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Taking Candy from Babies--Inherited Gold

Krag

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#1
I see quite a bit of this; a widow or her kids walk into or contact a "reputable" coin shop, etc., and they get far less than the gold, silver and numismatics are worth.

Take this comment for example:

"Had a customer (widow) bring her late husband's collection to the shop last year from a referral and a prior phone conversation. I was expecting to see mostly modern mint packaged sets, as that was about all that had been described prior to arrival. In the course of attempting to help her cart the many boxes full of material in from her vehicle, when I opened the liftgate of her minivan, the first box I reached for was an uncovered shoebox with a large zip lock bag in it. The bag had been in plain sight and contained over 20 - 1 ounce gold Eagles and Krugerrands. The look on her face when I told her that this bag alone was worth 25K - 30K was priceless. She had no clue before my remarks." http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=913015

I see rare currency that dealers have picked up for a fraction of fair market value. They can pull out Greensheet on national currency as "type" but the small towns, unusual serial numbers etc. are where they make the big bucks.

How do others feel about this, do the sellers have only themselves to blame for not doing their research or joining sites like this? Too many "hate the internet" so will never get the information they need.

:15_1_70v:

KRAG
 

WhyKnow

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#2
Over on realcent, there is a poster that has a whole meme going. His premise is the wife doesn't care nor deserve it anyway. She spent her husband's life nagging about his stupid, worthless coins taking up space. Now he rests peacefully in the grave. May God rest his soul....

Same thing with guns: "My greatest fear is that when I die, my wife will sell the guns for what I told her I paid."

Leave notes (hidden from thieves) that explain what's what and how to figure value.
 

pitw

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#3
I see it from many angles. First as much as you hear about buyer beware the same can be said about sellers. I dislike the idea of old lady's being taken and the ask myself who got taken for them to have the items. It takes all kinds to make the world we live in and the term "you can't save them all" comes to mind. I've paid more than the asking price for some stuff I've bought and have sold others for far to little but life goes on after each deal.
 

Montecristo

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#4
It's karma.

You treat others as you would like to be treated and it will come back to you.

You cheat and take advantage of people, it will also come back to you some day.
 

TnAndy

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#5
I've been to estate auctions and seen things go WAY high (IMHO).....but also for nearly nothing.

Went to one last fall, and they had a 6' Woods finish mower that the only bid on it was 20 bucks ! These sell used for 800-1000. Auctioneer was just about to 'hammer down', and I bid 35.....and got it. There was simply no interest in it. With a 10% auction fee, I've got less than 40 bucks in it.

I'll put it on Craig's List this spring, and get 500 easy.
 

Usc96

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#6
Sadly, there are dealers out there who are not so honest. That's true of every profession, but there are some truly sleazy folks out there who would take advantage of that widow if the opportunity presented itself. Hell, there are traveling shows that set up in motel ballrooms whose whole business model is to separate the vulnerable from their valuables. :mad:
 

TnAndy

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#7
Wife asks me all the time about all my tools. "WHAT am I gonna do with all this stuff if you croak ?"

I told her there is a list of all the stuff and the price to put on it in the shop file cabinet. Do NOT use an auction....simply have an estate sale with the prices clearly marked on each tool. Ad for the paper reads as follows:

WOODWORK ESTATE SALE !!

Woodworker/farmer/sawmill Guy died. His tools are now for sale, Saturday, xx/xx/xxxx.

First come, first served, no early sales.

Partial List:

Woodmizer LT40 portable sawmill. (You will need vehicle with 2" ball to haul)
W/blade sharpener/setter

Shop tools:

Powermatic 10" Table saw 5hp 1ph
Powermatic Shaper 5hp 1ph
Rockwell 18 4kn head Planer 5hp 1ph
Horizontal Air Compressor 5hp 1ph
72" Jointer
Heavy Radial arm saw
2 Motorized miter box saws
60" Stroke sander.
18" Rockwell Bandsaw
Williams/Hussy molder
Drill press
Miller Bobcat welder
Miller Mig welder
Set of oxy/acet tanks/torch
LOTS of small power tools...drills, sanders, saws, etc.
Large assortment of mechanics tools
Chainsaws and related parts/chains/grinder/etc
 

viking

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#8
Wife asks me all the time about all my tools. "WHAT am I gonna do with all this stuff if you croak ?"

I told her there is a list of all the stuff and the price to put on it in the shop file cabinet. Do NOT use an auction....simply have an estate sale with the prices clearly marked on each tool. Ad for the paper reads as follows:

WOODWORK ESTATE SALE !!

Woodworker/farmer/sawmill Guy died. His tools are now for sale, Saturday, xx/xx/xxxx.
Why not just let her new husband use them? :ahhhhh:
 

Krag

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#9
If I were the dealer I would be sensitive to who the people were. If you have someone rich come in who definitely doesn't need the money, I might treat him differently than an obviously needy family. Rich people do not deserve the red carpet treatment unless they are paying for it. Widows are usually grieving, sure you have the incorrigible Anna Nicole Smith types that you can soak all day long without feeling bad. Then you have the salt of the earth family people who you can tell will use the money well and be appreciative and be your friend!

