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Bigfoot

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#41
As ZZZZ pointed out, if any major bankers were concerned for average people, bills would be redeemable for precious metals or some other real commodity. The peg doesn't necessarily help Chinese workers either. So, central bankers stealing through inflation isn't an American versus Chinese issue. This has been going on, off and on, for thousands of years across many countries.

Funnymoney, I'm trying to understand your position here correctly. You think that China's peg to the USD is a deliberate attempt by TPTB to empower an authoritarian government? If Canada were to peg the CAD to the USD, you think the US would do something punitive to Canada? If yes, what do you suppose that would be?
 
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Zed

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#42
A peg is more of a high intervention 'dirty float' than a firm fixing at some unrealistically advantageous price. You can't simply print bucket loads of Z$ and peg it @ 1:1 USD, that is never going to work. The market must be used to support the peg. Japan has had a dirty float for quite some time.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dirtyfloat.asp
 

Zed

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#43
The Aussie is considered a free-floating currency but in reality, it can become dirty if they choose it to be so...

White paper...

The adoption of a floating exchange rate regime, however, did not mean that the RBA had become indifferent to either the level of, or movement in, the exchange rate, since these can have a powerful influence on important aspects of the economy, particularly economic growth and inflation. As such, the RBA has from time to time intervened in the foreign exchange market.
https://rba.gov.au/publications/rdp/2004/pdf/rdp2004-06.pdf

The US gov would do the same...
 

Joe King

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#44
@Zed , some great posts in this thread. I wish I could thank them all twice. You're battin' 1.000


You guys have benefitted a lot from the continual purchase of UST's etc to support the PEG.
we certainly have.


works for those in control of the narrative and the strings. It works for graft and corruption.
it works for you too, even if you fail to realize it.

Seriously? Cheap.... cars, gas, tech, etc, etc, etc... US citizens have lived way beyond their means due to the effect of the reserve. It blows my mind that US citizens don't recognize that.
The reason for that is the way it is right now, is all most people know. They think it's just the way it's supposed to be and will always be. To know any different means one has studied history and understand the workings of their monetary system.


When/if this breaks down your cost of living will skyrocket.
Damn skippy it will.
...and imho there's no if about, but all when.


it shifts rapidly to a new balance and typically the first mover gains some advantage.
when it happens, the vast majority will be dumbfounded and frozen with panic.


Looks like Don is over the current game and wants to force the end of it, maybe your data is saying the end of the arrangement near anyway.
we've been hearing for years that the yuan will eventually challenge the Dollar, so is it better to wait until such time that the yuan is situated to challenge the Dollar, or start stirring the pot well before that time comes? The way I see it, if we wait, the yuan might win. If we change the game now, that seems much less likely.




lot of people in the West have made out from the arrangement - I'm not denying that point.
All in the US have. Even poor people have it better than they otherwise would, were it not for the Dollars reserve status and the resulting international demand for our Dollars.


The American middle class is on the declin
Got any real data that proves that assertion?
Ie: something other than your personal opinion?


m not sure what you are trying to say.
You Got that right.


and it will tend to lose allot its lower order jobs to the less developed countries.
which is why we need millions more poor uneducated no skill having immigrants from 3rd World nations like all need holes in our heads.


There will be lots of people in the US (most) that don't really get how fortunate they have been or why it has changed.
the vast majority have no clue as to how fortunate they truly are.
 

Zed

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#45
we've been hearing for years that the yuan will eventually challenge the Dollar, so is it better to wait until such time that the yuan is situated to challenge the Dollar, or start stirring the pot well before that time comes? The way I see it, if we wait, the yuan might win. If we change the game now, that seems much less likely.
I'm sure that the US will move hard and fast when they think there is an advantage to do so. You can level many criticisms at the US machine but stupid isn't one of them, even if it doesn't make sense at the time.

We all need to remember that these guys have a different information flow to us rabble out here on the internutz!

@Zed , some great posts in this thread. I wish I could thank them all twice. You're battin' 1.000
Cheers.

I guess there is more incentive to get your head around this stuff if you live out on the edge of the universe. We are going down first if the best looking theory holds up! The slope is feeling slippery at the mo...
 

