i ask...V V
Scientists and engineers have used hydrogen for centuries. Before even it was understood how to capture helium. Remember the Hindenburg? German airships used hydrogen; and somehow, out of all that cracking of water, we didn't wind up short an
it's proportional

if we're building infrastructure where every ten miles we're installing an electrolysis device, that's called scaling with no regard for the materials, as long as they're cheap or we can find customers to pay for it...the manufacturers really don't care either - in fact, they're so ingrained with their abuse of natural resources, they're able to create additional lingo to ensure we give up some of ours so they can make it more of theirs


...give us a time frame as this industry is just ramping up



you know, i've pursued this solely for fun and have uncovered so much more...i've offered it up here for your absorption


but since i'm not doing the problem any justice, it would seem, i'm going to simply take the opposite approach, i'm going to start investigating what can be done with hydrogen and electrolysis of water...if there's any way i can jump on board, i'm going to diminish this combination as fast as i can and if i can do it for profit, even better


fk it, i'm on board: Separate It All, then burn the rest to the ground as there won't be any water to put it out, this will be EPIC


and since we didn't build it, i'd like to invite everyone here on board to come to california, as we may see the last molecule allowed for southern california lawns, get refused delivery to that homeowner, because some ceo needs to get to work in the morning...there goes my cup of coffee tomorrow morning


Corporate America!


:summer:
 

Joe King

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it certainly doesn't recombine and turn back into water...so, it does it's own thing
Whatever burns, does in fact recombine. If you break water and collect the now loose H & O into a container and then make a spark inside that container, the H & O will in fact recombine into the same amount of water you started with.


and that's the caveat..give us a time frame when this will occur?
A looong f'ing time.

Per my calculations, if we were to use water at the same rate we use oil and ALL of the water was 100% lost, we would run out of ocean water in 107 million years.
....but the losses won't be anywhere close to 100%, so you could at least double the amount of time. Probably triple, or more.
 

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Toyota's ALL NEW Hydrogen Engine SHOCKS The Entire Car Industry!​

 

Joe King

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This is interesting.

The Lightyear 0 Is The Game-Changer We've Been Waiting For



In a long-awaited UK exclusive, Jack drives the virtually production-ready Lightyear 0 - a vehicle like no other. Adorned by 5 square metres of Solar panels and boasting a hyper-efficient powertrain, could this remarkable EV trigger a much needed rethink in how we design electric cars?

00:00 A very Spanish intro
2:10 What is it?
5:06 Stat attack
7:43 First drive
10:00 Why does efficiency matter?
11:02 We almost got arrested
12:30 The REAL efficiency figure
13:01 How they did it
14:20 The party trick
16:20 The longest coast
17:22 More efficiency tricks
19:01 Concluding thoughts
?
 

DodgebyDave

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Buck

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Whatever burns, does in fact recombine. If you break water and collect the now loose H & O into a container and then make a spark inside that container, the H & O will in fact recombine into the same amount of water you started with.
yep, perpetual motion is real too

:summer:



1659241992439.png



here, i'm putting together a team, she's a good fit...i believe we'll be able to separate those bound molecules and set them free by the hundreds of gallons per hour in a few more days

perhaps in a short time i can light a doobie and it'll all recombine and give us some much needed rain here in dry southern california where it's more valuable to run our cars than it is to feed the children, er, water our plants...yeah, that's the ticket, i can get all the water i need from Nestle's and their infamous plastic bottles

(i wonder if i begin now, will any of my bottles i'll toss into lakes streams and rivers ever end up in the middle of the pacific...or maybe...it'll hit a dry patch and remain stranded for a century or more and future people will find it and say: How Did They Make That...but it won't be from the aliens, it'll be from Nestle and our use of water as a motor vehicle fuel)

:ponder:

locally, though, we're scaling the operation now...

and i'm being hailed now by one of my assistants...gotta go

:Happy:
 

Buck

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simply remove the sides and whenever that happens, the entire buss will be an exit


:summer:

but i believe i'm repeating myself

:weed:
 

Uglytruth

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viking

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This is what gets me. I know of no regulations for parking/charging an EV in your attached garage. But if you have storage lithium batteries, yep, many jurisdictions have codes you must follow.

Most EVs use the NCM batteries, whereas home storage batteries are becoming mostly LFP batteries, which are much safer. In addition, storage batteries are in a constant temperature and vibration free environment.
 

Uglytruth

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This is what gets me. I know of no regulations for parking/charging an EV in your attached garage. But if you have storage lithium batteries, yep, many jurisdictions have codes you must follow.

Most EVs use the NCM batteries, whereas home storage batteries are becoming mostly LFP batteries, which are much safer. In addition, storage batteries are in a constant temperature and vibration free environment.
Insurance companies charge extra for a fire place and or wood burning stove....... You know EV insurance will a factor. So the EV insurance costs will go up becasue they are more expensive & nothing left to repair......... and take out another car & part of your house....... if you live through it.
 

tigerwillow1

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I know of no regulations for parking/charging an EV in your attached garage.
I recently ran into something similar in the political, not technical, sense. I've been trying to decipher NEC article 840 to run a buried ethernet line. It has all sorts of details, then at the end has an exception that says utilities can do anything they want to.
 

