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FunnyMoney

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#1
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ZZZZZ

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#4
The US pegged its "currency" too, up until 47 years ago. That was a good thing. :oriental:

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ZZZZZ

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#5
You notice the way alternative media, and main stream media back far away from that reason - nobody will get close to it. t.
Well, not "nobody." A few people aren't afraid to speak out.

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Joe King

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#6
- why give the advantage over to them for 5 decades?
We're not "giving" them anything. The Chinese gov simply decided to do it. Ie: it's not as though they are required to ask us first.

Also, the fact so many nations do peg their currencies to the USD is merely a sign of the Dollars strength relative to other currencies. If we wanted to, we could peg ours to theirs.
 

Joe King

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#7

Joe King

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#8
Whether they are #1 or #3 or #9 on the list of globally accepted currencies,, whatever the number, they're definitely one of the top dogs
They are part of "other" on this graph.
Global_Reserve_Currencies.png


If you really want to do something, work on getting China out of the WTO.


Here is a list of the 5 biggest trade promises China has broken with the WTO (World Trade Organization), including intellectual property theft and hacking, that pushed the US over the edge and caused the tariffs and trade war.
 

Joe King

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#9
Everyone knew China would break those promises. They try to blame Clinton and run the story as "my side..." propaganda.
Clinton had exited the scene over a year earlier. Bush signed the deal that everyone knew they would break.
I don't really care who was in office at the time it was signed, but since you brought it up, Clinton was one who helped finish up the deal that had been being worked on since '86. It was during Clinton's 2nd term that trade with China really started ramping up.
 

Joe King

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#10
As for China or any other nation pegging their currency to ours, imho we should like that they do so. The more ways the rest of the World uses our Dollar, the better it is for us. We want the World to use it.

Besides, by pegging to our Dollar, it's like they are trying to imitate us, and isn't it said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?
 

Joe King

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#11
Your been grasping at straws for a while now in this thread.
grasping at straws (along with shooting from the hip) is your realm. Lol


You really want to say that the mainstream sources with lots of views and pretty videos know what's going on and the truth, forget it.
you actually think that vid I posted is MSM? Lol lol

A you only PEG for your top currency to suck jobs out of America and into a far away place and you knew it. It's treason and there's still a few members here who know it, despite your constant distractions from the truth.
China pegging their currency to ours is not treason.

News flash! Any nation can peg their currency to anything they want.
 

ZZZZZ

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#13
Ron Paul was pretty cool , RP is still an inspiration, but there was nothing about the PEG...

Entirely entertaining though.
Sorry, my bad, I posted the video in the wrong thread.
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Joe King

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#14
As for pegging to the Dollar, there's more then 60 nations that do so. (A full third of all nations) That drives demand for our Dollar, as each of those nations must have a sufficient number of Dollars in order to maintain the peg. If no nations pegged to the Dollar, there would be much less demand for Dollars and we would have much higher inflation as a result.

So other nations using the Dollar is not really such a bad thing. At least not under the current monetary system.
Ie: we as Americans get the long end of the stick in this deal.
 

Zed

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#15
Why does China PEG their currency to whatever value they decide?
It isn't that simple, they must have the ability to hold the peg. Typically they try and hold a range BUT to support that they have to do things like buy UST bills. They have been forced to move the peg by the market in the past and ultimately if they lose the tools to keep the peg it will fail.

Remember Soro's against the pound...

https://priceonomics.com/the-trade-of-the-century-when-george-soros-broke/

... essentially he broke the peg.
 
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Joe King

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#16
The EURO, Yen, Pound, Franc, USD, and all other major currencies in the world trade on the FOREX in a free floating manner
Zed is much more succinct with his words than I.
It isn't that simple, they must have the ability to hold the peg.
Exactly. They have to have enough Dollars to make it so.

@FunnyMoney , if I say that five of my acorns are worth one of your Dollars, I better have one of your Dollars for every five of my acorns. Otherwise everyone will know that five of my acorns are in fact not worth one of your Dollars.
...and will start treating my acorns accordingly.

If I don't want that to happen, people treating my acorns like they're Bolivars, I gotta get my hands on Dollars or Dollar equlivants. Thereby driving up the overall demand for Dollars.
In case you hadn't noticed, under the current monetary system the US needs as much International demand for Dollars as it can get. In that regard, China soft pegging to our Dollar helps us.

