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The Home Tinkerer – bathroom project

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#42
I know some of you are concerned about the broken pipe behind the medicine cabinet. Ok, lets see if I can address this. Yall are correct, it needs to be fixed - in andil, dfenz, mayhem, and my opinion (and probably in other people's opinions as well) it needs to be taken care of.
Most important is that I got to cogitate on the matter. First, the cabinet will be easily removable for access to the broken pipe. Second, the other side of that wall is a bedroom that could use painting. Holes and repairs to the drywall would better there than my main bathroom. Third, I have basement floor access to the sewage pipes and their flow to the outside. And last, but not the least, it’s been broken this way for at least the last twenty years and I ain’t dead yet.

Today I Test fit all the speed tiles in the corner in preparation for setting them later. Cut up an aluminum edging for a border on the tiles.

Edging 51.jpg


Edging 49.jpg

Edging 652.jpg


After this I started painting. Wasn’t concerned about the floor, its next winter’s project, I got outside stuff to do this summer.

Painting 1.jpg

Painting 2.jpg

Painting 3.jpg

Painting Toilet.jpg


So how'd I do, sir dial?
I know the paint's going to peel off there where the tape come off. The only way I know to avoid that is to pull it while it is still wet. Or cut along the tape with a razor knife - but that is tedious.

BF
 

michael59

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#43
If I had been reconstructing the b-room I would have used Hardie Board in the shower area. But that's just me - I tend to over engineer things.

BF
no. hardy board might take more glue but believe me my fake-oh shower stall is now peeling away....

edit: Oh I did not use the hardy board. nope I used regular sheet rock...hey, it was my first remodel and I don't watch TV.
 
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D-FENZ

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#44
Before you get too carried away with the finish, you might want to check your bottom plate in the wall under the chopped vent. It might be rotted from the 20+ years of leakage.

One more thing. If you really do intend to fix it by opening the wall on the other side, now would be an excellent time to do it. Sawing, drilling and installing a cripple stud from the other side is sure to disrupt your bath side, if no more than a nail pop or two.

You do intend to fix it don't you? Your 'temporary' cork is not much better than the "fuckery" that you uncovered.
 

ttazzman

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#45
Before you get too carried away with the finish, you might want to check your bottom plate in the wall under the chopped vent. It might be rotted from the 20+ years of leakage.

One more thing. If you really do intend to fix it by opening the wall on the other side, now would be an excellent time to do it. Sawing, drilling and installing a cripple stud from the other side is sure to disrupt your bath side, if no more than a nail pop or two.

You do intend to fix it don't you? Your 'temporary' cork is not much better than the "fuckery" that you uncovered.
I gather your a plumber by trade....(question) dont you think his vent was just venting accross the gap? and now that the upper pipe is plugged gasses will accumulate in the stud space?

i always considered knowing where and how to vent a system a art form....
 
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#46
Before you get too carried away with the finish, you might want to check your bottom plate in the wall under the chopped vent. It might be rotted from the 20+ years of leakage.
Yeah, scoped that out already with a brite lite. buncha dry plaster (probably from the cabinet install) down below. And did I mention that I had lower floor access, lets see...

... disrupt your bath side, if no more than a nail pop or two.
Oh. Thanks, I didn't think of that 'nail pop' thing. I don't have to be violent over there.

You do intend to fix it don't you? Your 'temporary' cork is not much better than the "fuckery" that you uncovered.
Yeah, yeah, I'll fix it. am I gonna havta take pictures? o_O

BF

PS: I know yer just lookin out for me. <grin>
 
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michael59

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#50
Oh, yeah, an I forgot - I want my bathroom back.

BF
hahaha yeah I hear that loud and clear and know what it feels like....ghee-hawd, I am laughing so much. We went a week.....I was never so happy to finish something... Instead of "are we there yet," it was "are you done yet, because....." Them womens folk don't like to pee or poop on the ground... and that was the main motivation to finish....though I did smerck inside a bit.
 

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#51
Naw, michael, it ain't that bad, I got two more bathrooms. The one that I'm working on is the one where wifey does her morning ablutions. And if the wife ain't happy...

But I'm just about done, one more day, if the river don't rise.

