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The Paradise Effect

brosil

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#1
Puerto Rico got me to thinking. If you live in paradise where it's warm all the time and food is regularly available, are you really likely to prep? Why would you?
Contrast that with the UP of Michigan. A major storm goes through. Trees are knocked down, bridges are blocked and the power is out. The chainsaws come out to cut the extra firewood and everyone eats chili around the wood stove. It's no different from winter.
I guess I'm saying that we tend to be shaped by the environment we live in. Puerto Ricans do have problems having been wards of the State too long but that's not the only problem.
 

Cigarlover

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#2
If I lived there I would have fruit trees and gardens going but when a hurricane blows through they would be wiped out. Even if I was putting some food away that could be wiped out if my house doesnt hold.
 

Lt Dan

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#3
Ohio, where I live, has tornadoes, can have fires and floods, has had winter storms that shut down roads.

Yes we do stock some stuff up for those types of emergencies, but nothing like we'd need for the long term. Yes, I do try to keep some stabilized gas on hand for the generators, that gets used and restocked as it does not keep good. I keep firewood on hand a year in advance, but since I use an outdoor wood boiler, it requires electric, grid down, I can only run as long as my gas holds out. We garden and do keep some of that canned, some frozen, but even the canned requires some heat to keep it from freezing.

Then there is always the topic of TP, do you have enough to weather a storm like Puerto Rico?
 

Irons

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#4
Rural Michigan people are resourceful and tough that's for sure. I am always learning new stuff from my neighbors. The city people are soft and weak but that's the same anywhere.
Preps include gill nets, deer snares and a fitting/hose to draw propane gas from big tanks into smaller ones.
We know where the big propane tanks are and we'll come and get some if we really need it.

.
 

Cigarlover

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#5
Ohio, where I live, has tornadoes, can have fires and floods, has had winter storms that shut down roads.

Yes we do stock some stuff up for those types of emergencies, but nothing like we'd need for the long term. Yes, I do try to keep some stabilized gas on hand for the generators, that gets used and restocked as it does not keep good. I keep firewood on hand a year in advance, but since I use an outdoor wood boiler, it requires electric, grid down, I can only run as long as my gas holds out. We garden and do keep some of that canned, some frozen, but even the canned requires some heat to keep it from freezing.

Then there is always the topic of TP, do you have enough to weather a storm like Puerto Rico?
I keep a 2 year supply of TP. Friends and family think it's funny. They can keep laughing when the shit hits the fan and they are using leaves. I'll get the last laugh when they grab a handful of nettles to wipe with. :).

A few years ago we lost power in July for about 7 days. Life was bearable. cooked on the gas stove and the gardens still grew food. A generator for a couple fans would have been nice but cold showers were fine. In the winter I could heat water on the wood stove for a sponge bath..
One lesson I learned was lack of coffee really sucked at first.. Now I have a percolator I can use on the gas stove if I have to. For the most part I didnt really miss the electricity though.
 

Lt Dan

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#6
One lesson I learned was lack of coffee really sucked at first..
LIFE WITHOUT COFFEE?

Is there life without coffee? I've been cutting way back to not even making coffee some days. Have not yet had any today. May not make any. I never got to the point of it being an addiction, not sure how, but I can take it or leave it, doesn't matter that much.
 

Irons

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#7
LIFE WITHOUT COFFEE?

Is there life without coffee? I've been cutting way back to not even making coffee some days. Have not yet had any today. May not make any. I never got to the point of it being an addiction, not sure how, but I can take it or leave it, doesn't matter that much.
Oh I love my coffee! Strong and mean and black as a bankers heart! Arrrr!!
I do have a few kilo's of good gunpowder green tea vacuum sealed in bricks for preps though. Some lady had Temple of Heaven gunpowder kilo's on ebay for like $12 each with free shipping a few years ago. I stocked up.
Gunpowder is a great tea, strong enough it has some bite and enough caffeine you can't drink it all day without feeling like a downed power line.

.
 
