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Smith & Wesson Gun Sales Plummet

Scorpio

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#1
Smith & Wesson Gun Sales Plummet as Trump Effect Takes Hold
3 / 27

Bloomberg
Thomas Black 14 hrs ago


Age limits and bans on assault-style rifles are in vogue now, but the biggest threat to gun sales may still be President Donald Trump.

Consumer demand is falling to “new, lower levels,” according to the 166-year-old maker of Smith & Wesson firearms. The company, American Outdoor Brands Corp., is bracing for the downturn by cutting jobs and repaying debt. Rivals, including one plunging into bankruptcy, are contending with the same slowdown.

Call it the Trump slump. The gun industry thrived under President Barack Obama, as firearms enthusiasts expected crackdowns and rushed to stockpile weapons. Those fears have eased -- and sales have fallen -- since Trump won the White House in November 2016. Gunmaker stocks, already on the ropes, took a further hit after the shooting last month at a Florida High School that killed 17 people.

“We will operate our business under the assumption that the next 12 to 18 months could deliver flattish revenues,” American Outdoor Chief Executive Officer James Debney said Thursday on a conference call to discuss earnings.

The gun industry has come under greater scrutiny since last month’s shooting in Parkland, Florida, even if the potential for tighter restrictions on firearms seems lower than when Obama was president.

A social-media movement against the National Rifle Association led to numerous companies cutting ties with the gun-rights group, including Symantec Corp., Hertz Global Holdings Inc., Avis Budget Group Inc. and MetLife Inc.

© Bloomberg Gun Slump
Sales Policies


Dick’s Sporting Goods, Walmart and Kroger said this week they would no longer sell assault-style rifles such as the AR-15, the weapon used in the Florida shooting and made by American Outdoor. The retailers also said they would increase the purchasing age for firearms and ammunition to 21 in their stores.

Despite Trump’s support for gun rights under the Second Amendment, he tweeted this week about potential restrictions. In a meeting with lawmakers late Wednesday, he said some politicians were “petrified” of the NRA. Senator Chuck Schumer, a New York Democrat, called on Trump to support tougher curbs Thursday, saying the gun-rights group has had Republicans in a “headlock for decades.”

By Thursday, the president had tweeted about a “Good (Great) meeting in the Oval Office tonight with the NRA!” The discussion with the NRA’s chief lobbyist suggested that Trump could be shifting position again in a gun-safety debate that has been deadlocked for years.

Read more: Trump meets with NRA a day after urging gun curbs

“Given the more fluid political environment, it’s hard to read demand going forward, particularly given growing grass-roots push for controls on sales” of assault rifles, Cai von Rumohr, an analyst at Cowen & Co., said in a note to investors Friday.

The politics whiplashed the stock Friday. After plunging as much as 12 percent early in the day, shares rebounded and posted gains. A lobbyist for the NRA said the president retreated from some of the gun-control measures he had been speaking about favorably. American Outdoor rose 3.1 percent to $9.70 at 2:26 p.m. in New York. The company fell 27 percent this year through the close on Thursday.

Rival Sturm Ruger & Co. rose as much as 5.6 percent to $47.75, also reversing an earlier drop. Remington Outdoor Co., the iconic gunmaker controlled for years by Stephen Feinberg’s Cerberus Capital Management, announced bankruptcy plans last month.

Lower Profits

Some forms of gun control, including magazine restrictions and strengthened background checks, are unlikely to have much impact on the manufacturer, James Hardiman, an analyst at Wedbush Securities, said in a Feb. 27 report. Still, the buying sprees seen in past years, when gun rights were perceived to be threatened under Obama, haven’t materialized under Trump.

The larger problem is flagging demand. It’s not just politics. There’s also fewer hunters and a diminished sense of urgency around personal protection in an era of declining crime rates.

American Outdoor chopped its profit forecast for the third straight quarter. The company projected earnings of 31 cents to 33 cents a share for the current fiscal year, which ends April 30. That trailed the lowest of six analyst estimates compiled by Bloomberg. Wall Street had been expecting 60 cents a share.

