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Tesla in ‘Code Red Situation’ as Sell-Off Exceeds 20%

Voodoo

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A close relative is getting legit rich on this thing. Urging to sell.
Convince them to sell a part. Say at least 50% and they can let the rest ride.
 

hernancortes

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Tried that, but we're dealing with a true believer who's convinced it's going to 4-5K/ share soon. I've been wrong the whole way up of course
 

gnome

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took more profits at $915
still riding free shares
 

gnome

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Tried that, but we're dealing with a true believer who's convinced it's going to 4-5K/ share soon. I've been wrong the whole way up of course
I believe Tesla will be the #1 car manufacturer in the world within a decade, but I learned my lesson by riding silver from $7 to over $21 and back down. Parabolas don't last.
 

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Voodoo

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I believe Tesla will be the #1 car manufacturer in the world within a decade, but I learned my lesson by riding silver from $7 to over $21 and back down. Parabolas don't last.
They will not be anywhere close. However, I also thank God I was not short Tesla. Actually I think I did once briefly in the $200 range a long time ago.

The thing that gets me is that this happens with only a 15-25% short position and then a decent quarter. I currently own a stock that right now shows 110% short. WHAT??? Should not be possible but welcome to the rigged casino. And I know my broker is getting rich loaning out "my" shares.
 

Zed

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If you didn't sell @ the very least 50% on that spike you are nuts. This will take a long time for the market to digest.

Current valuation seems insane for a subsidized product that is barley making profit and facing a big $$$$ industry that will compete hard.

Rivian look compelling especially with Ford behind them. Porsche's first all electric car was very decent. When it counts the whole industry will be there @ the start line and Tesla will be in competition with people who have already learned from their efforts. Telsa's will have been pulled down and totally reverse engineered, these guys do this all the time. Everything Tesla think they know will be covered off and in the mean time Tesla seems to have been slow to learn what the industry knows about mass producing cars. The Model S is a production nightmare...

They may survive, but they may end up owned by VW....LOL.
 

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crazy run for sure,

none of these ever are based on substance,
just excess fiat chasin'

the game, all about the game,

maybe 'ole elon will give the SEC a buzz, and tell them his statement about $450 share wasn't so wrong after all...........

remember they took away his crayons when he said that
 

Zed

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Yeah... this one is amazing. There cannot be a short left! Truly astonishing, this one will kill the bulls and the bears.
 

Scorpio

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yeah zed, that is where my biases work against me,

I didn't agree with shitcoin, and watched that thing run and run,
same with this one
and others before

there are times when I let my own personal beliefs interfere with making dough,
and I can live with that
 

Voodoo

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The only way to win is to not play the game at all...
 

Zed

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yeah zed, that is where my biases work against me,

I didn't agree with shitcoin, and watched that thing run and run,
same with this one
and others before

there are times when I let my own personal beliefs interfere with making dough,
and I can live with that
True... but the fact that price did this doesn't mean that value was there. A value investor may never make such a move and be correct to do so... and yet in 10 years the value might be there.

In the end the smallest number of people will have benefited from this move because of the nature of the move. See it in gold story stocks all the time and not a place that I like to play.
 

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Current valuation seems insane for a subsidized product that is barley making profit and facing a big $$$$ industry that will compete hard.
Agree current valuation is insane.

As for subsidy, federal tax credits for Tesla have completely expired. GM and others are still getting that subsidy for a while longer, because they haven't sold as many EV's.
Some states still offer tax credits for any electric car.
 

Zed

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Agree current valuation is insane.
In that $100 hit they lost the entire market cap of FIAT Chrysler! In one move, in one day... just astonishing stuff. The gold space is the only other space where stocks go this loopy... and maybe bio-tech (not my thing). Amazing chart, one for the ages.

JMO.
 

Voodoo

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That was actually really useful. Not sure where he is getting all the money but pretty informative. I can relate though as we've had problems with mice and freezing rain here lately. Thickest and strongest coating of ice i've ever seen. Of course I could just pull on my door handle and the door opened just pulling the seals off. Stupid winter.
 

Zed

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That was actually really useful. Not sure where he is getting all the money but pretty informative. I can relate though as we've had problems with mice and freezing rain here lately. Thickest and strongest coating of ice i've ever seen. Of course I could just pull on my door handle and the door opened just pulling the seals off. Stupid winter.
I dunno, he totally hacked a Model S from a wreck to a road goer, he is a bit of a geek.
 

Zed

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My thing is that as soon as battery tech gets there, and it will, at that point electric cars offerings will explode and manufacturing them will go "PC". What I mean by that is that MANY manufactures will be able to select from a plethora of plug and play parts to build various cars with ease. It will commoditize the market more so than it is currently. Any late stage entry will be able to buy all the tech that they need, plug it in to a frame build on a robotic line purchased from Japan and build a car. Get it? The car is going the way of the clone PC, Telsa's advantage is as relevant as the Commodore 64's advantage was. Sure you might be able to lead with tactile innovation aka Apple, but it will be very hard. Cars are going from Big Blue Personal PC to Clone city. I can see you also being able to retrofit and old car with some IMPRESSIVE electric tech, plug and play, off the shelf once battery tech is sorted.

