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stacking modern US commemoratives? ?

Fjpod

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#1
Simply from a stacking POV, would it make sense to stack modern commemoratives instead of bullion?
 

Silver Art

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#2
I think a lot of it depends on what type of premium that you pay for the US commemoratives. However, if you can buy a US commemorative for a low premium over melt, then you should pull the trigger on the purchase. However, I have seen some high premiums on some US commemorative because that a lot of them that I saw were slabbed with PCGS or NGC slabs but DYODD by shopping around.
 

EO 11110

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#3
Simply from a stacking POV, would it make sense to stack modern commemoratives instead of bullion?
yes, imo US coins are superior to bullion

they meet the definition of a silver dollar....and they have US gov backing for anti-counterfeiting
 

Fjpod

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#4
Well, doing a quick analysis of prices from ...pmex
Silver Eagles $20.54 per ounce
Modern US Commems $24.00 per ounce (price extrapolated based on coin being .77 ounce pure silver)
90% US Silver $19.34 per ounce (again, price extrapolated on coin being .715 ounce pure silver)

So, basing the decision on the prices from this one large company, the best value is US silver would seem to be 90%. But...if one could pick up US commems on ebay for under 20 bucks, it might be worth it.
 

Ahillock

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#5
If you spend time on eBay and get their offers you can frequently get these for just a few $ over melt and even significantly under melt. I would rather have these than some generic round. Just my $0.02.
 

97guns

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#6
tough to unload for any premium too so expect to sell for less than melt value,

i got out of all my silver commemoratives, sold them for barely over melt on ebay
 

CrimsonGuardJay

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#7
Collectible type coins will always have many advantages over bars and rounds, even if bought with a moderate premium.
 

Silver Art

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#8
Collectible type coins will always have many advantages over bars and rounds, even if bought with a moderate premium.
It is not always the case with every collector coin/bar but, generally speaking, some "collectible" gold and silver bars/coins will hold their premiums fairly well in downward trending spot market.
 

Fjpod

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#9
So, A***x is selling modern silver dollar commems for about $17.50. My LCD always beats their prices, but he doesn't carry these. Right now he is offering Morgans at about $23 and Peace for $22. Silver content and value is the same. Mintages of the commems are generally a lot less. There are many selling on ebay but at much higher premiums. Usually, I buy his standard 90% for market, currently $13 times face.

So, regular 90% is the best value, but I can't help but feel that the commems are a good value. Why do they sell for so much less than Peace and Morgans?
 

savvydon

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#10
So, regular 90% is the best value, but I can't help but feel that the commems are a good value. Why do they sell for so much less than Peace and Morgans?
I think it is a combination of factors. First, there have been so many commems produced over the past 30 years that the market is a bit flooded. Second, I think there is a sense that, while the current commems are non circulating legal tender, the silver dollars of a century ago were real money. There is a historic significance to the Morgan and Peace dollars. This historic significance factors into a little bit of extra 'numismatic value' that is responsible for the premium paid for an old time, albeit common, silver dollar. Note the regular 90% silver has the lowest premium because, while it is old time money, the US is still making these coins today, just not containing any precious metal any more.

Having said that, many of the designs on the modern commemoratives are nice, the coins are generally in uncirculated condition, and they are .999 silver. I think $17.50 for them is a bargain.
 

oldgaranddad

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#11
Savvydon and others have posted good advice. Buy the bargains if you can. Buy the ones you like for your enjoyment. Buy the key pieces at good price if you can but buy regular bullion as close to spot as you can for a majority of your purchases. The bullion, keys and bargains will be your best profit producers.
 

Fjpod

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#12
I think it is a combination of factors. First, there have been so many commems produced over the past 30 years that the market is a bit flooded. Second, I think there is a sense that, while the current commems are non circulating legal tender, the silver dollars of a century ago were real money. There is a historic significance to the Morgan and Peace dollars. This historic significance factors into a little bit of extra 'numismatic value' that is responsible for the premium paid for an old time, albeit common, silver dollar. Note the regular 90% silver has the lowest premium because, while it is old time money, the US is still making these coins today, just not containing any precious metal any more.