Who says morality and ethics is not relative to the people you are dealing with if you can determine they are honest? I'm not advocating you rip people off, but if the sellers should have done their research I would not feel a lot of sympathy for them.
 

latemetal

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#10
Ripping off the widows is a sport here in Florida, the feeling is hubby, was most likely, a jerk who made a ton of money screwing people over so karma says take it from the widow....:realmad: Not nice people sometimes.
 

Unca Walt

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#11
I occasionally fret a bit about this sort of thing...

I have a cannon (been in the family for 200+ years.) Ten minutes of google will confirm it's worth $13K - $15K. It'll prolly be dumped for $100. (*sigh*)

My avatar was my wedding present !!! 54 years ago from my Unca Harry -- It was on his hip at Omaha Beach June 6, 1944... Priceless, but similar go for $50 or so. (*sigh*):hmpf:

And the Weatherby...:vollkommenauf::fisheye:
 

Ragnarok

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#12
Things that are/may have been worth a fortune to one person may not necessarily mean that much to another, even a wife or husband, if they are not on the same page in regard to said things. I think it is extremely important that husband, wife (and mature offspring) at least know the value of the family possessions, if not take some interest in them, so that there will be less chance of a ripoff of survivor(s). At least consider leaving a note like TnAndy has done.:thumbs_up:

2c,
R.
 

<SLV>

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#13
Wife asks me all the time about all my tools. "WHAT am I gonna do with all this stuff if you croak ?"

I told her there is a list of all the stuff and the price to put on it in the shop file cabinet. Do NOT use an auction....simply have an estate sale with the prices clearly marked on each tool. Ad for the paper reads as follows:

WOODWORK ESTATE SALE !!

Woodworker/farmer/sawmill Guy died. His tools are now for sale, Saturday, xx/xx/xxxx.

First come, first served, no early sales.

Partial List:

Woodmizer LT40 portable sawmill. (You will need vehicle with 2" ball to haul)
W/blade sharpener/setter

Shop tools:

Powermatic 10" Table saw 5hp 1ph
Powermatic Shaper 5hp 1ph
Rockwell 18 4kn head Planer 5hp 1ph
Horizontal Air Compressor 5hp 1ph
72" Jointer
Heavy Radial arm saw
2 Motorized miter box saws
60" Stroke sander.
18" Rockwell Bandsaw
Williams/Hussy molder
Drill press
Miller Bobcat welder
Miller Mig welder
Set of oxy/acet tanks/torch
LOTS of small power tools...drills, sanders, saws, etc.
Large assortment of mechanics tools
Chainsaws and related parts/chains/grinder/etc
You forgot the address.
 

Argentium

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#14
Over on realcent, there is a poster that has a whole meme going. His premise is the wife doesn't care nor deserve it anyway. She spent her husband's life nagging about his stupid, worthless coins taking up space. Now he rests peacefully in the grave. May God rest his soul....


Leave notes (hidden from thieves) that explain what's what and how to figure value.
This topic hits home with me and is something we all need to consider. My wife has an attitude very similar to this and let's just say she is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I've never told her what I have, or what its worth, all she thinks is that its a "coin collection". But, a couple years ago, prior to some major surgery, I did write out an inventory of my PM holdings, in terms of spot value at the time and put it in a envelope, along with my will and insurance policies. I haven't updated it since then. I wrote along with the inventory, that if I died, she should let her son (he's an accountant) handle the disposition and not to sell local, better to use Provident, or APMEX and to keep under the $10, 000 limit in any 1 sale. Of course, I'll never know what she will do, probably haul everything to the nearest LCS and unload it for a fraction of actual value! Her loss, not mine. I could even see her dumping all my 90%, for face value!

For my firearms, I told her, that after my daughter took her pick, to let my best friend, who happens to be a gunsmith, to handle the sale. My other stuff ( lots of scientific instruments; telescopes, microscopes, radiation gear), goes to the daughter. She doesn't really know what the stuff is worth, but would have more of a clue than my wife.
 

Krag

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#15
Excellent points here. Just tell the heirs never go to the local coin shop, I don't know any that are fair on pricing nice coin collections, but most will offer spot price for PMs. I would just advise the simplest plan is to box everything up after a thorough inventory and ship to Apmex or one of the other top buyers. But they want a list first before you ship or they have told me they would return the shipped items.

On numismatics, auction it through Great Collections, they are the best at this point. People may want to reserve the items first though. You want someone who is too rich to cheat or has a reputation to protect.
 