FunnyMoney

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#46
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Your whole lifestyle, each and every one of you is SUBSIDISED by the arrangement. What don't you get about that?
No we are not. The arrangement around the PEG is completely different than having top dog fiat reserve currency status at the main table.

You seem to want to link those - but we could have top dog status and still not allow any PEG at the main table. The PEG was accepted by the players at the main table because their representatives sold their own nations down the river and took graft for themselves.

I know we had the reserve currency all to ourselves for several decades. That was a result of WWII. I know the big advantage that makes for.

The thread is about the PEG and a nation that did not have that advantage and then was allowed to use it when others were not.


As ZZZZ pointed out, if any major bankers were concerned for average people, bills would be redeemable for precious metals or some other real commodity. The peg doesn't necessarily help Chinese workers ....

Funnymoney, I'm trying to understand ...
I can tell by your questions you already understand the PEG was something that was "allowed" and I put that in quotes because nobody is exactly sure if TPTB arranged it like that or if the PBOC paid off certain big players and select leaders throughout the globe.

Either way or however it happened, yes, trading nations typically don't let their biggest trading partners have that advantage. Canada and Mexico would never be allowed to create a PEG against the dollar and no country would in a fair system. It's actually silly to talk any kind of trade policy at all with a partner who is allowed to arbitrarily control the value of their currency as it relates to others and subsidize beyond the means or desires of those counter parties.

China does all of that and more and has been allowed to do that for so long that the ramifications have now become enormous.

Just the fact that the "status quo" supporters on these boards are fighting the facts tooth and nail should tell you something.

The loss of American manufacturing can be directly attributed to this currency manipulation PEG. The things we bought at Walmart and other places over the last 30 years were priced exceptionally low and destroyed our manufacturing base.

These sell outs and the PEG is in a way another one of those "smoking guns" - look at the way alternative and main stream media treat this - I wouldn't be surprised if they try to remove the word "peg" from the dictionary. Sit down with an Austrian schooled economist and you'll find everything I've been saying is absolutely sound and straight forward economics.

In a fiat world, the fiat money has immense power on both the down side and upside. It is the overriding factor in the economic equations. That is why honest money that can't be manipulated or managed, or at least an equal and balanced trade relationship is required. With the much smaller nations some have mentioned in this thread, things play out differently. Those nations don't have a billion hungry workers, those nations aren't in a position to stock the shelves of every Walmart, target, throughout the nation. And the many other stores that carry a lot of Chinese products.

Nixon and Reagan knew this. Control over the biggest economic factor was relinquished starting with Bush 1 and it was sold as a benefit to Americans to be able to buy trinkets so cheaply as well as a way to bring China out of poverty and into liberty or at least toward that direction. I was there. There were economists who came out and explained how this would be a bad thing. But the deals were made and the people were convinced using the above reasons. They took the deal and the economics were swept under the rug.

Our manufacturing base was destroyed because of this, over the last 30 years or so. In the 1990's we could have woken up and changed course, but with the boom in high tech and the big flows of wealth during those time, while some people were sounding the alarm, most people went with criminal Clinton and didn't care about the rust belt and having a base to build our own stuff from. Bush 2 made things worse when it was agreed to let them in the global merchandising theft and slave labor organization, and well, you know the rest.
 
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Zed

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#47
No we are not. The arrangement around the PEG is completely different than having top dog fiat reserve currency status at the main table..
Yeah, no, no it isn't. It is a response to being the reserve. If you where not the reserve then no one would peg to you. Name a currency that is pegged to anything else but the USD? I can't, Save maybe some Non-Eurozone EU countries and the Euro.

https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-a-peg-to-the-dollar-3305925

You seem to want to link those -
It's not me, they are simply linked, no reserve status no peg required! The Triffin Dilemma drives this.

but we could have top dog status and still not allow any PEG at the main table. The PEG was accepted by the players at the main table because their representatives sold their own nations down the river and took graft for themselves.
You can't do jack about currency pegs. If the pegging gov can manage a peg and they want to do that then all you can do is stop trade, period. Which is destructive to both you...

