• "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding metals, finance, politics, government and many other topics"

The serotonin theory of depression: a systematic umbrella review of the evidence

Goldhedge

Retired
Sr Midas Sup +++
Survivor
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
70,077
Reaction score
157,048
Location
Rocky Mountains

The serotonin theory of depression: a systematic umbrella review of the evidence​


Abstract​

The serotonin hypothesis of depression is still influential. We aimed to synthesise and evaluate evidence on whether depression is associated with lowered serotonin concentration or activity in a systematic umbrella review of the principal relevant areas of research. PubMed, EMBASE and PsycINFO were searched using terms appropriate to each area of research, from their inception until December 2020. Systematic reviews, meta-analyses and large data-set analyses in the following areas were identified: serotonin and serotonin metabolite, 5-HIAA, concentrations in body fluids; serotonin 5-HT1A receptor binding; serotonin transporter (SERT) levels measured by imaging or at post-mortem; tryptophan depletion studies; SERT gene associations and SERT gene-environment interactions. Studies of depression associated with physical conditions and specific subtypes of depression (e.g. bipolar depression) were excluded. Two independent reviewers extracted the data and assessed the quality of included studies using the AMSTAR-2, an adapted AMSTAR-2, or the STREGA for a large genetic study. The certainty of study results was assessed using a modified version of the GRADE. We did not synthesise results of individual meta-analyses because they included overlapping studies. The review was registered with PROSPERO (CRD42020207203). 17 studies were included: 12 systematic reviews and meta-analyses, 1 collaborative meta-analysis, 1 meta-analysis of large cohort studies, 1 systematic review and narrative synthesis, 1 genetic association study and 1 umbrella review. Quality of reviews was variable with some genetic studies of high quality. Two meta-analyses of overlapping studies examining the serotonin metabolite, 5-HIAA, showed no association with depression (largest n = 1002). One meta-analysis of cohort studies of plasma serotonin showed no relationship with depression, and evidence that lowered serotonin concentration was associated with antidepressant use (n = 1869). Two meta-analyses of overlapping studies examining the 5-HT1A receptor (largest n = 561), and three meta-analyses of overlapping studies examining SERT binding (largest n = 1845) showed weak and inconsistent evidence of reduced binding in some areas, which would be consistent with increased synaptic availability of serotonin in people with depression, if this was the original, causal abnormaly. However, effects of prior antidepressant use were not reliably excluded. One meta-analysis of tryptophan depletion studies found no effect in most healthy volunteers (n = 566), but weak evidence of an effect in those with a family history of depression (n = 75). Another systematic review (n = 342) and a sample of ten subsequent studies (n = 407) found no effect in volunteers. No systematic review of tryptophan depletion studies has been performed since 2007. The two largest and highest quality studies of the SERT gene, one genetic association study (n = 115,257) and one collaborative meta-analysis (n = 43,165), revealed no evidence of an association with depression, or of an interaction between genotype, stress and depression. The main areas of serotonin research provide no consistent evidence of there being an association between serotonin and depression, and no support for the hypothesis that depression is caused by lowered serotonin activity or concentrations. Some evidence was consistent with the possibility that long-term antidepressant use reduces serotonin concentration.

Introduction​

 

kiffertom

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
740
Reaction score
1,180
My two cents we are living an unnatural life. Look how our ancestors lived 200 years ago and longer. All they had to do was provide for their own Survival. Environment shapes Evolution and we have not been able to catch up to this unnatural way of life. Go to YouTube and watch The Gods Must Be Crazy and that will explain why we're all so fucking depressed. Don't forget MD stands for medical doctor which means they prescribe medicine for everything. Just like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. medication time! medication time!
 

arminius

Argentate Bluster
Eagle
Platinum Bling
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
7,732
Reaction score
13,248
The Therapeutic State
The Tyranny of Pharmacracy
THOMAS S. SZASZ

Conclusions
The collectivization of American medicine, like the collectivization of much else in America, began during the presidency of Franklin D. Roosevelt. In 1940, in a speech delivered at the dedication of the newly established National Institutes of Health, Roosevelt declared: “The defense this nation seeks involves a great deal more than building airplanes, ships, guns, and bombs. We cannot be a strong nation unless we are a healthy nation” (qtd. in Fallows 1999, 68). With equal justification, Roosevelt might have said: “We cannot be a strong nation unless we are a prosperous nation.”