Uglytruth

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EV Maker Lucid Cuts Production Outlook in Half​

Luxury sedan maker cites supply-chain and logistical challenges as well as internal bottlenecks​

Rivian, Lucid, Lordstown, Canoo, Fisker: EV Startups’ Fight to Survive
Rivian, Lucid, Lordstown, Canoo, Fisker: EV Startups’ Fight to Survive

Rivian, Lucid, Lordstown, Canoo, Fisker: EV Startups’ Fight to SurvivePlay video: Rivian, Lucid, Lordstown, Canoo, Fisker: EV Startups’ Fight to Survive
Electric-vehicle startups such as Lucid, Fisker, Canoo and Lordstown are having to adjust to the realities of making vehicles in a harsh economy. WSJ’s George Downs explains some of the challenges they are facing and why some even risk going out of business. Photo composite: George Downs
By Sean McLain
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and Ryan Felton
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Updated Aug. 4, 2022 6:30 am ET

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Electric-vehicle maker Lucid Group Inc. LCID -9.73%▼ said it expected to make half as many cars as previously forecast this year, citing supply-chain and logistical challenges that have troubled the wider auto industry as well as the company’s own problems.
The California-based company on Wednesday slashed its 2022 production target for the second time this year. Lucid now projects making between 6,000 and 7,000 vehicles. It first lowered a previous estimate of 20,000 vehicles to between 12,000 and 14,000 in February.
“This quarter has proven to be a very challenging period, and whilst we have experienced supply chain and logistics challenges along with the entire industry, the limitations of our logistics systems have compounded the challenge,” Chief Executive Peter Rawlinson said.
He said supply-chain issues and infrastructure upgrades contributed to two-and-a-half weeks in which the company had no daily production at its Arizona factory. He said the company had identified internal bottlenecks and was working to alleviate them.

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Shares of Lucid fell nearly 13% in premarket trading Thursday. Before the updated guidance, the stock had fallen 46% in 2022.
Lucid and other EV makers have faced increasing competition, rising prices and supply logjams. A wave of battery-powered vehicles, from startups including Vietnam’s VinFast to giants such as Toyota Motor Corp. and Volkswagen AG, are scheduled to hit showrooms in coming months. A quickly growing pool of consumers want to buy them, analysts and car makers say.
The challenge is turning a profit. Costs are rising for key components of EVs, including steel for vehicle bodies and lithium for batteries. And the global semiconductor shortage has resulted in factories running at less than full capacity while they await deliveries of computer chips.
Lucid said in May that it would raise the price of its sole vehicle, the Air sedan, to $87,000, citing rising raw material costs.
im-595040
Lucid, which makes the electric Air sedan, said its quarterly loss narrowed to $220 million despite the rising cost of supplies.PHOTO: RICHARD B. LEVINE/ZUMA PRESS
For the quarter ended in June, Lucid’s loss narrowed to $220 million from $261 million a year earlier, despite rising expenses. Lucid said it delivered 679 vehicles to customers during the quarter, compared with 360 vehicles in the first quarter.
With investor appetite for nascent EV companies waning, these businesses are conserving cash. Electric pickup truck and SUV maker Rivian Automotive Inc., laid off 6% of its workforce last week, saying it wanted to ensure it can hit its production targets without raising more cash.
Lucid said it had $4.6 billion in cash on hand, compared with $5.4 billion as of March 31, which the company said would allow the company to continue operations into 2023. Revenue for the quarter grew to $97 million, from $174,000 a year earlier.

Lucid faces a bevy of competitors from luxury car makers including Mercedes-Benz and Tesla Inc.
Another rival, Fisker Inc., said Wednesday that its second-quarter net loss rose to $106 million, compared with $46 million last year. Fisker said it has more than $850 million in cash and equivalents on hand, down from $1.2 billion at the start of the year.
Fisker plans to begin producing its first product, the Ocean SUV, in November. The company said it had 5,000 preorders of the Ocean initial offering, which costs $69,000. More than 56,000 people total have reserved the SUV, Fisker said, up from 45,000 at the end of the first quarter.
Fisker said it also had 4,000 reservations for a crossover SUV with a base price below $30,000. It expects to begin producing the cheaper vehicle by 2024 as part of a partnership with Taiwanese contract manufacturer Foxconn Technology Group.
Fisker’s stock this year has slid nearly 38% through Wednesday.
 

engineear

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EV Maker Lucid Cuts Production Outlook in Half​

Luxury sedan maker cites supply-chain and logistical challenges as well as internal bottlenecks​

Rivian, Lucid, Lordstown, Canoo, Fisker: EV Startups’ Fight to Survive
Rivian, Lucid, Lordstown, Canoo, Fisker: EV Startups’ Fight to Survive