Having said that, many of the designs on the modern commemoratives are nice, the coins are generally in uncirculated condition, and they are .999 silver. I think $17.50 for them is a bargain.
Actually, these modern silver dollars are only 90%, something like .745 troy ounce of silver. So, they are not as good a buy as regular 90%, but a much better deal than Peace or Morgans. Compared to ASEs, they price out about the same ounce for ounce for silver....but the mintages of the commems are much lower.
 

savvydon

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#13
Actually, these modern silver dollars are only 90%, something like .745 troy ounce of silver. So, they are not as good a buy as regular 90%, but a much better deal than Peace or Morgans. Compared to ASEs, they price out about the same ounce for ounce for silver....but the mintages of the commems are much lower.
I stand corrected. In addition to the low mintages, many commemorate people/institutions that may carry meaning for the collector.
 

Fjpod

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#14
I picked up half a dozen today for about $17.50 from the big A. A good price I think for US backed coinage in Proof or BU. I'll report back about which ones I got and their condition.
 

Fjpod

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#15
I have not received my coins yet, but the big question is: If I were to sell them to a dealer or back to A****, are they going to price them as junk 90% silver, or more like Morgans and Peace dollars.

I suppose I will ask my LCD, who is normally a very fair person. He always beats the prices at A****. Last year or so, I bought $100 face of 90% from him, and he was a little short of $100, so he threw in about $20 face of Silver ATB quarters in the mint holders. He said they weren't worth any more than regular 90% . I guess I have my answer. But still, dollar coins seem to command a premium?

Morgans, I can understand the "collector value". Peace dollars?? Why should they sell for more than regular 90%?
 

savvydon

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#16
I have not received my coins yet, but the big question is: If I were to sell them to a dealer or back to A****, are they going to price them as junk 90% silver, or more like Morgans and Peace dollars.

I suppose I will ask my LCD, who is normally a very fair person. He always beats the prices at A****. Last year or so, I bought $100 face of 90% from him, and he was a little short of $100, so he threw in about $20 face of Silver ATB quarters in the mint holders. He said they weren't worth any more than regular 90% . I guess I have my answer. But still, dollar coins seem to command a premium?

Morgans, I can understand the "collector value". Peace dollars?? Why should they sell for more than regular 90%?
Peace dollars were minted nearly a century ago and are prized for their beauty and historical significance.

Modern commemoratives have their own premiums, less than Morgan/Peace dollars but more than 90%.

Keep in mind the best way hold the value of your silver is to HOLD IT. There will always be dealer buy/sell spreads - that's how they make a living. If you must sell, best time to do it is when everyone else is buying.
 

Joe King

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#17
If you must sell, best time to do it is when everyone else is buying.
In other words, buy when others don't want it so that you can sell into demand when they do.

Same as with anything that one actually wants to make money on. Those that run to "get in" as the price takes off are your future customers.
Then you be their customer on the next bottom.
 

Fjpod

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#18
Makes sense. Fact is, I will likely never sell.

Just have to hope the heirs will do the right thing. Now what are the chances of that happening? Lol.
 

Joe King

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#19
Just have to hope the heirs will do the right thing. Now what are the chances of that happening? Lol.
Almost zero. Almost every case I've ever heard of when people inherit stuff like that, they usually want it all converted into cash.....right now. They have no care as to whether the market is up or down. They just see it as cash they cannot currently spend.


Even giving PM's as gifts usually just means that as soon as the recipient needs cash for something, it will soon be sold.
...and typically for less than what it's worth. Seen that personally numerous times. Better to just give cash and save them a trip to the pawn shop or jewelry store.
 

Joe King

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#20
^^^ Which is why if anyone plans on NEVER selling and having it to leave to heirs, don't do it mon!

Enjoy that stuff yourself. The goal should be to have spent it all by the time you die, because you probably won't be thrilled if you could know how they'll handle your stash or what they'll end up spending it on. You'll have sacrificed in order for it all to end mostly being wasted.


This is why I found the Duck's story so sad. Odds are all his stacking is likely gonna end up having been for nothing. A potentially tragic lesson for stackers everywhere.
 

