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SCAMMED by APMEX! Silver And Gold Dealer Fraud!

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stAGgering

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#41
SCRAPMEX is charging $20+ more than BullionExchange, JMB, and Provident, for 15 1 oz 2017 Pandas in the sheet.
Provident is the lowest, and at any amount 1 oz or monster box.

Coins N Things, Bridegewater, MA had same revenue as SCRAPMEX, 6.5 billion.
Coins n Things retails as Bay Precious Metals on Ebad, and massive govt bullion.
SCRAPMEX, should be aggressively performing to maintain market position.
BPM is moving in, and going back to consume the market at the level it started on, street.
 

mayhem

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#42
My only problem with Amex is their junk silver bags. I have bought 2 and they were both short a coin. They did send the coins, but I won't buy bags any more.

How many people open bags and count? Maybe it was a coincidence, maybe not.
I bought 2 from them and they had some 40% mixed in. Never again, although they made good AFTER I returned the 40's to them.
 

mayhem

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#43
And speaking of USPS I recently lost a thumb drive and a 100$ MO to Scorp. Both were signed for as delivered. USPS said tough shit. So the thumb drive wasn't that big a deal, but GIM2 and myself lost out on the 100$.
 

Usury

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#44
I'd call the postal inspector and also file a police report.
 

Joe King

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#45
And speaking of USPS I recently lost a thumb drive and a 100$ MO to Scorp. Both were signed for as delivered. USPS said tough shit. So the thumb drive wasn't that big a deal, but GIM2 and myself lost out on the 100$.
Well there ya go. Exactly what happened to the guy in the video in the OP.
...but it was signed for, so apparently that constitutes delivery and the USPS considers it a job well done.

Also, even if you had bought insurance to cover the $100 and cost of the thumb drive, they'd have still said tough shit. USPS insurance is nothin' but a scam. You have to be able to prove to their satisfaction what was in the package.
...but unless they sat there and watched you package it, how can anyone prove what was in a lost package? Coulda been your life savings, but they'll say for all they know, it coulda been newspaper clippings. Claim denied!
 

southfork

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#46
This is really a tough call, if I had sold something on fleabay and had signature confirmation, ( I do that on any item sold for over 100 bucks) I would not give a refund, were i the buyer in the video I would go the distance filing a police report against the postal agent for theft.
 

Joe King

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#47
This is really a tough call, if I had sold something on fleabay and had signature confirmation, ( I do that on any item sold for over 100 bucks) I would not give a refund, were i the buyer in the video I would go the distance filing a police report against the postal agent for theft.
What if the buyer requested the purchase of insurance on the package to ensure that should "anything happen" to it in transit, that the purchaser will be covered?

Edited to add:...and I agree with filing a police report. The should have secretly recorded the conversation at the post office and let the cops listen to them say the only way they'd deal with him was if he agreed to not press charges. The post office should not be in the business of protecting their thieving employees from prosecution.
 

southfork

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#48
What if the buyer requested the purchase of insurance on the package to ensure that should "anything happen" to it in transit, that the purchaser will be covered?
USPS does not cover bullion, would have to be registered mail, if I complied with the deal as advertised and has confirmation Id be satisfied I did my part , wondering how though paypal and ebay would rule on a case like this.
 

Joe King

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#49
USPS does not cover bullion, would have to be registered mail, if I complied with the deal as advertised and has confirmation Id be satisfied I did my part , wondering how though paypal and ebay would rule on a case like this.
Then there ya go. If APMEX states that they insure their shipments, it's on them to make it good, because the item in question is un-insurable by the postal service itself.
...and that's why they only offered $50.

Sounds to me like APMEX needs to quit saying they insure deliveries, because they obviously do not actually do so as the post office will not sell insurance on such items. In other words, it's all on APMEX to guarantee delivery, not USPS.
 

D-FENZ

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#50
Just wing it. Never buy the insurance through USPS. Especially if the postage price is on the label. A $24 postage price on a small flat rate box would be a dead giveaway for valuable contents as an example. Just make sure it is well packaged in a plain box. Packages rarely end up lost. If it does get lost and it's valuable, good luck getting reimbursed from the postal service- insurance or not.

If it's really valuable use another shipping method.
 

Usury

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#52
Wife sent a package to Brother and SIL. USPS lost it. Filed a claim and she got a check. They just asked for receipts. Of course they had no record of delivery either....last tracking was the large city PO a couple towns over. Then it went dark.
 