The gunmaker also lowered its sales target for the year to a midpoint of $599 million from a December projection of $662.5 million. Analysts had predicted $655.6 million.

Gun Discounts
“We’ve been adjusting in this challenging market environment and obviously, working really hard internally to get aligned with this market demand,” CEO Debney said.

Debney warned about the sales slump in December, saying the fear-based buying of years past was no longer happening. Slack demand and a glut of inventory were forcing firearm manufacturers to discount heavily, Debney said.

Firearm background checks compiled by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, a proxy for gun sales, fell 8.4 percent last year after increasing in 13 out of the last 14 years. The checks in January were the lowest in six years on an adjusted basis, Debney said.

American Outdoor, preparing for an extended slowdown, has repaid $75 million in recent months and extended the due date on $75 million of notes to August 2020.

Related gallery: The biggest gun companies in the US market


The biggest gun companies in the US market

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/com...trump-effect-takes-hold/ar-BBJLQ7t?li=BBnbfcN
 

ErrosionOfAccord

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#2
I’m turning my attention to quirting ammo. I do kind of want a 1000 yard AR though
 
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gringott

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Just from my experience and opinion, the quaility of S&W guns has plunged the last few years.
I won't be buying any more guns from them.
 

southfork

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Saw SW AR 15s at large gun show a few weeks back, 499 , ar's clip's ammo all came back to earth, now though with new school shooting who knows what prices will do.
 

Son of Gloin

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#7
Just from my experience and opinion, the quaility of S&W guns has plunged the last few years.
I won't be buying any more guns from them.
I have two M&P15's and a j-frame revolver. All three are excellent, my opinion. Except for a couple of other revolvers, that's all the experience I have with SW.
 

the_shootist

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#8
Just from my experience and opinion, the quaility of S&W guns has plunged the last few years.
I won't be buying any more guns from them.
They've always made great revolvers and 'meh' semi autos. I only own SW revolvers. There are much better semi options out there than SW.
 

smooth

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#9
Just from my experience and opinion, the quaility of S&W guns has plunged the last few years.
I won't be buying any more guns from them.
M&P 15 is still a pretty solid purchase for an entry level AR.
 

hoarder

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#10
S&W changed hands about 15-20 years ago. The revolvers made before then were considerably better.
Many firearms companies were bought out in the last couple decades by Jewish interests and the quality plummeted. Sig, Marlin, Remingtom, Kimber, Colt among others. One of their favorite tactics is to muddy the waters with many different offerings, then refuse to support the better earlier models. One has to wonder how many years it takes for plastic firearms to self-destruct.
 

Aurumag

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#11
A buddy and I bought .40 handguns at the same time:

I had my mind set on the SIG P226, but he said it was too expensive, so he settled for the M&P.

He dismantled it, polished every piece, and then we went to the range.

Out of the box, the SIG remains far and away the most superior handgun I have ever fired.

The M&P reminded me of some of the Army issue 1911s; the ones that looked good on the outside, but performed poorly, especially in terms of consistent accuracy.

He regretted the purchase, but never admitted it openly.
 

Scorpio

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#12
Can it not be argued that these quality decreases are readily apparent across the full spectrum of the economy? From guns to cars to weed to food?

Corporate amerika is about extraction, maximum extraction for the least amount of input.

That simple.

Quality is not an option.
 

Goldhedge

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#13
Trump doesn't want gun control, NRA lobbyist says after meeting
Carolyn McAtee Cerbin
Published 5:47 AM ET Fri, 2 March 2018

Is President Trump changing course — again — on gun control?

Trump met Thursday night with a lobbyist from the National Rifle Association, later describing the meeting as "Good (Great)" in a tweet.

Screen Shot 2018-03-03 at 12.59.06 PM.png
 

hoarder

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#14
Can it not be argued that these quality decreases are readily apparent across the full spectrum of the economy? From guns to cars to weed to food?

Corporate amerika is about extraction, maximum extraction for the least amount of input.

That simple.

