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SHTF gun

dozer99

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#41
That's a hard question! However, if I had to bet my life and the lives of my family on just one gun in a SHTF situation and I was just an average Joe, then it would be a pump shotgun. Remington 870 in 12ga to be exact. Like many above have said, it has stopping power, ease of use and reliability. It's under $500 with plenty left over for ammo. Think about this: If it's a SHTF situation, are you defending or attacking? Shotguns are one of the best defensive weapons in the world, that's why there are millions of them behind millions of bedroom doors all over this country!
 

Professur

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#42

Argentium

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#43
Not as a defensive firearm, but what about those rifle/shotgun combo guns. I'm trying to remember the configuration, but they were single-shot, over and under, with a .243 Win as the top barrel, over a 20 Ga lower. Don't quote me on the exact caliber and gauge, but I think they were made by Savage.

They would be a good game-getter in SHTF, where no one is going to give a sh!t about what's in season, etc. Probably everyone has run across quail, pheasant, waterfowl while deer hunting, or vice versa. I'd like to know if these are still being made by someone!
 

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#44
Not as a defensive firearm, but what about those rifle/shotgun combo guns. I'm trying to remember the configuration, but they were single-shot, over and under, with a .243 Win as the top barrel, over a 20 Ga lower. Don't quote me on the exact caliber and gauge, but I think they were made by Savage.

They would be a good game-getter in SHTF, where no one is going to give a sh!t about what's in season, etc. Probably everyone has run across quail, pheasant, waterfowl while deer hunting, or vice versa. I'd like to know if these are still being made by someone!
I had one that was .22LR top and 20 guage bottom by Savage or Stevens. The trigger was awful. Maybe I shoulda got a gunsmith to rework it.
 

ttazzman

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#45
Not as a defensive firearm, but what about those rifle/shotgun combo guns. I'm trying to remember the configuration, but they were single-shot, over and under, with a .243 Win as the top barrel, over a 20 Ga lower. Don't quote me on the exact caliber and gauge, but I think they were made by Savage.

They would be a good game-getter in SHTF, where no one is going to give a sh!t about what's in season, etc. Probably everyone has run across quail, pheasant, waterfowl while deer hunting, or vice versa. I'd like to know if these are still being made by someone!
savage model 42 ......still in production......the older models were model 24s availible in many configurations

http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/savage-model-42-review/

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/Model42



stevens also made them in the past......

http://www.savage24.com/ ..............this link shows many of the combo's that was availible in the past


never had one ......always thought it would make a great squirrel hunting gun.....i would like 22mag/20ga or 223/20ga i think
 
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Argentium

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#46
savage model 42 ......still in production......the older models were model 24s availible in many configurations

http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/savage-model-42-review/

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/Model42



stevens also made them in the past......

http://www.savage24.com/ ..............this link shows many of the combo's that was availible in the past


never had one ......always thought it would make a great squirrel hunting gun.....i would like 22mag/20ga or 223/20ga i think
I wonder why they stopped offering the more useful centerfire options and larger gauge shotgun barrel combinations? For what I want, the .22WMR/.410 is too anemic for me. A .30-30/12 gauge would be perfect!
 

ttazzman

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#47
im sure it was due to lack of sales..........probably to costly to produce .........much more sexy to have one barrel and a 30rd magazine
 
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#48
For SHTF, alot of talk of shotguns but not a badass Saiga 12 or 20 gage? sad... :(


SCAR 16/17- Well rounded weapon give it 10-15 yrs might replace ar15.

