• Same story, different day...........year ie more of the same fiat floods the world
  • There are no markets
  • "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding high finance, politics, constructionist Constitution, and mental masturbation of all types"

The Liberal Lie So Big It May One Day Split the Country---Thomas Sowell

michael59

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#81
I want freebies but this man is not willing to take bait that is offered as it comes with a string attached. IDK, but some one around here has a line attached to their screen name I find most illuminating. "You cannot bestow a benefit on some one who does not want it."
 

Area51

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#82
...you're over here yammering poetic about how you know better than everyone else how to spend their resources. You clearly hate freedom when people use it in a way you don't approve.

I despise the idea of defect spending because it means a government that was too stupid to balance its budget has put me on the hook as a taxpayer.

Are you oblivious and not at all bothered by your national debt?

As for companies lavishing millions of dollars on incompetent CEOs like the three clowns I referenced - - Nardelli, Lampert and Fiorina - - that's more an issue of principle.

Destroying shareholder value...hemmoraging market share...making asinine acquisitions - - you may feel that's deserving of a multimillion dollar salary but I sure don't.
 

Area51

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#83
I hope you are an honest person who is willing to learn, because you are wrong. Income equality will collapse a society. Take a good hard look at what happens when you have a government enforcing income equality.

Are you sure that video was filmed in Venezuela? Because those buildings sure look like they're from Chicago and Detroit.

If you think "income equality" caused the crisis in Venezuela you're living in a dream world, my friend.

A one trick economy, massive government corruption and a complete lack of interest in anything remotely close to self sufficiency as a nation or individual has put them in this position.
 

michael59

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#84
I despise the idea of defect spending because it means a government that was too stupid to balance its budget has put me on the hook as a taxpayer.

Are you oblivious and not at all bothered by your national debt?

As for companies lavishing millions of dollars on incompetent CEOs like the three clowns I referenced - - Nardelli, Lampert and Fiorina - - that's more an issue of principle.

Destroying shareholder value...hemmoraging market share...making asinine acquisitions - - you may feel that's deserving of a multimillion dollar salary but I sure don't.
Put just you on the hook? Look guy/girl/whatever, you and me are tied into those banks. I don't know about you but I don't own one penny of stock in them things. So this means that them there banks are just like the gumbyment...can do no wrong, and yes me and you will bail them out time and again... what was it I posted about the 1898 Spanish Constitution. Oh yeah....this is about how taxes got onto this land through a treaty...

Art. 3. all Spanish is obliged to defend the country with weapons, when it is called by the law, and to contribute, in proportion of their assets, for the expenses of the State, province and municipality. No one is required to pay contribution which is not voted by the courts or by legally authorized corporations to enforce them.

In fact you might want to read the whole thing because we are living this today, the whole Spanish constitution that is. Here is the link: http://www.dircost.unito.it/cs/docs/CONST 1876.htm

have fun translating it.
 

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#85
I despise the idea of defect spending because it means a government that was too stupid to balance its budget has put me on the hook as a taxpayer.

Are you oblivious and not at all bothered by your national debt?

As for companies lavishing millions of dollars on incompetent CEOs like the three clowns I referenced - - Nardelli, Lampert and Fiorina - - that's more an issue of principle.

Destroying shareholder value...hemmoraging market share...making asinine acquisitions - - you may feel that's deserving of a multimillion dollar salary but I sure don't.
I'm well aware of the national debt. I'm aware also that it's measured in debt based "dollars" that will never be repaid, from an absolute value perspective.

Companies may do whatever TF they wish with their resources. It's none of my business. As was mentioned, if you don't like it then vote with your own resources and only do business with their competitors.

I don't care what a company does with their assets if I'm not invested, if you do, then why don't you take it up at the next shareholder meeting? I'm sure the board will be very concerned with how concerned you are re: their CEO's compensation.
 

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#86
Companies may do whatever TF they wish with their resources. It's none of my business. As was mentioned, if you don't like it then vote with your own resources and only do business with their competitors.
As I said, its more of a matter of principle - - I can't rationalize paying for incompetent performance.

But it becomes an issue for me when these mismanaged companies come grovelling for a government handout.

Nardelli was an abject failure as CEO of Chrysler and thanks to him being so useless, it cost taxpayers such as myself more than a billion dollars in bailout money for Chrysler.