Quality is not an option.
Very true. What follows is that the beneficiaries of hidden inflation (banksters)control the industries who reduce quality.
 

southfork

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#15
The 40 cal and the 10m never seemed to catch on as popular calibers for some reason.

A buddy and I bought .40 handguns at the same time:

I had my mind set on the SIG P226, but he said it was too expensive, so he settled for the M&P.

He dismantled it, polished every piece, and then we went to the range.

Out of the box, the SIG remains far and away the most superior handgun I have ever fired.

The M&P reminded me of some of the Army issue 1911s; the ones that looked good on the outside, but performed poorly, especially in terms of consistent accuracy.

He regretted the purchase, but never admitted it openly.
 

Usury

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#16
Can it not be argued that these quality decreases are readily apparent across the full spectrum of the economy? From guns to cars to weed to food?

Corporate amerika is about extraction, maximum extraction for the least amount of input.

That simple.

Quality is not an option.
I agree quality is down all around. However I’d argue that’s what most consumer sheep are demanding—the lowest price no matter what. They’re too stupid/foolish to think ahead. If a company doesn’t provide lowest cost then sheep go elsewhere and Corp goes under.
 

Son of Gloin

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#17
If your stuff lasts a long time, they can't sell it to you as often. If you have anything that is of quality in materials and manufacture, take care of it and hang onto it for dear life.
 

stonedywankanobe

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#18
Saw SW AR 15s at large gun show a few weeks back, 499 , ar's clip's ammo all came back to earth, now though with new school shooting who knows what prices will do.
Base PSA 1in7 m4 profile freedom line rifle kits had bottomed at $299 with free shipping for the past 4 months. Meaning you could build your own Ar for around $360.00 minus a rear sight.

Since the latest school shooting those rifle kits have jumped to $319 and no free shipping, so another $28 or so on top iirc.

Kind of off topic but I was in my lgs earlier and spotted my next gun. Ruger GP100 in .44 special. Why .44 special you ask? Well, uh... because I (Ameri) can.
 

hoarder

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#19
Kind of off topic but I was in my lgs earlier and spotted my next gun. Ruger GP100 in .44 special. Why .44 special you ask? Well, uh... because I (Ameri) can.
My most-carried handgun is a Charter Arms 44 special. Very handy size Mountain gun. In the high country I carry a 44 magnum. The Charter Arms is a poor quality firearm, but I love it anyway and carry it in my back jeans pocket often. Where I live there are 4 legged bad guys around and stuffing a gun in my back pocket to go 50 yards to the barn is a habit. No belt, no holster no fuss.
It weighs 21 ounces and the GP100, which I'm sure is a much better made gun, weighs a whopping 36 ounces. It's tempting me but I'm afraid that the weight would put it in the seldom-carried category. I'd have to wear a belt if I carried back pocket.
I love the cartridge.
 

Son of Gloin

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My most-carried handgun is a Charter Arms 44 special. Very handy size Mountain gun. In the high country I carry a 44 magnum. The Charter Arms is a poor quality firearm, but I love it anyway and carry it in my back jeans pocket often. Where I live there are 4 legged bad guys around and stuffing a gun in my back pocket to go 50 yards to the barn is a habit. No belt, no holster no fuss.
It weighs 21 ounces and the GP100, which I'm sure is a much better made gun, weighs a whopping 36 ounces. It's tempting me but I'm afraid that the weight would put it in the seldom-carried category. I'd have to wear a belt if I carried back pocket.
I love the cartridge.
Is that the CA Bulldog you hear so much about?
 

smooth

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#21
Trumps latest comments have pumped up gun sales in my area for sure. A guy I work with all of a sudden wants an AR. I had to go to work for a couple hours this morning to dock a ship. When we were done I met him at the LGS. Only AR's on the rack were $1000+. The fellow behind the counter said they sold 14 S&W M&P15's before 10:00 this morning.
 

hoarder

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Is that the CA Bulldog you hear so much about?
Yes. Beware that Charter Arms changed hands a couple times and only the old ones are of tolerable quality and none of them are on par with old S&W or Ruger. Mine is stainless, I bought it new in the nineties for $280 and the cylinder was sloppy from the factory. No other handgun and caliber is as perfect for my needs as this gun, too bad they are poorly made.
I once had a 38 special Charter Arms revolver and it was excellent, almost on par with J frames. Must have been one of the original ones.
 

stonedywankanobe

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#23
Same here Smooth, seems like people don't want them until it looks like mebe they can't have them. Same with pm's people are nuts!