 
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obilly

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#49
when I posted which one of my rifles I would pick for a zombie/shtf gun. I was thinking of having to walk with it and also being able to carry the necessary food, water, rain grear, etc. the only rifles I have that fit the requirement are the 22lr ones. JMO
 

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#50
For under $500, I would go with a Siaga in 7.62x39. Built in the Izhmash factory, very accurate and bulletproof.
 

gringott

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#51
I have been shooting an M16 in the various editions since 1972 in and out of combat, the major cause of malfunctions I have seen has been old worn out magazines. I have used the forward assist but I think outside of life or death situations it would be safer to fix the problem than force the bolt forward. Since becoming a civilian and needing a SHTF weapon like you, I chose the M16 family since I was most familiar with them. I ended up with a sub $600 M4 clone made in Ky but purchased Magpul magazines to go with the rifle. Works fine [I've had it for a few years now] and I suspect I can hit further out and more accurately than with a AK. Just my humble opinion of course. I don't know the answer to every situation but I do know I would rather be holding a weapon I carried and used for decades in every kind of situation rather than something I fired on a range once or twice.
 

SilverCity

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#52
For under $500, I would go with a Siaga in 7.62x39. Built in the Izhmash factory, very accurate and bulletproof.
Good idea.

However, Saigas are hard to find at a reasonable price anymore. You might find one used for sale...223, 7.62x39, or even 5.45x39 are good caliber choices. Make sure you can locate enough ammo and mags first before purchasing the rifle.

SC
 

Milehi

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#53
Good idea.

However, Saigas are hard to find at a reasonable price anymore. You might find one used for sale...223, 7.62x39, or even 5.45x39 are good caliber choices. Make sure you can locate enough ammo and mags first before purchasing the rifle.

SC
A local chain gun shop had them on sale for $550 last month. Now they're 600. And with slight mod, they will accept AK mags. No silly bullet button here in CA either.
 

SilverCity

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#54
California? So that's where they all went. LOL

Still, $600 busts the OP's budget. Hopefully he can save up...

SC
 

Argentsum

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#55
Is there even such a thing as a SHTF gun?

Seems to me such gun is the gun you have when the SHTF.

There is too much variation in firearms for a one size fits all.

You have all these parameters; range, ballistics, penetration, fragmentation, weight, recoil, concealability, reliability, durability, maintenance, cost, ammo capacity, ease/quickness reloading, accuracy, rate of fire, availability of ammo, ergonomics, safety features, ease of target acquisition, accessory market...the list goes on and on...and on! Some of the make or break characteristics can get down right esoteric. For instance, a Henry AR-7 can float. A Marlin Papoose can break down.

It would make better sense to figure out what parameters are most important to the individual gun owner's situation and purchase a couple firearms that would best cover the situations envisioned.
 

Stinger

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#56
I'm new to the gun world.. just bought my first a month ago, a Springfield XD 9mm for home defense.

Now I'd like to find a nice SHTF gun. Something to defend myself and family in a social unrest situation. Something bigger than a .22 and semi auto for around $500. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I agree that the 22 LR should not be underestimated. A SHTF gun can be a funny sort of thing. My hero, FerFAL, used to say that, 'If you can't easily hide your rifle (carbine) underneath your arm then the last thing you want to do is walk around outside the house with it.' Many watchful and equally well-armed people who notice you walking around armed might consider you and your exposed long arm as a threat to themselves and their families, and promptly make a target out of you! (There's nothing to explain to an incoming 30 caliber round!)

Many self-defense long arms are, also, too unwieldy to easily use inside an automobile. If you can't quickly swing a firearm from one side of the car to the other then you really shouldn't be driving around with it. (Urban areas are particularly dangerous.)

The best long arm cartridges are the ones you're going to have the easiest time finding. All of my AK, and AR style carbines are in 5.56 x 45mm. Why? Because, if I survive beyond the first few days, it’s going to be metallic cartridges like these that I'm most likely to find littering the ground.

So what's more important than the semiautomatic pistol and tactical carbine that you were thoughtful enough to plan ahead and store in the bedroom closet? Well, let's see! First, you've got to know how to shoot. Second, you've got to really know your weapons; third, you're going to need, at least, 500 rounds of ammo for each weapon; and, finally, most important of all, YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE A WELL THOUGHT-OUT AND FUNCTIONAL HOME SELF-DEFENSE PLAN. Without this plan little else is going to work; and none of it's going to go smoothly. Here are some important points for you to consider:

1. You need to practice regularly with your gun(s).

2. You, also, need to form the good habit of cleaning your gun(s), often, and getting to know all the moving parts - intimately.