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hammerhead

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#9
Taking a hit isn't always bad. What doesn't kill ya makes you stronger. Unless you want to play victim. If you do, the more bad things happen the more sorrow a person can feel.
 

dacrunch

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#10
I know that building houses costs money... but if I were to build new, in almost ANY climate / region ... I'd start by building a poured cement foundation with re-bar... or if in a flooding zone poured cement posts (car park on ground floor)... but then I'd continued with poured concrete walls all the way up the building, and set poured concrete slabs (with a pitch) as roofing.

Come on hurricanes, floods, tornadoes, earthquakes, ice-storms, blizzards. You might leave some cracks and broken windows, but you ain't movin' my place.
 

Thecrensh

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#11
I know that building houses costs money... but if I were to build new, in almost ANY climate / region ... I'd start by building a poured cement foundation with re-bar... or if in a flooding zone poured cement posts (car park on ground floor)... but then I'd continued with poured concrete walls all the way up the building, and set poured concrete slabs (with a pitch) as roofing.

Come on hurricanes, floods, tornadoes, earthquakes, ice-storms, blizzards. You might leave some cracks and broken windows, but you ain't movin' my place.
Idk...sustained 150mph winds with gusts approaching 200mp or more may tear your cement house up as well...at least pull the roof off.
 

gringott

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#12
I saw something along these lines in the country of Belize. The soil was so fertile that you could drop seeds and have a crop, yet I saw few locals working at growing food [beyond sustenance], and no sign of industry. I had a pretty good measure IMHO of industrial development - stick matches. The worst I ever saw were produced in Belize. I understood when I saw the factory, a old wooden barn like seen in Wisconsin or Illinois. The one working productive farm I saw was a family of white people from England, out there slogging in the mud putting up a fence for the cattle. Theft seemed to be a major industry.
It seems the "easier" it is to stay alive [or the least effort needed] the less ambitious are the people. Warm climate, little shelter needed = stick house with tin roof, no heat needed, clothes not important for survival, well, it doesn't lead to excess production.
 

Thecrensh

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#13
I saw something along these lines in the country of Belize. The soil was so fertile that you could drop seeds and have a crop, yet I saw few locals working at growing food [beyond sustenance], and no sign of industry. I had a pretty good measure IMHO of industrial development - stick matches. The worst I ever saw were produced in Belize. I understood when I saw the factory, a old wooden barn like seen in Wisconsin or Illinois. The one working productive farm I saw was a family of white people from England, out there slogging in the mud putting up a fence for the cattle. Theft seemed to be a major industry.
It seems the "easier" it is to stay alive [or the least effort needed] the less ambitious are the people. Warm climate, little shelter needed = stick house with tin roof, no heat needed, clothes not important for survival, well, it doesn't lead to excess production.
Except for excess production of offspring.
 

dacrunch

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#14
Idk...sustained 150mph winds with gusts approaching 200mp or more may tear your cement house up as well...at least pull the roof off.
Strapped/bolted-down cement-slab roofs flying off? I'd say 400mph winds...

Even better = cement dome roof...
 

Thecrensh

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#15
Strapped/bolted-down cement-slab roofs flying off? I'd say 400mph winds...

Even better = cement dome roof...
I've talked to truckers and a perpendicular 35mph wind can flip a semi truck (due to the sail area of the trailer). When the 120mph+ winds pass over a roof, they can generate tremendous lift. Are you going to trust your life to some bolts?
 

mayhem

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#16
The biggest problem with poured cement roofs are 'leaks'. There were plenty of them built in the Miami area in the 1950's in the warehouse districts. Knew a guy who did hot roofing (can you imagine doing that in the summertime sun? I can't.) He made a fortune down there in the mid 70's fixing the seam leeks. The fixes would last about 6 months in the hot sun. Eventually they all went to steel over the cement.