BF
 

D-FENZ

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#53
I gather your a plumber by trade....(question) dont you think his vent was just venting accross the gap? and now that the upper pipe is plugged gasses will accumulate in the stud space?

i always considered knowing where and how to vent a system a art form....
Yes. Plumber by trade. Venting across the gap? Now that's funny. There would not be a natural draft in the vent pipe that would evacuate the gasses from the stud space. Theoretically there could be I suppose but would never count on that. And sewer gas can be nasty. I once worked on a 5 year old house with a sewer gas problem so bad that the outside of their copper piping throughout the house turned powdery black from reacting with the methane. This all from a single toilet that wasn't sealed to the flange properly from brand new. No water leaks, just sewer gas leakage from a bowl wax. The homeowners were so disgusted with the smell they wanted to sell the house but were afraid no one would buy it because of the smell. We just methodically checked every thing. We probably never would have discovered a pipe chopped in the wall like BF's.

Installing a properly vented plumbing system is actually quite mindless and boring once you've done or laid-out a few hundred of them. If you can do it to code, neatly, with a minimum of work, pipe and fittings and no needed soffits then it can be somewhat artful.

To remove some of the mystery of venting, just remember this: The only purpose for a vent in a drainage system is to protect the water seal in the traps- to keep them from siphoning. That's it (oh and of course to vent the gasses outside- not in the wall cavity). The water remaining in the traps is what separates you from the sewer gasses in the drainage system. A vent is pulled off the horizontal pipe downstream from the trap before the drain turns vertical. Lots of other little stipulations but that's basically it. And those S-traps that you see under old sinks sometimes that go straight down into the floor- no way to vent them- a pre-made siphon and they are not code compliant.

It's hard to say but I would guess that BF's chopped vent probably vents both the toilet and the lavatory (the 1-1/2" pipe is too small to pass code for wet-venting both but that's another matter- It's fine). To check that theory he could stuff his cork or a rag in the vertical chopped pipe, then flush the toilet. My hunch is that the lavatory drain will gurgle. That would be the sound of the trap siphoning.
 

ttazzman

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#54
LOL....i need to clarify by "vent across the gap" i meant it vented into the space.....and then the space was vented ....just my short hand way of saying that..


i remember a few years ago puting in my shop in a concrete floor...a shower drain and then to a stool....and trying to figure out how to correctly vent that.......dont remember how i did it ....but i did scratch my head a bit
 

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#55
Here's a rough drawing of the layout;

CuttPipe.jpg

Plugged the vertical vent that goes down to the sink, flushed the toilet - no gurgle from sink - ok, check that. (Can hear water running, though, from horizontal pipe) With the vertical plug still in, filled the sink with water, opened sink drain and ZOOOP all water sucked right out of s-trap.

What about 1½ inch horizontal runs? On the roof the vents are 2 inch (maybe 3 - I don't remember), so that leads me to believe they plumbed with 1½ and connected into 2 inch to run up and out. Or were the builders just saving nickels and dimes on the venting and pulling one over on the inspector?

So far my plan is to use 3 90° elbows, cut the pipes at the appropriate place (from the other side of the wall) and reconnect the sink vent to the outgoing vent run. Does that sound like a plan, Fenz?

BF
 

D-FENZ

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#57
It is normal to upsize the vent (and drain) pipes as the fixture units on the vent add up. I can't speak to what I can't see though. It's hard to say how the new work should have been done without seeing it, but I would have probably teed the lavatory drain horizontally into the vertical toilet vent at 19" off the floor (lavatory rough-in height). It would pass code and is known colloquially as wet venting the toilet with the lav. As I mentioned previously, it would have saved lots of time, pipe and fittings- and the mess you have now.

But back to your situation at hand. There is no way I would open more wall on either side to fix the chopped pipe. There are ways to cut the pipes back without more carnage. Get yourself a finger/cable/string saw for $3 and cut them back to where your 90s will fit. It looks like you have 4" to the stud for your first 90. You could cut that pipe flush with the stud and bury the hub and part of the radius of that 90 in the monster hole that they so generously (sarc) drilled for you to save space. Then just connect the dots with 3, 1-1/2" ABS 90s, 2' of ABS pipe and a small bottle of ABS glue. If you have trouble finding ABS fittings use PVC fittings and pipe and a special but common all purpose / transition glue.