I know we had the reserve currency all to ourselves for several decades. That was a result of WWII. I know the big advantage that makes for.
.... and it is why pegs exist. Nobody pegs to the AUD!!!!

The thread is about the PEG and a nation that did not have that advantage and then was allowed to use it when others were not.
1. The peg delivers benefits to the US as well as China, it isn't a one-way deal.

2. The peg can only be held within reason, i.e. the economics must support the ability to do it. Meaning that if the government is in the market, and every government is, a float would end up (albeit much less stable) in a similar price area. This was demonstrated by Soro's with the pound when it was overvalued in the European ERM. He smashed it because the economics to support it was very stretched. If someone could smash the ChinaPeg they would... Kile Bass anyone?!

3. Due to point 2 you are overplaying any advantage!

4. 66 countries peg to the USD, all for the same reasons. i.e. Triffin Dilemma China is nothing special or different, just bigger.
 

Zed

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#48
I can tell by your questions you already understand the PEG was something that was "allowed"
NO, you really can't do that much about it.
 

Zed

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#49
Some currencies linked to the dollar came under attack in early 2016 from traders speculating that it’s becoming too expensive to continue defending them.
The Background
There are various systems for managing exchange rates, and some are more stable than others. Panama and Zimbabwe simply use the U.S. dollar as legal tender. Fixed rates are employed in countries from Bulgaria to Saudi Arabia to Venezuela. Singapore and China have employed different types of links to currencies of trading partners via bands that can move up or down. China has mostly used the arrangement to limit appreciation over the last decade, though it’s now allowing the yuan to fluctuate more in response to market forces. Hong Kong’s peg has been seen as virtually impregnable because the total amount of local currency issued is backed by U.S. dollars in reserve, an arrangement known as a currency board. History is full of upheavals. The 1971 “Nixon shock” was sparked when President Richard Nixon abruptly ended the dollar’s convertibility to gold. It led to the end of the post-World-War-II Bretton Woods system that pegged currencies of industrialized countries to the U.S. The U.K. faced a storm in 1992, when investors including George Soros bet it wouldn’t be able to keep its pound within a pre-euro system of linked rates. It gave in on Sept. 16 and allowed the pound to float, a day known as Black Wednesday.
Currency pegs put a central bank at the mercy of another country’s monetary and fiscal policy, so it must generally copy moves on interest rates. There’s less freedom to respond to domestic goals, such as reviving growth, creating jobs or containing prices.
https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/currency-pegs
 

Zed

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#50
I can tell by your questions you already understand the PEG was something that was "allowed"
If you could do something about it other than diplomatic pressure you would have!

US Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner says it is "very important" for China to allow its yuan currency, which is virtually pegged to the US dollar, to be flexible.

"We can't force them to make that change. But it is very important that they let it start to appreciate again," he said in an interview with CNN television overnight.
Note the "virtually pegged", it isn't a peg so much as a dirty float or managed float.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/bus...y/news-story/ee21efff9cc94d4d060c21e811571625

USD/Yuan as you can see it is quite a range of movement.

YuanUSD.png
 

Uglytruth

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#51
Hey I got a really really simple idea. Lets peg all currencies to one troy ounce that is 31.1 grams of pure gold. Silver is pegged at a 20:1 ratio to gold. Problems solved. No games. No manipulation. No BS. No cheating. Simple to understand in any language and FAIR to everyone!

But then.................... that would neuter the banksters...... and they would loose control.
 

ZZZZZ

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#52
Related:

Putin says 'role of dollar' should be revisited in global trade

FRI, JUN 07, 2019 - 9:58 PM

Russian leader Vladimir Putin in a speech during a session of the St Petersburg International Economic Forum on Friday renewed calls to revisit the role of the US dollar in global trade and accused Washington of seeking to dominate the world.

[ST PETERSBURG] Russian leader Vladimir Putin on Friday renewed calls to revisit the role of the US dollar in global trade and accused Washington of seeking to dominate the world.

Speaking at an economic forum alongside Chinese President Xi Jinping, the Russian president called for deep reform, claiming that trust in the dollar had been on the decline.