Rollie Free

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#16
Funny, for all the praise I hear on here about buying from the lcs everyone seems horrified that their fortune might be squandered on cashing in at one by an uninformed airhead wife(I can relate). All the scrimping and saving to amass a true, small fortune will end up at a loss. The rest going towards your wife's shoe collection and her boyfriends new boat. Meanwhile, your stenchy carcass is rotting in the ground.

Laugh if you want but this scenario is more possible than you living like a king amongst serfs once the true shtf.

Doesn't surprise me because we are dealing with a brand who feels they have a tiger by the tail despite driving a 15 year old car, living like hermits, and deny themselves many of lifes' pleasures. While your fortunes buried in ground everyone else is tasting theirs. PM's remind me of that line from Paint Your Wagon. When Pardner is asked how he did in poker the night before he says it went great, he broke even.

I am not criticizing, just reflecting. Collecting pm's isn't some eclectic pleasure but it seems highly satisfying. Maybe because its in our DNA. Some ancient desire to delve into real money, God's money, just for the purpose of doing so.

Funny, I went to a coin show today. Was fully planning on buying something but the dealers would have none of it. Prices were way too high, worst that I've seen. I've always thought if someone was willing to sell they could make out pretty good at smaller margins. But the hobbyist, small time dealers seem unable to do so. I think they can't bear to part with it.
 
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Fatboy

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#17
It's karma.

You treat others as you would like to be treated and it will come back to you.

You cheat and take advantage of people, it will also come back to you some day.
So true....

There was the story posted here of the dealer I believe was in the PNW a few years ago that "stole" (purchased at a very small percentage of the true value) a bunch of old coins only to find out they were fake. The classic part of the story was, he went to the police because he was "robbed" (sold fake goods), then the story then went public, telling what he paid and what the coins should have been worth.

Can you say "karma"?
 

Krag

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#18
I did business once with a dealer who was unscrupulous as all getout. His Accugrade "certified" coins were problems, PNG, the prestigious coin dealer organization kicked him out, even they will boot dues paying member dealers when they step over the line, sometimes you have to be convicted of a felony to have them take notice....He got robbed in Florida, the wife watched helplessly inside the restaurant, fortunately a homeless guy came to his aid, but he still lost a fair amount of high value items. He was known as just being unscrupulous. He has active lawsuits going against numismatic organizations.

Dead coin dealers are mourned as Scrooge was mourned--which is to say not much usually. There are exceptions.
 

Goldhedge

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#19
It's amazing to read that the spouses tend to be clueless about the value of "valuables".


Mine is no exception...
 

Argentium

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#20
It's amazing to read that the spouses tend to be clueless about the value of "valuables".
I guess it's good to know that I'm not alone in that respect, but yet I wonder why that is. I mean, we have women members here on GIM, but not that many, so PM ownership is not an exclusively male attribute. The dangers of fiat are not a secret, even the MSM grudgingly reports on it. Is it that my spouse (and apparently others as well) are unable, or unwilling, to connect the dots? It's not like I have not tried to explain to her, the same way that I have tried to explain my prepping efforts and firearm ownership. After so many years, I guess she knows I'm not going to change my beliefs and I realize she is never going to understand, until it finally all goes to sh!t. I would also guess that she (along with most people) will keep going to the locked-up grocery store, wondering when it will re-open.
 

pitw

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#21
I guess it's good to know that I'm not alone in that respect, but yet I wonder why that is. I mean, we have women members here on GIM, but not that many, so PM ownership is not an exclusively male attribute. The dangers of fiat are not a secret, even the MSM grudgingly reports on it. Is it that my spouse (and apparently others as well) are unable, or unwilling, to connect the dots? It's not like I have not tried to explain to her, the same way that I have tried to explain my prepping efforts and firearm ownership. After so many years, I guess she knows I'm not going to change my beliefs and I realize she is never going to understand, until it finally all goes to sh!t. I would also guess that she (along with most people) will keep going to the locked-up grocery store, wondering when it will re-open.
Is it not possible that your wife trusts you implicitly to look after her as it should be. I'm willing to bet she knows stuff that is invaluable to your relationship that you don't care to learn either. My wife has no interest in my coins, bars and stack other than looking once to see what is "cool". She only asks that I tell her where she can rid of it if she needs and this has been done.
 

Krag

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#22
I see a lot of couples that come in to coin shops to sell their collections, or maybe it's their parent's collection. That is where the good stuff comes from dealers have shown me huge rips they got from such lump sum collection purchases they do regularly. I was at one shop where a guy walks in with a 1799 $10 gold piece which he said was in the family for generations. The shop manager said it was a fake and he would give him gold melt for a coin that would be worth $10K or more if real. Many pawn and coin dealers are congenital liars. Why don't these people get several offers? Sure there are the fakes like Continental dollars floating around but genuine ones turn up from time to time.

I have asked dealers if they would ever call a customer up to give them more money if they discovered something worth quite a bit more than they were given? No, they say it is too "messy" to do that.