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Pulling a well pump without an expensive contractor's rig !

M

minimus

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#1
Larry took a winch from a large boat trailer, did a little welding, and now can easily pull a pump out of a well with the turn of a handle!


 
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Goldhedge

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#2
So, tell me, how did he get the rope to the pump?

Or is that attached when they first lower it for service later?
 

GoldWampum

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#3
I wondered the same thing. Pulled a hundred and eighty footer through a hole cut in the roof of a wellhouse once (son and I) with a come along. Using half inch rope, the real stuff btw, and choking the pipe with a spiral sleeve of the rope. Slipping it as we went. It was a job.
 

TnAndy

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#4
Neighbor and I made a lightweight pole deal that quick attaches to his Bobcat or my tractor front loader, that in combination with a small electric winch, we use to pull pumps. He has about 6 wells on various places, and I had 4 at one time ( down to 2 now ), so along with doing it for other neighbors, it was worth us building a little rig.

We don't pull here using ropes....a rope can get snagged down the well, or skinned/cut on point where the well casing enters bedrock, or other places and "ka-pop" disappear down the hole, pump, pipe and all. Best a rope should be used for is a backup incase you happen to loose clamp on the pipe as you pull it.

To pull using the pipe, we made a little adapter of the same size as the diameter of the pipe...use a metal coupling and weld a pc of round bar over one end to make a loop, then you click the winch hook on the loop....pull up 20', clamp a pipe vice on the next section top down the hole, let it set back on the well casing so the vice is holding the rest down the hole, and unscrew the 20' you have up in the air....let it down, switch the adapter to the pipe down the hole and repeat until you have the pump up.
 

shades

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#5
Why does every Youtube video need incredibly annoying music? In this case out of rhythm drumming, and accompanying annoying instrumental?
 

Eat Beef

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#7
We pulled a 4" submersible with 220 foot of 1 3/4" pvc line one time, it was a chore. We used a stock trailer as an overhead frame from which to pull with a 3/4 ton chain come a long, and a pipe vice to use as a stop.

We cut the pvc with a chainsaw every other pull, this both lightened the lift weight and did away with the overhead pipe. It took about a half day, but it was well worth it to save that expensive pump. They paved over the well, it's probably under someone's bedroom now!
 

Goldhedge

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#8
Why do they put music on videos? So we can use the mute button once in a while? ;-)


Why do they put the pump at the bottom and not the top?

Does it have to do with priming? as in the old hand pumps?
 

TnAndy

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#9
Because there is a limit as to how much a pump can pull up versus the amount it can push up.....those are called "shallow well" pumps, and are limited to 100' or so ( maybe bit more ). Once you get down in the 300+ range, they are all pretty much submersible type.

AND if you ever have anything to do with a submersible type and aren't familar with them, make SURE you use a "3 wire" pump. On a 2 wire, the start capcitor is built on the pump....which means if you lose that capacitor to something like a lightning strike ( which is common ), you have to pull the pump and reinstall down the hole to replace it.

On a 3 wire pump, the pump motor capacitor is in a box on the surface (usually near your pressure tank..Franklin Electric it should say...they make all the starter boxes in the US if I recall ), and you can replace it easy w/o pulling the pump.
 

GoldWampum

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#10
3 wire is well worth it.
 
M

minimus

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#11
A 2 wire has no start capacitor, it has a centrifugal switch sealed in the pump that drops out the start winding after motor speed is established. A 3 wire has a start capacitor and potential relay in an above ground box between the pressure switch and the pump head. Some 3 wire pumps even have a run capacitor. The 3 wire has more starting torque to bust any hard water deposits in the pump. I have restarted a stuck 2 wire (tripped circuit breaker but good motor windings) with a super-boost (a two wire start capacitor/PTC relay kit).