We have become a prosperous nation by separating the economy and the state, not by making the state the source of employment, as have the communists, with the disastrous results now known to all. We can become a healthy nation only by separating medicine and the state, not by making the state the source of health care, as have the communists, with similarly disastrous results.

Long before the reign of modern totalitarianisms, English economist and states- man Richard Cobden (1804–65) warned: “They who propose to influence by force the traffic of the world, forget that affairs of trade, like matters of conscience, change their very nature if touched by the hand of violence; for as faith, if forced, would no longer be religion, but hypocrisy, so commerce becomes robbery if coerced by war- like armaments” (qtd. in Ideas on Liberty [February 2000], back cover). The same principle applies to medicine. As “affairs of trade . . . change their very nature if touched by the hand of violence,” so affairs of medicine also change their very nature if touched by the hand of violence and, if forced, cease to be forms of treatment, instead becoming forms of tyranny.

Americans’ love affair with pharmacracy now transcends traditional distinctions between left and right, liberal and conservative, Democrat and Republican (Szasz [1976] 1985). Even libertarians are often indifferent to the dangers posed by Leviathan, provided it has an M.D. degree and prescribes drugs (see, for example, McCloskey 1999). Physicians, who ought to know better but for the most part don’t, are perhaps the most naive and at the same time the most zealous advocates of medical interventions for all manner of human problems. Writing in JAMA, two physicians plead for a “comprehensive public health surveillance of firearm injuries.” Why? Because “Firearm injuries are a leading cause of death and disability in the United States” (Hayes and LeBrun 1999, 429). We are building a society based on the false premise that if x is a “leading cause” of death, then x is a disease and a public-health problem whose prevention and treatment justify massive infringements on personal freedom.

Clearly, the leading cause of death is being alive. The therapeutic state thus swal- lows up everything human on the seemingly rational ground that nothing falls out- side the province of health and medicine, just as the theological state had swallowed up everything human on the perfectly rational ground that nothing falls outside the province of God and religion. Lest it seem that I exaggerate the parallels between these two total states and the religious nature of the therapeutic state, consider Vice President Al Gore’s by no means atypical remarks, offered in an address at Emory University on June 1, 2000. Pledging to wage the war on cancer with renewed vigor, he declared: “Within ten years, no one in America should have to die from colon can- cer, breast cancer, or prostate cancer. . . . The power to fight cancer comes from the heart and from the human spirit. But most of all, it comes from being able to imag- ine a day when you are cancer-free.” His Web site carried his message under the ban- ner headline, “Gore Sets Goal for a Cancer Free-America” (Gore 2000; see also Dal- rymple 2000). Thus do Christian Science and the wars on diseases blend into political vapidity and pharmacratic tyranny.

Because much of the work of the pharmacrats entails legislation, regulation, and coercion, the need for lawyers expands even more rapidly than does the need for doc- tors. The steady increase in the number of lawyers compared to the number of physi- cians is consistent both with the expansion of pharmacratic tyranny and with the underlying conflict between health and freedom that so many people sense. In 1956, approximately 7,500 law degrees and 6,000 medical degrees were awarded in the United States, for a ratio of 1.2 law degrees for every medical degree. In 1996, 40,000 law degrees and 15,000 medical degrees were awarded, for a ratio of 2.6 to 1 (Brimelow 1999, 150).

