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Rent Control

davycoppitt

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St Paul passes rent control. Was working for a land lord today who has allot of buildings in St. Paul. He was madder than hell about this. When does this madness stop

Why on earth would any landlord stick any money into a building if they can’t get higher rent.

 
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hammerhead

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How much have rents increased yoy? Reading into the article it said less than three percent over the past few decades.
 

Voodoo

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I saw an article that said there were already 1,000's of units in the queue to be built and they already let the city know they are on hold/canceled.
 
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Scorpio

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in addition, the article states existing projects with major reno's in the que for next year are shutting those down also,

millions upon millions in lost revenue, jobs, etc
banks shutting down funding for projects in stpaul as they don't want the exposure,

good for the developers, tell them to pound sand

here is one guys response:
It’s not about greed, or good people versus bad landlords, Kyle said. “It’s about math.”
 

Scorpio

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to give you an idea of how these 80's think,

know a person who knows a city planner,
they state that this particular city in the conversation is 30% short of housing goals, housing needed currently

he was stating the most efficient way to make up this discrepancy is mega projects with high density,

the question posed was what about 'affordable housing'

this guys response was, that as new buildings are completed, they will command a premium, and the existing buildings will cut their prices to compete with the shiny new stuff

now mind you, prior mega developers are going to just give in and drop their rents to compete with new?
and that is where this supposed 'affordable' level is going to come from?

then too, if a city is 30% short of units, that is demand, and in the face of excess demand, these property managers are just going to drop price?

these people prove time and again their inability to reason and think intelligently,
 

hoarder

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Also note you can only increase rent by 3%, but my dads single family home taxes in St paul went up 24.8% this year.
Yet the Federal Reserve can debase our currency in excess of 3%. Laws for thee and not for me.
 

Ensoniq

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We are the rulers and we make the laws

If we say the law of supply and demand is cancelled then so be it

What St Paul developers need is a good George Floyd incident. Burn it down, get the insurance, rebuild where property rights are respected

The rulers are so short sighted to miss that no one is going to invest in an area where they behave like this.
 

Goldhedge

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He was madder than hell about this.
If it were me I'd turn them into condo units and sell them, or sell the whole lot and move south where it's warm.
 

Casey Jones

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Just another phase of concentration of wealth.

Joe the Plumber, who puts his savings into rental properties to provide an income stream...finds Rent Controls basically turn his properties into losses.

Blackrock the Beneficient, finds that lobbyists who wrap requests in huge checks, get special audiences and carve-outs and, when they petition for rental adjustments...government whores representatives LISTEN.

And oblige.

I can only shake my head. Things are going so bad, so fast...
 

specsaregood

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As if it isn't obvious that rent-control leads to housing shortages. eg: I know somebody that has rented a 3bedroom apartment in San Francisco since the mid-90s just prior to the original .com boom. He hasn't lived there fulltime himself for nearly 2 decades, but has been able to sub-lease 2 rooms over the years to cover the rent and give him a place to stay for free in the city and to use as an office. Because of rent-controls, he pays less than half what other units go for. nowadays it stays pretty much empty and is just used for storage and as an office space, and a place for friends to stay when in the city. without the rent controls he would have given it up decades ago.
 

Ensoniq

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As if it isn't obvious that rent-control leads to housing shortages. eg: I know somebody that has rented a 3bedroom apartment in San Francisco since the mid-90s just prior to the original .com boom. He hasn't lived there fulltime himself for nearly 2 decades, but has been able to sub-lease 2 rooms over the years to cover the rent and give him a place to stay for free in the city and to use as an office. Because of rent-controls, he pays less than half what other units go for. nowadays it stays pretty much empty and is just used for storage and as an office space, and a place for friends to stay when in the city. without the rent controls he would have given it up decades ago.

The leftist politician..
As long as it looks like we’re doing something good. It doesn’t matter if the effects are going to be the opposite of what we say they’ll be. It doesn’t even matter if we know it while we’re doing it.

We can always blame the Republicans later
 

hammerhead

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Also note you can only increase rent by 3%, but my dads single family home taxes in St paul went up 24.8% this year.
That's robbery. How the hell did they get away with that?
 

Silvergun

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The company I work for made a living doing subdivisions of single family homes with 100+ lots for many many years. Then in 2008 development went belly up and it was extremely ugly. We transitioned to working with Agencies and Colleges, but subdivisions are much more rare. For the most part single family home subdivisions are a thing of the past. There has been an uptick now in the last 3-4 years and land development subdivision are coming back pretty strong, but they ditched the single family home. Now, we do a single lot subdivision with 75+ condos and I have to map the airspace for each unit.

On January 1, 2022 California SB9 goes into effect. It requires agencies administrative approval and development cannot be denied even if it is in conflict with zoning or the general plan. Now, a single family home can have up to 6 units I believe. In fact, I just got off a Zoom meeting to do the first SB9 subdivision in this Town.

Crazy stuff.
 

Casey Jones

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That's robbery. How the hell did they get away with that?
How do you stop tax collection, or re-assesment of properties?

