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The Lunatic Fringe - Trading talk.

dpong

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Is it simply name recognition? The less sophisticated the investor, the greater the name recognition effect aught to work, right? (And we just imported a hurd of unsophisticats.) Just like GLD is *the* symbol for paper gold, so is SLV *the* symbol for paper silver. When John or Jane stumbles onto the scene the concierge is more likely to steer them towards GLD and SLV than just about any other substitute. Is it that simple?
 

Voodoo

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Is it simply name recognition? The less sophisticated the investor, the greater the name recognition effect aught to work, right? (And we just imported a hurd of unsophisticats.) Just like GLD is *the* symbol for paper gold, so is SLV *the* symbol for paper silver. When John or Jane stumbles onto the scene the concierge is more likely to steer them towards GLD and SLV than just about any other substitute. Is it that simple?
Some of it is just crowd following. They go where the most liquidity can be found.

Keep an eye on Bonds today. Looks like 10 year yield is gaping significantly higher.
 
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Lancers32

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Is it simply name recognition? The less sophisticated the investor, the greater the name recognition effect aught to work, right? (And we just imported a hurd of unsophisticats.) Just like GLD is *the* symbol for paper gold, so is SLV *the* symbol for paper silver. When John or Jane stumbles onto the scene the concierge is more likely to steer them towards GLD and SLV than just about any other substitute. Is it that simple?

D PSLV has been a nearly perfect tracker and very close to gains or losses % wise until all of this WSB BS. PSLV didn't need them off the March 20 bottom why should they matter now?
 

dpong

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Keep an eye on Bonds today. Looks like 10 year yield is gaping significantly higher.
Oh Crap. You're right. Look out everyone.
 

solarion

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It really looks like the SLV futures thing is just so much bullshit...



...so the next question is -->

Did he mean the "authorized participants" or the custodian? Then if so why?
Struggling to see how this statement even matters. JP Morgan is the custodian and JPM has been busted time and time again rigging commodity markets...specifically PM markets. Materially there's no difference if the futures are shorted by JPM or "the trust", but it comes off nice in a presser.
Now PSLV is up over 1% and SLV down almost 1%. Crazy.
The WSS crowd is dumping SLV and stacking PSLV like madmen. Trust once lost...and all that.
Oh Crap. You're right. Look out everyone.
Yield on 10y paper is closing in on double the August lows. That can't be good for entities trying to continuously finance $28t+ in debt.

1613494452252.png
 
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Jodster

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Just a reminder of where we are in this thing and just how unloved these miners really are!

2010 with POG @ 1200 ish GDXJ was @ 110 ish... over double the current level with gold hanging @ 1800ish.

GDXJ Monthly with Gold over it.

View attachment 202014
This scares the socks off of me also. Wife and I are amateur investors who like to hold long-term.
I was thinking of a major move into PSLV, SGDJ, SLVE, etc...
Looks like a gigantic pair of hands is holding the beach-ball underwater at all costs. So hard to predict this crap; corruption over logic for the time.
Will the paper win or will the physical win?
 

solarion

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Will the paper win or will the physical win?
Depends. Do you mean the battle or the war?

The war will be won by physical because the history of all fiat currency is crystal clear...death. Doesn't mean the paper peddlers can't push their counterfeit gold lower in the short term however. I wouldn't be putting a penny into paper at this point, but others seem to love the stuff. Physical gold for < 1900 FRNs is looking rather appealing frankly, and I'm not a gold stacker. The stuff has just done nothing for so long, while all the other metals have climbed the dollar ladder.
 

solarion

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Quite the bounce in silver spot this morning.
Monkey hammered with bankster crap pre-market because it DARED to cross 28 bux in Asia overnight. Our overlords want us to know who controls the value of real money while they work diligently to lock everyone into their paper frauds by blocking every possible exit.

Hey, at least the stock market is up. I better get me some TSLA cuz fuq rationality.

Edit: how many times has paper gold been monkey hammered below 1800 now? That 1800 level is looking pretty solid as a floor...particularly if premiums on physical remain where they are. Platinum and silver are the metals that are bouncing back like mad, but gold will only sit this out so long before coming out to play.

1613494288590.png


So...in other words...BUY? Okay...
 