The video is a cable winch, the thing that looks like a rope is the power cable for the pump motor. They are not pulling the pump by the power cable, the winch is doing the job. The only thing I'm wondering about is what on the winch cable grips the pipe .... prolly a larger diameter coupling with cable hooked at the bottom to cock sideways when pulled and that grips the pump pipe. Anyone else got a theory how it slides down the pipe and grips on the pull ?

BTW, most well heads have a pitless adapter that is either 3/4 or 1 inch FPT, all you need is a section of pipe to screw into the adapter to start pulling the pump.
 
M

minimus

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#12
2 Wire vs 3 Wire well pumps, Franklin Motor company


3-wire prose and cons

Pro-

Capacitor start assures starts under severe circumstances, such as an excessively deep well, or excessice static head. More torque is provided at the motor for hard to start situations
Capacitor run assures smoother running, lower current and lower running temp
All starting components are located above ground, and though the potential for failure is greater, the components can be easily and cheaply accessed and repaired or replaced
General electrical consumption can be lower, or greater, depending on depth of well and distance from pump to controller
Cable requires an extra supply lead, but the cable can be lighter in guage

Cons-

capacitors can and do fail as time weakens the internal construction of these devices
Relay is not sealed from atmospheric pressure, hence contacts can oxidize from repeated arcing
Cable requires an extra supply lead, and though the cable can be lighter in guage, the weight is 1/4 to 1/3 more, and the added expense can be much greater
Under residential useage and average installations, starting current consumption may actually be higher due to required setbacks and distance of control box from well

2-wire pros and cons

pros-

Starting components are all located within the hermatically sealed stator housing of the motor
Installation is much simpler
No potential start relay to fail or complicate day to day operation
No capacitors are used except in some limited designs, and where used, sealed components provide extra protection so the potential for failure of these components may be reduced greatly or may not exist alltogether
Internal starting switch is sealed from any contact with oxygen so arcing from normal use will not cause contacts to oxidize and fail
Internal starting switch and lack of one way capacitors can provide pulsed starting torque to prevent motor jambing due to sand mud or other restrictions
Cable is simpler, lighter, and economical to purchase and to instal
Motor starts softer, decreasing shock loading of pump components

Cons

If starting components fail (highly unlikely) motor must be pulled and replaced
Requires a better eye and closer tolerance for resistance measurements
Lower starting torque under severe static head. this is the reason that higher horsepower pumps are currently 3 wire
Operating temp of motor is slightly higher but this should not apply except under abusive circumstances
 

ttazzman

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#13
any of you guys have a home grown way to drill shallow wells??? I need to put in a shallow well that i cant get a drill rig to unless i build a road, i can get my stuff to the site...tractors...backhoes...dozers...skidsteers..etc.
 

Lt Dan

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#14
any of you guys have a home grown way to drill shallow wells??? I need to put in a shallow well that i cant get a drill rig to unless i build a road, i can get my stuff to the site...tractors...backhoes...dozers...skidsteers..etc.
Deep Rock link This is the rig I want to buy for drilling some wells around the place.

On a side note. For a well less than a 100 feet, I recommend a 2-wire pump. I had one in a well for over 20 years, never had a problem, it may still be in the well as I no longer own that property. Moisture in the well pit might have caused problems with the start relay/capacitor in the 3-wire system. Your application may not be the same as what I had.
 

ttazzman

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#15
Deep Rock link This is the rig I want to buy for drilling some wells around the place.

On a side note. For a well less than a 100 feet, I recommend a 2-wire pump. I had one in a well for over 20 years, never had a problem, it may still be in the well as I no longer own that property. Moisture in the well pit might have caused problems with the start relay/capacitor in the 3-wire system. Your application may not be the same as what I had.
have you priced one of their units yet?
 
M

minimus

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#16
For a well less than a 100 feet, I recommend a 2-wire pump. I had one in a well for over 20 years, never had a problem, it may still be in the well as I no longer own that property. Moisture in the well pit might have caused problems with the start relay/capacitor in the 3-wire system. Your application may not be the same as what I had.
A 220 volt 2-wire pump for deeper, mine is set at 225 feet in a 300 footer, hit water at 100 foot.