In a nutshell my argument is that electric cars are the future and they will lower the car building barrier to entry and further commoditize the car as a product destroying the massive profit potential that people ***think*** is there for Tesla. I believe that as this becomes more affordable the market will arbitrage the profit to very fine margins. Tesla @ these values will not pay out. This will be challenging for all and I think that there will be no clear winners and that is without factoring in any financial stress, which seems inevitable.

Electric cars yes, dominant all conquering champions in this space... not so much. Look for the Michael Dell of cars... the ordering, assembly and delivery systems will be the trick and Telsa SUCKS at that part ---> JMO.
 
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Buck

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you certainly have a much more positive attitude about EV's than I do

I surmise, the ONLY reason we have EV's is because we're less dangerous, as a society, when we are restricted from traveling outside of our appointed areas / regions

and

The Wicked Cool Cash that comes from Federal Tax Subsidies

It's a Progressives Wet Dream
 

Zed

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I surmise, the ONLY reason we have EV's is because we're less dangerous, as a society, when we are restricted from traveling outside of our appointed areas / regions
Battery tech will bridge the gap, give it 5 to 10 years. However tech might offer that possibility regardless of the engine used.
 

Buck

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and here's where i come from:
We don't need better battery technology...

We have all the technology we need to get us back and forth, safely, comfortably, affordably and economically
We don't need a ''better car", it's not needed at all. It's wasted billions of our dollars, countless hours of our time and it's managed to get some of us to do some basic math that says the world doesn't have enough resources to replace our current vehicles with electric vehicles...that ultimately means we're left broke yearning for an item that's unavailable...



The wheel has already been invented, wtf are we doing?
 

Zed

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and here's where i come from:
We don't need better battery technology...

We have all the technology we need to get us back and forth, safely, comfortably, affordably and economically
We don't need a ''better car", it's not needed at all. It's wasted billions of our dollars, countless hours of our time and it's managed to get some of us to do some basic math that says the world doesn't have enough resources to replace our current vehicles with electric vehicles...that ultimately means we're left broke yearning for an item that's unavailable...



The wheel has already been invented, wtf are we doing?
Yes, but the market will morph, it has been arguable that many techs are unsustainable until technology solved that problem. The "Club of Rome" argued that 2 billion was earths sustainable limit and here we are at 6B or whatever... point is that we will stretch the predicable limit with tech when forced to do so. Forecasting the limit of the stretch is futile... just live it and enjoy it. The Rivian looks awesome, I want one... when the batteries are sorted.
 

Buck

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point is that we will stretch the predicable limit with tech when forced to do so.
this part right here...
Every time something is forced, it ends up with so much waste and fraud as I believe we're seeing today

and honestly, electricity was going to come about anyway, but the turbulence from the early days only secured the profitability of a system that, quite literally, without it, this world would not be sustainable to the 6b it currently has, yet, about 1/4 of these 6b have zero access to any electricity at all
Why? Because providing it for them is 'cost prohibitive'

Force is Not the best motivator for Quality
 

Zed

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this part right here...
Every time something is forced, it ends up with so much waste and fraud as I believe we're seeing today
Forced by government yes, my comment is in reference to market forces.

It will come...
 

Zed

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and honestly, electricity was going to come about anyway, but the turbulence from the early days only secured the profitability of a system that, quite literally, without it, this world would not be sustainable to the 6b it currently has, yet, about 1/4 of these 6b have zero access to any electricity at all
Why? Because providing it for them is 'cost prohibitive'
Nuclear power will need to make a BIG come back... the greens are already doing the "political ground work", you can already see the wave (and justification) rising.
 

Zed

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Force is Not the best motivator for Quality
Market force is, government... well no, I agree. Not all forces are by decree (FIAT!)
 

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My thing is that as soon as battery tech gets there, and it will, at that point electric cars offings will explode and manufacturing them will go "PC". What I mean by that is that MANY manufactures will be able to select from a plethora of plug and play parts to build various cars with ease. It will commoditize the market more so than it is currently. Any late stage entry will be able to buy all the tech that they need, plug it in to a frame build on a robotic line purchased from Japan and build a car. Get it? The car is going the way of the clone PC, Telsa's advantage is as relevant as the Commodore 64's advantage was. Sure you might be able to lead with tactile innovation aka Apple, but it will be very hard. Cars are going from Big Blue Personal PC to Clone city. I can see you also being able to retrofit and old car with some IMPRESSIVE electric tech, plug and play, off the shelf once battery tech is sorted.

In a nutshell my argument is that electric cars are the future and they will lower the car building barrier to entry and further commoditize the car as a product destroying the massive profit potential that people ***think*** is there for Tesla. I believe that as this becomes more affordable the market will arbitrage the profit to very fine margins. Tesla @ these values will not pay out. This will be challenging for all and I think that there will be no clear winners and that is without factoring in any financial stress, which seems inevitable.