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Zed

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I would expect SLV and PSLV to go up or down close to the same % basis daily just like they have been doing for pretty much as long as I have been watching.
That function is down to how well managed the fund is, how quickly they respond in expanding or shrinking the float. PSLV should have NEVER got to a 30% premium to silver, that is just bad management and basically a product not doing what it is designed to do. At that rate you can buy/sell one against the other much like a gold silver ratio trade.

2c FWIW.
 

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Is it safe to assume that if you don't intend to take delivery of Silver via PSLV and just buy/hold to take advantage of the movement in the price of Silver it is just better to do it via SLV?
Yes, you'd buy PSLV @ low premium hoping that it goes nuts on the premium then when it does roll that into SLV or GLD.
 

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Since there are obviously supply issues at least in the amounts the small retail trader would buy then it follows PSLV is probably the worst way to play a SHTF scenario. IF PSLV isn't going up now what happens in a year or two?
They need to shrink the float until it stays with silver. That is their fundamental remit IMO.
 

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There has to be a reason for the under performance and it ain't the Diaper Dudes.
Has to be bad management. I guess they may be trying to front run demand by buying big in silver and consequently issuing too many shares for the real PSLV demand. Maybe they think that if they buy hard enough at the right time they will create a positive feedback loop for PSLV. Maybe they are shy of getting caught with 30% premiums again? I guess that the real answer is somewhere in there.
 

Voodoo

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Yes, you'd buy PSLV @ low premium hoping that it goes nuts on the premium then when it does roll that into SLV or GLD.
Why would you do that? Rolling a small premium from the result of being in a superior product? No thanks. I'm sticking with the real deal.

The correct analogy would be with physical buying. If somehow PSLV has a premium to what you could buy some AE's or Rounds for then you might consider that trade.
 

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Monkey hammered with bankster crap pre-market because it DARED to cross 28 bux in Asia overnight. Our overlords want us to know who controls the value of real money while they work diligently to lock everyone into their paper frauds by blocking every possible exit.

Hey, at least the stock market is up. I better get me some TSLA cuz fuq rationality.

Edit: how many times has paper gold been monkey hammered below 1800 now? That 1800 level is looking pretty solid as a floor...particularly if premiums on physical remain where they are. Platinum and silver are the metals that are bouncing back like mad, but gold will only sit this out so long before coming out to play.

View attachment 202036

So...in other words...BUY? Okay...
Tape painting... look for the flush out then buy.
 

solarion

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Tape painting... look for the flush out then buy.
I did. Rare(for me) physical gold stacking. Silver, platinum, and gold...in that order.
 

Voodoo

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They need to shrink the float until it stays with silver. That is their fundamental remit IMO.
It's day to day ticks. Who cares... If you really must follow silver prices that accurately go buy futures. It looks like it tracks just fine to me, though with some volatility lately. SLV tracks worse with a consistent negative bias.

1613515164001.png
 

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Why would you do that? Rolling a small premium from the result of being in a superior product? No thanks. I'm sticking with the real deal.
PSLV hit 30% premium... for me that's a shit ton of green. That's why. If there is a 30% premium in a fund that's MISSION is to track silver then it is just a badly managed product. Buy metal and stay the f*ck away until the premium disappears.
 

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I did. Rare(for me) physical gold stacking. Silver, platinum, and gold...in that order.
I'm not convinced that we are @ full flush yet. I suspect they are setting up to wash out March delivery as much as possible. March Silver has the potential to be huge. Not saying it will be but I like the setup.
 

solarion

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Why would you do that? Rolling a small premium from the result of being in a superior product? No thanks. I'm sticking with the real deal.
Rolling into paper from paper. lol

I love the "if you don't hold it" crowd. Anybody advising investments in JP Morgan products...wow. Yeah, I trust those guys to stack paper silver for me. NOT. Is there a limit on how much fraud from your investment custodian that crosses a line? lol

SLV tracks silver alright...it holds it down and keeps right there with it. Actual silver...even the very bars the "trust" pretends to stack are going for premiums over their fake paper rubbish. Retail investors are paying 20% higher prices...because there's a tight supply and increasing demand.

Fortunately legitimate pricing mechanisms are being negated by bankster scumbags, so paper silver investors can get "silver" at lower prices. You can't make this shit up.

