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TAEZZAR witnesses a Cessna 414a crash into Yorba Linda, Calif. home

Someone_else

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#41
The small plane ascended to about 7,800 feet before it crashed about 10 minutes after taking off from the Fullerton Municipal Airport, National Transportation Safety Board investigator Maja Smith said. Its wrecked fuselage ended up in a residential backyard.
Note the 7800 feet (MSL in California?) That is plenty of altitude to glide to a safe landing. And "small plane"?! Bullshit. Any "cabin class" plane is NOT small. I think a 210 is almost above "small", but I will listen to arguments.
 

Goldhedge

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#42

Uglytruth

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#43
Most rules for aircraft are to save the people on the ground.
 

tigerwillow1

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#44
Note the 7800 feet (MSL in California?) That is plenty of altitude to glide to a safe landing. And "small plane"?! Bullshit. Any "cabin class" plane is NOT small. I think a 210 is almost above "small", but I will listen to arguments.
Will you also listen to agreement? As soon as I heard "small plane" and "414" I started yelling at the television. If it was an engine out situation, you really have to screw up badly to lose control with that much altitude cushion.
 

arminius

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#46
He was 75. How possible is a heart attack?
 

skychief

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#47
I think one of the fuel tanks had a faulty gasket on the cap and av-gas vapors were leaking out. Lightning-strike hits the vapors leaking from the wing-tank and - BOOOOM!!! - instant fireball in the sky, the 414's airframe is compromised and begins to break up, just like the video depicts.

Hey... everyone's speculating, right?
 

Zed

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#48
That was Bob Hoover and more of an angel than a pilot. There's a lot of distance between a Sunday pilot and Bob Hoover. I wonder if the prop came off in air? I've heard of that happening do to the stress of takeoff.
Thanks.

So that means the plane I was watching was most likely a Rockwell Shrike Commander.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Rockwell+Shrike+Commander+hoover

He did some impressive stuff in that plane, including a bunch of "no nos" like turning into the dead engine. He did most all his stunts with two, one then no engines. Out of the whole show it was that mundane looking twin and his flying that I remember. Oh and some loon doing an inverted ribbon cut just above the runway in a sailplane.
 

Unca Walt

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#49
Back to TAEZZAR's plane crash:

I just found out. Just to sum it in a nutshell:

THE GUY WAS A TOTAL ASSHOLE

He was in the bottom 1% of fliers in competency. He was as crooked as a line of Spanish infantry.

Grounded several times by the FAA. Claimed he was IFR. (He wasn't <<-- and the difference between VFR and IFR is an ENORMOUS GULF of knowledge and ability.) It is the difference between a Learner's Permit and a real license.

He changed his name several times... Fucking crook. Stupid. Arrogant...


aaannnd: HE DED.

Click on the link to see what a thoughtless jerk he was.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/p...rous-flying-before/ar-BBTmdNS?ocid=spartandhp
 
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TAEZZAR

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#50
I just found out. Just to sum it in a nutshell: [B said:
THE GUY WAS A TOTAL ASSHOLE[/B]
Nice detective work, Unca. I wondered what kind of an asshole would be caring false credentials.
 

newmisty

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#51
A pilot killed in a California crash was initially identified as a retired Chicago police officer. CPD says it has no record of him.

The man piloting a small plane that broke apart over a Southern California neighborhood had false credentials identifying him as a retired Chicago police officer, authorities said Tuesday, but they still had no immediate answers for the cause of the crash. Antonio Pastini was killed when the twin-engine plane he was piloting broke up shortly after takeoff and fell in pieces in Yorba Linda, igniting a fire in a home where four people died on Sunday. Pastini, 75, was initially identified as a retired officer but Chicago police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said there were no records of him working for the department.

Orange County sheriff's spokeswoman Carrie Braun said the credentials recovered from Pastini were not legitimate, but that the pilot was indeed Pastini. Aviation safety experts cautioned against drawing early conclusions about the cause of the crash. "At this stage you don't make assumptions. You let the evidence lead you where it leads you," said John Cox, a former commercial pilot and a veteran crash investigator who is head of the consulting firm Safety Operating Systems. National Transportation Safety Board investigators have been collecting parts of the aircraft, the plane's records and information about Pastini, who was described as a commercial pilot with an instrument flight rating.

Preliminary information showed the plane took off around 1:35 p.m. Sunday from Fullerton Municipal Airport, made a left turn and climbed to an altitude of 7,800 feet (2,377 meters) before starting to descend over Yorba Linda. Weather was intermittently rainy across Southern California during the weekend, but specific conditions the flight encountered were not immediately known.