Changes in the global economy "call for the adaptation of international financial organisations (and) rethinking the role of the dollar which... has turned into an instrument of pressure by the country of issue on the rest of the world," Mr Putin said.

The Kremlin chief - whose country has chafed under numerous rounds of US sanctions - has repeatedly slammed the global financial system established by Washington in the aftermath of World War II.

In a speech at a plenary session, Mr Putin accused Washington of seeking to "extend its jurisdiction to the whole world."

"But this model not only contradicts the logic of normal international communication. The main thing is, it does not serve the interests of the future."

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/go...of-dollar-should-be-revisited-in-global-trade
.
.
 

Uglytruth

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#53
So..... Putin attacks Israel is what he is really saying.........
 

FunnyMoney

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#54
…1. The peg delivers benefits to the US as well as China, it isn't a one-way deal.
2. The peg can only be held within reason,... If someone could smash the ChinaPeg they would... Kile Bass anyone?!
3. Due to point 2 you are overplaying any advantage!
4. 66 countries peg to the USD, ....
Zed, you posted enough questions to start an economics book.

But all the questions only circle around and never speak to the point. Maybe you should read the OP again - I'm not sure how you think the PEG is a good thing for the average worker in America?

For the above...
For #1: It benefits the big corp interests and the wealthy owners of them. It benefits those who take graft and have immense power to take advantage of the very unfair situation. It has some minor short term benefit to consumers to lower their costs temporarily - although job destruction and base manufacturing opportunities disappear over the long term.

For #2: They allowed it. If Russia, Germany, or Argentina had tried it the world would have blockaded their territory if necessary to prevent it. The players at the main table made an agreement to let one player change the colors of their chips at will.

For #3: "Overplaying?" No, the loss of top dog manufacturing and industrial base status is not a trivial loss. This loss is likely to eventually lead to the loss of top dog fiat status as well. You are Vastly Underplaying.

For #4: none of those sit at the main table, they can't destroy anyone's select sector of their economy easily. Could a smaller nation use a PEG to help support a particular small sector? Yes, they could. A small nation that sells widgets and has only a few competitors around the world in those widgets could use a PEG to destroy the widget industry in those other nations, as long as they could keep using the PEG over a long period of time without the other trading partners calling them out and doing things about it.

Hey I got a really really simple idea. Lets peg all currencies to one troy ounce that is 31.1 grams of pure gold. Silver is pegged at a 20:1 ratio to gold. Problems solved. No games. No manipulation. No BS. No cheating. Simple to understand in any language and FAIR to everyone!

But then.................... that would neuter the banksters...... and they would loose control.
While you are on to some very great ideas, Uglytruth, those things don't appear to be anywhere on the radar. The POTUS made some feelers in that direction during the campaign but since then it's been "inside the status quo" economics. The debts continue to increase, the PEG remains and the tariffs will not bring back our manufacturing base from where we are today.

As you said, the banksters have no plans to loose control, they're actually getting stronger by the day.
 
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FunnyMoney

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#55
Related:
Putin says 'role of dollar' should be revisited in global trade
FRI, JUN 07, 2019 - 9:58 PM
...
The demise of "top dog" fiat reserve currency status isn't something that can be maintained without reasons, especially when there are several "big dog" competitors to it.

We held Top Dog fiat status because of these:

  1. Most powerful, still left standing nation after WWII.
  2. Biggest and best manufacturing and industrial base.
  3. Very good education system and creative business culture.
  4. Super powerful military.
  5. Emergence as a safe haven currency - possible replacement to gold for some - globally accepted.
  6. Free nation with the history of liberty where a very wealthy, dollar accumulating person could (if holding enough USD) buy their way into the nation and move their family here too, legally, using the business investment laws on the books. This is a big incentive for upper class people around the world - accumulate dollars for a long term project or plan.

Some of those things still remain. But as time goes on , and given the emergence of other options (Euro, Yen, RMB) and the previously fairly powerful more aged options (Francs, Pound,...), our ability to write checks which never get cashed or at least not for a very long time could greatly diminish over time.
 