America’s drift toward pharmacracy has not escaped the attention of perceptive social commentators. “Our politicians,” observes Andrew Ferguson, “are transcending politics. . . . How is it . . . that politicians who for years promised to keep government out of our bedrooms now see fit to invite their way into our souls? They have cast them- selves as empaths; soul-fixing is their job. . . . Their bet is that America today wants a Therapist in Chief” (1999, 52). Indeed, the medical metaphors regularly used by our leaders—and by their wives and cabinet members—have made them seem such.

Actually, I believe, Americans want a therapist-in-chief who is both physician and priest—an authority that will protect them from having to assume responsibility not only for their own health care but also for their behaviors that make them ill, literally or figuratively. Pandering to this passion, politicians assure them they have a “right to health” and that their maladies are “no-fault diseases”; promise them a “patient’s bill of rights” and an America “free of cancer” and “free of drugs”; and stupefy them with an inexhaustible torrent of mind-altering prescription drugs and mind-numbing antidisease and antidrug propaganda—as if anyone could be for illness or drug abuse.
Formerly, people rushed to embrace totalitarian states. Now they rush to embrace the therapeutic state. By the time they discover that the therapeutic state is about tyranny, not therapy, it will be too late.
 

arminius

Argentate Bluster
Eagle
Platinum Bling
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
7,732
Reaction score
13,248

The Rise and Fall of Pharmacracy

November 29, 2007

Mercola.com
by Christopher Kent, DC, JD

Psychiatrist Thomas S. Szasz (1) has written extensively on the medicalization of American politics. Medicalization is defined as a process or tendency whereby the phenomena, which had belonged to another field such as education, law, religion, and so on, have been redefined as medical phenomena. (2) Thus, medicalization is a process by which the medical profession asserts authority over a sphere of life previously overseen by guardians of morality.

Szasz describes the ideologies of legitimization: theocracy (God's will); democracy (consent of the governed); socialism (economic equality); and pharmacracy (the therapeutic state). The emergence of the therapeutic state is a product of the 20th century. The Rise of Government in Health Care

From 1776 to 1914, the federal government played no role in civilian medicine. In 1914, the first antinarcotic legislation was enacted. As the century progressed, the federal government's role in medicine exploded. Szasz offers the following statistics:

* In 1950, funding for the National Institute for Mental Health was less than $1 million. In 1992, it reached $1 billion.

* In 1965, when Medicare and Medicaid were enacted, their cost was approximately $65 billion. In 1993, it was nearly $939 billion.

* Between 1960 and 1998, the public expenditure on health care increased more than 100 times, from $35 to $3,633.

* In addition to these expenditures, government spending in general went from a budget of $13.6 billion in fiscal 1941, to $1.65 trillion in 1998.

One of Szasz's greatest insights is his description of the process where coercion is transformed into medical therapy:

1. The subject's "condition" is diagnosed as a disease.
2. The intervention imposed is defined as a treatment.
3. Legislators and judges ratify these categorizations as "diseases" and "treatments."

Coercion Becomes a Public Health Measure


The traditional role of coercion as a public health measure dealt with the transmission of communicable diseases. Persons with communicable diseases were quarantined (as in measles) or banished (as in leprosy). Yet as a growing number of behaviors were defined as "diseases" coerced treatment was added to the armamentarium of public health and state authority.

Medicalized conditions include such diverse conditions as gambling (3), smoking (4), gun violence (5), and racism (6). Coercion is used not merely to isolate those with communicable diseases, but to force treatments on persons with tuberculosis, alcoholism, and a plethora of mental illnesses where the subject is deemed a threat to "self and others." Children are particularly susceptible to coerced medical interventions, ranging from vaccination to behavior modifying drugs for such dubious diagnoses as ADD/ADHD. Even when parents elect alternative courses of health care, courts have ordered dangerous treatments against the wishes of both parents. Pharmacracy has led to an uncritical deference for allopathic intervention by the legislatures and the courts.

Thankfully, pharmacracy is a 20th century paradigm. As we approached the turn of the century (and the new millennium), a subtle revolution was building steam. Despite economic disincentives, and medicine's cultural authority, Americans sought to reclaim control over their lives and turned to "alternative" care in unprecedented numbers.

