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Public Money

TomD

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#1
Although I'm theoretically retired, I still help out when needed. I don't mind the cash but I've found I really need the involvement, but that's another topic.

Today, I finished putting together a bid package for a public entity project, a 2-story press box building + a combo restroom and concession stand at a City of Pensacola sports park along with associated site work.

The combo restroom and concession building design brought me to the point of open laughter several times. How do you take a 24 x 60 single story slab on grade building and detail it to the point that it prices out at over $600,000? It ain't easy! But it's possible if you try, really hard!! Detail after detail after spec after spec of ridiculous excess.

If it had been for you or me, we probably could have settled for an 8" concrete block exterior, split faced if we wanted to be fancy. How about this: starting with interior face: epoxy paint-plaster-durock-furring strips-concrete and rebar filled 8" concrete block-liquid membrane water proofing-5'' poly iso insulation board, adhesive rubber waterproofing system, 4'' split faced concrete block-epoxy paint.

The plumbing alone approaches $90K with all the absolute top line Kohler wall hung toilets and urinals.

I would love to have a house built to that spec, it would last 1000 years but who in the hell could afford it.

Specs like this have their place, I been building stuff like this for decades but this is a snack bar in a public park in a run down section. It could be built for a small fraction of the cost but it's government money and how the hell cares?.
 

Voodoo

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That's why they never have any money for the roads. Because by the time anyone ever quotes anything they might as well paved it in gold, and it would probably last about as long as a gold road would as well.

Clearly the bidder thought they had normal g-men grant money and not a proposed donor.
 

Voodoo

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And the City will come back and claim that's the only way it will meet "Code". One giant scam. Round and round we go.
 

Buck

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#5
how about just get 'em one of these and simply Charge Them $600,000

1614033329655.png


then spread some of the change around...and then deny having anything left over...


that happens all the time
 

Buck

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#6
want a bathroom?

Plant a tree :piss
 

<SLV>

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#8
Only those who earn money through work truly appreciate the value of money and strive to limit its expenditure. Government does not earn its money.
 

Fatrat

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#9
Somebodies brother in law is getting the job...
 

TomD

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Somebodies brother in law is getting the job...
Actually, around here, it won't be like that. There's a strict bidding process with all bids read aloud in public and with bonds and pre-qualifications. I also do a lot of military and FDOT work and they mostly keep a lid on bid shenanigans.
 

TomD

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#11
want a bathroom?

Plant a tree :piss
Who needs a tree? Sand, grass, ant hills all suffice.

My wife (#2) was in her 40's when we met and, to this day, she swears she never met a man before me who would pee outside if there was an indoor toilet available within 100 yards or so! I live on acreage with lots of trees around and lots more trees before you get to other human habitation. I can go out back and let loose with an AR when I want. So, hell yeah, I piss where I want and she freaks! She stares at me in disbelief and says, "why don't you go inside?" And I stare at her in disbelief.
 

hammerhead

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Who needs a tree? Sand, grass, ant hills all suffice.

My wife (#2) was in her 40's when we met and, to this day, she swears she never met a man before me who would pee outside if there was an indoor toilet available within 100 yards or so! I live on acreage with lots of trees around and lots more trees before you get to other human habitation. I can go out back and let loose with an AR when I want. So, hell yeah, I piss where I want and she freaks! She stares at me in disbelief and says, "why don't you go inside?" And I stare at her in disbelief.
She's just jealous.
 

gringott

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#14
Who was the architect? Nephew of the Mayor perhaps?
 

D-FENZ

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#15
Who was the architect? Nephew of the Mayor perhaps?
Architects work on a percentage basis so they have every incentive to spec the expensive stuff. I run into that all the time. They will do things like spec toilets that to the common person are indistinguishable from one 25% of the cost. Kohler can make 100,000 standard toilets and sell them for $150 a copy, but one that only sells 100 units will have to sell for $650 for them to make any money. Even though there is little difference between the two. Economies of scale.

Now say you're an architect working on a percentage basis. What are you specifying?
 
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#17
Who needs a tree? Sand, grass, ant hills all suffice.

My wife (#2) was in her 40's when we met and, to this day, she swears she never met a man before me who would pee outside if there was an indoor toilet available within 100 yards or so! I live on acreage with lots of trees around and lots more trees before you get to other human habitation. I can go out back and let loose with an AR when I want. So, hell yeah, I piss where I want and she freaks! She stares at me in disbelief and says, "why don't you go inside?" And I stare at her in disbelief.


My grandson who was about 4 at the time came to stay with with me for a week or so. I lived on a small horse farm at the time. While we were outside messing around with the horses he declared that he needed to go back to the house to pee. I told him to pick a tree that they depended on us to water them. A few days after he returned home my daughter who lives in a Ormond Beach subdivision called me. She said my grandson had gotten up from watching TV to go out in the front yard and water a tree "cause Grampa said we have to water them".
 

Silver

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#18
Are the 17" thick walls for hurricanes?
 

Fatrat

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#19
For the cost of that building, it better be.
 
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Buck

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#20
My grandson who was about 4 at the time came to stay with with me for a week or so. I lived on a small horse farm at the time. While we were outside messing around with the horses he declared that he needed to go back to the house to pee. I told him to pick a tree that they depended on us to water them. A few days after he returned home my daughter who lives in a Ormond Beach subdivision called me. She said my grandson had gotten up from watching TV to go out in the front yard and water a tree "cause Grampa said we have to water them".
very similar story here, although it was my son, learned to pee in a stream and on a tree, some rocks, kinda wild streaming it but, i had to do it...it was so, i gotta say cute, but funny was the first word comes to my mind

:dduck:
 

the_shootist

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#21
very similar story here, although it was my son, learned to pee in a stream and on a tree, some rocks, kinda wild streaming it but, i had to do it...it was so, i gotta say cute, but funny was the first word comes to my mind

:dduck:
Oh how I wish I could still pee in a stream without medication!!

:piss
 

Buck

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#22
oh my


LOL, as long as you're not wild-streaming
 

ttazzman

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Architects work on a percentage basis so they have every incentive to spec the expensive stuff. I run into that all the time. They will do things like spec toilets that to the common person are indistinguishable from one 25% of the cost. Kohler can make 100,000 standard toilets and sell them for $150 a copy, but one that only sells 100 units will have to sell for $650 for them to make any money. Even though there is little difference between the two. Economies of scale.

Now say you're an architect working on a percentage basis. What are you specifying?
and the architect doesnt care if it goes out of budget because he gets paid anyway........and many times his contract administration is also included in the fee so if it goes out of budget and gets canceled or reworked (at a additional fee) he either saves the contract administration time or gets the rework fees ........

some of the issues with government funded construction work that drive up costs are.........LEEDs compliance (green construction and material source tracking) .......Prevailing wage laws..........Diversity compliance.......Bid advantages for Women and Minority owned companies ......in addition to over spec'ing etc.....

I retired from this mess 10 yrs ago there is no telling how bad it is now and what has changed to the worse
 

the_shootist

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