Electric cars yes, dominant all conquering champions in this space... not so much. Look for the Michael Dell of cars... the ordering, assembly and delivery systems will be the trick and Telsa SUCKS at that part ---> JMO.
nice train of thought,

gives us something to consider for sure
 

Scorpio

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Greatest Short Squeeze of All Time?

Posted February 4, 2020 by Joshua M Brown


Now this is just breathtaking – I have no skin in the game on this one but cannot stop watching it. I think what’s happened with Tesla recently represents the greatest short squeeze of all time. A rally since around October when they surprised to the upside in an earnings report has just culminated in an explosive 100% year-to-date gain at this morning’s open.


In the top pane (blue) I’m showing total return over the last 6 months of 285%!


In the middle pane I’ve got growth in market capitalization (orange), which soared alongside the stock price, going from $50 billion to over $130 billion, which it make it more valuable than Costco, Lockheed Martin, Goldman Sachs, Starbucks and 400 other components of the S&P 500!


Finally, you can see the short interest as a percentage of shares outstanding. Six months ago, roughly 25% of all the shares outstanding were being borrowed by short-sellers and sold. These shares must be replaced by the short-seller buying them back (or covering their short), which would be profitable if the stock had declined. Needless to say, covering your short in Tesla after the stock has tripled in value would produce the opposite effect – massive, ruinous losses, especially for the unsophisticated who were naked and hadn’t hedged this losing bet in the options market.


I’m not sure we’ll ever see a short squeeze this epic ever again in our lifetimes. In dollar terms it has to be the biggest for the United States. In Europe, during the financial crisis, there was an epic short squeeze in shares of Volkswagen, which was driven up to 1,000 euros per share for a brief moment, making it worth $420 billion, or the single largest company on earth. Its market cap, on paper had eclipsed the value of PetroChina, Microsoft and ExxonMobil, three of the largest in the world at that time, as desperate hedge funds caught leaning the wrong way were forced to cover and run. You can read more about that story here.


No matter what happens from here, this will certainly become one for the books! And it may not even be over yet.

https://thereformedbroker.com/2020/02/04/greatest-short-squeeze-of-all-time/
 

Unca Walt

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On toppa that, Scooter is gonna buy a fargin Tesla.

Yeah, I sent him the videos. (*sigh*)
 

Scorpio

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going back though,

'ole elon was pissin' and moanin' about short sellers,
how they frosted him big,

so he went in and bought mountains of his stock,

who is laughin' now?

pass the doobie is all he is saying at this point...........

1.jpg
 

Voodoo

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T
going back though,

'ole elon was pissin' and moanin' about short sellers,
how they frosted him big,

so he went in and bought mountains of his stock,

who is laughin' now?

pass the doobie is all he is saying at this point...........

View attachment 153605
The problem is all the ways that he has acquired cash in order to buy the stock. He's learned the finance game really well. From buying out a bankraupt Solar City (that he founded) and other shenanigans.
 

Voodoo

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Battery tech will bridge the gap, give it 5 to 10 years. However tech might offer that possibility regardless of the engine used.
People have been saying this for a long time. I worked in a battery and others group in grad school. They have fundamental problems that are very difficult to solve. Now, if you could reinvent Tesla's power source from the ether or whatever that was then we are in business.
 

Zed

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People have been saying this for a long time. I worked in a battery and others group in grad school. They have fundamental problems that are very difficult to solve. Now, if you could reinvent Tesla's power source from the ether or whatever that was then we are in business.
BroadBit have Sodium Tech in testing now, their claims are impressive.
 

Voodoo

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BroadBit have Sodium Tech in testing now, their claims are impressive.
Just claims. Sodium is similar to lithium and just a significantly larger and less reactive element. Unless you are finding a unique electrode for the other side but I can't imagine why lithium wouldn't react similarly. In general that lower reactivity of sodium means smaller electrical potential.

1581121197813.png


https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/anie.201703772
 
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Zed

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Just claims. Sodium is similar to lithium and just a significantly larger and less reactive element. Unless you are finding a unique electrode for the other side but I can't imagine why lithium wouldn't react similarly. In general that lower reactivity of sodium means smaller electrical potential.
I really don't know but they are running the batteries now, they have them working and are supposedly quoting real stats on them. They are in the process of proving out service life, safety etc...
 

Voodoo

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I really don't know but they are running the batteries now, they have them working and are supposedly quoting real stats on them. They are in the process of proving out service life, safety etc...
I did some more digging and it does look like they found some new high conductivity of sodium in alumina. The voltages with sulfur batteries are decent. Of course you add some weight but they will be more stable and less prone to fire.

I still wouldn't expect some big leap forward. I doubt range is effectively any different. The reliability over time w/ multiple chaging cycles will be key. I still doubt I will ever own an EV car.
 

Voodoo

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BroadBit have Sodium Tech in testing now, their claims are impressive.
I looked through their site. Meh, I mean it's certainly worth investigating but I think they are a ways away. The key will be increased temperature and cycling stability. Lithium forms dendrites every cycle which is what kills the battery over time and cause fires if it shorts.