3. Ideally, you want to be fielding magazine-fed weapons; (A tube is OK for a shotgun.) and you'll need an absolute minimum of 3 extra magazines for every mag-fed weapon that you own.

4. Ammunition requirements have already been mentioned. My suggestion would be NOT to go, 'ammunition crazy'. Large supplies of ammunition are difficult to store, and subject to theft. If you've got a cool thousand rounds for each gun, then, that should be sufficient to defend yourself, your family, and your home for awhile. (If you prevail in your initial engagement(s) you'll have other ammo (and weapons) to add to your stores.)

5. My own home defense plans include, 'engagement zones'. Were law and order to breakdown, and civil riots to ensue, your immediate options are to either hide, or engage. I think we'd, all, like to try hiding first; but a hungry mob is still a hungry mob; and hiding, successfully, for an extended period of time might be impossible. So what can you do?

6. Here, I'm lucky. We live in a rural section of Pennsylvania's Pocono Mountains. All the neighbors along our road know one another. An attack anywhere within a mile of our home would invoke a concerned response from most, if not all, of our immediate neighbors. I know I can count on (most) of the neighbors; and (most) of the neighbors know that they can rely on me. Why? Because everybody realizes that a mutual neighborhood defense is the best defense!

7. I've got my property laid out in (mental) zones of fire. I'm able to start firing, with effect, at just inside 200 yards. That's what I call, 'rifle work'. At 75 - 80 yards I'm able to include the use of a shotgun and rifled-slugs. At and inside 50 yards, 00 buckshot comes into it's own! At and inside 25 yards, as well as inside the house, (Which is, exactly, where WE WOULD NOT BE if we were to see an all out mob attack coming.) there are the pistols - Mainly 9 x 19mm, 45 ACP, and 357 Magnum.

8. It should, always, be remembered that - when it comes to serious gunfighting - pistols are no better than expedient weapons. (Bet you never heard THAT on the televised evening news!) If you're forced to defend inside the home, a large caliber pistol comes into its own, and makes for an excellent choice of weapon. In and of itself, though, ANY PISTOL isn't going to be enough. In room-to-room combat two other prerequisites are absolutely necessary if you're going to, in any way, guarantee your own and your loved ones' survival.

9. You've got to know - REALLY KNOW - your own home and the property that surrounds it: Every prime ambush spot, and every open line and advantageous angle-of-fire. What am I talking about? Primary ambush spots inside the home include: Doorways, hallways, certain corners of certain rooms, and the top and bottom of stairs. Any stairwell, or entry foyer is an ideal ambush point. These are the places where an ambush can be most advantageously set up, and is most likely to succeed.

10. NEVER, NEVER, GO TO THE SOURCE OF THE PROBLEM. ALWAYS FORCE THE PROBLEM TO COME TO YOU. (Unless you're a member of a well-coordinated assault team there are no valid exceptions to this rule.)

11. You need to understand the concept of open lines and angles of fire. (They're your kids; and it's your big screen plasma TV, and ice-making refrigerator.) Some rooms are better suited for setting up a crossfire than others. Study your room layouts in order to determine what’s the most effective type of, 'reception committee' that can be set up there. Without exception the top and bottom of stairs are always excellent, 'reception areas' at which to wait for the target(s) to arrive. All hallways and all stairways, also, make for the very best of, 'killing grounds'.

12. Unless the room is unusually designed, stay out of the corners. Every assault team on the planet knows how to manage corners. What most home invaders don't know how to do is to quickly and effectively engage prone targets. Peek-a-booing around a doorway at eye level is one thing; doing it at floor level, though, or while you're lying, prone, on top of a table in the middle of a room is entirely another.