Remember every fart fan and stove vent is always open to the outside. In a Cat-5 when the wind gusts up to the high 100's you create a pressure imbalance between the inside to the outside. When that happens windows and doors blow in, as the anchors to the concrete gives way. My older sister had a 9th floor condo on Pompano Beach when Wilma struck. Her 20 foot sliding glass door ended up laying on the living room floor even with heavy shutters on the outside. The vacuum just sucked the doors and frames right out of the concrete walls.
 

dacrunch

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#17
I've talked to truckers and a perpendicular 35mph wind can flip a semi truck (due to the sail area of the trailer). When the 120mph+ winds pass over a roof, they can generate tremendous lift. Are you going to trust your life to some bolts?
1" diameter threaded rod with square plate washers & nuts? Yeah, I trust my life to much less than that every day at work...

The biggest problem with poured cement roofs are 'leaks'.
That's why I would have PITCHED slab roofs (not poured in place, but raised with a crane) - with metal sheeting/flashing on top. Not a horizontal flat "deck" roof. (A flat deck could always be added above, out of galvanized grating, if really wanted.)
 
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Lt Dan

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#19
Cement buildings in earthquake zones use rubber seams to take up the movement.
Yes, but I sat here wondering what happens to one of those cement buildings supposedly made safe for hurricanes is hit by an earthquake? I don't know, just wondering how they would hold up. I know about rebar, but what if it is not enough?
 

hammerhead

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#20
Earthquakes have side to side movement as opposed to up and down. Just like bridges bouncing and skyscrapers swaying, there needs to be some give in order to survive.
 

Irons

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hammerhead

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#22
The biggest problem with poured cement roofs are 'leaks'. There were plenty of them built in the Miami area in the 1950's in the warehouse districts. Knew a guy who did hot roofing (can you imagine doing that in the summertime sun? I can't.)
While I was visiting a relative in FL, the house I was staying at had an A/C crew working there. After coming back from the store, i mentioned how I saw a crew slathering hot tar and said how that must suck doing that. The A/C guy asked me if I would like to climb into the attic where there is little air but all the heat and who knows what living up there. He won the worst job award.
 

Lt Dan

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#23
The A/C guy asked me if I would like to climb into the attic where there is little air but all the heat and who knows what living up there. He won the worst job award.
Hammer, I've done that kind of work here in Ohio in the heat of summer, you can only stay up there for a short time before you quit sweating, that's when you better get out fast and take a breather, and get re-hydrated.
 

Alton

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#24
Earthquakes have side to side movement as opposed to up and down. Just like bridges bouncing and skyscrapers swaying, there needs to be some give in order to survive.

Ummm....actually there are 2 basic categories of earthquake waves:

1) P Wave = the type of wave you described giving the side to side motion to whatever is on the surface
2) S Waves = the waves that provide an up/down motion to whatever is on the surface

You can read more about this here: http://www.geo.mtu.edu/UPSeis/waves.html

P Waves are definitely the more common type. The type of wave is dependent on the type of earthquake and the surface geological structure, soil structure and soil type. The effects on the upper surface where buildings and infrastructure are built and people live will vary accordingly. Perhaps the most damaging/frightening is where there are subterranean rock formations covered over with a coarse type of sub-soil. It is here where liquefaction can occur. This has little to do with sub-soil water content or water tables. This phenomena is due mostly to soil type and frequency/amplitude of the earthquake. At the right freq./amplitude this soil type will act much like a liquid. Trees, structures, animals and people just get sunk fully right into the soil sort of like the land instantly turning into a lake but without water. This phenomena was witnessed along the Mississippi river in the quakes of 1811/1812.
 

hoarder

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#26
A friend of mine in Texas wanted to build a house "tilt wall construction". To me that's kinda like having 200' tall trees in your yard. I explained a phenomenon called gravity. I would have trouble sleeping at night. Sure, you could build a concrete house 12" thick with layers of 1" rebar, but then you're dealing with another phenomenon....cost-effectiveness.

Wind resistance...think round and low. Teepees are very wind resistant compared to any tent. Dome homes, Quonset huts handle winds very well. The more rigid a structure is, the more wind forces work against it.
 

nickndfl

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#27
When I travel to the Keys I frequently stay at Parmer's Resort in Big Pine which has a few Quonset huts on stilts. The place got hammered by Irma, but they withstood.