A study by Eisenberg (7) found that in 1990, 34 percent of the people surveyed used at least one "unconventional" intervention in the past year. Indeed, their visits to "alternative" practitioners exceeded visits to primary care medical physicians in that year. A follow-up study (8) in 1997 reported that utilization of "alternative" health care had increased to 42.1 percent. Total out-of-pocket expenditures doubled.

The trend is growing. Kessler (9) reported that 67.6 percent of those surveyed had used at least one "complementary" or "alternative" approach to health care in their lifetime. According to the article, utilization by Baby Boomers is about half, and use by post-Baby Boomers (who have reached the age of 33) is 70 percent.

A Wellness Revolution

The true revolution, however, is not in seeking different techniques for treating disease. It is the emergence of a different perspective on the human condition. This is the distinction between "alternative treatment" and "wellness." People have realized that valuable as medical treatment may be in its proper context, it does not address vital, core issues concerning the human condition.

Legendary economist Paul Zane Pilzer (10) has written, "What we call the 'health care' business is really the sickness business. The $1.4 trillion we spend on medical care is concerned with treating the symptoms of sickness. It has very little to do with being stronger or healthier." Pilzer predicts that wellness is destined to become a trillion dollar industry.

Pilzer wrote, "I define 'wellness' as money spent to make you feel healthier, even when you're not 'sick' by any standard medical terms ... As much as we focus on the financial and lifestyle benefits of the business, the real benefit is what you can do to change a life -- and the lives of all people who are touched by that life."

Chiropractic is perfectly positioned to provide the leadership for the wellness movement, which is both a revolution and a renaissance. We have the opportunity to bring more fullness and joy to humanity than ever before. Will we rise to the challenge, or abdicate our birthright by limiting our vision? Open your mind, open your heart, and let your light shine. Embrace the challenge and change the world. References

1. Szasz TS: The therapeutic state: the tyranny of pharmacracy. The Independent Review 2001;5(4):485.
2. Sato A: Medicalization and medicalization theories
3. Potenza MN, et al: Pathological gambling. JAMA 2001;286(2):141.
4. Antidepressant therapy may help COPD patients stop smoking. Reuters. London. 7/26/01.
5. New AMA president takes on gun lobby. Reuters. Chicago. 6/21/01.
6. Racism as mental illness. ABCNews.com. 6/1/01.
7. Eisenberg DM, et al: Unconventional medicine in the United States. Prevalence, costs, and patterns of use. New England Journal of Medicine 1993;328(4):246.
8. Eisenberg DM, et al: Trends in alternative medicine use in the United States, 1990-1997. JAMA 1998;280(18):1569.
9. Kessler RC, et al: Long-term trends in the use of complementary and alternative medical therapies in the United States. Annals of Internal Medicine 3001;135(4):262.
10. The next trillion. Interview with Paul Zane Pilzer. Network Marketing 2001 3(5):40.

See Dr. Mercola's comments at:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/11/29/the-rise-and-fall-of-
pharmacracy.aspx
 

arminius

Argentate Bluster
Eagle
Platinum Bling
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
7,732
Reaction score
13,248
page18image2454480544
 

Rollie Free

Midas Member
Midas Member
Site Supporter
Survivor
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
7,165
Reaction score
9,919
Location
Nebraska
There is a lot of smoke and mirrors but it's generally observed that the onset and public saturation of anti-depressants has gone along with significantly higher suicide rates. Correlation vs causation but it's very difficult to apply data to what someone would have done. How can anyone prove the cause of suicide?
We've seen in the past two decades that mass shooters are almost always on psych medicine.
My nephew (as a young teen) used to call them crazy pills as in, they made him crazy. He had his share of issues behavior wise but he was also sired by a real low life and his single mother gave him up to the state. So, naturally you can guess why he might have acted out.
Our nation is chock full of kids in similar situations. Basically they've been a giant test case for 'better living through chemistry'.
 