Uglytruth

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#56
  1. Most powerful, still left standing nation after WWII.
  2. Biggest and best manufacturing and industrial base.
  3. Very good education system and creative business culture.
  4. Super powerful military.
  5. Emergence as a safe haven currency - possible replacement to gold for some - globally accepted.
  6. Free nation with the history of liberty where a very wealthy, dollar accumulating person could (if holding enough USD) buy their way into the nation and move their family here too, legally, using the business investment laws on the books. This is a big incentive for upper class people around the world - accumulate dollars for a long term project or plan.
1. Due to military might.
2. Decimated through high skilled jobs being looked down upon, underpaid, not respected, technology replacing brains.
3. Decimated through every kid left behind, parents that don't care, latch key kids, failing schools
4. Agree
5. No longer with 22T in debt that they admit to and a couple hundred trillion they won't face.
6. Money = freedom no matter where you are at.

Seems the pillars of communism are well placed and on solid ground........... Lord help where we are heading.
 

FunnyMoney

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#57
...6. Money = freedom no matter where you are at....
just a clarification on #6...

Those who make enough money in places like NK, China, Africa, Latin Am. don't stick around. Sure, if they get super powerful and rich they can stay where they are and protect themselves. But the majority of upper class people don't make it to that level of wealth and will accumulate the USD over long periods of time and then use it to move somewhere else. That plays right into the power of the USD as top dog fiat.

But I want to be clear again, while the PEG and having top fiat reserve status are related and interact with each other, they are not one and the same and they each have their own distinct downstream ramifications and foundations of support.

Back to the OP, the thread is about the PEG - it being a giant advantage and how it was "allowed," how any discussion of it is attacked or ignored as much as possible and any truthful mention of it's formation or reasons for it are quickly written out of the history.
 
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FunnyMoney

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#58
…Seems the pillars of communism are well placed and on solid ground........... Lord help where we are heading.
The truth can set us free - maybe not materially in this world, but the pursuit of the truth is the only thing that can work here in this world as well. So, JMHO, the best strategy is to admit the truth, understand the root causes and educate others as possible. I don't see any other options. That is something that should be pursued not just for the fiat system but for the various other mechanisms installed to the detriment of the workers (like the 4 decade long PEG).

5-D chess, stealth agendas, secret meetings, strategies not grounded in root causes nor correct economic theory are not going to help us. Those are the deceptions, not the truth.
 
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ZZZZZ

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#59
Seems to me that the entire premise and purpose of a "reserve currency" went down the toilet (almost literally) when Trickie Dickie removed the last vestige of the metallic monetary backing of the FRN in 1972.

What is the US "dollar" a reserve pf?

A fiat "dollar" bill isn't worth much beyond wiping your ass with it.
.
.
 

FunnyMoney

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#60
Seems to me that the entire premise and purpose of a "reserve currency" went down the toilet (almost literally) when Trickie Dickie ...

A fiat "dollar" bill isn't worth much beyond wiping your ass with it.
..
So yes, I agree, if you're comparing it with what the constitution says, we are a long way from correct or honest money. And yes, "literally" but not exactly fully recognized at ground level.

Still, the fiat system is different than the PEG. The PEG was like a "specific rule" set up within the dishonest monetary system.
 

Zed

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#61
Zed, you posted enough questions to start an economics book.
... and I thought I was making statements and arguments. Hmmmmmm....

But all the questions only circle around and never speak to the point.
I think you need to read them again, you seem to be misunderstanding what I am saying.

Maybe you should read the OP again -
OK, if you insist.

I'm not sure how you think the PEG is a good thing for the average worker in America?
It's a part of a mechanism that has provided Americans with discounted living costs over seven decades. You seem to want to see it as an isolated thing, which it isn't.

For the above...
For #1: It benefits the big corp interests and the wealthy owners of them. It benefits those who take graft and have immense power to take advantage of the very unfair situation. It has some minor short term benefit to consumers to lower their costs temporarily - although job destruction and base manufacturing opportunities disappear over the long term.
Again you only see one part of the equation. Yes the US has lost lower order jobs to other nations BUT it has developed many higher order jobs off the back of cheap manufacturing overseas. Look at Apple as an example, most of the wealth has been created in and has benefited the US. Apple has leveraged cheap manufacturing to do that. It is a two way street. Add at one end and you lose at the other, the US simply moved up the economic scale.