(Another useful home-defense technique is to have an accomplice take up a position opposite your own and, then, briefly flash-illuminate approaching targets with your tactical flashlight for you! When it’s done correctly this is a very difficult home-defense technique for any home invader to have to face. The only caveat? The person using the tac light needs to know how to hold the light correctly, as well as exactly when to flash it, and for how long.)

13. The NRA publishes several pretty good books on home self-defense for politically-correct Democrats and Republicans. The problem is that, 'Marquis of Queensberry' rules-of-engagement aren't really designed for the most vicious of criminal attacks - Attacks like civil riots and mob engagements.

14. It's nice to, 'have a gun' in order to protect yourself; but, A GUN SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO BECOME, WHAT I LIKE TO CALL, 'A GUN-SHAPED, PERSONAL SECURITY PACIFIER'. Having a gun, ANY GUN, is never enough. You've got to know how to shoot that gun; you've got to know how to maintain it; and you’ve got to be able to put it to the most effective good use, as well.

I've got a considerable supply of spare parts for many of the firearms I own; and, quite frankly, Remington and Winchester have nothing on me. I'm an experienced gunsmith, and an expert ammunition manufacturer, as well! (Now, if I only understood finance!) ;) Still, the most important consideration of all is that YOU'VE GOT TO KNOW HOW TO FIGHT, AND FIGHT WELL, WITH THAT SURVIVAL GUN OF YOURS. (Most likely from inside an urban environment, too.)

15. So - after you know all about firearm basics, and have developed a certain amount of skill in defending: yourself, your family, and the old homestead - what is the single most important self-defense requirement that you must have thought-out in advance and be fully prepared to execute? THAT WOULD BE YOUR EXIT STRATEGY! YOU MUST HAVE AN EGRESS AND WITHDRAWAL PLAN READY-T0-GO; AND, OBVIOUSLY, YOU'RE ALSO GOING TO NEED SOME SORT OF SHOULDER-CARRIED, 'BUG-OUT BAG'; (but, this is a topic for another thread)!

At my home, we've got a heavily wooded backyard with a long stonewall. When continuing to defend the house becomes impractical, it's out the windows and doors, and off into the woodlot we go. If we lived in the city our escape route might be to another floor, across the rooftops, or down an alley, or connecting hallway. (Don't worry, if we survive the initial attack, our chances of making the woodlot are very good!)

The important idea is that many times - but not always - you do NOT want to be forced to defend yourself for an extended period of time from anywhere inside your home. In fact any prolonged engagement will eventually require you to escape the property; and sooner is always better than later.

As I've said, just having a gun is NEVER enough. You have to be able to use it well; you need to be able to fight skillfully with it; and you have to know how to turn your own home (and perhaps your immediate neighborhood as well) into a, 'killing ground'. For anyone who thinks this might, all, be going much too far? No, not in a mob-ruled environment; not, in fact, during any home invasion.

Back in 1990 my family and I experienced a totally unexpected home invasion in which I might have been either killed or seriously wounded if it weren't for (what I am convinced had to be) the, 'Hand Of God'. The fellow was enormous! He was filthy dirty and looked like a vagrant. He, also, had something hidden in his right pocket that I knew I didn’t want to see. He caught me, ‘cold’ while I was hopping around on a pair of crutches; but, in accord with the will of some higher power, it just wasn't my day to die!

That's the other thing: As I'm sure many board members already know: When your number's up, it's up; and, no matter what, you're going to be, ‘checking out’. If I were to say this biblically, it would be, 'The horse is prepared against the day of war; but safety is of The Lord.' (Proverbs 21:31) This is true for all men.


http://www.iwillnotbeavictim.com/flashlight_hold-page.html
http://www.nrastore.com/nrastore/ProductDetail.aspx?c=15&p=PB+01781&ct=e
http://www.nrastore.com/nrastore/ProductDetail.aspx?c=15&p=PB 01765
http://www.nrastore.com/nrastore/ProductDetail.aspx?c=15&p=BK 02290

(First post!) :)
 
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hoarder

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#57
At 75 - 80 yards I'm able to include the use of a shotgun and rifle-slugs.
I bought a 18" long cylinder bore iron sighted barrel for my Remington 870, it was made by Mossberg. I put a rifled 3" slug in it and fired it at my 100 yard target to see what sight adjustment was needed. Kicked pretty good but the slug landed 2" from the bullseye.
I've read that rifled slugs are good almost to 150 yards. Of course I'd rather be shooting an AR at that range.
 