<SLV>

Platinum Bling
Sr Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
6,592
Reaction score
11,502
Problem is the gut-brain axis. Oral antibiotics wipe out the biome and weaken the intestinal wall. Toxicity is the result, and this toxicity has neurological consequences. Healing begins in the gut.
 

gringott

"Internet Moofluencer"
Midas Member
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
20,033
Reaction score
35,575
Location
Stable
Over half of all American women are on anti-depression meds. The rest remain untreated.
They all vote.
 

CopperSilverGold

Silver Member
Silver Miner
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,667
Reaction score
3,318
Location
Midwest
Problem is the gut-brain axis. Oral antibiotics wipe out the biome and weaken the intestinal wall. Toxicity is the result, and this toxicity has neurological consequences. Healing begins in the gut.

As someone who went through a bout of severe anxiety after taking antibiotics, I can vouch for this. It was so bad that I could barely function at times. Of course, my doc wanted me to take SSRIs so I gave them a try, but it made things MUCH worse. After doing hours of research, I determined the cause came down to needing probiotics to restore what was knocked out by the antibiotics. That got me back on track. I shudder to think how things might be today if I had followed my doctor's advice and stuck it out with the SSRIs like so many do.
 

<SLV>

Platinum Bling
Sr Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
6,592
Reaction score
11,502
As someone who went through a bout of severe anxiety after taking antibiotics, I can vouch for this. It was so bad that I could barely function at times. Of course, my doc wanted me to take SSRIs so I gave them a try, but it made things MUCH worse. After doing hours of research, I determined the cause came down to needing probiotics to restore what was knocked out by the antibiotics. That got me back on track. I shudder to think how things might be today if I had followed my doctor's advice and stuck it out with the SSRIs like so many do.
Same for me. Took me 5 years to figure it out (never took the mood drugs). L-Theanine was my crutch. Viome.com was my healing.
 

Avalon

The most courageous act is to think for yourself
Midas Member
Sr Midas Sup +++
GIM Hall Of Fame
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
10,327
Reaction score
24,141
Location
NC
Problem is the gut-brain axis. Oral antibiotics wipe out the biome and weaken the intestinal wall. Toxicity is the result, and this toxicity has neurological consequences. Healing begins in the gut.
its not just antibiotics, Steroids and antacids are destroying stomach balance too.
 

<SLV>

Platinum Bling
Sr Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
6,592
Reaction score
11,502
its not just antibiotics, Steroids and antacids are destroying stomach balance too.
For me it was a round of antibiotics that brought on the anxiety, but I am sure that even my diet had contributed to my vulnerability.
 

CopperSilverGold

Silver Member
Silver Miner
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,667
Reaction score
3,318
Location
Midwest
Same for me. Took me 5 years to figure it out (never took the mood drugs). L-Theanine was my crutch. Viome.com was my healing.

Glad you eventually figured it out. My anxiety was so bad that I couldn't even go shopping for groceries if I needed more 2-3 items or if the things I needed were in the back of the store. I had to work really hard to overcome that. I also couldn't handle being stuck in traffic and always made sure to stay in the right lane so that I had a way out if things got too bad. Any travel over 15-20 minutes away from home was also a huge challenge.

It may have been just a standard side effect of the antibiotics, but part of makes me wonder if they were formulated specifically to cause this so that big pharma would have more people reliant on SSRIs. I am skeptical by nature so this may be a big reach, but I hope no one goes through what we did.
 

arminius

Argentate Bluster
Eagle
Platinum Bling
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
7,732
Reaction score
13,248
For me it was a round of antibiotics that brought on the anxiety, but I am sure that even my diet had contributed to my vulnerability.

You might consider mindset as well.

Why do homeopathic principles work?

Why is homeopathy shunned by mainstream medicine?
 

<SLV>

Platinum Bling
Sr Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
6,592
Reaction score
11,502
Glad you eventually figured it out. My anxiety was so bad that I couldn't even go shopping for groceries if I needed more 2-3 items or if the things I needed were in the back of the store. I had to work really hard to overcome that. I also couldn't handle being stuck in traffic and always made sure to stay in the right lane so that I had a way out if things got too bad. Any travel over 15-20 minutes away from home was also a huge challenge.