Joe King

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#54
Really? Even if it's registered mail?
Not sure about registered, but everyone I've ever heard of who tries to claim on postal insurance on a lost package has been denied as they could not adequately prove what was in the package and that it was worth what they claimed.
...and I would imagine that not much registered mail comes up missing, as it is kept under lock and key and is signed for each time it moves within the post office. They also charge out the wazoo for that, so they're making the money one would have paid for insurance on a regular shipment anyways. If regular mail comes up missing, it's near impossible to determine exactly who had it last in their hands. With registered, they know every person who touches it.


Edited to add: IMHO, I should be able to insure an empty envelope for a million dollars and if it should come up missing, I get a million dollars from the post office. What's actually in the envelope should not matter. Just that the proper fees were paid.
...but that's not how it works.
 

Joe King

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#55
Wife sent a package to Brother and SIL. USPS lost it. Filed a claim and she got a check. They just asked for receipts. Of course they had no record of delivery either....last tracking was the large city PO a couple towns over. Then it went dark.
I'm shocked. I'd say you got lucky.
 

<SLV>

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#56
APMEX is a top notch business. It is the only company I recommend to noobs. Their website is very easy to use, their selection is awesome, their prices are fair, their service is excellent, and even their packaging is high quality. Never had a problem ordering from them, and their shipping is prompt.
 

Flight2gold

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#57
Have to agree about APMEX. Over the years they've been nothing but excellent.
The USPS, on the other hand, would be the weak link although I will say that they've improved somewhat in the past couple years.
Most all USPS employees, and any other shipping co, know exactly what's in certain packages.
Management knows this also so certain safeguards have been put in place to reduce theft.
Several years ago, I bought several large bags of junk silver from APMEX with the USPS shipping.
I was required to pick the package up at the post office and when I got to the window the postal employee announced in a loud voice,
"Those bags of gold and silver sure are heavy", or something to that effect.
I turned around to see about 20 people staring my way.
I haven't felt that unsafe walking to the car in a long time.
 

the_shootist

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#58
Have to agree about APMEX. Over the years they've been nothing but excellent.
The USPS, on the other hand, would be the weak link although I will say that they've improved somewhat in the past couple years.
Most all USPS employees, and any other shipping co, know exactly what's in certain packages.
Management knows this also so certain safeguards have been put in place to reduce theft.
Several years ago, I bought several large bags of junk silver from APMEX with the USPS shipping.
I was required to pick the package up at the post office and when I got to the window the postal employee announced in a loud voice,
"Those bags of gold and silver sure are heavy", or something to that effect.
I turned around to see about 20 people staring my way.
I haven't felt that unsafe walking to the car in a long time.
Postal employees aren't the best of the best in America. I avoid most government employess whenever I can. In your example I would have torn that idiot a new asshole for compromising your privacy
 

stAGgering

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#59
Interesting to read endless SCRAPMEX praise.
If such a wonderful company, why does it utilize a high risk shipping company.
If such a wonderful company, why does it utilize blame upon high risk shipping company.
If such a wonderful company, why does it cost more for any and everything.
If such a wonderful company, why is customer placed within the center of liability.
If such a wonderful company, why is company resembling the IRS, standing outside the ring of liability.

I do not use SCRAPMEX... because of cost, never have, but might if product sought cost least by significant margin, maybe.
I do not recommend SCRAPMEX to noobs singularly. It is referenced as option with notice of highest cost.
Why would one "groom" noobs to pay the highest cost... unless your father in law, minister, boy scout leader, "groomed" you?
I find such worshipping unbecoming, monopolistically enabling, disempowering, and unAmerican.
Where one expends ones earnings, is the ONLY location ones "vote" is counted.
Condoning subservience is disgusting.
More people losing around oneself does not create a winner.

Continue to purchase form Apmex, continue to pay more, your choice.
 
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Joe King

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#60
APMEX is a top notch business. It is the only company I recommend to noobs. Their website is very easy to use, their selection is awesome, their prices are fair, their service is excellent, and even their packaging is high quality. Never had a problem ordering from them, and their shipping is prompt.
I'm not saying they are the worst company ever, just that if they state that their insurance covers "anything" (their term, not mine) then by God they should honor that. As someone else posted, they are the ones insuring it, not the post office as the post office will not sell insurance on bullion shipments.
That means if I don't get my package delivered to me, they have to make it good. Problem is, prior to ordering, I have no way of knowing if they actually will honor it or not.
...and if only .1% of customers have an issue like this, the vast majority of customers will obviously not have a problem themselves and be able to cheer about how great they are while a handful of their customers just lose their money.

My biggest problem with APMEX and others like them is that they do not allow the customer to pick up their own order. They force you to use a shipping service. Why can't I just drive there and get my own order myself? You'd think they would save a bundle on "free shipping".
...but no, sorry. Having a "will call" window for customer pick up is too much trouble, it seems. So they won't ever get my business.


Edited to add: I'm not asking them to open a retail outlet, just the ability to pick up an existing order. Is that really so hard to do?
 

Scorpio

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#61
My biggest problem with APMEX and others like them is that they do not allow the customer to pick up their own order. They force you to use a shipping service. Why can't I just drive there and get my own order myself? You'd think they would save a bundle on "free shipping".
...but no, sorry. Having a "will call" window for customer pick up is too much trouble, it seems. So they won't ever get my business.
Don't agree with this,

It is all about security. If I was in the bus, especially as large as these players, I wouldn't have a open window for every tom dick and harry either.

Lot of them have the office listed as a different location than the wharehouse and the wharehouse address is secret.

For obvious reasons.

Then you have the cost associated with a retail op.
 

Usury

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#62
Interesting to read endless SCRAPMEX praise.
If such a wonderful company, why does it utilize a high risk shipping company.
If such a wonderful company, why does it utilize blame upon high risk shipping company.
If such a wonderful company, why does it cost more for any and everything.
If such a wonderful company, why is customer placed within the center of liability.
If such a wonderful company, why is company resembling the IRS, standing outside the ring of liability.

I do not use SCRAPMEX... because of cost, never have, but might if product sought cost least by significant margin, maybe.
I do not recommend SCRAPMEX to noobs singularly. It is referenced as option with notice of highest cost.
Why would one "groom" noobs to pay the highest cost... unless your father in law, minister, boy scout leader, "groomed" you?
I find such worshipping unbecoming, monopolistically enabling, disempowering, and unAmerican.
Where one expends ones earnings, is the ONLY location ones "vote" is counted.
Condoning subservience is disgusting.
More people losing around oneself does not create a winner.

Continue to purchase form Apmex, continue to pay more, your choice.
So you have No experience with APMEX....ok, got it. Perhaps folks might be interested in listening to those of us that do.

I recall back in 2008 trying to get bullion. Most dealers didn't have it and/or strung their customers along. Not Apmex. Also, as I mentioned above they seem to have a reliable method of ensuring authenticity. Buying bullion 2% cheaper doesn't do me any good if even one piece of it turns out to be counterfeit. Service and peace of mind are worth something. Often times Apmex is just as cheap as other dealers...it really depends on what you're buying and if it's on sale.

Having said that, I have bought from other dealers as well...and usually over price. But Apmex would make my top online dealer list definitely. Not really sure why you have so much animosity...especially when you seem to be saying you don't/haven't even used them?

Very strange...are you a competing dealer perhaps?
 

Usury

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#63
I'm not saying they are the worst company ever, just that if they state that their insurance covers "anything" (their term, not mine) then by God they should honor that. As someone else posted, they are the ones insuring it, not the post office as the post office will not sell insurance on bullion shipments.
That means if I don't get my package delivered to me, they have to make it good. Problem is, prior to ordering, I have no way of knowing if they actually will honor it or not.
...and if only .1% of customers have an issue like this, the vast majority of customers will obviously not have a problem themselves and be able to cheer about how great they are while a handful of their customers just lose their money.

My biggest problem with APMEX and others like them is that they do not allow the customer to pick up their own order. They force you to use a shipping service. Why can't I just drive there and get my own order myself? You'd think they would save a bundle on "free shipping".
...but no, sorry. Having a "will call" window for customer pick up is too much trouble, it seems. So they won't ever get my business.


Edited to add: I'm not asking them to open a retail outlet, just the ability to pick up an existing order. Is that really so hard to do?
Don't believe everything somebody posts online...including YouTube vids.
 

stAGgering

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#64
So you have No experience with APMEX....ok, got it. Perhaps folks might be interested in listening to those of us that do.