It has some minor short term benefit to consumers to lower their costs temporarily
... if you call seven decades and significantly discount lifestyle short term and minor. Really dude, you should go and live somewhere else for a while and then maybe you'll get the advantages that the US consumer has had.

For #3: "Overplaying?"
Yes, overplaying. You have taken the comment out of context. You are overplaying the amount of difference in value that a PEG makes. If the currencies floated freely they’d average at a price not hugely different to the peg. The advantage is more in stability than price.

No, the loss of top dog manufacturing and industrial base status is not a trivial loss. This loss is likely to eventually lead to the loss of top dog fiat status as well. You are Vastly Underplaying.
It is a part of the Triffin Dilemma and why being the reserve eventually becomes unsustainable.

Vastly underplaying? NO, I am pointing at the economic forces that drive this dynamic. I am also pointing out that those Americans that have been blind to the advantages delivered by it will be shocked by what happens when it falls apart.

For #4: none of those sit at the main table, they can't destroy anyone's select sector of their economy easily. Could a smaller nation use a PEG to help support a particular small sector? Yes, they could. A small nation that sells widgets and has only a few competitors around the world in those widgets could use a PEG to destroy the widget industry in those other nations, as long as they could keep using the PEG over a long period of time without the other trading partners calling them out and doing things about it.
This isn’t making sense. Pegs can only exist where they are economically supportable, nations still have to have a competitive advantage. Did you notice that China is losing out to Vietnam as the low cost producer? How is the peg going in that regard?

Special Treatment ONLY for China and Nobody Else
Firstly 65 odd nations peg to the dollar and secondly most financial people consider China, like Japan, to be a managed float (dirty float) and not a peg.

China is in no way unique or special on this front and the US has no control over this activity from other nations. There is no permission to peg.

The problems you describe are a function of being the reserve, this comes with many advantages and some disadvantages, as you have pointed out. Triffin Dilemma etc…

At some point your national debt level should break this balance, if Armstrong is correct that will be @ around 2032.
 
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Zed

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#62
Hey I got a really really simple idea. Lets peg all currencies to one troy ounce that is 31.1 grams of pure gold. Silver is pegged at a 20:1 ratio to gold. Problems solved. No games. No manipulation. No BS. No cheating. Simple to understand in any language and FAIR to everyone!

But then.................... that would neuter the banksters...... and they would loose control.
Essentially that was Bretton Woods up until the French called the US out over gold reserves.

Gold is great for our purposes but for a global growing economy, it is too deflationary. FIAT has the inflationary issue, among other issues... neither are perfect by a long shot and I can't think of a solution that is perfect. The fact is we don't have it yet and governments aren't likely to allow it even if we did.

It really does get complicated when you use a credit system and create growth, without which we'd still be in caves...

JMHO.

There is no easy out.
 
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Zed

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#63
From the OP...

Why does China PEG their currency to whatever value they decide?
False premise, they don't and can't.

See currency chart...

YuanUSD.png
 

Joe King

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#64

Zed

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#65
The EURO, Yen, Pound, Franc, USD, and all other major currencies in the world trade on the FOREX in a free floating manner.
The Swiss Franc...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance...ange-rate-in-dramatic-currency-war-twist.html

The Yen is a notorious dirty float.

However, since 1973, the Japanese government has maintained a policy of currency intervention, and the yen is therefore under a “dirty float” regime. This intervention continues until today. The Japanese government focuses on a competitive export market, and tries to ensure a low yen value.
https://currency-history.info/japaneseyen/

ECB...

https://www.reuters.com/article/ecb-intervention-idUSLDE72H0RA20110318

They are all at it, at one time or another!
 
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Zed

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#66
A peg creates an overwhelming advantage for the country managing the peg and this is across all aspects of the global economy.
No it doesn't because everyone has the same choice and they are limited by their economic ability to do so.

This is why we have the term "Currency Wars"..... !?!
 