I went through this, with my mother's properties. She had a large-ish holding in a resort area of Western New York. When my father was alive, he was in there every round of assessment, contesting the value. Lakefront property aside, it wasn't really worth much. Useless for farm or agriculture; and at a 30-degree slope. And geologically unstable. The foundation on the house had shifted quite a bit, and that was the norm...this was an old summer resort community, and some of the frame houses from a century ago...elaborate structures in Carpenter Gothic....had had foundation shifts, to where even window frames shifted to break the glass out.

So, he'd fight with them. That was then; later, he was gone; my mother was not well, and was holding the property for rental income. She was outraged at the tax demands, and me with her.

So I had the fun of arguing her case before the Tax Assessor.

Your question is, "How can they get away with this?" Because no one challenges them. JUST a challenge, gets an almost-automatic partial rollback. If you have resources and an attorney, you can push harder.

Just know that they have a People's Utopia to fund; and they're True Believers.
 

everything

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I am also an advocate of affordable sensible housing, my theory is that then they can afford to buy their own food vs. the government benefit and food banks. Show the world something different. I'm being property taxed out of my 2nd home, into my 8th year, I'll probably give up around year 10 altogether and hopefully find a tiny rental somewhere. And, I don't upsize, I downsize.
 

Ensoniq

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I am also an advocate of affordable sensible housing, my theory is that then they can afford to buy their own food vs. the government benefit and food banks. Show the world something different. I'm being property taxed out of my 2nd home, into my 8th year, I'll probably give up around year 10 altogether and hopefully find a tiny rental somewhere. And, I don't upsize, I downsize.

“Affordable sensible” is a code phrase for wealth transfer

I’m not saying that’s how you’re using it

People should be free to buy as small or as large a home, as they can afford to pay for, without their neighbor’s tax dollars subsidizing their choice
 

Voodoo

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That's robbery. How the hell did they get away with that?

That happens all the time around here. The state just mandated everyone's assessment (and pretty much taxes) went up >12%. That was just 6 months after all the assessors are supposed to value everything to market value.
 

Voodoo

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The company I work for made a living doing subdivisions of single family homes with 100+ lots for many many years. Then in 2008 development went belly up and it was extremely ugly. We transitioned to working with Agencies and Colleges, but subdivisions are much more rare. For the most part single family home subdivisions are a thing of the past. There has been an uptick now in the last 3-4 years and land development subdivision are coming back pretty strong, but they ditched the single family home. Now, we do a single lot subdivision with 75+ condos and I have to map the airspace for each unit.

On January 1, 2022 California SB9 goes into effect. It requires agencies administrative approval and development cannot be denied even if it is in conflict with zoning or the general plan. Now, a single family home can have up to 6 units I believe. In fact, I just got off a Zoom meeting to do the first SB9 subdivision in this Town.

Crazy stuff.

Just get out of the commie run cities. Still plenty of single family homes. Although, granted the large subdivisions are usually in cities which have a tendency to be run by commies.
 

hammerhead

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There was a limit placed in 1980 on how much a year rates could go up without an over ride. As noted, inflation beats up the revenue also.​

Real and personal property taxes[edit]​

Under Proposition 2+1⁄2, a municipality is subject to two property tax limits:

  1. Ceiling: The total annual property tax revenue raised by a municipality shall not exceed 2.5% of the assessed value of all taxable property contained in it.
  2. Increase limit: The annual increase of property tax cannot exceed 2.5%, plus the amount attributable to taxes that are from new real property.
These limits refer to the entire amount of the annual tax levy raised by a municipality. The property taxes are the sum of: (a) residential real property; (b) commercial real property; (c) industrial real property; and (d) business-owned personal property. In practice, it usually limits the tax bills of individual taxpayers, but only as an indirect result. The limits for each community are calculated by the Massachusetts Department of Revenue.[citation needed]

A side effect of Proposition 2+1⁄2 is that municipality income will decline in real terms whenever inflation rises above 2.5%. Historically inflation has been above 2.5% for a significant majority of the years since 1980 (22 out of the 28 years to date), thus resulting in a real decline in local tax rates and local spending ability.

An exception allows the citizens of each municipality to override the 2+1⁄2 restriction to address specific needs of the community thus giving the citizens direct control over their taxation.
 

everything

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hoarder

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The company I work for made a living doing subdivisions of single family homes with 100+ lots for many many years. Then in 2008 development went belly up and it was extremely ugly. We transitioned to working with Agencies and Colleges, but subdivisions are much more rare. For the most part single family home subdivisions are a thing of the past. There has been an uptick now in the last 3-4 years and land development subdivision are coming back pretty strong, but they ditched the single family home. Now, we do a single lot subdivision with 75+ condos and I have to map the airspace for each unit.

On January 1, 2022 California SB9 goes into effect. It requires agencies administrative approval and development cannot be denied even if it is in conflict with zoning or the general plan. Now, a single family home can have up to 6 units I believe. In fact, I just got off a Zoom meeting to do the first SB9 subdivision in this Town.

Crazy stuff.
Our ruler prefer to have their cattle penned up close together where one third of their subjects will keep the rest under observation. Another benefit to multi-family housing is that more race-mixing takes place.
 

newmisty

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