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Second Boeing 737 MAX 8 Crash in Six Months

D-FENZ

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#1
Another Boeing 737 MAX 8 has crashed within minutes of takeoff, killing all 157 aboard. The latest was an Ethiopian Airlines flight on Sunday morning en route from Addis Ababa to Nairobi, Kenya.

Boeing stock is singlehandedly dragging the Dow Jones Industrial Average down over 200 points premarket.

If you're looking for a silver lining to the dark cloud there are a couple- depending on your perspective: At least a dozen of the passengers were headed to a U.N. environmental assembly in Nairobi, presumably to discuss 'climate change'. And now there is one less CO2 spewing, ozone depleting, fossil fuel guzzling jet destroying our environment.

Oh, the irony.
 

Wellsburg

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#4
Malaysia Air Flight 370 went down last year over the Indian Ocean. Also a Boeing plane.

Check out Field McConnell (retired commercial pilot) on Yoo Toob. He discusses Boeing's new "Uninterruptible Auto Pilot." and how dangerous it is.

If it is able to be hacked, there is the answer. Possible ?
 

the_shootist

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#5
Malaysia Air Flight 370 went down last year over the Indian Ocean. Also a Boeing plane.

Check out Field McConnell (retired commercial pilot) on Yoo Toob. He discusses Boeing's new "Uninterruptible Auto Pilot." and how dangerous it is.

If it is able to be hacked, there is the answer. Possible ?
Which is why I'd rather drive around in a '79 Ford Pinto than one of those self driving cars!!
 

Goldhedge

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#6
I wonder who on board was important enough to take out, kill all those other people as well...
The $64 million dollar question...
 

Scorpio

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#7
I wonder who on board was important enough to take out,
maybe looking at this from a different view, no one

we are at war,

tramp just came back from vietnam with a big order for boeing, following another earlier large order placed,
boeing has been flying high because of it

point being, someone out there is not interested in boeing sweeping the table on orders,

southwest announced they have over 41,000 flights with the same rig, no issues

so you tell me, is this real or is it once again memorex?
 

chomper

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#8
I see it as a convergence of three things:

- lack of pilot skill
- passenger manifest
- economic hitmen doing their job

A new aircraft type sweeping the market in the hands of an underskilled and poorly trained pilot carrying passenger(s) of interest...

 

newmisty

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#9
Another Boeing 737 MAX 8 has crashed within minutes of takeoff, killing all 157 aboard. The latest was an Ethiopian Airlines flight on Sunday morning en route from Addis Ababa to Nairobi, Kenya.

Boeing stock is singlehandedly dragging the Dow Jones Industrial Average down over 200 points premarket.

If you're looking for a silver lining to the dark cloud there are a couple- depending on your perspective: At least a dozen of the passengers were headed to a U.N. environmental assembly in Nairobi, presumably to discuss 'climate change'. And now there is one less CO2 spewing, ozone depleting, fossil fuel guzzling jet destroying our environment.

Oh, the irony.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Honeywell_Uninterruptible_Autopilot

Boeing Honeywell Uninterruptible Autopilot
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Boeing Uninterruptible Autopilot is a system designed to take control of a commercial aircraft away from the pilot or flight crew in the event of a hijacking.[1] If implemented, the system would allow the craft to automatically guide itself to a landing at a designated airstrip.[2] The "uninterruptible" autopilot would be activated either by pilots, by onboard sensors, or remotely via radio or satellite links by government agencies, if terrorists attempt to gain control of a flight deck.[2]
Both Boeing and Honeywell have contributed significantly to the introduction of digital autopilot technology into the civil aviation sector.[3] A patent for the system was awarded to Boeing in 2006.[4] Honeywell has also been developing a system with Airbus, and a prototype has been tested on small aircraft.[5]
In 2013, a 16-seater Jetstream airliner became the first passenger plane to fly unmanned across UK civilian airspace. However, Britain's Civil Aviation Authority says there is no remote control system currently available that could cope with navigating the country's crowded skies. According to a spokesman, "There are companies working on it, but the technology doesn't exist in a practical or usable form yet".[6]
There have been claims that the technology has been secretly fitted to some commercial airliners. Some have blamed it for the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, whose cause is unknown as of 2018.[7][8][9] According to Bob Mann, an airline industry consultant, there is no evidence that the Boeing Uninterruptible Autopilot has ever been used in a commercial airliner.[10] Safety concerns, including the possibility that such a system could be hacked, have prevented its roll-out. [11]
 

Area51

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#10
maybe looking at this from a different view, no one

we are at war,

tramp just came back from vietnam with a big order for boeing, following another earlier large order placed,
boeing has been flying high because of it

point being, someone out there is not interested in boeing sweeping the table on orders,

southwest announced they have over 41,000 flights with the same rig, no issues

so you tell me, is this real or is it once again memorex?