It may have been just a standard side effect of the antibiotics, but part of makes me wonder if they were formulated specifically to cause this so that big pharma would have more people reliant on SSRIs. I am skeptical by nature so this may be a big reach, but I hope no one goes through what we did.
I can completely relate. I would feel like I was going to pass out if someone stood at my desk talking to me too long.

I had been a pastor for 10 years and was up in front of a crowd of people regularly, and suddenly I couldn't even handle a meeting in a conference room without feeling the urge to run out. My life was completely wrecked.

It was leaky gut caused by the antibiotics. After 3 weeks of following the diet recommendations from Viome the anxiety and panic attacks were gone.

Now I have PTSD from it. Whenever I am heading to a situation that previously would have caused a panic attack I can feel it creeping up. Once I am in the situation I am usually fine. I use the L-Theanine (400 mg) plus a cup of coffee to give me a focused alertness without the jitters. I never go anywhere without L-Theanine just in case.

I have had some relapse in the blast year, but I am sure this is because I got away from my Viome diet. I have been back on the diet for several months now, and I'm feeling better.

Unless you have experienced the (illogical) horror of an anxiety attack you cannot relate. After a panic attack I would be ashamed of myself and wonder why I let it happen. It didn't even make sense to me, let alone trying to explain it to someone else. But when you are in the middle of an attack NOTHING else matters besides getting relief (usually by getting out of the situation that triggered it).
 

<SLV>

Platinum Bling
Sr Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
6,592
Reaction score
11,502
You might consider mindset as well.

Why do homeopathic principles work?

Why is homeopathy shunned by mainstream medicine?
Nothing wrong with mindset. People assume that anxiety is the same as "worry." I would have panic attacks in the most benign situations (made me question my own sanity). In my spiritual family people would encourage me to just "have faith" or "trust God." They assumed that it was a spiritual shortcoming. In reality it was a bio-chemical imbalance (hormonal) caused by antibiotic injury to my intestinal lining. "Gut Brain Axis." NIH has found a 60% correlation between IBS and clinical anxiety. Hmmmmmm....

I was fortunate enough to have an older pastor recognize that this was medical issue and refer me to his Naturopath. He explained that when the thyroid is suppressed by toxins (from leaky gut) the adrenal glands take over to provide "energy." This was the key for me to find healing through research.
 

CopperSilverGold

Silver Member
Silver Miner
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,667
Reaction score
3,318
Location
Midwest
I can completely relate. I would feel like I was going to pass out if someone stood at my desk talking to me too long.

I had been a pastor for 10 years and was up in front of a crowd of people regularly, and suddenly I couldn't even handle a meeting in a conference room without feeling the urge to run out. My life was completely wrecked.

It was leaky gut caused by the antibiotics. After 3 weeks of following the diet recommendations from Viome the anxiety and panic attacks were gone.

Now I have PTSD from it. Whenever I am heading to a situation that previously would have caused a panic attack I can feel it creeping up. Once I am in the situation I am usually fine. I use the L-Theanine (400 mg) plus a cup of coffee to give me a focused alertness without the jitters. I never go anywhere without L-Theanine just in case.

I have had some relapse in the blast year, but I am sure this is because I got away from my Viome diet. I have been back on the diet for several months now, and I'm feeling better.

Unless you have experienced the (illogical) horror of an anxiety attack you cannot relate. After a panic attack I would be ashamed of myself and wonder why I let it happen. It didn't even make sense to me, let alone trying to explain it to someone else. But when you are in the middle of an attack NOTHING else matters besides getting relief (usually by getting out of the situation that triggered it).

My mom dealt with panic attacks for years. Since I hadn't dealt with anxiety (other than situational like going into an MRI tube - didn't realize I was claustrophobic until the first one), I always thought it was in her head and that she was being mentally weak. Wow did I feel like an ass once I experienced it.