Did you not question or have issue with those corporate handouts?
 

solarion

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#87
As I said, its more of a matter of principle - - I can't rationalize paying for incompetent performance.
Then don't support those companies. Simple.
But it becomes an issue for me when these mismanaged companies come grovelling for a government handout.
Nardelli was an abject failure as CEO of Chrysler and thanks to him being so useless, it cost taxpayers such as myself more than a billion dollars in bailout money for Chrysler.
Then your problem is with government.
Did you not question or have issue with those corporate handouts?
Of course. It ain't capitalism. If you search my post history you'll find dozens of complaints about TBTF, TBTJail, bailouts, cronyism, corruption, government overreach, etc. Sadly the gumbymint doesn't care what you or I think.
 

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#89
Then your problem is with government.

My problem is with hypocrisy.

If you're going to be a socialist and handout billions, then go full socialist and put a cap on the company what CEOs and upper management can earn.

If you're going to be a "free market capitalist" and insist on government being hands off, then take your medicine and go to sleep in eternal bankruptcy.

Someone mentioned it earlier - - companies want to privatize profits and socialize losses.
 

Area51

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#91
now that looks like a good reason to not pay tax's, best I have heard-ever.
I've never had an issue with paying taxes. My problem is when tax dollars get wasted on nonsensical asinine things - - corporate handouts, foreign aid, the military, sports stadiums, the space program.

Spend the tax dollars on infrastructure, healthcare and education then whatever's left over can go towards the frivolous programs.
 

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#92
Are you sure that video was filmed in Venezuela? Because those buildings sure look like they're from Chicago and Detroit.
Did you actually take the time to watch the video? People in Chicago and Detroit are eating cats and dogs because the supermarkets shut down?

If you think "income equality" caused the crisis in Venezuela you're living in a dream world, my friend.
What do you think the justification for the price controls and capital controls that destroyed the supermarkets was? Chavez and company was out against private companies in the name of protecting the little guy.

Robbing the rich to feed the poor doesn't work well for society. It's been tried over and over again. People are not equal in ability, desire, etc. And that's not a bad thing, it's a good thing. Think about it, if everyone had the exact same job, society could not function.

The only thing the government should do is protect an individual's personal property, regardless of whether they are "rich", "poor", or somewhere in the middle.
 

Area51

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#93
Did you actually take the time to watch the video? People in Chicago and Detroit are eating cats and dogs because the supermarkets shut down?



What do you think the justification for the price controls and capital controls that destroyed the supermarkets was? Chavez and company was out against private companies in the name of protecting the little guy.

Robbing the rich to feed the poor doesn't work well for society. It's been tried over and over again. People are not equal in ability, desire, etc. And that's not a bad thing, it's a good thing. Think about it, if everyone had the exact same job, society could not function.

The only thing the government should do is protect an individual's personal property, regardless of whether they are "rich", "poor", or somewhere in the middle.

When you're flush with oil money you can afford to import a bushel of wheat for $10 and sell it for $1 but that's not sustainable. Especially not after the market manipulators pull the plug on oil prices. Price controls can be a necessary measure - - they're certainly needed in the US healthcare profiteering such as that scab Marty Shkreli who jacked up the price on a $2 pill from $15 to $750. You can't function as a society when there's a constant goal to increase the gap between the wealthy elites and the rest of the population.

Please list some of the many alleged examples of wealth transfer from the rich to the poor.

As for the video, yes I watched it - - particularly the comments at 4:19 of the video:

"There are only two classes in Venezuela, the poor and the super rich. The income inequality is absolutely staggering".

Does the host have even the slightest clue as to what he's talking about? That comment kinda contradicts your insistence that income equality has caused the Venezuela crisis. What an embarrassing shill. I'm not sure what was more comical - - the foreboding background music or the crisis actors reading their scripts.

Here's the thing with crisis actors - - they'll say and do anything that's asked of them, fake catastrophic injuries like Miracle Man, pretend to be in the depths of emotional despair. But you cannot fake famine, my friend. Surely you're not naive enough to suggest those people were starving, are you? Because those people were not starving. This is starving.



Have to confess that I literally laughed aloud at the end of your propaganda film when they asked for donations - - not to help the poor, suffering Venezuelans but to help promote the video.
 

michael59

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#94
Especially not after the market manipulators pull the plug on oil prices.
love it, U conspiracy theorist U. hahaha, ur busted using reverse psycho-anology. Pull the plug? what is the plug? why was it pulled? And, my fave...why oh why did you reference it?

sorry for the attack, but the questions beg; "why?"
 

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#95
It's always good for a laugh to hear the ones shilling for "capitalism" and getting rid of government involvement.

They're the first ones in line for help from the government when things turn badly for them - - witness the 2009 government handouts to the banks and auto makers.

The insistence that privatization can do things for less money is ridiculously naive. Any cost savings by privatizing won't get passed on to consumers in terms of lower prices - - they'll go into the coffers of the private company.