To me, this is an equipment failure/software malfunction issue. Definitely do not suspect any foul play or sabotage.

But I did find it very surprising that China was the first to announce all 737s were grounded. Of all countries, China concerned about safety?

Then we hear that a new Chinese made passenger jet similar to the 737 is about to hit the market.

Absolutely ZERO doubt that's the reason for China grounding the 737s.
 

Area51

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#11
Boeing already has more than 5,000 firm orders for the 737s and their suppliers can't keep up with production of 50/month.

At $100 MILLION per pop, you can do the math to understand how this will be handled.

The "investigation" will blame the pilots and a few "precautionary modifications" - - ie correcting the deficient design - - will quietly be made.
 

Uglytruth

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#12
Planes seemed safer when they were built by engineers with slide rules & brains.
Bridges seemed safer when they were built by engineers that have a penis.
Just sayin. We have a female engineer and when a failed part was returned for analysis I asked her if it caused an accident.
She had never even considered that......... it was an aircraft part..........

 

newmisty

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#13

https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1105532454100705281
 

<SLV>

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#14
What nation manufactures a large part of electronics sold globally?
What nation's electronics are under scrutiny by the US government?
What nation is in a trade war with the US?
What nation has little regard for human life and is a perpetual human rights abuser?
What nation is home to Boeing?
 

anywoundedduck

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#15
I would not discount an outside saboteur taking over the controls of the planes, and flying them into the ground.
 

LufT97

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#16
I doubt it was foul play, I suspect it is a combination of a lazy design team at Boeing that relied on automated systems to prevent stalls after slapping bigger engines on a 737 frame and ruining the planes center of gravity and pilots who have years of experience flying the 737NG and are not properly trained how to react to the new automated MCAS system. At low altitude you won't have long to decide how to disengage a forced nose dive by the automated system before you hit the ground.

"The Max is outfitted with bigger, more fuel-efficient engines than earlier 737s, a change that shifted the center of gravity forward and increases the potential for the nose to pitch up after take-off. Boeing created software known as the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System, or MCAS, to counteract this risk.
MCAS uses sensors to point the nose of the plane down if it detects it has pitched too high and could be at risk of stalling. By measuring the position of the plane's wings relative to airflow, the system's sensor indicate to pilots if the plane is at risk of stalling from going too slow or flying too steeply into a climb. It's a brand new system on 737 Max planes.
However, problems can arise when the MCAS system automatically pushes the plane's nose down, potentially surprising pilots who are unfamiliar with the system and overriding their commands. According to The New York Times, Boeing and the FAA decided pilots did not need to be informed about the change to the flight control system. The Times reported Boeing and regulators decided against informing pilots at least in part to minimize the costs of retraining pilots."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boeing...mcas-safety-who-flies-safety-faa-how-to-know/

"It can be stopped by the Pilot counter-trimming on the Yoke or by him hitting the CUTOUT switches on the center pedestal. It’s not stopped by the Pilot pulling the Yoke, which for normal trim from the autopilot or runaway manual trim triggers trim hold sensors. This would negate why MCAS was implemented, the Pilot pulling so hard on the Yoke that the aircraft is flying close to stall.

It’s probably this counterintuitive characteristic, which goes against what has been trained many times in the simulator for unwanted autopilot trim or manual trim runaway, which has confused the pilots of JT610. They learned that holding against the trim stopped the nose down, and then they could take action, like counter-trimming or outright CUTOUT the trim servo. But it didn’t. After a 10 second trim to a 2.5° nose down stabilizer position, the trimming started again despite the Pilots pulling against it. The faulty high AOA signal was still present.

How should they know that pulling on the Yoke didn’t stop the trim? It was described nowhere; neither in the aircraft’s manual, the AFM, nor in the Pilot’s manual, the FCOM. This has created strong reactions from airlines with the 737 MAX on the flight line and their Pilots. They have learned the NG and the MAX flies the same. They fly them interchangeably during the week.

They do fly the same as long as no fault appears. Then there are differences, and the Pilots should have been informed about the differences."

https://leehamnews.com/2018/11/14/b...-the-737-max-was-not-disclosed-to-the-pilots/