Thankfully, it hasn't crept back at all. The turning point for me was seeing a YouTube video of a male executive doing videos of how he dealt with it. Here he was, good looking guy, maybe 35 years old with an athletic build, driving a really nice SUV so obviously very successful in his career and he was dealing with debilitating anxiety. He went through in detail how the research he did led him to serotonin and probiotics. My recovery period was about the same as the duration of the anxiety (roughly 6 months each). I had to challenge myself multiple times and remind myself "see, that wasn't so bad" after each successful outing. Little by little I got back to my "normal" life and was glad to be able to enjoy going on road trips again. I have yet to attempt flying again and just thinking about that makes me a bit anxious, but eventually it will happen (unless they reinstate full blown jab requirements).

I had a brain MRI in the fall of 2020. Of course that meant going back into the tube to where you are stuck in the middle of it for 20-25 minutes. I was anxious about it, but didn't feel like a panic attack would come on thankfully. Many of the relaxation techniques I learned while recovering came in quite useful in dealing with that situation.
 

<SLV>

Platinum Bling
Sr Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
6,592
Reaction score
11,502
I tried a LOT of supplements to find relief. GABA didn't help. Melatonin didn't help (caused insomnia ironically). Mucuna Pruriens sort of helped, but felt like a bad trip. CBD oil didn't help (traffic jam in the rain in Chicago proved that to me).

I had been in a prolonged anxiety attack (2 weeks), and I prayed and told God I couldn't live another 40 years feeling this way. A few days later I received my order of L-Theanine. I popped two in, and sat on the front porch. 45 minutes later I felt my chest relax for the first time in weeks. And I cried tears of relief.

I continued on L-Theanine for the next two weeks at the high dose of 400mg every four hours (1600/day). During this time I learned that I had to take it with caffeine or I would feel light-headed. Eventually I backed down to 400mg in the morning to set the right mood for the day.

My continued research led me to individual Biome testing. I found a nutritionist in New York who would look at the results of a stool sample analysis and recommend a diet based on my unique biome. But it was $5,000 for the test and consultations. This is when I found the $100 Viome.com test. Since then I have tested annually to keep things on track.

I am sharing this in case someone else is desperate for relief. I had to dig and find this path to healing on my own, so it took 5 (horrible) years. Healing is only months away, and relief can be found sooner than that with L-Theanine.
 
Last edited:

<SLV>

Platinum Bling
Sr Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
6,592
Reaction score
11,502
My mom dealt with panic attacks for years. Since I hadn't dealt with anxiety (other than situational like going into an MRI tube - didn't realize I was claustrophobic until the first one), I always thought it was in her head and that she was being mentally weak. Wow did I feel like an ass once I experienced it.

Thankfully, it hasn't crept back at all. The turning point for me was seeing a YouTube video of a male executive doing videos of how he dealt with it. Here he was, good looking guy, maybe 35 years old with an athletic build, driving a really nice SUV so obviously very successful in his career and he was dealing with debilitating anxiety. He went through in detail how the research he did led him to serotonin and probiotics. My recovery period was about the same as the duration of the anxiety (roughly 6 months each). I had to challenge myself multiple times and remind myself "see, that wasn't so bad" after each successful outing. Little by little I got back to my "normal" life and was glad to be able to enjoy going on road trips again. I have yet to attempt flying again and just thinking about that makes me a bit anxious, but eventually it will happen (unless they reinstate full blown jab requirements).

I had a brain MRI in the fall of 2020. Of course that meant going back into the tube to where you are stuck in the middle of it for 20-25 minutes. I was anxious about it, but didn't feel like a panic attack would come on thankfully. Many of the relaxation techniques I learned while recovering came in quite useful in dealing with that situation.

No more flying for me. Had a middle seat on a 3 hour flight to San Francisco that felt like 100 hours. I was pinching my arms hard enough to bruise them just to take my mind off the panic. Worst attack I ever had was in a hotel in Ottawa the night before a flight back home. I ended up popping four antihistamines to bring me down. Benadryl was the only way I made it back on that flight.

