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The Lunatic Fringe - Trading talk.

solarion

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Yeah, I know how the tax scam works. You're free to play by the rules if you like...I'm personally sick of paying my own captors to steal my rights.

If not for all those damn boating accidents...

BTW, somebody above suggested someone else roll over PSLV shares to SLV shares. Essentially arbitrage between a trusted custodian and a bunch of criminals. Such an action would most definitely result in a taxable event. Likely a short term capital gain at that. It's not like paper is immune to the tax scam.
 

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Bear Sterns was sacrificed by the jackal banksters 13 freaking years ago...how long do you suppose JP Morgan gets to run their criminal rigging cartel before the rules again apply to them? Unwind that shit already. Except JPM doesn't unwind it do they? No they instead stick their vampire squid tentacles into ten silver ETFs and rape their own shareholders. ...buh but they're doing the treasury a favor! lol
If they unwind it blows upward and that will only get worse as time goes on, not better. They were asked to handle it and they are still handling it. There is no way out without impacting price, the regulators know that so they leave them to it. So yeah, as far as the government is concerned they are doing what they were asked to do. If they didn't we'd have broken to new highs ages ago. JPM and government action are basically the same thing here.
 

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BTW, somebody above suggested someone else roll over PSLV shares to SLV shares. Essentially arbitrage between a trusted custodian and a bunch of criminals. Such an action would most definitely result in a taxable event. Likely a short term capital gain at that. It's not like paper is immune to the tax scam.
Yeah... if PSLV hits 30% premium and you don't take that then you are a fucking muppet! You'd be well ahead now if you had traded the arb when it happened. You could have done it many ways, you didn't have to go for SLV.

+ the whole idea was to trade back when the premium disappeared, which, if you did, would have worked out really well -> as a matter of historical FACT!
 

Lancers32

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Yeah, I know how the tax scam works. You're free to play by the rules if you like...I'm personally sick of paying my own captors to steal my rights.

If not for all those damn boating accidents...

BTW, somebody above suggested someone else roll over PSLV shares to SLV shares. Essentially arbitrage between a trusted custodian and a bunch of criminals. Such an action would most definitely result in a taxable event. Likely a short term capital gain at that. It's not like paper is immune to the tax scam.

You only get one free boating accident. Get my drift?
 

Lancers32

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Why? Why do you have to pay taxes?

Dude at the LCS likes cash because...well...did I mention the why part? This state has no sales tax on bullion, so there's no tax charged at the point of sale either. It's a lot easier to avoid the debt slavery tax thief with physical than it is paper...with transactions reported to the IRS by your broker. I don't see the tax crook showing up to help me move all this heavy metal or toss it into the lake. ...screw that slacker.

View attachment 202076

...yeah decoupling. Sprott added another 3,500,000 ounces of physical today. SLV? Who knows, but they admit they're unable to source physical and they don't really like having to stack it. Wow...what a nice silver "trust". I pass.

Different state to state. Not in the same place I was when I was younger.
 

solarion

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If they unwind it blows upward and that will only get worse as time goes on, not better. They were asked to handle it and they are still handling it. There is no way out without impacting price, the regulators know that so they leave them to it.
Yeah...gotta hate free markets. ZOMG the price of a commodity could be set by the free market?!? The humanity!

Guess it's like that "temporary" measure Nixon took half a century ago that destroyed the world economic system. Hey, it was better(for some) than admitting they'd counterfeited the shit out of gold certificates.

...wonder why the rich keep getting richer and the poor get fuqqed. Oh well, remington steel re-runs are on...
Yeah... if PSLV hits 30% premium and you don't take that then you are a fucking muppet! You'd be well ahead now if you had traded the arb when it happened. You could have done it many ways, you didn't have to go for SLV.

+ the whole idea was to trade back when the premium disappeared, which, if you did, would have worked out really well -> as a matter of historical FACT!
Ummm...there is this thing called counterparty risk...ya know? Yeah, sorry guess not. Historically sending your currency to crooks...not awesome.
 

Lancers32

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To quote Wall Street Beats the banks are own all the Silver anyway. When they want to let it go we'll fly. I think you'll make more money in the miners. IF I have to worry about using old dimes to barter we're all screwed anyway. Getting too old to worry about it all anyway.
 

solarion

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I think you'll make more money in the miners.
Probably...unless the goobermint nationalizes them...or changes the rules for them. ...or decides to charge tax on unrealized capital gains thereby robbing everything you think you've gained.
 