Observers said the plane initially appeared intact when it fell through a cloud ceiling at an altitude of about 2,000 to 3,000 feet (600 to 900 meters), investigator Maja Smith said. "Witnesses say that they saw the airplane coming out of a cloud at a very high speed before parts of the airplane such as tail and subsequently wings starting to break off," she said. The Cessna 414A has good reputation, said Cox, who said he has flown similar Cessnas since the 1970s. In-flight break ups are uncommon, and causes can range from metal fatigue to instrument failure and forces induced by the pilot, he said. He said the break up may have begun earlier than was apparent to the witnesses. "Small pieces may have come off that are leading up to the cataclysmic break up that people see. You need to make sure that the airplane was fully intact when they first see it," he said. "As an investigator you have to be careful about that." Losing control of an airplane can also lead to a break up. "If you lose control of an airplane you can put enough load on it that it will actually fail, something will break," Cox said. One of the first things that might fail in that situation, he said, is a horizontal stabilizer — the structures that look like small wings on the tail. "Once one of them comes off the loads then on the airplane will exceed what it can then withstand and other pieces will fail due to structural overload," Cox said.

Photos of the wreck showing the outer portions of the wings apparently snapped off are consistent with the type of forces wings are subjected to with the loss of one or more horizontal stabilizers and the airplane loses aerodynamic balance, he said. Video showing puffs of smoke erupting in the sky as the plane fell were consistent with an in-flight break-up rather than an in-flight fire aboard the plane, Cox said. Witnesses described the plane as sounding like a missile or a racing motorcycle. Cox said that could be the result of the engines no longer being under control. The victims inside the home have yet to be publicly identified.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-chicago-police-officer-california-plane-crash-20190205-story,amp.html
 

TAEZZAR

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#52
Aviation safety experts cautioned against drawing early conclusions about the cause of the crash. "At this stage you don't make assumptions. You let the evidence lead you where it leads you," said John Cox, a former commercial pilot and a veteran crash investigator who is head of the consulting firm Safety Operating Systems. National Transportation Safety Board investigators have been collecting parts of the aircraft, the plane's records and information about Pastini, who was described as a commercial pilot with an instrument flight rating.
I wish they would have taken that same attitude toward the most disastrous, double, jet aircraft, crash in world history - 911
 

Goldhedge

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#53
Well, I suspect he was in the clouds and didn't trust his instruments.

He got 'blindsided' by losing sight with the ground and tried to compensate.

Kind of what they said Kennedy Jr. did? Got lost in space and couldn't tell up from down and screwed up.

Which is why the break up in the air - extreme loads.... G forces...

But what do I know?
 

Someone_else

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#54
Observers said the plane initially appeared intact when it fell through a cloud ceiling at an altitude of about 2,000 to 3,000 feet (600 to 900 meters), investigator Maja Smith said.
For whatever reason, the NON-IFR asshole pilot flew into a cloud. My certificate is VFR, and I looked at clouds as if they were made of bricks and barbed wire. Or poison gas. To me, clouds were danger. I guess my training worked.
"Witnesses say that they saw the airplane coming out of a cloud at a very high speed before parts of the airplane such as tail and subsequently wings starting to break off," she said.
And I am not surprised that a non-IFR pilot could lose control in a cloud. That is, a loss of control that leads to catastrophic failure of the airframe.
 

Someone_else

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#55
He got 'blindsided' by losing sight with the ground and tried to compensate.
I see we are thinking along similar lines. Even VFR over clouds can be less than safe (for a VFR guy like me). Is the cloud cover "really" your horizon? Better trust the attitude indicator, and cross verify with the other instruments.
 

TAEZZAR

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#56
Well, I suspect he was in the clouds and didn't trust his instruments.

He got 'blindsided' by losing sight with the ground and tried to compensate.

Kind of what they said Kennedy Jr. did? Got lost in space and couldn't tell up from down and screwed up.

Which is why the break up in the air - extreme loads.... G forces...

But what do I know?
GH, he was below the ceiling.
I took this photo from my friend's home.
1549759214127.png
 

Unca Walt

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#57
TAEZZAR -- The plane was very probably in the shit by the time it became visible to you as it left the clouds.

I am going to recount MY OWN near fuck-up right here:

I was in a Cessna 150 with my older son. We decided to fly up the Floriduh coast awhile and stop in at a small airplane patch for a hambooger.

I was a VFR pilot at the time. (That means, look out the window to see where you are going.)

So there is Himself, flying along in the bright sunshine... and being careless, I thoughtlessly flew into a cloud at about 2000 feet. It suddenly looked like someone had painted the windows of my little spam-can with white paint.

Amusement turned to icy fingers down my back. I felt a "push" on my ass in the seat. That hadda mean I was climbing. Yup. The engine started to labor. Hard and scary. The horn went off (trust me the stall warning horn is as scary as the alarm Sigourney Weaver said, "That is a VERY BAD sound!"). I realized I was very near a stall.

Pushed forward on the yoke to get airspeed back up so the plane did not stall and turn into a brick. OK... but now I felt the seat floating away from me. By the roar, I could tell we were in a dive.

OK, I realized that I was completely out of control of the airplane. With the last of my reasoning brain, I focused on ONE INSTRUMENT AND NO OTHER as the salvation for us. I felt pushes from left and right, and could feel we were going in a circle...

Look at this pic. See that ONE GUAGE just to the bottom right of the control column that says "Vertical Speed"?

cessna.jpg


It was all I had left. Brainwise. TINS. I focused SOLELY on that little white arrow, working VERY hard to keep it juuussst slightly above the "zero" line.