I know, I know. No way JP Morgan is shorting all those contracts. There's 179,288 * 5k ounces short 896,440,000 ounces ...but no way JP Morgan would do that. ROFLMAO Hey, isn't that an entire year's supply?!?

I'm not convinced that we are @ full flush yet. I suspect they are setting up to wash out March delivery as much as possible. March Silver has the potential to be huge. Not saying it will be but I like the setup.
Of course they are. Market manipulators rig markets. JP Morgan is at the front of that line.
 
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Zed

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It's day to day ticks. Who cares... If you really must follow silver prices that accurately go buy futures. It looks like it tracks just fine to me, though with some volatility lately. SLV tracks worse with a consistent negative bias.

View attachment 202068
It hit +40% at one stage.... WTF?
 

solarion

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People are dumping that scam SLV and pouring funds into PSLV. Sprott actually audits his vaults. SLV? Audit? Dafuq is an audit?

The premium difference exists because one is NOT trustworthy.

I don't want either...I want physical, but if I were stacking a silver ETF/P/V ...it sure as hell wouldn't be anything managed by confessed fraudsters over at JP Morgan.
 

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I know, I know. No way JP Morgan is shorting all those contracts. There's 179,288 * 5k ounces short 896,440,000 ounces ...but no way JP Morgan would do that. ROFLMAO
JPM are free to do as they want, they are not SLV.

I love the "if you don't hold it" crowd. Anybody advising investments in JP Morgan products...wow. Yeah, I trust those guys to stack paper silver for me. NOT. Is there a limit on how much fraud from your investment custodian that crosses a line? lol
The one eye metal heads have always made me laugh. 15 years ago I was arguing to use the paper to trade and roll the profit into metal. If most had done that they'd have a lot more metal now. Life isn't an either or choice, you can do both... options on SLV are perfect to protect your physical holding against a sell off or to capture a price spike without ever letting go of the metal.

FFS I can't believe that there is still tribalism going on.
 

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People are dumping that scam SLV and pouring funds into PSLV. Sprott actually audits his vaults. SLV? Audit? Dafuq is an audit?
That will put 1000oz bars into the market, hopefully PSLV soaks them up and keeps it's price in check with the metal. If they can't do that it may as well be beanie babies.

The premium difference exists because one is NOT trustworthy.
1. @Lancers32 noted it was SLV at the premium and was wondering why.
2. The fact that it got to 40% @ one stage points to miss-management.

They need to keep it in check so as not to damage their holders, the 30 to 40% days were reckless and stupid.
 

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Of course they are. Market manipulators rig markets. JP Morgan is at the front of that line.
Just pointing out that I think you might have pulled the trigger early.

This is where SLV/PSLV comes in handy to catch price that you can later convert to metal. You can move faster when a big flush happens.

Buy long dated calls on a big flush then swap it out to metal later.
 
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solarion

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JPM are free to do as they want, they are not SLV.
Clearly. Heck, even the goobermint "regulators" don't stop them from rigging markets...even the markets they overtly control.

https://www.reuters.com/article/jp-...sury-market-idINL4N2GQ3S0?edition-redirect=in
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...etals-desk-called-a-crime-ring-by-prosecutors

Dear god, if I did .0001% of the market rigging these maggots did, I'd be in prison for life. Why trust a custodian that's proven untrustworthy?

They changed their prospectus and didn't even announce it BTW. They're so plainly untrustworthy. Their dogshit commodity manipulation mechanism called "iShares TRUST" should be driven to a NAV of zero and their fraudster commodity desk manipulators should be dressed in orange jumpsuits and placed in rape cages. Hell, there are people on WSS going long physical and PSLV while buying puts against that corrupt mess over at JPM.
 

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Clearly. Heck, even the goobermint "regulators" don't stop them from rigging markets...even the markets they overtly control.
I think that they are possibly in such a hole with it that they can't stop them. Remember that JPM did the regulators a favor by stepping into Bear Stearns shoes and controlling what should have be a metal's short squeeze from hell. The regulators owe JPM a debt here. People forget how we got here, JPM are supporting government wishes and goals so to expect the regulator to keep them in check is just not realistic.