Lancers32

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Probably...unless the goobermint nationalizes them...or changes the rules for them. ...or decides to charge tax on unrealized capital gains thereby robbing everything you think you've gained.

All of those are on the table.
 

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The thing with this WSB silver thing is that it gives a narrative to what was going to happen anyway. In reality they will probably make little real difference but the narrative can be used to keep serious investors @ bay. Hey it is just the kids going nutz, don't get involved they will crash it just like GME kind of thing + it gives them an excuse to do something like shut down trading.

Just a thought.
 

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Ummm...there is this thing called counterparty risk...ya know? Yeah, sorry guess not. Historically sending your currency to crooks...not awesome.
Realistically it's low, even if the claims are correct. It's a trading position, no one is marrying SLV, just banging it silly.
 

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Everything is on the table. These people are nuts.
Maybe in the US... not here. No government would get away with killing the miners in Australia.
 

solarion

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Realistically it's low, even if the claims are correct. It's a trading position, no one is marrying SLV, just banging it silly.
Excellent. Good luck with your arb position. I choose to not send funny munny to criminals, but to each their own. Sorry...alleged criminals. lol
 

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Excellent. Good luck with your arb position. I choose to not send funny munny to criminals, but to each their own. Sorry...alleged criminals. lol
Yeah I know. I've watched people pass up 15 odd years of opportunities. You'd all have more physical now if you'd have played the paper market with SOME of your resources.
 

solarion

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Yeah I know. I've watched people pass up 15 odd years of opportunities. You'd all have more physical now if you'd have played the paper market with SOME of your resources.
I used to do precisely that. One day you recognize that the so called "free markets" are 100% rigged. Even if you make a profit despite the HFT algorithms, the "plunge protection team", the douchebags and their "pre" & "post" markets stealing all the big moves before little people can even act, and the douchebag market makers changing the rules midstream then the tax man is standing there to steal huge chunks of the stack you built.

Instead I stacked bitcoin and chose free markets. Much happier. The bitcoin market doesn't close, so there's no pre or post market to steal the big moves. Plus since it's 24/7/365 the "international market maker" scam doesn't work where they smack down the Euro markets ahead of NY open. Screw the rigged ass fake "markets" that function on their fake as funny munny.
 

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Did I mention that it's Silver first notice Friday week, that makes this next week a little vulnerable to whack-a-mole.
 

Lancers32

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Maybe in the US... not here. No government would get away with killing the miners in Australia.
Hope you are right. Whoever is pulling the strings is having no problem destroying the US economy to the point it has no chance to come back in my lifetime. So common sense doesn't enter into any of this.
 

solarion

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The iShares Silver “Trust” Is Likely A Fraud $SLV

Through the meticulous sleuthing of BullionStar’s Ronan Manly, it was revealed that SLV stealthily slipped into the the SLV prospectus “cover your ass” language that acknowledged that the shares were not fully-backed by silver bars:

“The demand for silver may temporarily exceed available supply that is acceptable for delivery to the Trust, which may adversely affect an investment in the Shares.

To the extent that demand for silver exceeds the available supply at that time, Authorized Participants may not be able to readily acquire sufficient amounts of silver necessary for the creation of a Basket.” (see page 7: SLV amended Prospectus as of February 5, 2021)

Notwithstanding all of the other issues with this disclosure in particular, and the entire set-up of the Trust generally, that particular disclosure – furtively slipped into the the Prospectus – reveals the extent to which SLV is not in any way an investment in silver or an investment in a security that indexes the price movement of silver. Rather, SLV is a rat’s nest of fraud and deception – a covert tool used in the Central Banking and bullion banking effort to control the price of silver (just like GLD).

That disclosure alone reveals the extent to which an effort is being made by the big banks – backed by the Central Banks – to prevent bona fide price discovery in the precious metals market.

More at link...

https://investmentresearchdynamics.com/the-ishares-silver-trust-is-likely-a-fraud-slv/

Wow, color me shocked.
 

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The iShares Silver “Trust” Is Likely A Fraud $SLV
Yes, they have said this since day 1.

Interestingly Teddy Butler thinks its legit.

If it isn't legit the bar list will see a good chunk of the staff put in jail, that is enough to prove outright criminal fraud if it is fake. What clerk would take that on for a wage? There would have to be a team of them cooking the books and taking big risks for a small pay packet... just saying.

I've never seen anything that I'd consider proof.
 