Said .44, love this thing
IMG_0359.JPG


Hick 45 done a vid on it and really seemed to enjoy it.

Your right Hordy the thing is hefty but I just loved it.
 

Son of Gloin

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Yes. Beware that Charter Arms changed hands a couple times and only the old ones are of tolerable quality and none of them are on par with old S&W or Ruger. Mine is stainless, I bought it new in the nineties for $280 and the cylinder was sloppy from the factory. No other handgun and caliber is as perfect for my needs as this gun, too bad they are poorly made.
I once had a 38 special Charter Arms revolver and it was excellent, almost on par with J frames. Must have been one of the original ones.
Yeah, I understand they can be a little sloppy. Too bad somebody doesn't try to replicate the gun in a lightweight alloy with solid construction and tolerances. A nice, light and durable 44 special revolver would be a good thing to have around, even if it did cost five or six hundred bucks.

I mentioned in another thread that I have the S&W 360PD. It's a j-frame revolver with a scandium alloy frame and a titanium cylinder and it weighs 12 1/2 ounces empty and maybe a pound loaded. It's chambered for .357 mag ammo, if you can stand to shoot the blasted thing with maggies.* I use +P specials, myself. The maggies are just brutal, but it's nice to know I can put them in there if I want to take the punishment.

*I fired just two cylinders of gold dot mag ammo through it once. I couldn't keep a solid grip on it, no matter how tight I held the little rubber grips. It jumped in my hand every shot and I had to adjust my hold every time. From just those two cylinders, the palm of my hand felt pulverized for days afterward. I've seen guys on YT shoot the darn thing with mag ammo, though and did a lot better than me.
 
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gringott

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#25
Trump doesn't want gun control, NRA lobbyist says after meeting
Carolyn McAtee Cerbin
Published 5:47 AM ET Fri, 2 March 2018

Is President Trump changing course — again — on gun control?

Trump met Thursday night with a lobbyist from the National Rifle Association, later describing the meeting as "Good (Great)" in a tweet.

View attachment 100184
Trump the Troll. He trolls everybody. Gun sales down? Trump's for Gun Control and banning stuff and bad mouthing the NRA. Sales go up, Trump's meeting with the NRA and everything is kool again.

The Ultimate Troll.

Plus whomever knows which way the wind is blowing on twitter with Trump a bit in advance could make a fortune buying and selling stocks. Hmmmm.
 

hoarder

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Yeah, I understand they can be a little sloppy. Too bad somebody doesn't try to replicate the gun in a lightweight alloy with solid construction and tolerances. A nice, light and durable 44 special revolver would be a good thing to have around, even if it did cost five or six hundred bucks.

I mentioned in another thread that I have the S&W 360PD. It's a j-frame revolver with a scandium alloy frame and a titanium cylinder and it weighs 12 1/2 ounces empty and maybe a pound loaded. It's chambered for .357 mag ammo, if you can stand to shoot the blasted thing with maggies.* I use +P specials, myself. The maggies are just brutal, but it's nice to know I can put them in there if I want to take the punishment.

*I fired just two cylinders of gold dot mag ammo through it once. I couldn't keep a solid grip on it, no matter how tight I held the little rubber grips. It jumped in my hand every shot and I had to adjust my hold every time. From just those two cylinders, the palm of my hand felt pulverized for days afterward. I've seen guys on YT shoot the darn thing with mag ammo, though and did a lot better than me.
I'm a fan of J frames in 38 special, but don't like 357 magnums in any handgun. I have heard of +P 38 special ammo fired from alloy frame J frames having enough recoil to dislodge bullets from cases enough to prevent the cylinder from turning, I can imagine what a 357 mag would do in them. They better be crimped tight.