Yes, it also helps them to keep their exports cheaper than they would otherwise be, but that's just their part of it that is good for them.

Or at least that's how I see it.



@FunnyMoney , want to get the Chins to not peg to the Dollar? Quit making it be in their advantage to. If Europe were to become their biggest customer, and instead of Dollars, boatloads of Euros were flowing into China in exchange for cheap consumer goods, they'd probably peg to the Euro instead. Why? Because it would be in their best interests to.

As it stands now, we send them boatloads of Dollars so it makes it easy for them to want to do it. Do you not do what's in your and yours best interests? That's what China is doing. Right now it is in their best interests to soft peg to the Dollar.
 
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gliddenralston

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#17
A little thread wander....Today Tramp claimed stock market would be 10,000 points higher if not for the Fed Reserve...in reality its his trade war with China and possibly with Mexico causing all the problems...trade wars have already cost everything his big tax break saved...I've never seen anything like him, when things go good it's all because of him, when they go bad its always someone else's fault!!!
 

Zed

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#18
But it still does not negate the fact that the PEG is a very giant advantage and was allowed for nearly 5 decades.
So has holding the worlds reserve currency! You guys have benefitted a lot from the continual purchase of UST's etc to support the PEG. Just looking @ one end of it isn't fair. + if it where not doable it would not be, you can't peg @ a rate that is unsustainable, just like a clothes peg it can only take so much pressure. It is what it is because it works for the both of you, kinda... until it doesn't then everyone is worse off!
 

Zed

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#19
It works for those in control of the narrative and the strings. It works for graft and corruption.
More than that, it underwrites your lower cost of living. If the Chinese invested elsewhere and let the currency float much higher it would be more expensive to live in the US. Trust me you get a lot cheap over there, you should try living in the antipodes!

It's a circle jerk!

While American workers did see benefits from having the #1 reserve currency for many decades, that point is absolutely irrelevant to the PEG or to the overall propaganda (mostly just silence) about it.
Seriously? Cheap.... cars, gas, tech, etc, etc, etc... US citizens have lived way beyond their means due to the effect of the reserve. It blows my mind that US citizens don't recognize that. When/if this breaks down your cost of living will skyrocket.

Yes the Chinese are milking it BUT you guys have been TOTALLY complicit.

This is what they call in game theory a "stable disequilibrium". When it becomes unstable (now?) it shifts rapidly to a new balance and typically the first mover gains some advantage. Looks like Don is over the current game and wants to force the end of it, maybe your data is saying the end of the arrangement near anyway.

Don't expect any change to be great for the US worker in the short to medium term. JMO but this is gonna hurt. Que --> war/distraction from left field! Surprise, surprise!
 

Zed

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#20
However, the vast majority of those who made the most are not the average American worker.
Oh come now, no cheap Chinisuim and no Walwart! etc, etc, etc...

The PEG is a very giant advantage and was allowed for nearly 5 decades.
Cheap interest rates underwritten by Chinese purchases of US debt have also benefited all in the US for five decades! You might call that a giant advantage. We certainly can't get the sort of mortgage arrangements you seem to take for granted. That is just for starters!! This system has supported your lifestyle which is subsidized by the rest of the world. AKA Triffin Dilemma/Paradox

You seem blind to one half of the arrangement and to the fact that even if they floated the currency would be not so far away from where it is BECAUSE of China recycling profit back to the US. AKA They have the ability to hold the peg because it isn't unrealistic!
 

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#21
Most people are not big time shareholders of Walmart. Walmart doesn't pay the same kind of wages in terms of SOL as did the jobs the American manufacturing worker used to.
Huh? NOT THE POINT! You are buying wayyyyyyyy cheap due to the situation. Every dollar you don't have to spend is a pay bump!
 

Zed

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#22
The "mortgage arrangements" are something that's done for a stealth agenda, those are set according to other factors mostly and are not a result of the PEG. It's off topic, but look at those nations who don't have fixed rates or where debt transfers to a debtor's children.
It's a pay bump! We pay more and we can't fix for more than 5y and it costs!! That is more we have to earn to get the same thing!
 

Zed

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#23
I'm not sure what you are trying to say. You are trying to support the PEG and / or make it seem like the PEG is good for both nations when the facts don't show that if you are talking about the average American worker.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Your whole lifestyle, each and every one of you is SUBSIDISED by the arrangement. What don't you get about that?
 