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The iShares Silver “Trust” Is Likely A Fraud $SLV

Through the meticulous sleuthing of BullionStar’s Ronan Manly, it was revealed that SLV stealthily slipped into the the SLV prospectus “cover your ass” language that acknowledged that the shares were not fully-backed by silver bars:

“The demand for silver may temporarily exceed available supply that is acceptable for delivery to the Trust, which may adversely affect an investment in the Shares.

To the extent that demand for silver exceeds the available supply at that time, Authorized Participants may not be able to readily acquire sufficient amounts of silver necessary for the creation of a Basket.” (see page 7: SLV amended Prospectus as of February 5, 2021)

Notwithstanding all of the other issues with this disclosure in particular, and the entire set-up of the Trust generally, that particular disclosure – furtively slipped into the the Prospectus – reveals the extent to which SLV is not in any way an investment in silver or an investment in a security that indexes the price movement of silver. Rather, SLV is a rat’s nest of fraud and deception – a covert tool used in the Central Banking and bullion banking effort to control the price of silver (just like GLD).

That disclosure alone reveals the extent to which an effort is being made by the big banks – backed by the Central Banks – to prevent bona fide price discovery in the precious metals market.

More at link...

https://investmentresearchdynamics.com/the-ishares-silver-trust-is-likely-a-fraud-slv/

Wow, color me shocked.
BTW... that right there means that there should be a short fall in the number of SLV shares and that the premium will be pushed up. Exactly what happened to PSLV, not enough shares to keep the price inline with silver.

It also argues that they do buy the silver otherwise they'd have no problem issuing unbacked shares!

Think about it, you guys want it all ways.
 

solarion

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I've never seen anything that I'd consider proof.
...and you probably never will. Commodity traders have position limits...but they don't apply to JP Morgan. JP Morgan quite literally admits that they can't source physical silver for their shitty little scam, but that's irrelevant. SLV isn't audited properly, but that doesn't matter. I suspect Jamie Demon himself could publicly say "Yes SLV is a scam to rig the price of silver" and still you'd not believe it. Any theory, btw on who's short a year's supply of silver at the crimex right this second if it's not JP Morgan rigging the price of silver for their scammy little ETF? Do you not think it's incumbent upon an ETF custodian to notify investors of changes in their prospectus?
Think about it, you guys want it all ways.
Uh no, I want it only one way. I want JP Morgan...the criminal enterprise that it is...to DIE. I don't do business with fraudulent enterprises where I'm aware and can help it.

Clear evidence of backwardation in the silver futures at the crimex at this point. March > April, July, Sept, Dec. May > July, Sept, Dec.

Banksters and their paper scams. lol
 
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Zed

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...and you probably never will.
Why? Because it doesn't exist or are you just being bitchy?

Commodity traders have position limits...but they don't apply to JP Morgan.
...or others it seems. Your point is? That makes SLV a scam how?

JP Morgan quite literally admits that they can't source physical silver for their shitty little scam, but that's irrelevant.
Surely that points to the fact that they are putting silver into the fund? If it is a scam why would you even bring up the idea of shortage? Just make like business as usual?

SLV isn't audited properly, but that doesn't matter. I suspect Jamie Demon himself could publicly say "Yes SLV is a scam to rig the price of silver" and still you'd not believe it. Any theory, btw on who's short a year's supply of silver at the crimex right this second if it's not JP Morgan rigging the price of silver for their scammy little ETF? Do you not think it's incumbent upon an ETF custodian to notify investors of changes in their prospectus?
A custodian is providing a storage service to the ETF, they don't own the metal and they could give a fuck how the ETF conducts itself. They are a warehouse for a fee. Period, end of story... it's a damn logistical service!

Uh no, I want it only one way. I want JP Morgan...the criminal enterprise that it is...to DIE. I don't do business with fraudulent enterprises where I'm aware and can help it.
Fuck yeah! Why would they warn of shortage if they had no intention of getting the metal! IT MAKES NO SENSE! If they never intended to get the metal they'd shut up and say... sure, we got it all!

Clear evidence of backwardation in the silver futures at the crimex at this point. March > April, July, Sept, Dec. May > July, Sept, Dec.
Which is evidence of tight supply which is what they are saying... they are admitting they have supply issues! Looks pretty transparent to me.

Banksters and their paper scams. lol
Would you prefer that they said nothing or that they said something after the fact?

I dunno.... it just bodes well for next week delivery IMO.

By the way JPM stopped about 5K contracts this month, so they are adding physical to their house account.
 