Rivian, Lucid, Lordstown, Canoo, Fisker: EV Startups’ Fight to SurvivePlay video: Rivian, Lucid, Lordstown, Canoo, Fisker: EV Startups’ Fight to Survive
Electric-vehicle startups such as Lucid, Fisker, Canoo and Lordstown are having to adjust to the realities of making vehicles in a harsh economy. WSJ’s George Downs explains some of the challenges they are facing and why some even risk going out of business. Photo composite: George Downs
By Sean McLain
Follow

and Ryan Felton
Follow

Updated Aug. 4, 2022 6:30 am ET

PRINT
TEXT
Listen to article
Length(5 minutes)

Electric-vehicle maker Lucid Group Inc. LCID -9.73%▼ said it expected to make half as many cars as previously forecast this year, citing supply-chain and logistical challenges that have troubled the wider auto industry as well as the company’s own problems.
The California-based company on Wednesday slashed its 2022 production target for the second time this year. Lucid now projects making between 6,000 and 7,000 vehicles. It first lowered a previous estimate of 20,000 vehicles to between 12,000 and 14,000 in February.
“This quarter has proven to be a very challenging period, and whilst we have experienced supply chain and logistics challenges along with the entire industry, the limitations of our logistics systems have compounded the challenge,” Chief Executive Peter Rawlinson said.
He said supply-chain issues and infrastructure upgrades contributed to two-and-a-half weeks in which the company had no daily production at its Arizona factory. He said the company had identified internal bottlenecks and was working to alleviate them.

NEWSLETTER SIGN-UP​

The 10-Point.​

A personal, guided tour to the best scoops and stories every day in The Wall Street Journal.
PREVIEW

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Shares of Lucid fell nearly 13% in premarket trading Thursday. Before the updated guidance, the stock had fallen 46% in 2022.
Lucid and other EV makers have faced increasing competition, rising prices and supply logjams. A wave of battery-powered vehicles, from startups including Vietnam’s VinFast to giants such as Toyota Motor Corp. and Volkswagen AG, are scheduled to hit showrooms in coming months. A quickly growing pool of consumers want to buy them, analysts and car makers say.
The challenge is turning a profit. Costs are rising for key components of EVs, including steel for vehicle bodies and lithium for batteries. And the global semiconductor shortage has resulted in factories running at less than full capacity while they await deliveries of computer chips.
Lucid said in May that it would raise the price of its sole vehicle, the Air sedan, to $87,000, citing rising raw material costs.
im-595040
Lucid, which makes the electric Air sedan, said its quarterly loss narrowed to $220 million despite the rising cost of supplies.PHOTO: RICHARD B. LEVINE/ZUMA PRESS
For the quarter ended in June, Lucid’s loss narrowed to $220 million from $261 million a year earlier, despite rising expenses. Lucid said it delivered 679 vehicles to customers during the quarter, compared with 360 vehicles in the first quarter.
With investor appetite for nascent EV companies waning, these businesses are conserving cash. Electric pickup truck and SUV maker Rivian Automotive Inc., laid off 6% of its workforce last week, saying it wanted to ensure it can hit its production targets without raising more cash.
Lucid said it had $4.6 billion in cash on hand, compared with $5.4 billion as of March 31, which the company said would allow the company to continue operations into 2023. Revenue for the quarter grew to $97 million, from $174,000 a year earlier.

Lucid faces a bevy of competitors from luxury car makers including Mercedes-Benz and Tesla Inc.
Another rival, Fisker Inc., said Wednesday that its second-quarter net loss rose to $106 million, compared with $46 million last year. Fisker said it has more than $850 million in cash and equivalents on hand, down from $1.2 billion at the start of the year.
Fisker plans to begin producing its first product, the Ocean SUV, in November. The company said it had 5,000 preorders of the Ocean initial offering, which costs $69,000. More than 56,000 people total have reserved the SUV, Fisker said, up from 45,000 at the end of the first quarter.
Fisker said it also had 4,000 reservations for a crossover SUV with a base price below $30,000. It expects to begin producing the cheaper vehicle by 2024 as part of a partnership with Taiwanese contract manufacturer Foxconn Technology Group.
Fisker’s stock this year has slid nearly 38% through Wednesday.
Saw one of these a few days ago....
 

Buck

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Buck

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Saw one of these a few days ago....
i hope you took a photo...cause: They're Gone...well, almost

it's amazing how some turd world country is giving our top tech companies a run for their money because they can scale a pile of shit faster than our quality builders can get a handful off the assembly line...amazing how far we've fallen

or possibly how much of a confidence game this has actually been over the last ten years with as to how it's gelled...how it's matured as an industry


it all still feels like it's nothing but a confidence game with an over powered luxury golf car as the prize....

oh, and hope...a lot of hope...

hope the damn thing don't burn up in your garage.? idk...maybe

:summer: