Remember Liberty Dollar? Now Liberty Financial Services; intertwining with paypal....... Etc.

[TonyG]

Has it been 10 years since we last talked about Liberty dollar? Probably close.!

Bernard Nothause went to jail for something like six months, then was put on probation.

Members of liberty dollar filed suit to get there gold returned and those who had significant gold reserves within the program likely got there gold and silver back. I maybe had $20 or $30 in silver certificates and never pursued any return.

However, I kept up with them on Facebook page and occasionally searched for any new information.

About 9 months ago I saw some discussion on the Facebook page about they're coming out under New Management and under new title of liberty dollar financial services.

I don't know if the goal is to strike rounds or paper Warehouse certificates again, but they have found support from PayPal and possibly a major credit card company, not sure about the second point.

They claim to have the only system which allows you to store your value in gold and readily pay for items over the Internet through PayPal and obtain Warehouse certificates for real gold. At least that's my understanding that's far.

There are fees and there is a referral system, but I don't see the same multi-level marketing system that was previously used. Maybe more information on there Facebook page.

Without my further confusing the data, here is their new website. It's off to a slow start but I think that is expected.

Links

Liberty financial services
Liberty dollar net

 

[AurumAg]

Hi TonyG,

So, it took 9 years, 11 months and 17 days for the return of (some) of my silver that was confiscated by the FBI on 14November2007.

I had a combination of warehouse receipts (silver certificates) and eLD (Electronic Liberty Dollars), all of which I had accounted for.

I was an RCO, and my business was quite good prior to the raid, mostly arranging bulk order when the PMs were low-spot, and delivering physical PMs to my customer base.

I almost said "loyal customer base," but that all came to an end when the feds raided us. I don't blame them for fleeing.

All of my outstanding orders for physical Ag were kept by the feds, even though I argued to the court that they could be melted down, smashed or otherwise rendered non-LDs.

BvNH was indeed convicted of counterfeiting, and never spent any time behind bars, but was on house arrest for over 3 years, followed by another 3 years of probation. Kevin Innes was the only one jailed, on an unrelated immigration violation, for over a year, and his incarceration was intended to get him to flip on BvNH, but he held out.

The new LD product is essentially the same as the eLD, which along with the certificates, the feds never even bothered to mention in any of their criminal proceedings.

Although I did have a significant amount of eLD, all of which was returned, I have not joined the new offering, because as was proven the first time, the feds can confiscate your property for almost ten years, and I am not taking that risk again.

I also vowed never to again associate with PayPal, as they colluded with IRS to empty my account.

After 13 years, I am still convinced that the raid, confiscation and conviction were ultimately fed tools to destroy the LD organization, and it worked.

 

[newmisty]

Welcome back Tony.

Thank you for the article

 

[TonyG]

I am wary of it also aurumag. They have some phone numbers listed I suppose someone could call them if they're interested. Im not in a position to use the service at the present time, but would want to talk over the details and have several questions before jumping in.

If a credit card company or a debit card company could be set up that a person could store physical gold in a virtual form on a credit card and have it redeemable in frns to make payments or purchase things, that would maybe work. I think that is the idea that they have but I also would be cautious of working with PayPal. PayPal isn't the only organization that collaborates with the IRS. All mutual fund companies with the exception of Franklin Templeton bent over for the IRS.

 

[TonyG]

Welcome back Tony.

Thank you for the article

Thank you nm. It's good to see familiar names. After interacting with Snoop,I remember some of the time-consuming discussions/arguments that along with several other issues had me step away for awhile. A person must also be cautious about putting their soul and life out in public.

 

[southfork]

Had two of the copper ones for sale on flea bay last week and they took them down..

 

[TonyG]

Had two of the copper ones for sale on flea bay last week and they took them down..

Really, wow. After 10 years they still aren't numismatic value?

 

[specsaregood]

I still have my Silver Ron Paul LD, but I never got my Copper ones. bastards.

 

[Voodoo]

I still have my Silver Ron Paul LD, but I never got my Copper ones. bastards.

I got some Copper Ones. Not really doing much but acting as a few heat sinks or paper weights on the desk.

 

[TonyG]

I still think they're doing it wrong. They are still valuing 1 oz silver to a fixed dollar amount. That eventually demands a reprinting of both the warehouse certificates and any silver rounds that they would produce.


Why not have Warehouse receipts that simply say 1 oz silver, 3 oz silver, 5 oz silver, 7 ounce silver, 10 oz silver!


They would be purchased for $1(or manufacturing cost). plus the spot silver or 30day moving avg plus 1 or 2%>

When presented for payment for an item or for barter, perhaps the trade price value would be the spot price or the 30-day moving average price which could be easily found on a app, which they are talking about.

They would already have to be considering making of any Warehouse receipts made under the thousand oaks or liberty financial services trade name.

It's a better concept than they had before but there are still some inefficiencies in the business plan.

They also a firm confidently that as commodity and consumable prices go up so will the price of silver {period} although it's quite likely, they make the statements as certainties.

 

[AurumAg]

I still have my Silver Ron Paul LD, but I never got my Copper ones. bastards.

Send me a PM.

The BEST return on investment I ever made in my life was the purchase of 200 RP SLDs.

I sold all but 1 one of them.

I was also one of the very few who actually received my entire RP CLD order of 1000 ounces.

I sold most of those, but the profit margin was nowhere near that of the RP SLD.

All the RP CLDs confiscated were returned to those who filed petitions with the court.

 

[AurumAg]

I need to add:

If not for Tom Power from Sunshine Minting and Judge Voorhees from the Northern District of North Carolina, none of us would likely have EVER seen the return of our confiscated PMs.

Post conviction; it was an unprecedented fed asset-forfeiture case from which literally hundreds of claimants actually realized the return of their property.

And almost 10 years later

They dropped a box on the front porch without any notification.

That was a nice surprise...

 

[TonyG]

I was an associate under rco? Frederick schrom out of Lancaster Pennsylvania.

I had gotten some ld rounds probably 40-50 Oz or so but at that time I could pick up 1 oz rounds in 100 oz for 5% over spot and sometimes at spot off of eBay. The coolest thing that schrom and I did was to talk Sunshine mint into minting us some 10 oz rounds in the liberty dollar strike. We may have had to get 500 or ounces in order to get that done. He claimed they were proof struck meaning struck times 3. And they had a mirror type finish. I think silver was around 16 bucks and we paid 18 and a half an ounce. We didn't split 50/50 so I think I got 18?; I don't remember anymore. And there may have been another person in the deal getting more.

They were in perforated plastic casing and the air got to them so they were starting to tarnish. I couldn't sell them for proof anymore. I gradually sold them out, one or two here three or four here etc. But I was selling them when silver was 35 to 40 an ounce. They were super nice and I wish I could have held on to them. They didn't have any denomination on them. I don't have any photos of them either. I guess that was during the time that I was away from the forum or I should have made some available here.

For those who are wondering this is what the Ron Paul Liberty dollar looks like. And the second round is the state initiative round that schrom and a few others had acquired a stamp for. We were working under a guy from chambersburg. I think he had the stamp and he was an elderly fella as can be seen by the toted stayed outline on the back of the 50 Oz round.

To turn back the hands of time would be interesting in many ways.

 

[TonyG]

Copper's

I think I had ordered a set of 20 Ron Paul's coppers, but also didn't receive any. There was just a few that got out wasn't there?

 

[AurumAg]

This was one of my first LD orders, when I was building the website for Liberty Dollar of San Jose:

 

[AurumAg]

We were working under a guy from chambersburg. I think he had the stamp and he was an elderly fella as can be seen by the toted stayed outline on the back of the 50 Oz round.

Are you referring to Bert Ollie?

He was a great guy! He and I shared a hotel room at LDU 7 in Asheville NC in 2005. He passed away over 10 years ago.

At least one of the undercover FBI agents was also there at Liberty Dollar University 7.

I think I had ordered a set of 20 Ron Paul's coppers, but also didn't receive any. There was just a few that got out wasn't there?

The first orders were shipped the day before the FBI raid via USPS flat-rate priority with no tracking, so once they were on the truck, they shipped.

I was shocked when my entire 1000 ounce RP CLD order arrived 3 days after the raid.

All the Ag orders from Sunshine Minting shipped UPS, and those orders were actually intercepted prior to delivery. None of that silver and gold was returned because it had a 2007 date.

Like I said, the confiscated Ron Paul CLDs were only returned to those who filed petitions with the court, because they were determined to be a form of political speech, and thus NOT contraband like everything else dated 2007.

We actually continued producing LDs in 2008 and 2009, using a non-disclosed mint, but the feds came down hard again on our production, and then only a very few "secret" mintings were done in 2010.

I survived selling on eBay until just before Christmas 2012, and then the SS and IRS shut me down for good.

Thus, I will NEVER use eBay or PayPal again.

 

[TonyG]

Are you referring to Bert Ollie?

He was a great guy! He and I shared a hotel room at LDU 7 in Asheville NC in 2005. He passed away over 10 years ago.

At least one of the undercover FBI agents was also there at Liberty Dollar University 7

Yes I think his name was Bert ollie. I only met him maybe twice. One time shram and I went down to the flea market type mall that he had a stand set up and several of the vendors were circulating some Liberty dollars at least. And I went to a pizza shop that was listed on the merchants list and I think he accepted half in LD and the other half needed to be cash. That was all right, but I could see that it wasn't as convertible and usable as what it appeared on the merchant list.

I attended one meeting where Bernard had attended in Chambersburg. They may have been rolling out a movie or documentary or maybe his book ? On second thought it may have been the roll out and reemphasis to community currency.


Anyhow, I found him personable and likable but almost naive or arrogant to the idea that what he was doing was borderline illega. He pushed and blurred the line of similitude of design to us coin over the line at least in my consideration of the matter. And he didn't have to do this for a community currency. I don't think I even bothered for an autograph thinking that we were all trying to do a cutting edge Reformation or education and we all were associates at some degree of risk in the program.

So overt was his borderline designs and model that I even had periods of suspicion that he may have been working in agreement with the feds in order to draw out people who may have patriotically felt a animosity towards the Federal reserve. But I kind of dismissed that suspicion.

Well not dwell on past laurels or previous activities. I guess I would like to hear more about this present model and see how it's going. Maybe I'll shoot the person in charge and email asking her to come on here and talk about things.

 

[AurumAg]

Anyhow, I found him personable and likable but almost naive or arrogant to the idea that what he was doing was borderline illega. He pushed and blurred the line of similitude of design to us coin over the line at least in my consideration of the matter. And he didn't have to do this for a community currency. I don't think I even bothered for an autograph thinking that we were all trying to do a cutting edge Reformation or education and we all were associates at some degree of risk in the program.

So overt was his borderline designs and model that I even had periods of suspicion that he may have been working in agreement with the feds in order to draw out people who may have patriotically felt a animosity towards the Federal reserve. But I kind of dismissed that suspicion.

Are we discussing Bernard, aka BvNH?

If so, yes he is arrogant, dogmatic, aggressive, charismatic and suspicious.

Bernard is also my dear friend, and he is all of the above, including brilliant.

BvNH not only engineered a competitive monetary system, but he actually proved that it could work.

I can also assure you that, although you may have suspected his motives, BvNH is NOT a fed.gov tool.

He is a Patriot, and if not for fed.gov intervention, the LD would be alive and well today.

Recall the axiom of catching flak over target.

I got involved because I had read G. Edward Griffin's "Creature from Jekyll Island."

Side note: The one and only time I saw Ron Paul speak, was also the only time I met G. Edward Griffin and exchanged an RP SLD for a signed copy of Creature, literally in the middle of the Google MTV campus and a full 6 years before I worked as a contractor for Google.

But the LD was infiltrated early on by DOJ, and of course, we know how that turned out.

DOJ had 1 single grievant for their case, and it was the Asheville pizza parlor owner who accepted a 1 TOz SLD with a $20 value.

How did DOJ find this grievant? FBI agents used an Asheville merchant list, visited alll the merchants, and convinced one of them to file a complaint.

At the time of the BvNH conviction (I was there in the courtroom at Statesville), that same SLD was worth a minimum of $36 (spot).

The prosecutor did not allow the jury to handle an actual SLD, confirming that the defense team had been compromised.

They did not want the jury to notice that the SLD had both a valid web address and toll-free phone number for ease of exchange back to FRNs (I personally moved TENS of THOUSANDS of ounces of SLDs, GLDs and CLDs, and only one time did anyone exchange an SLD for FRNs at my RCO).

Instead, the jury was provided poorly produced transparencies of US coinage via projector.

The jury spent literally 45 minutes deliberating on a Friday AM, and to this day, I conjecture that they spent 25 of those minutes deliberating about donut choices and fighting over the bathroom adjacent the jury room.

After the conviction, my father, a retire BAR attorney, turned to me and said, "Let's get the hell out of here."

We got in the rental car and drove straight to Asheville for some tourism; all of it paid for by DOJ because we were both witnesses served months earlier to testify as witnesses at the show-trial; Air-fare from California, hotel, meals and rental car. I think we only paid for tips and souvenirs.

 

[TonyG]

Are we discussing Bernard, aka BvNH?

If so, yes he is arrogant, dogmatic, aggressive, charismatic and suspicious.

Bernard is also my dear friend, and he is all of the above, including brilliant.

BvNH not only engineered a competitive monetary system, but he actually proved that it could work.

I can also assure you that, although you may have suspected his motives, BvNH is NOT a fed.gov tool.

He is a Patriot, and if not for fed.gov intervention, the LD would be alive and well today.

Recall the axiom of catching flak over target.

I got involved because I had read G. Edward Griffin's "Creature from Jekyll Island."

Side note: The one and only time I saw Ron Paul speak, was also the only time I met G. Edward Griffin and exchanged an RP SLD for a signed copy of Creature, literally in the middle of the Google MTV campus and a full 6 years before I worked as a contractor for Google.

But the LD was infiltrated early on by DOJ, and of course, we know how that turned out.

DOJ had 1 single grievant for their case, and it was the Asheville pizza parlor owner who accepted a 1 TOz SLD with a $20 value.

How did DOJ find this grievant? FBI agents used an Asheville merchant list, visited alll the merchants, and convinced one of them to file a complaint.

At the time of the BvNH conviction (I was there in the courtroom at Statesville), that same SLD was worth a minimum of $36 (spot).

The prosecutor did not allow the jury to handle an actual SLD, confirming that the defense team had been compromised.

They did not want the jury to notice that the SLD had both a valid web address and toll-free phone number for ease of exchange back to FRNs (I personally moved TENS of THOUSANDS of ounces of SLDs, GLDs and CLDs, and only one time did anyone exchange an SLD for FRNs at my RCO).

Instead, the jury was provided poorly produced transparencies of US coinage via projector.

The jury spent literally 45 minutes deliberating on a Friday AM, and to this day, I conjecture that they spent 25 of those minutes deliberating about donut choices and fighting over the bathroom adjacent the jury room.

After the conviction, my father, a retire BAR attorney, turned to me and said, "Let's get the hell out of here."

We got in the rental car and drove straight to Asheville for some tourism; all of it paid for by DOJ because we were both witnesses served months earlier to testify as witnesses at the show-trial; Air-fare from California, hotel, meals and rental car. I think we only paid for tips and souvenirs.

Thanks for the commentary, I followed some of the narratives about the trial and in particularly the quick flash of images that associated liberty dollar to US coinage. Yes it may have been different if they had been able to handle the round but that's not a surety.

But, the point of whether or not the liberty dollar round was worth $36 at the time of the trial isn't really the point of the prosecution at least not from what I understand. It was that a part of the code states that persons are not supposed to coin silver for use as currency. Whether that is right or wrong isn't the point as from what I gathered Bernard's advisors had misunderstood that specific part of the code.

Furthermore at the time the round was passed to the Asheville Pizza parlor it was likely at a spot value under $20.?

Above, where I referred to bvnh as arrogant I didn't intend the word to reflect an attitude of defiance against others and their opinions, but rather a confidence in it's legality and system..

 

[TonyG]

Looks like they have done away with denominated coinage.


Liberty Dollar Financial
LIBERTY DOLLARS

Liberty Dollars are warehouse receipts for silver bullion stored with Liberty Dollar Financial via its precious metals storage partners. A warehouse receipt is a document showing title to goods stored with, and a receipt issued by, a person engaged in the business of storing goods for a fee. Generally, a warehouse receipt is considered a document of title. A warehouse receipt that is made to "Bearer" is a negotiable instrument and is often used for financing by providing it as security for credit. In United States v. Hastings, 296 U.S. 188, 197 (U.S. 1935), it was stated that a warehouse receipt is of special importance and is issued by a warehouseman for products stored for interstate or foreign commerce, or in any place under the exclusive jurisdiction of the U.S. (Warehouse Receipts Act, 1913: https://www.loc.gov/law/help/statutes-at-large/61st-congress/session-2/c61s2ch167.pdf)

Furthermore, The Columbia Law Review clarified the definition of a Warehouse Receipt as a simple document of title rather than any form of security, demonstrating the effects of the Warehouse Receipt Act in a definition that has been accepted as a maxim of law: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1110356?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents.

As a result, it can be ascertained that Liberty Dollar Financial Warehouse Receipts are lawful for use as an alternative currency, as "current money" and as a medium of barter exchange, but they are not under any regulations involving securities such as stocks, bonds or investments. Silver stored in our care is the basis for our Digital Payments System here. By purchasing .999 Fine Silver Bullion through us, your money is converted to the most stable form it can take, because the price of silver remains steady against all other commodities. Therefore, when you need to spend your money, any effects of inflation will be offset by the increase in the cash value of your silver. With our proprietary process, you can withdraw the cash value of your silver at any time, either to your PayPal account or to an associated bank account. Some banks can receive an instantaneous transfer so that you can access your funds within moments. In addition, you are also able to redeem your silver at any time and take it into your personal possession, or withdraw our Paper Warehouse Receipts for use locally, as well as buy and sell directly through our Liberty Dollar Marketplace with the actual silver value in your account.

Get anything you want or need with eLD through Liberty Dollar Financial.

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