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Clearly. Heck, even the goobermint "regulators" don't stop them from rigging markets...even the markets they overtly control.

https://www.reuters.com/article/jp-...sury-market-idINL4N2GQ3S0?edition-redirect=in
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...etals-desk-called-a-crime-ring-by-prosecutors

Dear god, if I did .0001% of the market rigging these maggots did, I'd be in prison for life. Why trust a custodian that's proven untrustworthy?

They changed their prospectus and didn't even announce it BTW. They're so plainly untrustworthy. Their dogshit commodity manipulation mechanism called "iShares TRUST" should be driven to a NAV of zero and their fraudster commodity desk manipulators should be dressed in orange jumpsuits and placed in rape cages. Hell, there are people on WSS going long physical and PSLV while buying puts against that corrupt mess over at JPM.
You seem to be blaming JPM for iShares which is a BlackRock product that uses JPM custodial services. JPM have little to do with running SLV, they just service BlackRocks need's for storage.
 
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solarion

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...or others it seems. Your point is? That makes SLV a scam how?
iShare's custodian works against the interests of their own investors by shorting their underlying asset. If I did that...it'd be fraud.
Surely that points to the fact that they are putting silver into the fund?
No, it points to the fact that they're LEASING silver from LBMA vaults. How many others are LEASING the same bars simultaneously, I couldn't hazard a guess. When some scumbag says they "added" 130m oz of silver in a couple days and they don't do audits...they're lying. I know...you don't care.

I realize you're married to your paper trading scams...and good on you, but this stuff is costing other people a lot of money. Silver mining companies are operating on shoestring budgets because of these maggots perma rigging the price just North of the cost of production.
You seem to be blaming JPM for iShares which is a BlackRock product that uses JPM custodial services.
You're damn right I am. JPM the criminal bank puts their name on it...they own the results. They and all their "authorized participants" can smoke a turd in hell. ;)

If you like your paper frauds, you can keep your paper frauds.
 

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iShare's custodian works against the interests of their own investors by shorting their underlying asset. If I did that...it'd be fraud.
They are not "their own investors", how JPM trades (be that right or wrong) has sweet FA to do with a service it provides to BlackRock as a Custodian. They are simply vaulting metal that they (JPM) don't own or have ANY claim on. There is nothing remotely fraudulent about that.

You can call JPM's general PM's trading practices into question but you can't legitimately link it to SLV.

The only JPM activity that is linked to SLV is when it operates as an authorized participant and deposits or redeems metal for shares. Even then it is generally acting @ a price set by futures trading. If there is an issue that is where it is.

No, it points to the fact that they're LEASING silver from LBMA vaults. How many others are LEASING the same bars simultaneously, I couldn't hazard a guess. When some scumbag says they "added" 130m oz of silver in a couple days and they don't do audits...they're lying. I know...you don't care.
Bullshit it does... you are just making shit up, they can't lease metal for the fund. I don't know how or were they sourced the 130moz, or how long it really took. I'm guessing that you don't announce that a head of time. The fact that they sucked up 130moz might be why the market is tight now... I don't know. You say it isn't there but really you have no idea. I'm going to assume that the bar list is verifiable by those in the industry and that you'd be hearing about it if they didn't check out.

I realize you're married to your paper trading scams...and good on you, but this stuff is costing other people a lot of money. Silver mining companies are operating on shoestring budgets because of these maggots perma rigging the price just North of the cost of production.
I trade Aussie stocks most of the time, your ETF's, Futures etc are just of interest to me... no more or less. I don't want money in your banking system. So NO, I'm not married to any US product or stock. In fact I've added stocks with US mines to my 'sovereign risk' category.

You're damn right I am. JPM the criminal bank puts their name on it...they own the results. They and all their "authorized participants" can smoke a turd in hell. ;)

If you like your paper frauds, you can keep your paper frauds.
JPM is just one of the authorized participants. It's pretty simple, they deposit metal, get shares of SLV in return and sell them @ will. No metal, not shares. Why do you think that BlackRock would give anyone free shares for no silver?