That said JPM's physical stockpile appears to be their insurance for the inevitable blowup. They seem to understand that it is coming.
 
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Lancers32

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PSLV hit 30% premium... for me that's a shit ton of green. That's why. If there is a 30% premium in a fund that's MISSION is to track silver then it is just a badly managed product. Buy metal and stay the f*ck away until the premium disappears.
What does one do when the premium for physical is insane as well?
 

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What does one do when the premium for physical is insane as well?
Ideally you arb it into 1000oz bars but the logistics! oy vey!
 

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Today I am hitting targets on gold stocks that where set months ago... I think I was a little high, thinking that the next 2 -5 trading days should provide a decent entry.
 

solarion

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What does one do when the premium for physical is insane as well?
You hold your nose and buy it anyway. If you don't hold control it, you don't own it.

There are relative bargains to be had. I've an LCS dealer by me that loves up anyone that walks in with cash rather than plastic in hand. He's giving me 3.5 over spot for all the 2018 tree of life(New Zeeland mint) silver coins I can carry out of there on a wheelbarrel. SOLD!

Don't love the premiums, but the cost of physical isn't the problem...the problem is the fake, phony, and false paper price.
I think that they are possibly in such a hole with it that they can't stop them. Remember that JPM did the regulators a favor by stepping into Bear Stearns shoes and controlling what should have be a metal's short squeeze from hell. The regulators owe JPM a debt here. People forget how we got here, JPM are supporting government wishes and goals so to expect the regulator to keep them in check is just not realistic.

That said JPM's physical stockpile appears to be their insurance for the inevitable blowup. They seem to understand that it is coming.
LOL

Golly, sure wish I could get regulators to look the other way whilst I "do them a favor" and correct some problems with treasonous actors in DC.

Bear Sterns was sacrificed by the jackal banksters 13 freaking years ago...how long do you suppose JP Morgan gets to run their criminal rigging cartel before the rules again apply to them? Unwind that shit already. Except JPM doesn't unwind it do they? No they instead stick their vampire squid tentacles into ten silver ETFs and rape their own shareholders. ...buh but they're doing the treasury a favor! lol

The price of silver is suppressed to benefit manufacturers that desperately need silver as well as to hold down the price of gold. The cartel knows exactly what they're doing...and I hope they choke on their aged single malt.
 
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Lancers32

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You hold your nose and buy it anyway. If you don't hold control it, you don't own it.

There are relative bargains to be had. I've an LCS dealer by me that loves up anyone that walks in with cash rather than plastic in hand. He's giving me 3.5 over spot for all the 2018 tree of life(New Zeeland mint) silver coins I can carry out of there on a wheelbarrel. SOLD!

Don't love the premiums, but the cost of physical isn't the problem...the problem is the fake, phony, and false paper price.

LOL

Golly, sure wish I could get regulators to look the other way whilst I "do them a favor" and correct some problems with treasonous actors in DC.

Bear Sterns was sacrificed by the jackal banksters 13 freaking years ago...how long do you suppose JP Morgan gets to run their criminal rigging cartel before the rules again apply to them? Unwind that shit already.
Can't ever imagine holding anything in perpetuity and at some point you have to pay taxes. The noose is too tight these days. This ain't 2000 anymore. Barter? Maybe in the woods.
 

solarion

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Can't ever imagine holding anything in perpetuity and at some point you have to pay taxes. The noose is too tight these days. This ain't 2000 anymore. Barter? Maybe in the woods.
Why? Why do you have to pay taxes?

Dude at the LCS likes cash because...well...did I mention the why part? This state has no sales tax on bullion, so there's no tax charged at the point of sale either. It's a lot easier to avoid the debt slavery tax thief with physical than it is paper...with transactions reported to the IRS by your broker. I don't see the tax crook showing up to help me move all this heavy metal or toss it into the lake. ...screw that slacker.

1613521087716.png


...yeah decoupling. Sprott added another 3,500,000 ounces of physical today. SLV? Who knows, but they admit they're unable to source physical and they don't really like having to stack it. Wow...what a nice silver "trust". I pass.
 

Lancers32

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When you go to sell you have to pay taxes on metals. I reported taxable gains the last go round and have no intention of playing games at my age.