Fjpod

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#21
^^^ Which is why if anyone plans on NEVER selling and having it to leave to heirs, don't do it mon!

Enjoy that stuff yourself. The goal should be to have spent it all by the time you die, because you probably won't be thrilled if you could know how they'll handle your stash or what they'll end up spending it on. You'll have sacrificed in order for it all to end mostly being wasted.


This is why I found the Duck's story so sad. Odds are all his stacking is likely gonna end up having been for nothing. A potentially tragic lesson for stackers everywhere.
A lot of truth to what you say. Reminds me of an old friend who used to say, it was his life's goal, "to die owing a million dollars"....not owning a million, but having spent all his own, and owing somebody else a million.
 

savvydon

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#22
^^^ Which is why if anyone plans on NEVER selling and having it to leave to heirs, don't do it mon!

Enjoy that stuff yourself. The goal should be to have spent it all by the time you die, because you probably won't be thrilled if you could know how they'll handle your stash or what they'll end up spending it on. You'll have sacrificed in order for it all to end mostly being wasted.
There is something to be said for this. I think the real fortune you leave family is your time, your care, and whatever of your value system you can pass along to them. The amount of goods you leave them might affect their speed limit, but the most important thing is to try to teach 'em the rules of the road.
 

Fjpod

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#23
Got my dollars from A**** today. It only took 4 days.

Of seven coins ordered, there were only 2 duplicate coins. Most are proofs, one or two uncs. Variety of P, D, S. They are all of the most common mintages, except maybe the two Olympic coins....but that doesn't raise value anyway.

All seemed in "perfect" condition except one coin had a dark spot on the edge.

They are about what I expected. I know it seems nobody likes to collect/stack these, but to me it seems a low cost way to stack silver that is technically US legal tender.
 

stonedywankanobe

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#25
Good lookin stuff Sirsavv. I picked up what I believe to be a proof like 1892 CHD that I will try to get a good pic of for 6 bucks at the lcs. Thinking it slipped through the cracks. Maybe it's a proof even and I'm serious.
That's a nice set though.
 

savvydon

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#26
Good lookin stuff Sirsavv. I picked up what I believe to be a proof like 1892 CHD that I will try to get a good pic of for 6 bucks at the lcs. Thinking it slipped through the cracks. Maybe it's a proof even and I'm serious.
That's a nice set though.
Definitely would like to see a pic of what you picked up.

There have been a ton of modern commems minted. A couple cost a bit but most can be picked up for dirt cheap, not too much over spot, as Fjpod has pointed out. Anyway, here are two more pics (both upside down again because I'm a special kind of guy). The top pic covers 1983-1994. The earlier pic I posted covers 1995-1999, and the bottom pic covers 2000-2010. Within a few years I should have another frame's worth of 'em. They look great on the wall of a study or living room.

IMG_0619.JPG

IMG_0620.JPG
 

stonedywankanobe

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#28
SirSavv i didn't forget but ive been having issues loading pics from my crap phone lately. Just can't get a pic that shows how good this thing mirrors in hand. It has a minor nicks but other than that it's the nicest of any half I've plucked from the raw half box at the lcs. 1892.

20161011_190546.jpg



6 bucks!

20161011_190035.jpg


Reverse later maybe pic doesn't want to load.
 

savvydon

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#29
Jeez, Stoney, you may not be the world's finest coin photographer but you certainly have good instincts.

I'll be damned if that thing doesn't look like a proof. I can't be sure looking at the photos you have but it sure looks like a possibility. Out of the millions of coins struck, about 100 are thought to be proofs. A PR61 example sold on Heritage for $2350 less than a year ago. Do me a favor and get that coin checked out by someone reputable. If you can't find someone locally either send it in for professional grading or send it over to me for a closer look.