Deposit of Silver; Issuance of Baskets

The Trust issues and redeems Shares on a continuous basis but only in Baskets of 50,000 Shares. Only Authorized Participants, which are registered broker-dealers who have entered into written agreements with the Sponsor and the Trustee, can deposit silver and receive Baskets in exchange. Upon the deposit of the corresponding amount of silver with the Custodian, and the payment of the Trustee’s applicable fee and of any expenses, taxes or charges (such as stamp taxes or stock transfer taxes or fees), the Trustee will deliver the appropriate number of Baskets to the DTC account of the depositing Authorized Participant. As of the date of this prospectus, ABN AMRO Clearing Chicago LLC, Barclays Capital Inc., Citigroup Global Markets, Inc., Credit Suisse Securities (USA) LLC, Goldman Sachs & Co., HSBC Securities (USA) Inc., J.P. Morgan Securities, Inc., Merrill Lynch Professional Clearing Corp., Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC, RBC Capital Markets, LLC, Scotia Capital (USA) Inc., UBS Securities LLC, Virtu Americas LLC, and Virtu Financial BD LLC are the only Authorized Participants. The Sponsor and the Trustee maintain a current list of Authorized Participants. Silver deposited with the Custodian must meet the specifications for weight, dimensions, fineness (or purity), identifying marks and appearance of silver bars and must be produced by refiners that meet certain throughput and tangible net worth requirements as set forth in “Good Delivery List Rules - Conditions for Listing for Good Delivery Refiners” published by the LBMA.

Before making a deposit, the Authorized Participant must deliver to the Trustee a written purchase order or submit a purchase order through the Trustee’s electronic order entry system, indicating the number of Baskets it intends to acquire and the location or locations where it expects to make the corresponding deposit of silver with the Custodian. The Trustee will acknowledge the purchase order unless it or the Sponsor decides to refuse the deposit as described below under “Requirements for Trustee Actions.” The date the Trustee receives that order determines the Basket Silver Amount (as defined below) the Authorized Participant needs to deposit. However, orders received by the Trustee after 3:59 p.m. (New York time) on a business day will not be accepted and should be resubmitted on the next following business day. The Trustee has entered into an agreement with the Custodian which contains arrangements so that silver can be delivered to the Custodian in London, New York or at other locations that may be authorized in the future.
 

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@solarion The other thing is why the fuck would they bother with SLV for manipulation? It confers no advantage at all, no leverage, nothing at all, nothing like the free range they have in futures? Why would they bother to complicate life when they have the perfect setup on the Comex?

I just don't see it.

The only potential advantage I can see is to government. If government ever want to confiscate metal an ETF is a soft target. I can see why they like them, the metal is all nicely contained and accessible.
 

solarion

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You can call JPM's general PM's trading practices into question but you can't legitimately link it to SLV.
You crack me up. The US department of just-us quite literally calls these maggots a criminal enterprise. You admit they do all sorts of shit others are prohibited from doing. You know they have stakes in nearly every silver ETF/P/V that exists. You know SOMEBODY shorts years of silver supply at a time. You know JPM has the largest physical silver supply in history. You know they've been busted red handed manipulating PM prices.

Yet you say "there's no proof" that these guys are sacks of shit. Clearly you're a JP Morgan apologist and biased.

You're free to do whatever you wish with your funny munny, but JP Morgan is plainly staffed by criminals and management is more than okay with that. I choose to not do business with known scumbags...YMMV. Good luck to you, I'm done with this pointless conversation. Others can decide for themselves if they want to trust JPM with their own fiat. Certainly there's no lack of publicly available evidence of corruption at the bank.

1613571120770.png


Deferred prosecution = bribe to let the thieving maggots at JPM go right on theiving. ...but there's plenty of evidence, they're just "too big to jail".
 
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dpong

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[You mean the markets are rigged? Well, I never!]
 

solarion

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The question is, what to do about it. Helping to collapse institutions knowingly engaging in fraud...doesn't seem like much of a leap to me. Obviously not everyone agrees.
 

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The question is, what to do about it. Helping to collapse institutions knowingly engaging in fraud...doesn't seem like much of a leap to me. Obviously not everyone agrees.
Probably a lot like giving birth; the most pain a person will ever endure, but the "baby" will be an un-manipulated market with true price discovery on precious metals.
 

solarion

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Well that'd be great...how do we get there? Stack physical and/or shares of trustworthy NON-CRIMINAL ETF/P/Vs that stack ONLY physical and are audited regularly by independent firms? Interestingly that's precisely what the WSS guys are doing. They're smashing SLV and stacking PSLV.

Now I personally trust only myself, my family, and best good friends to store my own metals*, but at least(some) people seem to be waking up to who NOT to trust with their metals.

*Any metals I've ever stacked were lost in boating accidents.

Oh look...gold is slightly less hated today than yesterday!

Yesterday :

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Today :

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...well let me know when you crooked assholes are done rigging the paper gold market with your naked short "futures" so I can get into physical. ...if there's any physical left by then...and if the premiums aren't up another hundred bux/ounce by then. What's that you say? I should avoid the huge premiums and just "invest" in your GLD physical gold price rigging scam? ...uh let me get back to you on that...
 
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