REO 54

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#59
Welcome to our forum Stinger. Good first post. Worthy info to consider.

Eyebone,maybe consider a Havoc 37mm under slung you AR. You can also add a 12 gauge adapter to it,of course it makes it an A.O.W. type weapon, but hey it's for a SHTF event so screw'em
 

DodgebyDave

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#60
I carried an m-203 (40mm launcher) by choice (squad leaders can do that), I got pretty good at launching pyrotechnics through windows

37mm is a pretty handy piece of kit should one get pinned down
 

REO 54

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#61
I also got some 37mm rounds when I picked up a H&R navy signal flare launcher. It's from the 40's vintage,breech load.The rounds where a mix of flares,wood projectiles and few rubber bullet rounds.
All aluminum hulls. The guy said when I bought it that this all came from some armory sell off. Dunno,maybe

Any way Im looking at the reload potential of my own special blend reload "mix".
 

SheepDog68

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#62
Defense weapons are different than weapons for survival which in turn are different than SHTF weapons.

There is of course some overlap, but you need different tools for different jobs.

Guns found on farms back in the 20's-50's are likely good tools for day to day life in the country now known as survival, but just called living during that time.

Many that I have seen leaned in the corner or propped by the door are simple easy to care for, feed, maintain, fix weapons that fed the family, protected the stock and dealt with two legged problems as they showed up.

They varied with the part of the country somewhat, but where all working guns/tools that you lived with day in and day out.

Defense weapons are likely to run heavy into dependable handguns of various sizes, an assortment of shotguns and a few rifles/carbines as needed. You are most likely to have a handgun on you when you see the elephant than anything else.

A shotgun can be useful when you barricade yourself into a room and wait for help or as a portable claymore to open the festivities with. Pumps or autos work for barricades and I use hammered doubles as my always ready, can sit for months at a time/no springs compressed, easily broken down and carried in a bag personal fire breathing dragon. It even fits in the center console of my old dodge when I traveled. A quick double shot to clear the doorway if you find yourself playing catchup and then on to a good Glock or maybe short carbine (take both if you can't decide :s1:)for the rest of the dance.

Rifles/carbines are for hunting (at least for me). I grab them to hunt poachers, thieves, trouble makers and a time or two someone who did a drive by shooting on my house. I have and would again use them to clear my house and out buildings, but in the close and tight I like a handgun and a knife or two, but that is just me.

The day of the cheap AK and ammo is over! I miss it and wish it where different, but it is not to be any time in the foreseeable future. If you have a good one and ammo to match your in good shape.

If your starting now the hundreds (thousands?) of small mom and pop machine shops that put out an ever increasing variety of AR parts along with the large companies can not be ignored. Aero space and other large military industry type companies churn out truck loads of parts during times that would otherwise be slow for them. Once again I miss the good price on AK's, but I am coming around.

Anything else is likely frosting on the cake or from watching scary movies late at night. Cover the most likely for you and your area and work toward the less/least likely and you will be in better shape than most.

As far as an AR yes get one if you can! Buy a used one of known quality to save money rather than the cheapest thing on the shelf. A lot of folks need money right now and many seem to have their guns up for sale. A buddy has been buying them up and will likely double his money during the next scare when all the panicked crowds are begging for an AR.

SD
 

Argentsum

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#63
Smallish 9mm for concealed carry. Hi-Cap .223 for predators. Bolt action .308 for game. .22 LR for fun and practice.

Never got into shot guns. Maybe some day I'll pick one up but for now my needs are met.