Zed

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#67
@Zed , as for him telling you to re-read the OP, keep in mind that it starts with a question.
...and questions imply a lack of understanding.
Yep, well I did it anyway...

Sometimes I learn something new doing this stuff so it is all good!
 

Joe King

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#68
They are all at it at one time ore another!
Because governments, like people, will do what is in their own best interests.

It's like you said, it's all about finding some kind of competitive advantage.
 

Zed

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#69
Because governments, like people, will do what is in their own best interests.

It's like you said, it's all about finding some kind of competitive advantage.
Yeah, like they say... governments don't have friends they have interests.
 

Zed

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#70
Seems to me that the entire premise and purpose of a "reserve currency" went down the toilet (almost literally) when Trickie Dickie removed the last vestige of the metallic monetary backing of the FRN in 1972.

What is the US "dollar" a reserve pf?

A fiat "dollar" bill isn't worth much beyond wiping your ass with it.
.
.
It has morphed in operating details a bit. The Petrodollar setup was a genius move on the part of the US. You still have the deepest, most liquid and safest debt market in the world. While that is true money will always seek cover in USD when and where needed. You are still top dog despite moves to get out of USD trade by the Asians.

An Asian Currency Bloc might be the beginning of something to worry about but for now the Chinese alone are not trusted.
 

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#71
...Did you notice that China is losing out to Vietnam as the low cost producer? How is the peg going in that regard? .
Nam didn't have the labor force that China had. Nam wasn't given over to the profit seekers, it was given over to blood sacrifice.

The currency is not pegged to them and the trade relationship for them is not the same as it is at the main table.

You made a lot of statements in your post and I read them and I re-read your other posts. I don't agree with your analysis on the majority of your points but these are not new ideas or only my ideas. These are ideas I've gathered from studying both schools of economics and reading the writings of others. Your economics doesn't match up with mine - this isn't GIM1, here you will be able to believe whatever you want to and there's little chance anyone here will sway you. There was a thread just like this one at GIM1 and the majority of the analysis agreed with my points in general and no, they were not exclusive to me. Those other posters probably explained the economics much better than I do. But here it seems everyone defends the status quo. That characteristic is a new one and since I've been away, well I guess I don't mind yet.

It's not a big economic leap that I am re-iterating (something rarely found today, but can be still found in books and the narratives of the past).

I am not the first person on the planet to point out the "weirdness" of the PEG and the downstream ramifications of it.

Essentially, all I'm saying is that net-net, the PEG has been a disaster for the American worker and our ability to spring off an industrial base. Those other tech and info leaps and other advantages you post about would have happened anyway without the decades long PEG.

JMHO, DYODD
 

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#72
...

It really does get complicated when you use a credit system and create growth, without which we'd still be in caves...

.
If Nixon hadn't started the ball rolling, … if Bush hadn't signed off on the dotted line....

IF there had never been a PEG, …. we would be in caves?

No, we would be stronger, much stronger than we are today. We would have a tech base and a manufacturing base. We wouldn't have so many homeless or 3 job families.
 

FunnyMoney

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#73
Because governments, like people, will do what is in their own best interests.

It's like you said, it's all about finding some kind of competitive advantage.
Finding?

As if the nations are playing on an even playing field or even at the same table., As if there's no behind the scenes money corruption involved.

Read the OP again - they were "allowed" to have the advantage. Bush signed the document, I saw it with my own eyes and everyone said that he signed it.
 

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#74
Again you only see one part of the equation. Yes the US has lost lower order jobs to other nations BUT it has developed many higher order jobs off the back of cheap manufacturing overseas. Look at Apple as an example, most of the wealth has been created in and has benefited the US. Apple has leveraged cheap manufacturing to do that. It is a two way street. Add at one end and you lose at the other, the US simply moved up the economic scale.
When this happened the US created debt slaves & companies outsourced the manufacturing work to China and are simply using their slave labor force.
Building up a few while tearing down the middle class that was created by Henry Ford & enslaving the Chinese to build widgets is only a good solution for a few. Once the few have enough money to live they then save / invest. That don't "spread the wealth" by any means.