Uglytruth

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#24
Like Zed's posts because it's a refreshing not in the US point of view. that makes me try to understand his point more.


All "currencies" should be pegged...... to gold or silver!
The bible and constitution both agree with that.
 

Zed

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#25
Like Zed's posts because it's a refreshing not in the US point of view. that makes me try to understand his point more..
It's all tied in with the reserve and the Triffin Dilemma, it is the way that an empire pulls resources to its center these days. The flip side is that the US has to remain at the top of the tree in terms of higher economic functions and it will tend to lose a lot its lower order jobs to the less developed countries. i.e. exactly what has happened. It is an advantage but it has a cost, just like there is a cost for China and an advantage. When things change, and we try to find a new balance, that is when the pain comes. People will be displaced in terms of work, lifestyle etc for the interim. That never plays well and that is when we will likely fight. There will be lots of people in the US (most) that don't really get how fortunate they have been or why it has changed. They will fall prey to politics that blames others and really it isn't that simple. We are all good at thinking we are genius when it goes our way but not so good at thinking we are not so genius when it doesn't... just ask any trader about that! LOL :D

Anyway... it is just a part of the dynamics of the system, it ain't the US peoples fault any more than it is a Chinese or Australian citizens fault. In fact, I don't think they "got it" when the did the Bretton Woods agreement, Triffin pointed it out later.
 
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Uglytruth

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#26
That's why the rich have "multigenerational wealth" and time is secondary to them.......... average joe wants his relief in weeks & months not decades.
They think a $0.50-$1 hr raise will change their lives.
 

Zed

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#27
That's why the rich have "multigenerational wealth" and time is secondary to them.......... average joe wants his relief in weeks & months not decades.
They think a $0.50-$1 hr raise will change their lives.
The rich understand that wealth is productive capacity and they seek to own and control that. Their wealth supplies them with money whereas the poor think that money is wealth, which it isn't, it is just a temporary store of it. The wealthy invest, the poor consume. It is a mindset and not one you adopt until you generate enough surplus income and you are wise enough not to consume it... what to do with it, how to build a future with it, etc. Most simply consume it in the here and now.
 

Bigfoot

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#28
As ZZZZ pointed out, if any major bankers were concerned for average people, bills would be redeemable for precious metals or some other real commodity. The peg doesn't necessarily help Chinese workers either. So, central bankers stealing through inflation isn't an American versus Chinese issue. This has been going on, off and on, for thousands of years across many countries.

Funnymoney, I'm trying to understand your position here correctly. You think that China's peg to the USD is a deliberate attempt by TPTB to empower an authoritarian government? If Canada were to peg the CAD to the USD, you think the US would do something punitive to Canada? If yes, what do you suppose that would be?
 
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Zed

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#29
A peg is more of a high intervention 'dirty float' than a firm fixing at some unrealistically advantageous price. You can't simply print bucket loads of Z$ and peg it @ 1:1 USD, that is never going to work. The market must be used to support the peg. Japan has had a dirty float for quite some time.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dirtyfloat.asp
 

Zed

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#30
The Aussie is considered a free-floating currency but in reality, it can become dirty if they choose it to be so...

White paper...

The adoption of a floating exchange rate regime, however, did not mean that the RBA had become indifferent to either the level of, or movement in, the exchange rate, since these can have a powerful influence on important aspects of the economy, particularly economic growth and inflation. As such, the RBA has from time to time intervened in the foreign exchange market.
https://rba.gov.au/publications/rdp/2004/pdf/rdp2004-06.pdf

The US gov would do the same...
 

Joe King

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#31
@Zed , some great posts in this thread. I wish I could thank them all twice. You're battin' 1.000


You guys have benefitted a lot from the continual purchase of UST's etc to support the PEG.
we certainly have.


works for those in control of the narrative and the strings. It works for graft and corruption.
it works for you too, even if you fail to realize it.

Seriously? Cheap.... cars, gas, tech, etc, etc, etc... US citizens have lived way beyond their means due to the effect of the reserve. It blows my mind that US citizens don't recognize that.
The reason for that is the way it is right now, is all most people know. They think it's just the way it's supposed to be and will always be. To know any different means one has studied history and understand the workings of their monetary system.