And of course when things turn badly the privatized company will look to the government to bail them out - - as we see with the TEPCO catastrophe in Japan.

Have you ever worked in the free market? Companies are continually trying to under cut the others to gain market share. When that isn't occurring its usually because the big companies have convinced/bribed the government to make the barriers to entry high for that particular market. A fault of big government, not the free market.

Private companies are always more efficient than the government. Getting bail outs isn't the fault of the company, its the fault of the government and the people who voted that government in that allow them to do what they do. Of course a company is going to take free money if they can get it. You say it like that's a fault of the private company. They'd be idiots to not take billions if they can get it.

The problem right now is we aren't a free market in the United States, we are mostly socialist just not as hardcore as seen in other places. More of a Nazi Germany type socialism where they allow private ownership because they know its necessary to get things done efficiently.
 

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#96
The government is not squishing anything, my friend. The squishing is coming from the "capitalists" who pull the marionette strings in order to prevent any kind of competition.

Perfect example was Gaddafi's plan to trade oil for gold rather than worthless US dollars.
So you think the evil elite capitalists are bad now? When they become hardcore socialists/communists you aren't even going to have a pot to piss in.
 

Area51

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#97
Have you ever worked in the free market? The problem right now is we aren't a free market in the United States, we are mostly socialist just not as hardcore as seen in other places. More of a Nazi Germany type socialism where they allow private ownership because they know its necessary to get things done efficiently.
Kinda answered your own question, didn't you?

No, I've never worked in a free market and nor has anyone else. That's because there's no such thing as a free market. Not now in America, not ever in America since its inception. Apologists like to pretend "free market capitalism" exists, but in reality there's a small group of elites who control the economy. If you don't believe the stock market is rigged or that resource trading is manipulated, carry on enjoying life in your fantasy world.

America is about as far from socialism as it gets, my friend. Not even remotely close.
 

Area51

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#98
So you think the evil elite capitalists are bad now? When they become hardcore socialists/communists you aren't even going to have a pot to piss in.

Now? No, I've always thought the elite "capitalists" were bad. Absolute scum of the earth cockroaches. There's nothing worse than a phony, and that's precisely what these "capitalists" are. Stuff their pockets off the backs of everyone else and then when their stupidity and greed gets them into a jam, they run crying to the government for help.

That's the problem with the Gord Gecko wannabes. Talk a big game about free enterprise but can't survive without rigged markets and corporate welfare.
 

solarion

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#99
No, I've never worked in a free market and nor has anyone else. That's because there's no such thing as a free market. Not now in America, not ever in America since its inception.
That's just pure nonsense. There are pockets of free market activity taking place all around you, if you just suspend your disbelief for a second and actually look.

What do you think is going on in the cryptocurrency markets right this second? People buy and people sell and government has been unable to stop it or regulate it in any meaningful way. Farmers markets, raw milk producers, flea markets, garage sales, etc...

Yeah government, particularly the federal government is out of control, but there are still free markets around, and they should be supported whenever, wherever, and however they can be.
 

Area51

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That's just pure nonsense. There are pockets of free market activity taking place all around you, if you just suspend your disbelief for a second and actually look.

What do you think is going on in the cryptocurrency markets right this second? People buy and people sell and government has been unable to stop it or regulate it in any meaningful way. Farmers markets, raw milk producers, flea markets, garage sales, etc...

Yeah government, particularly the federal government is out of control, but there are still free markets around, and they should be supported whenever, wherever, and however they can be.

I tend to consider "markets" to be a tad bit larger than a lemonade stand but yes, I acknowledge roadside vegetable stands and swap meets are about as true as it gets in terms of free enterprise.

As for raw milk, the lobby groups and protectionists are all over that trying to suppress it. But at least a few states allow it to be sold, unlike in Canada where raw milk is illegal. Imagine that - - marijuana is permitted but pure milk is forbidden.
 

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I tend to consider "markets" to be a tad bit larger than a lemonade stand but yes, I acknowledge roadside vegetable stands and swap meets are about as true as it gets in terms of free enterprise.

As for raw milk, the lobby groups and protectionists are all over that trying to suppress it. But at least a few states allow it to be sold, unlike in Canada where raw milk is illegal. Imagine that - - marijuana is permitted but pure milk is forbidden.
Why is raw milk forbidden in CAN?
 

Area51

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love it, U conspiracy theorist U. hahaha, ur busted using reverse psycho-anology. Pull the plug? what is the plug? why was it pulled? And, my fave...why oh why did you reference it?

sorry for the attack, but the questions beg; "why?"
Now that is just rich U conspiratorial poop U.