One other thing I found that helped was Binnaural Beats. Must be used with headphones, but I would often listen at work to relax me. If that didn't work, I would head out for a 30 minute walk in the neighborhood.

Fascinating science here:

 

CopperSilverGold

Silver Member
Silver Miner
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,667
Reaction score
3,318
Location
Midwest
I tried a LOT of supplements to find relief. GABA didn't help. Melatonin didn't help (caused insomnia ironically). Mucuna Pruriens sort of helped, but felt like a bad trip. CBD oil didn't help (traffic jam in the rain in Chicago proved that to me).

I had been in a prolonged anxiety attack (2 weeks), and I prayed and told God I couldn't live another 40 years feeling this way. A few days later I received my order of L-Theanine. I popped two in, and sat n the front porch. 45 minutes later I felt my chest relax for the first time in weeks. And I cried tears of relief.

I continued on L-Theanine for the next two weeks at the high dose of 400mg every four hours. During this time I learned that I had to take it with caffeine or I would feel light-headed. Eventually I backed down to 400mg in the morning to set the righ mood for the day.

My continued research led me to individual Biome testing. I found a nutritionist in New York who would look at the results of a stool sample analysis and recommend a diet based on my unique biome. But it was $5,000 for the test and consultations. This is when I found the $100 Viome.com test. Since then I have tested annually to keep things on track.

I am sharing this in case someone else is desperate for relief. I had to dig and find this path to healing on my own, so it took 5 (horrible) years. Healing is only months away, and relief can be found sooner than that with L-Theanine.

I know exactly what you mean. It got so bad for me that I was ready to end it all. I had it all planned out so that it make the smallest mess for the people that had to clean up after me and that I would be found quickly so that my pets could be taken care of. I had even written up a living will of sorts for care for my pets. Since I had experience losing friends to suicide, it made me re-evaluate whether this was the best course of action. Ultimately, it was thinking of my dog having to go through a change in ownership again (I am his 3rd owner) and my love for him that made me decide I needed to tackle this head on.

I may look into the Viome test. I am currently in the process of trying a new diet and have found good and bad side effects. The good is a higher level of energy during the work day. The bad is that I am struggling terribly during my workouts. I would like to have the good without the bad, so some tweaking needs to be done and the $100 investment is well worth it.
 

CopperSilverGold

Silver Member
Silver Miner
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,667
Reaction score
3,318
Location
Midwest
No more flying for me. Had a middle seat on a 3 hour flight to San Francisco that felt like 100 hours. I was pinching my arms hard enough to bruise them just to take my mind off the panic. Worst attack I ever had was in a hotel in Ottawa the night before a flight back home. I ended up popping four antihistamines to bring me down. Benadryl was the only way I made it back on that flight.

One other thing I found that helped was Binnaural Beats. Must be used with headphones, but I would often listen at work to relax me. If that didn't work, I would head out for a 30 minute walk in the neighborhood.

Fascinating science here:


Wow that sounds awful.

Funny you mention Benadryl. I was having a really hard time falling and staying asleep. I would wake up at 2am with my mind racing and couldn't fall back asleep. It didn't take long for the sleep deficit to make it so I was so uncoordinated just trying to stand up and it was very difficult to function. I took Benadryl every night before bed and while it helped at first, things started to get worse after about a week. Found out that Benadryl can mess even more with the sleep cycles so I was getting hit from that, the SSRIs causing more anxiety, and the anxiety I was trying to beat. Have to say it was absolute hell.

I hope people who are dealing with it will learn from our experiences and know that there is hope as well as they can get back to a mostly normal life.
 
Last edited:

CopperSilverGold

Silver Member
Silver Miner
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,667
Reaction score
3,318
Location
Midwest
I completely missed your part about binaural beats. I would listen to those on YouTube during the work day just to keep me somewhat calm. Now when I hear similar music, it brings back memories of that awful few months.