I recall back in 2008 trying to get bullion. Most dealers didn't have it and/or strung their customers along. Not Apmex. Also, as I mentioned above they seem to have a reliable method of ensuring authenticity. Buying bullion 2% cheaper doesn't do me any good if even one piece of it turns out to be counterfeit. Service and peace of mind are worth something. Often times Apmex is just as cheap as other dealers...it really depends on what you're buying and if it's on sale.

Having said that, I have bought from other dealers as well...and usually over price. But Apmex would make my top online dealer list definitely. Not really sure why you have so much animosity...especially when you seem to be saying you don't/haven't even used them?

Very strange...are you a competing dealer perhaps?
CAN YOU READ ?
"I do not use SCRAPMEX... because of cost,"
Yes, you wrote, "it really depends on what you're buying and if it's on sale."
I am not a dealer, or sale shopper, which limits SCRAPMEX viability, for me.
I also am disinterested in purchasing default to customer and shipping company, insurance.
You ?
Why would I need personal experience to comprehend SCRAPMEX cost, performance, and market leverage.
A KISS(keep it simple stupid) policy for purchasing and cost control, no more, no less.
You may praise SCRAPMEX as much as you wish, I am beyond newbie grooming and offer different POV.
Only a threat, battle, animosity, competition, if you choose such, and wish to pay 2% more.
I'll do that at LL Bean down the street for certain outdoor gear.
Why? Because their return policy is simple. Return it, money back 10 days or 10 years, I know this.

Most large companies and corporations do not care, but people assume they do until...

If the vid is truth, SCRAPMEX should cover loss, use as write off, and move on.
That is the point, no discussion or smokescreen of praise needed.
If SCRAPMEX comes forth and does cover this customers loss, bravo.
If not, we will all be watching to see if more, or other incidents come forth.


"SCRAPMEX" definition; Only close to spot or low prices, if purchasing less than 500 oz, are scraps.
 

stAGgering

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#65
Don't agree with this,

It is all about security. If I was in the bus, especially as large as these players, I wouldn't have a open window for every tom dick and harry either.

Lot of them have the office listed as a different location than the wharehouse and the wharehouse address is secret.

For obvious reasons.

Then you have the cost associated with a retail op.

In todays world, the address may be a web page secret, but no secret.
Insurance company liability reduction policy.
As well as being smart, as you imply.
 

Joe King

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#66
It is all about security. If I was in the bus, especially as large as these players, I wouldn't have a open window for every tom dick and harry either.

Lot of them have the office listed as a different location than the wharehouse and the wharehouse address is secret.

For obvious reasons.
The thieves know where it's at.



Then you have the cost associated with a retail op.
I didn't say they should have a retail establishment like a lcs, but rather just a window where pick-ups could be made. All I'm trying to do is avoid the thief at the post office.
...and from I what read in mayhems post, this exact same thing happened to you guys. He said it was signed for, but that you didn't actually receive it and both are just out the money.

Thanks, post office! What good is "signature confirmation" if the post man can just forge the recipients name and steal your stuff, claiming it was actually delivered?
How do you fight that? Especially just over a mere $100 MO? Who's gonna spend the money for handwriting analysis on something like that? They certainly won't, as they believe the signature.



peace of mind are worth something
My piece of mind includes not having to wonder if the thieves within the post office get their hot little hands on my high dollar package.
All it takes is once to make the whole deal not be worth it.



BTW, I'm not saying anyone should not order from APMEX or anyone else. I know people who do and have not lost a package yet. Spend your money where you want. I'm just pointing what I don't like about those types of outfits. Because if ANY possibility exists I might get ripped off, I will pass.
...and as long as the mailman can simply sign my name and take my package, leaving me out my money, it's just not worth the chance.
 
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Usury

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#67
Oh I have no problem reading...nor with the comprehension of such. I also think I now understand you completely and you have confirmed my assessment.
 

Usury

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#68
The thieves know where it's at.




I didn't say they should have a retail establishment like a lcs, but rather just a window where pick-ups could be made. All I'm trying to do is avoid the thief at the post office.
...and from I what read in mayhems post, this exact same thing happened to you guys. He said it was signed for, but that you didn't actually receive it and both are just out the money.