Just call it as I see it, my friend.

Maybe you've spent a bit too much time in the forest over the past couple of decades and missed a few interesting events.
 

Bigfoot

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Here's the thing with crisis actors - - they'll say and do anything that's asked of them, fake catastrophic injuries like Miracle Man, pretend to be in the depths of emotional despair. But you cannot fake famine, my friend. Surely you're not naive enough to suggest those people were starving, are you? Because those people were not starving.
Crisis actors? People in Venezuela not starving? People in the video hunt dogs and cats, wait 12 hours for a carton of milk, but you don't believe it because the ones they interviewed weren't ultra-emaciated?

Good God man, they are not crisis actors. People are really starving in Venezuela.




You can't hold robbing the rich to feed the poor as a sacred religion. Open your eyes and your mind. Study any country during a period of socialist policies versus a period of market policies. Better yet, seek out and talk to people who lived through it.

You don't have to like CEOs, big companies, or whatever. That is NOT the point. This is not about emotions, and finding offense in things, this is about cause and effect. When you empower the government to micromanage human interaction, including buying and selling things, the result is severe shortages of stuff.
 

Area51

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Crisis actors? People in Venezuela not starving? People in the video hunt dogs and cats, wait 12 hours for a carton of milk, but you don't believe it because the ones they interviewed weren't ultra-emaciated?

Good God man, they are not crisis actors. People are really starving in Venezuela.




You can't hold robbing the rich to feed the poor as a sacred religion. Open your eyes and your mind. Study any country during a period of socialist policies versus a period of market policies. Better yet, seek out and talk to people who lived through it.

You don't have to like CEOs, big companies, or whatever. That is NOT the point. This is not about emotions, and finding offense in things, this is about cause and effect. When you empower the government to micromanage human interaction, including buying and selling things, the result is severe shortages of stuff.

Did anyone in your video look like they'd missed very many meals. Maybe that's the "starving snowflake" version of famine.

Venezuela is NOT a socialist country. There would not be a group of wealthy elites at the top of the food chain if it were. Socialism does not mean what you think it means.

Socialism and capitalism do not exist. Sorry to break it to you, but the only ideology governing the world is cronyism.

Blaming the government for the crumbling state of countries is about as naive as it gets, my friend. Perhaps someday you'll come to realize that big business and small groups of elites control the government.

It was refreshing to see Trump ruin Lady Macbeth's party, but "Make America Great Again" is just as hollow and laughable as "Change You Can Believe In" was.
 

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Very powerful milk marketing board lobbyists. They're going to fight just as hard to preserve the supply management and quota system.
My work put me in Toronto for a year back in the 80's. Canada's milk sucks as when you buy it in the grocery store it all comes in sack from the freezer case.
Freezing milk gives an awful off taste that is a crime against what it is supposed to be.
 

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Being enslaved by debt and toiling away in an office cubicle is not much different than being enslaved by chains and toiling away on a plantation.
Huh? In no way can a job you willingly accepted, that comes with pay and benefits, be confused with actual slavery. To think that they are shows a disconnect in your reasoning, IMHO.


Income inequality is the surest way to collapse a society.
Income inequality is good thing. If there were no income inequality we'd not have most of the niceties we have in our modern society.
In fact, the cell phone most people (even poor ones) carry in their pockets is proof that income inequality is a good thing. If it wasn't for the income inequality that allowed a few rich people to be able to buy the first cell phones the technology would have never developed to the point you and I can go buy a computerized phone for $50



And it always comes back to "what about the kids"

Fuck the kids!
Weiner was trying to. lol


Any board member who would agree to waste tens of millions on proven failures like Bobby Nardeli, Carly Fiorina or Ed Lampert should be institutionalized immediately.
It's their money to waste though, isn't it? Do I get a Right to complain about how you spend your money?


My problem is when tax dollars get wasted on nonsensical asinine things
Almost all tax dollars are wasted on nonsensical things, so what's your point?

Also, as for this income redistribution you keep talking about, I'd contend we already have it, as those making >$135,000/year already foot 84% of the tax bill while those in the bottom two fifths already pay a negative rate when measured as a group.

Tax Share.PNG


So what percent of the overall tax burden should "the rich" be saddled with?
...and how are those in the lower classes not already getting a free ride?

Edited to add: if the rich agreed to give up half their income to the poor, would the poor be willing to also accept 42% of the overall tax burden? They currently pay negative rates when measured as a group.
 

SilverBuyer

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Now? No, I've always thought the elite "capitalists" were bad. Absolute scum of the earth cockroaches. There's nothing worse than a phony, and that's precisely what these "capitalists" are. Stuff their pockets off the backs of everyone else and then when their stupidity and greed gets them into a jam, they run crying to the government for help.