My guess is most people on this site are way ahead of most economically. Most probably run their households on $20,000 - $40,000 yr. Once they have extra $ it's not being spent. The working poor have mortgage or rent, car payments, tattoos, beer, cigs and credit card debt, vehicle debt and more debt. There labor and existence will be feasted upon until they have nothing left to give. Now what group are the banksters going to serve........
 

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#75
China seems to have mastered the global plantation slave labor system. You wonder why Billy Boy Clinton was the one to accelerate the Most Favored Nation status with China in the 90s; also GATT and NAFTA. He didn't need those accelerations of slave labor systems to have a good US economy. The Soviet breakdown and peace dividend was going to be very good for us regardless. I'm rethinking how I voted in 1992...Instead of voting for someone who was in jail at the time, maybe I should have voted for the spook Bush!

 

Zed

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#76
Building up a few while tearing down the middle class that was created by Henry Ford
The destruction of the middle class is only the end of the process, for many decades before it meant a better lifestyle for all in the US.

I'm not saying it is good, bad or anything, or anybody's fault... just that it is the way it works.
 

Zed

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#77
Read the OP again - they were "allowed" to have the advantage. Bush signed the document, I saw it with my own eyes and everyone said that he signed it.
Source it...

Bush didn't have the power to "allow" a currency peg. Trade deals maybe but again they are universal.
 

Zed

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#78
If Nixon hadn't started the ball rolling, … if Bush hadn't signed off on the dotted line....

IF there had never been a PEG, …. we would be in caves?

No, we would be stronger, much stronger than we are today. We would have a tech base and a manufacturing base. We wouldn't have so many homeless or 3 job families.
Do you deliberately misunderstand things?

With no credit or economic growth, we'd still be in caves (figuratively speaking). Imagine a world where Henry Ford couldn't raise capital to get started! or any other entrepreneur you want to name. We need a mechanism to get capital from savers to doers... or would you rather nothing happens?
 

Zed

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#79
Nam didn't have the labor force that China had. Nam wasn't given over to the profit seekers, it was given over to blood sacrifice.
... and yet it is taking business away from China. So what is your point?

The currency is not pegged to them and the trade relationship for them is not the same as it is at the main table.
... and yet they compete. Again, your point is?

You made a lot of statements in your post and I read them and I re-read your other posts. I don't agree with your analysis on the majority of your points but these are not new ideas or only my ideas. These are ideas I've gathered from studying both schools of economics and reading the writings of others. Your economics doesn't match up with mine - this isn't GIM1, here you will be able to believe whatever you want to and there's little chance anyone here will sway you. There was a thread just like this one at GIM1 and the majority of the analysis agreed with my points in general and no, they were not exclusive to me. Those other posters probably explained the economics much better than I do. But here it seems everyone defends the status quo. That characteristic is a new one and since I've been away, well I guess I don't mind yet.
... yeah, but you got facts wrong. No theory to speak of really.

Both schools? Are there only two?

... anywho, this is observed fact not economic doctrine.

It's not a big economic leap that I am re-iterating (something rarely found today, but can be still found in books and the narratives of the past).

I am not the first person on the planet to point out the "weirdness" of the PEG and the downstream ramifications of it.

Essentially, all I'm saying is that net-net, the PEG has been a disaster for the American worker and our ability to spring off an industrial base. Those other tech and info leaps and other advantages you post about would have happened anyway without the decades long PEG.

JMHO, DYODD
Yeah but you are wrong, it isn't "the peg"... which isn't a peg anyway, it's a managed float. In a free-floating world, you'd have exactly the same problem because of the reserve system.

Why this peg obsession? It's not a peg, Hong Kong is a peg! Why is it so hard to understand that it is way bigger issue than a 'managed currency' which THEY MUST BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO MANAGE.

This whole thing is a spin off of the way the reserve currency system is operated, peg or no peg, managed float or no managed float
 

Zed

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#80
How you can look at this chart of the USD/Yuan exchange rate and still believe it's pegged is totally beyond my comprehension!

Managed float/ dirty float... yeah sure... but a peg! 6 to 7 is ~ 17% variation... that is not a fixed ratio!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DAMN IT!

YuanUSD.png