Thanks, post office! What good is "signature confirmation" if the post man can just forge the recipients name and steal your stuff, claiming it was actually delivered?
How do you fight that? Especially just over a mere $100 MO? Who's gonna spend the money for handwriting analysis on something like that? They certainly won't, as they believe the signature.



My piece of mind includes not having to wonder if the thieves within the post office get their hot little hands on my high dollar package.
All it takes is once to make the whole deal not be worth it.



BTW, I'm saying anyone should not order from APMEX or anyone else. I know people who do and have not lost a package yet. Spend your money where you want. I'm just pointing what I don't like about those types of outfits. Because if ANY possibility exists I might get ripped off, I will pass.
...and as long as the mailman can simply sign my name and take my package, leaving me out my money, it's just not worth the chance.
I was about to point out that Apmex is no different than any other dealer as far as deliver method, but you acknowledge this.

So you claim nobody should purchase online?
Well then how do you suggest those of us with no other good option purchase then? Many places have few dealers or ones that charge mark-ups of 20%, plus no way to confirm authenticity. Not to mention taxes in such areas.

Also there's a really simple solution to this problem--purchase via cc. Again, you can get deals on Apmex eBay store for often the same price as other dealers "cash" price.
 

Joe King

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#69
One other thing about APMEX that I noticed is that they keep a running total of everything bought and when it was bought. If this stuff ever does take a Moon shot, and we all probably hope it does, there will be a nice record of exactly when said items were purchased. It seems to me that will make it impossible to avoid potentially high capital gains taxes in the future.

If you buy anonymously, who's to say when you bought that tube of '00 GAE's? You bought 'em just a week ago, right? Wink wink. lol
 

Joe King

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#70
I was about to point out that Apmex is no different than any other dealer as far as deliver method, but you acknowledge this.
Yep. My problem comes with the post office and the thieves they may employ within the ranks of otherwise good people. I realize that most PO employees are good people, but it only takes one rotten apple, as they say.


So you claim nobody should purchase online?
No, just that one be aware of the methods that could be used to rip you off.


Well then how do you suggest those of us with no other good option purchase then? Many places have few dealers or ones that charge mark-ups of 20%, plus no way to confirm authenticity. Not to mention taxes in such areas.
The way I see it, people choose where to live. If you live somewhere with high taxes, contact your local State Rep, or move where they have reasonable tax rates.


Also there's a really simple solution to this problem--purchase via cc. Again, you can get deals on Apmex eBay store for often the same price as other dealers "cash" price.
Will the CC company cover an instance of the mailman being accused by you of forging your sig and saying it was delivered?
 

Usury

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#71
Well if you're looking to launder money or evade taxes I can't help you there. And this ain't a discussion about the legitimacy of taxation....I don't like them either, but plan to stay out of jail and do what's required.

The crazy thing is that I would think your only option to do this anonimously would be to do a cash deal with a local dealer. Then you have a problem too because if you're paying with over $10k cash then the dealer is required to file a CTR with FINCEN. If you consistently make purchases just under the threshold, said dealer would be required to file a SAR and you might be charged by the Feds with structuring. And if you're only talking about small-time deal, then why would it even matter?

People get so worked up over relatively small sums. I have seen folks driving a brand-new $80k vehicle drive 5 miles across town to buy gas for 2 cents cheaper a gallon. Some of the comments in this thread are similarly crazy.
 

Usury

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#72
I'll add one more thought on this: There ARE NO GUARANTEES in life. No matter what option a purchaser may choose, there's always a chance you could get screwed or in a FTF deal, worse....dead.
 

Joe King

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#73
I'll add one more thought on this: There ARE NO GUARANTEES in life. No matter what option a purchaser may choose, there's always a chance you could get screwed or in a FTF deal, worse....dead.
True, there typically are no guarantees in life, but APMEX states that should "anything happen" to your delivery it is covered. That sounds like a guarantee to me......except when it's not. Like in cases of PO employees forging your signature. "Sorry, it says here it was delivered."
 

stAGgering

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#74
Oh I have no problem reading...nor with the comprehension of such. I also think I now understand you completely and you have confirmed my assessment.
Phew !
Now you certain your confirmation is dead on ?
Maybe I should send you ex-girlfriend contact numbers... cuz "Perhaps folks might be interested in listening to those of us(them) that do(have)." ?
Lorna and Ria might be a little graphic so should I leave those numbers off the list?
 
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