Its only 3/4 hp but it works and I don't have to worry about a start or run capacitor blown that burns out the pumps start or run windings. Its the blown capacitors that burn out the pump windings in the 3-wire pump. I've repaired several air conditioner compressor condensing units because a storm caused a line spike the blows out the capacitor's internal dielectric shielding. An air conditioner compressor and a 3-wire well pump have the same type motor.

For example, a 300 mfd start capacitor will have a dielectric resistance of 370 or 440 volts, that's it. A line spike higher than that blows a hole in the shielding and the capacitor shorts out (it literally expands). Most start capacitors even have a vent plug that blows out when this happens. A run capacitor's top (where electrical connections are) will dome out indicating its blown up.

If your lucky the pump will trip the circuit breaker, if not it might trip out on internal thermal overloads within the pump. If it continues to try restarting it will eventually burn up the windings or the internal thermal overload will weaken and not reset.

Another bad note on 3-wire pumps, the start relay can get stuck and hang-up burning out the start winding. Its a normally closed relay that opens after the voltage picks up (after the motor is up to speed). I recommend replacing the starter package on a 3-wire well pump every few years. Its worth the cost.



Last not not least, the primary reason well pumps fail is the expansion tank looses its air charge, this short cycles the pump motor and eventually burns up the well pump.


mm
 
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Lt Dan

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#17
have you priced one of their units yet?
Yes I have, but I'd have to look it up. I just emailed them and got the info right back within hours. The price is not to bad if you have more than one well to drill. I'd say one man can handle the chore, but it works better with two. I helped my father-in-law drill a well with the cheapest model they make about 25 years ago. We went down 23' and I put a shallow well pump on it and measured 6 gal/per minute with that pump. I have no idea how much the well would actually have supplied. We used the well to water gardens with and pumped 24/7 in the hottest, driest time of the summer. Well casing was only 2" size for that rig.

The rig I'm looking at is the HD2001 the price I looked up is $1348 +shipping, double that for well casing etc. to drill a completed well. Pumps and piping extra.
 

elroy

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#18
Like with all projects, it looks easy. But in actual practice may not be so.

A few years ago our well pump started leaking oil so we decided to pull it ourselves.

Short version of a long story is that the well guy had to be called and he couldn't get the pump out with his truck mounted rig. The pump was rusted/seized inside the casing. It hadn't been moved in 20+ years.

We poured about 10 gallons of acid into the well and waited 24 hours. The well rig still couldn't move the pump, even pulled the front wheels of the truck off the ground and bounced up and down. The well guy was afraid he would pull the pump in half.

Finally in one final last ditch effort it broke loose. You just never know what you're getting into when you start something like this.
 
M

minimus

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#19
Man, that's some hard water you have there.

I fire up my old well, it was a two wire. I saw that it ohm'ed out good at 5 ohms, and not shorted to ground. I momentary hit it with 120 volts and saw it drew locked rotor amps. I hit it again with 220 and it started up drawing about 7 amps. I let it run seeing it was low amps in the 3/4 hp range with good flow. After a few minutes it started drawing muddy water, amps dropped, volume dropped real bad, I was worried it was sucking dry but no air so I let it run. After several minutes it started clearing up and increasing flow, amps increased to 7 again. I then bumped it on and off a few times shaking loose the silt, muddy water again but this time with big flow increase, amps up to 9. I let it run for a couple hours. Amps settled down to 7 and it cleared up nicely. Most of the wells around here are in the 300 ft range with the water table at 100 ft. Pumps are set at 250. The well is about 25 years old.

I'm on county water so the well will be used for watering the garden and emergency drinking water (after it goes thru the purifier).

I'm hoping to one day afford a SolarJack pump just for this well. Drilled deep water wells are very expensive around here, in the 6 to 10 k range.

Interesting enough, I paid about as much for the land as a well would cost.



mm
 
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