When/if this breaks down your cost of living will skyrocket.
Damn skippy it will.
...and imho there's no if about, but all when.


it shifts rapidly to a new balance and typically the first mover gains some advantage.
when it happens, the vast majority will be dumbfounded and frozen with panic.


Looks like Don is over the current game and wants to force the end of it, maybe your data is saying the end of the arrangement near anyway.
we've been hearing for years that the yuan will eventually challenge the Dollar, so is it better to wait until such time that the yuan is situated to challenge the Dollar, or start stirring the pot well before that time comes? The way I see it, if we wait, the yuan might win. If we change the game now, that seems much less likely.




lot of people in the West have made out from the arrangement - I'm not denying that point.
All in the US have. Even poor people have it better than they otherwise would, were it not for the Dollars reserve status and the resulting international demand for our Dollars.


The American middle class is on the declin
Got any real data that proves that assertion?
Ie: something other than your personal opinion?


m not sure what you are trying to say.
You Got that right.


and it will tend to lose allot its lower order jobs to the less developed countries.
which is why we need millions more poor uneducated no skill having immigrants from 3rd World nations like all need holes in our heads.


There will be lots of people in the US (most) that don't really get how fortunate they have been or why it has changed.
the vast majority have no clue as to how fortunate they truly are.
 

Zed

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#32
we've been hearing for years that the yuan will eventually challenge the Dollar, so is it better to wait until such time that the yuan is situated to challenge the Dollar, or start stirring the pot well before that time comes? The way I see it, if we wait, the yuan might win. If we change the game now, that seems much less likely.
I'm sure that the US will move hard and fast when they think there is an advantage to do so. You can level many criticisms at the US machine but stupid isn't one of them, even if it doesn't make sense at the time.

We all need to remember that these guys have a different information flow to us rabble out here on the internutz!

@Zed , some great posts in this thread. I wish I could thank them all twice. You're battin' 1.000
Cheers.

I guess there is more incentive to get your head around this stuff if you live out on the edge of the universe. We are going down first if the best looking theory holds up! The slope is feeling slippery at the mo...
 

Zed

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#33
No we are not. The arrangement around the PEG is completely different than having top dog fiat reserve currency status at the main table..
Yeah, no, no it isn't. It is a response to being the reserve. If you where not the reserve then no one would peg to you. Name a currency that is pegged to anything else but the USD? I can't, Save maybe some Non-Eurozone EU countries and the Euro.

https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-a-peg-to-the-dollar-3305925

You seem to want to link those -
It's not me, they are simply linked, no reserve status no peg required! The Triffin Dilemma drives this.

but we could have top dog status and still not allow any PEG at the main table. The PEG was accepted by the players at the main table because their representatives sold their own nations down the river and took graft for themselves.
You can't do jack about currency pegs. If the pegging gov can manage a peg and they want to do that then all you can do is stop trade, period. Which is destructive to both you...

I know we had the reserve currency all to ourselves for several decades. That was a result of WWII. I know the big advantage that makes for.
.... and it is why pegs exist. Nobody pegs to the AUD!!!!

The thread is about the PEG and a nation that did not have that advantage and then was allowed to use it when others were not.
1. The peg delivers benefits to the US as well as China, it isn't a one-way deal.

2. The peg can only be held within reason, i.e. the economics must support the ability to do it. Meaning that if the government is in the market, and every government is, a float would end up (albeit much less stable) in a similar price area. This was demonstrated by Soro's with the pound when it was overvalued in the European ERM. He smashed it because the economics to support it was very stretched. If someone could smash the ChinaPeg they would... Kile Bass anyone?!

3. Due to point 2 you are overplaying any advantage!

4. 66 countries peg to the USD, all for the same reasons. i.e. Triffin Dilemma China is nothing special or different, just bigger.
 

Zed

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#34
I can tell by your questions you already understand the PEG was something that was "allowed"
NO, you really can't do that much about it.
 