Outrageous score! :2 thumbs up:
 

stonedywankanobe

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#30
Wait till Andial hears that ol wanka may have a wide brim half dollar here! It is a fantastic looking coin in hand and imo has never been cleaned. The fields both ob and re are mirror like and the devices frosty. Ship has all lines intact on the sails and my eye just cant spot any wear anywhere. Also has a blueish hue about it.
So it breaks down like this, my lcs guy grades stuff he sells in the shop but he has tried to feck me more than once on some ms Barber quarters and I've watched him skin folks alive many times over and don't want to give him the time of day.
I suppose I could send it off to be pro graded but I wouldn't know where to start but may look into it.
If your interested Saavsir I'd have no reservations about letting you have a peek at this joker. There are a only few I'd even consider letting look and you sir are a stand up fellow in my book.
You hereby have my written permission to eye feck it if you'd like.
Wouldn't have been so worked up about it but it stands out like a sore thumb next to any of my other Colombian halves.
Let me know sir.
 

Fjpod

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#31
What would you buy?....Proof modern Silver dollars at $16.75 or circulated Peace dollars for $24?
 

stonedywankanobe

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#32
The Mpd's look like the deal to me. My pcs is still getting 20 mebe moar for theirs.

Average circulated Peace dollar = meh imvho.
 

GOLDBRIX

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#33
REMEMBER: Just because there is a limited supply of an item; commemorative or coin or round does NOT necessarily make DEMAND.

It takes BOTH to make a profit.
 

stonedywankanobe

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#34
That's a fact GB. Avg Morgan's are 25bucks here. Peace dollars are the same price as modern commems. All silver eagles except 87 and 96 are 24 each.

I've been getting after a few choice coins from the early yrs at a better price than I've seen online.
Thinking the 90's coins will appreciate sometime before i die.
 

savvydon

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#35
Wait till Andial hears that ol wanka may have a wide brim half dollar here! It is a fantastic looking coin in hand and imo has never been cleaned. The fields both ob and re are mirror like and the devices frosty. Ship has all lines intact on the sails and my eye just cant spot any wear anywhere. Also has a blueish hue about it.
So it breaks down like this, my lcs guy grades stuff he sells in the shop but he has tried to feck me more than once on some ms Barber quarters and I've watched him skin folks alive many times over and don't want to give him the time of day.
I suppose I could send it off to be pro graded but I wouldn't know where to start but may look into it.
If your interested Saavsir I'd have no reservations about letting you have a peek at this joker. There are a only few I'd even consider letting look and you sir are a stand up fellow in my book.
You hereby have my written permission to eye feck it if you'd like.
Wouldn't have been so worked up about it but it stands out like a sore thumb next to any of my other Colombian halves.
Let me know sir.
PM sent.
 

GOLDBRIX

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#36
Almost zero. Almost every case I've ever heard of when people inherit stuff like that, they usually want it all converted into cash.....right now. They have no care as to whether the market is up or down. They just see it as cash they cannot currently spend.
Even giving PM's as gifts usually just means that as soon as the recipient needs cash for something, it will soon be sold.
...and typically for less than what it's worth. Seen that personally numerous times. Better to just give cash and save them a trip to the pawn shop or jewelry store.
COR...RECT!!! When my grandfather died he left approx. 300 Morgan and Peace silver dollars he'd collected as a grocery store owner.
My uncle, The Executor of the estate, instead of simply splitting the SDs between him and the two other siblings equally took them two the bank my grandfather had his accounts and deposited the SDs into the Savings Account One for One ( at the time SDs averaged $7.00 each). :bang head:
I was already a Silverite but I did not hear what he had done until after the estate was settled. :bang head:

I had collected my own until that bad boating accident occurred. :blew up: cry: :don't know:
 

Joe King

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#37
My uncle, The Executor of the estate, instead of simply splitting the SDs between him and the two other siblings equally took them two the bank my grandfather had his accounts and deposited the SDs into the Savings Account One for One ( at the time SDs averaged $7.00 each). :bang head:
I was already a Silverite but I did not hear what he had done until after the estate was settled. :bang head:
Did he at least find out later what he had done? Hopefully he knows better now not to exchange $2100 for $300?
 

GOLDBRIX

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#38
Did he at least find out later what he had done? Hopefully he knows better now not to exchange $2100 for $300?
He too is now in a better place. IDK if the siblings smartin' him up. I never got the chance to ask him.