And flew the plane for several minutes while it circled and tilted and whatnot... but it kept climbing slowly. Finally, we broke out of the white paint, and the world reassembled itself.

Now that I was above the cloud, flying was once again easy-peasy. So I got back on the correct heading and looked -- and found -- a hole in the clouds where I could see the ground. Flew down through that hole and tootled along until we got to Hamboogerville Airplane patch.

This, Pilgrims, was on a beautiful sunny day with gorgeous puffy clouds. No violent crosswinds, no rain, no black of night.

Had I not been able to focus on that one needle, we would have been in the News At 5:00.

A point to make very clear: I was stressing the dogshit outa that Cessna with those uncontrolled maneuvers. But a Cessna 150 is a lot like a Mini-Cooper.

The plane the arrogant bastard was flying had a triple shitload more stress on the same materials both planes were made of. He was going far faster, had two engines to fuck with, had a half-ton of passengers...

Where I had time and minuscule-but-juuust barely sufficient ability, he did not.

So his inability to pilot a plane almost certainly put enough stress on it (oh -- it failed inspections, too, remember?) to bust it.

Pilot error.
 

Unca Walt

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#58
Here is additional information to non-pilots (or VFR pilots):

The desperate method I used to keep us in the air...

...won't get you your IFR.

Your instructor will get in your plane with you, hand you a hood to put on (so all you can see is instruments)… and he will take out a soap suction-cup thingy and stick it over an instrument.

This simulates instrument failure. OOP. Can't see through a soap dish.

For IFR, you have to be able to take off, fly to some point, do some circles left and right, climb into a stall that turns your plane into a bowling ball, and so on... then fly back and land.

ALL OF THIS WITHOUT ONCE HAVING A LOOK OUT THE WINDOW. Plus, some of the instruments "won't work".

See the vast diff betwixt VFR and IFR?
 

TAEZZAR

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#59
Unca, I agree with you to the most part. Yes, he was an arrogant shithead. Yes, he was only VFR. But he had no passengers & I think as he was only a few miles out of Fullerton airport, he did not get enough altitude to get into the clouds, yes I am guessing.
I spent a lot of hours in my dad's Skylane 172, never got my ticket. Dad was IFR, and I could tell a couple of stories, or I might have posted them previously. When I was at the controls, the instrument that I had to pay attention to was the artificial horizon bar.
Once we had a fighter jet come up in front of us, from out of the clouds, at about 1/4 mile away, that will get your attention.
It will be a year if/when we here the results of the gov. investigation & I'll bet on pilot error, along with losing an engine. He seemed barely competent to pilot a plane, of any sort.
 

newmisty

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#60
Update:

Pilot in Deadly California House Crash Had License Suspended Twice UPDATE

LOS ANGELES—The pilot whose plane broke apart and crashed into a Southern California home, killing five people, was disciplined for dangerous flying years earlier, it was reported on Feb. 8. Antonio Pastini, 75, of Gardnerville, Nevada, was flying home after visiting his daughter and granddaughter on Sunday when his Cessna began coming apart and debris slammed into a Yorba Linda home, which caught fire. Four people inside the house died. The cause of the crash is under investigation.

Years earlier, Pastini, then using the name Jordan Albert Isaacson, had his license twice suspended by the Federal Aviation Administration, the Los Angeles Times reported Friday, citing records kept by the Library of Congress. Pastini’s daughter, Julia Ackley, said her father’s birth name was Jordan Isaacson, but she didn’t say why he changed it. She wouldn’t address the police credentials. “I’d prefer not to comment, and let the investigators do their job,” Ackley told KABC-TV. “My father is exactly who he said he was.” She said he was a restaurant owner and an experienced pilot who flew regularly from his home in Nevada to visit family in California. National Transportation Safety Board investigators have been collecting parts of the aircraft, the plane’s records and information about Pastini, who was described as a commercial pilot with an instrument flight rating. In 1977, Pastini had his pilot’s license suspended for 120 days after he flew from Las Vegas to Long Beach, California, in cloudy and icy weather and falsely told an air traffic controller that he had “IFR clearance” that indicated he was capable of flying the route with instruments. Pastini disregarded airspace rules and posed “a potential threat to himself, his passenger and other users of the system,” wrote an administrative law judge, Jerrell R. Davis.

In 1980, Pastini lost his license for 30 days after Davis found that his plane was behind on inspections, carried only an expired temporary registration and was “unairworthy” because of a hydraulic fluid leak from a break and other problems, the Times said.

The Times said the FAA confirmed that Isaacson was Pastini. The agency said he submitted two name changes to the FAA: first in 1991 from Jordan Albert Isaacson to Jordan Ike Aaron, then in 2008 to Antonio Peter Pastini. Pastini told friends, family, and even newspapers that he was a retired Chicago police officer. But Chicago police have said he never worked for them and a Chicago police badge he was carrying when he crashed had been reported lost in 1978.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/pilot-in-deadly-california-house-crash-had-license-suspended-twice_2795576.html