Another way to cut your pipes may be with a Dremel and a cutter blade??? Another possible option, since you seem amenable to patching sheetrock, is to make a single slit in the sheetrock on either side of the wall exactly where your pipe needs cut and use an old fashioned hand saw to cut the rock and pipe with the same, single cut. Then all you would have to repair is that single slit in the rock. Use your imagination. The whole thing should take no more than 15 minutes- tops.

Edit to add... You could also use a hacksaw with the blade turned sideways if your hacksaw has that option.
 

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#58
Cutting those pipes is my biggest bug-a-boo. I have a string saw (left from my backpacking daze) and I can’t see using that in that confined space - I cannot get my hands in there with any room to spare and I’m a slender guy. I could use my Dremel but, boy would it make a ragged cut, what with the restrictions of the two walls there making it hard to steady the tool.

So, yeah, the slits in the opposite wall, three nineties and lots of glue – I think that’s the ticket.

I’m always on the outlook at Goodwill for odds and ends for my tinkerin projects and (as you can see here) I have numerous plumbing fixtures for just this kind of operation. And can always buy new stuff if needed.

Pipes.JPG

Thanks for the time you've allotted me on this. Will there be a charge?

BF
 
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D-FENZ

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#59
No hacksaw that lets you turn the blade sideways?

Thanks for the time you've allotted me on this. Will there be a charge?
BF
There's always room for one more SAE. :D

Seriously though. I don't want to make any money- just want to make a friend.
 

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#60
Nothin says friend like silver says friend. :D

PM me an address.

BF

PS Hacksaw, 'course I got a hacksaw with the rotatable blade - it won't get in there, though.
 

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#61
I will use one or two of these
Short Saws.jpg


Using a hacksaw won't give me any stroke on the back side of the pipe unless I cut a big hole in the bedroom wall for the saw frame.

BF
 

D-FENZ

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#62
I will use one or two of these
View attachment 90376

Using a hacksaw won't give me any stroke on the back side of the pipe unless I cut a big hole in the bedroom wall for the saw frame.

BF
From your earlier photos, it looks like you should have plenty of room between the pipe and wall for a full-frame hacksaw with the blade turned sideways. All you need to start the cut is the width of the saw blade plus a tiny bit for the edge of the frame- about 3/4" max. Maybe no room for your knuckles at first but work it with your fingertips until your blade buries... Or patch the wall...
 

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#63
Installed new lights (LEDs), new switches and a GFD outlet (builders had an electrocuter installed there a foot from the sink) Set all the speed tiles. Put in the refurbished medicine cabinet and wrapped it up Friday Afternoon.

Tub lower 323.jpg
Tub upper 326.jpg

Done Corner.jpg

We'll see if 'we' can keep it clean, now.

BF
 

mayhem

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#64

mayhem

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#65
One thing you might consider, and this comes from my Mold Remediation Experience), is to put a timer on the fart fan. (HD makes a switch with a timer built in.) This way all the humidity gets sucked out after you shower, saving problems later on down the road. Most people turn the fan off when they exit, leaving the moist air to linger in the room.
 

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#66
Looks real good BF. This has been a fun run with ya.
Thanks there, pal, I'm glad I screwed up the courage to post this bit of tinkerin'. I know how hard it is to accept spears and arrows on something you're putting your sweat into.

put a timer on the fart fan.
Yeah, good suggestion.

BF
 

ttazzman

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#67
if i were fixing that vent pipe.......after getting it cut....i would buy a and full of "Street Elbow" style... 90deg...and 45deg elbows....to make the transition.....you can make just about any wierd transition with those...used in tandem
 

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#73
...yep nothing but neanderthal cutting tools for me. I take pride in my work, that is why I sweat all over it.
Yeah, michael, I forgot, 20 years logging. But that's not neanderthal because they used stone tools and it would be a bitch cutting down trees with a stone axe. I'm pretty sure your using some mega-horsepower chain saw for massacring them trees. People do artwork with a chain saw. I knew some old lumberjacks when I was still a young guy. The were old but there were still tough.

Cheers
BF