That's the problem with the Gord Gecko wannabes. Talk a big game about free enterprise but can't survive without rigged markets and corporate welfare.
So what are you supporting?

Free market system is by far the best system to strive for in my opinion and government bail outs are certainly not part of a free market. Yes there will always be people trying to corrupt the free market but if most people stayed vigilant they wouldn't get very far and there certainly wouldn't be any bailouts.
 

SilverBuyer

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I tend to consider "markets" to be a tad bit larger than a lemonade stand but yes, I acknowledge roadside vegetable stands and swap meets are about as true as it gets in terms of free enterprise.

As for raw milk, the lobby groups and protectionists are all over that trying to suppress it. But at least a few states allow it to be sold, unlike in Canada where raw milk is illegal. Imagine that - - marijuana is permitted but pure milk is forbidden.
The cryptocurrency market currently is at about 72 billion market cap, a wee bit bigger than most lemonade stands.
 

Area51

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The cryptocurrency market currently is at about 72 billion market cap, a wee bit bigger than most lemonade stands.
You can't be serious with that comment. Please tell me you're not gullible enough to fall for the cryptocurrency ruse.

Or is it different this time because instead of colourful scraps of paper it's digits on a computer screen?
 

Area51

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My work put me in Toronto for a year back in the 80's. Canada's milk sucks as when you buy it in the grocery store it all comes in sack from the freezer case.
Freezing milk gives an awful off taste that is a crime against what it is supposed to be.
Factually incorrect, my friend.

Milk is most definitely NOT sold frozen in Canada.
 

Area51

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So what are you supporting?

Free market system is by far the best system to strive for in my opinion and government bail outs are certainly not part of a free market. Yes there will always be people trying to corrupt the free market but if most people stayed vigilant they wouldn't get very far and there certainly wouldn't be any bailouts.

I support extreme nationalism - - except without the racial hatred.

The country should be entirely self sufficient, with minimal external trade and ZERO foreign ownership.

A gold/silver based currency and a banking/financial system that is controlled fully by the government. Prifits would offset taxes and be reinvested back into the infrastructure, healthcare and education.

The only function of the military would be to protect the borders - - NOT attack other countries and steal their resources.

ZERO foreign aid. Charity begins - - and ends - - in the home.
 

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You can't be serious with that comment. Please tell me you're not gullible enough to fall for the cryptocurrency ruse.

Or is it different this time because instead of colourful scraps of paper it's digits on a computer screen?
It'll probably be a trillion dollar market within 5 years. Great time to get in.
 

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I like to keep as little wealth as possible in currencies
Regular ones I could understand. Your purchasing power would be eaten away by inflation in most any currency out there.
...but it's just the opposite with btc. In just the past month, each one has appreciated in purchasing power by $34US/day. If one had gotten in back when you could get 'em for $100 each, 10 of 'em would be earning you $340/day right now. More than enough for most people to live on. On what could have been a $1000 initial "investment" just a few years ago. What else is there that is available for virtually anyone to buy, that is performing like that? 17 months ago it was $380 and most everyone then was saying it was gonna crash any day now. Still waitin' for the crash. Grid's gonna go down for good any day now. Get ready! lol
 

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Regular ones I could understand. Your purchasing power would be eaten away by inflation in most any currency out there.
...but it's just the opposite with btc. In just the past month, each one has appreciated in purchasing power by $34US/day. If one had gotten in back when you could get 'em for $100 each, 10 of 'em would be earning you $340/day right now. More than enough for most people to live on. On what could have been a $1000 initial "investment" just a few years ago. What else is there that is available for virtually anyone to buy, that is performing like that? 17 months ago it was $380 and most everyone then was saying it was gonna crash any day now. Still waitin' for the crash. Grid's gonna go down for good any day now. Get ready! lol
No question that BTC doing spectacularly well right now and those that got in at the right time are riding high. All that wealth is dependent on the internet. What if someday the internet becomes unavailable? Nah....can't happen...

Moral of the story:
If you're in BTC be sure you're not ALL in!!
 

Area51

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No question that BTC doing spectacularly well right now and those that got in at the right time are riding high. All that wealth is dependent on the internet. What if someday the internet becomes unavailable? Nah....can't happen...

Moral of the story:
If you're in BTC be sure you're not ALL in!!

Almost unfathomable to think anyone frequenting this site would be pumping the tires on a fiat currency that's based on absolutely nothing but digits on a computer screen.

Or is this one different because it's "crypto"?