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#35
Some currencies linked to the dollar came under attack in early 2016 from traders speculating that it’s becoming too expensive to continue defending them.
The Background
There are various systems for managing exchange rates, and some are more stable than others. Panama and Zimbabwe simply use the U.S. dollar as legal tender. Fixed rates are employed in countries from Bulgaria to Saudi Arabia to Venezuela. Singapore and China have employed different types of links to currencies of trading partners via bands that can move up or down. China has mostly used the arrangement to limit appreciation over the last decade, though it’s now allowing the yuan to fluctuate more in response to market forces. Hong Kong’s peg has been seen as virtually impregnable because the total amount of local currency issued is backed by U.S. dollars in reserve, an arrangement known as a currency board. History is full of upheavals. The 1971 “Nixon shock” was sparked when President Richard Nixon abruptly ended the dollar’s convertibility to gold. It led to the end of the post-World-War-II Bretton Woods system that pegged currencies of industrialized countries to the U.S. The U.K. faced a storm in 1992, when investors including George Soros bet it wouldn’t be able to keep its pound within a pre-euro system of linked rates. It gave in on Sept. 16 and allowed the pound to float, a day known as Black Wednesday.
Currency pegs put a central bank at the mercy of another country’s monetary and fiscal policy, so it must generally copy moves on interest rates. There’s less freedom to respond to domestic goals, such as reviving growth, creating jobs or containing prices.
https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/currency-pegs
 

Zed

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#36
I can tell by your questions you already understand the PEG was something that was "allowed"
If you could do something about it other than diplomatic pressure you would have!

US Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner says it is "very important" for China to allow its yuan currency, which is virtually pegged to the US dollar, to be flexible.

"We can't force them to make that change. But it is very important that they let it start to appreciate again," he said in an interview with CNN television overnight.
Note the "virtually pegged", it isn't a peg so much as a dirty float or managed float.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/bus...y/news-story/ee21efff9cc94d4d060c21e811571625

USD/Yuan as you can see it is quite a range of movement.

YuanUSD.png
 

Uglytruth

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#37
Hey I got a really really simple idea. Lets peg all currencies to one troy ounce that is 31.1 grams of pure gold. Silver is pegged at a 20:1 ratio to gold. Problems solved. No games. No manipulation. No BS. No cheating. Simple to understand in any language and FAIR to everyone!

But then.................... that would neuter the banksters...... and they would loose control.
 

ZZZZZ

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#38
Related:

Putin says 'role of dollar' should be revisited in global trade

FRI, JUN 07, 2019 - 9:58 PM

Russian leader Vladimir Putin in a speech during a session of the St Petersburg International Economic Forum on Friday renewed calls to revisit the role of the US dollar in global trade and accused Washington of seeking to dominate the world.

[ST PETERSBURG] Russian leader Vladimir Putin on Friday renewed calls to revisit the role of the US dollar in global trade and accused Washington of seeking to dominate the world.

Speaking at an economic forum alongside Chinese President Xi Jinping, the Russian president called for deep reform, claiming that trust in the dollar had been on the decline.

Changes in the global economy "call for the adaptation of international financial organisations (and) rethinking the role of the dollar which... has turned into an instrument of pressure by the country of issue on the rest of the world," Mr Putin said.

The Kremlin chief - whose country has chafed under numerous rounds of US sanctions - has repeatedly slammed the global financial system established by Washington in the aftermath of World War II.

In a speech at a plenary session, Mr Putin accused Washington of seeking to "extend its jurisdiction to the whole world."

"But this model not only contradicts the logic of normal international communication. The main thing is, it does not serve the interests of the future."

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/go...of-dollar-should-be-revisited-in-global-trade
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Uglytruth

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#39
So..... Putin attacks Israel is what he is really saying.........
 

Uglytruth

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#40
  1. Most powerful, still left standing nation after WWII.
  2. Biggest and best manufacturing and industrial base.
  3. Very good education system and creative business culture.
  4. Super powerful military.
  5. Emergence as a safe haven currency - possible replacement to gold for some - globally accepted.
  6. Free nation with the history of liberty where a very wealthy, dollar accumulating person could (if holding enough USD) buy their way into the nation and move their family here too, legally, using the business investment laws on the books. This is a big incentive for upper class people around the world - accumulate dollars for a long term project or plan.
1. Due to military might.
2. Decimated through high skilled jobs being looked down upon, underpaid, not respected, technology replacing brains.
3. Decimated through every kid left behind, parents that don't care, latch key kids, failing schools
4. Agree
5. No longer with 22T in debt that they admit to and a couple hundred trillion they won't face.
6. Money = freedom no matter where you are at.

Seems the pillars of communism are well placed and on solid ground........... Lord help where we are heading.