• "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding high finance, politics, constructionist Constitution, and mental masturbation of all types"

"The Siege at Ruby Ridge" (movie)

Strawboss

America...Love it...or GTFO
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
4,601
Likes
7,675
Location
Washington DC bitchez...
#2
Amazon has ratings/comments...did you check them?
 

Krag

Planet earth
Platinum Bling
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
4,727
Likes
3,832
#3
A few....

The movie did it's best to paint Weaver as a moronic screw up while making the Federal agents look like mature level headed adults.

Why do you think the jury in the murder trial found Kevin Harris innocent of shooting a US Deputy Marshall stone cold dead with a 30-06 bolt action rifle when Harris admitted he pulled the trigger ? Why do you think the government paid out over three million dollars to Weaver and a half a million dollars to Harris after it had charged them with murder, attempted murder, conspiracy etc etc ?

A) The reason the ATF gave the firearms charges to the grand jury is because the agent as he testified in court would not file the charges himself because he in fact entrapped Randy Weaver.

B) Randy Weaver did not appear for his first court date because the court had sent him the wrong date telling him his court date was in March and not February. Even though the judge was aware of this he issued a fugitive warrant for his arrest anyway instead of simply mailing him a new court date.

C) Wrongly depicted in the movie and proven in court was that the Marshalls brought along the silenced MP5 sub machine gun in order to lure the dogs into the woods so they could kill them. When asked in court, the agent who shot the dog stated he did not know why they brought the silenced weapon, they just bring them. His boss testified after him that the silenced weapon was in fact brought along to kill the dogs. Lure them into the woods and then carry out the corpses in garbage bags and the Weavers would never know what happened to their pets. That was the plan. It is also illegal, that is why Marshall Cooper lied about it.

The dog ran into the agents position wagging it's tail and sniffing the agents. When the dog turned away and was running back to Sammy the agent shot him in the ass hitting it approximately 5 inches from it's rectum. The bullet travelled parallel to the dogs spine and exited through it's chest. The dog spun in circles howling in pain and then crawled on it's fronts paws before dying at Sammy Weaver's feet. Sammy yelled, "You shot my dog you SOB !" And fired three rounds. Marshall Denton fired seven times and hit Sammy in the arm before Harris slammed a bullet into his chest which severed an artery in his lung and exiting his back killing him. Agent Cooper then shot Sammy, who was running away in the back.

The next day the FBI sniper shot Randy in the back, Vicky in the head, and Harris in the chest.

I doubt Weaver participated in the making of this misinformed movie. His attorney if I remember correctly owned royalties on the story as part of the bargain for doing the case pro bono.

In the aftermath the sniper was charged with manslaughter but while it was pending a new DA took office and dropped the charges. The number two person in the US Marshall's office went to prison for 18 months for destroying evidence.

Randy and Kevin's lawyers never even put up a defense when the prosecution rested because almost every Federal law enforcement officer that testified was caught in lies, the prosecuters were fined for misconduct and contempt, and it was found that the government, according to their own forensics people had been caught trying to frame Randy by pushing a bullet through the barrel of his rifle with a cleaning rod and placing it on the ground where the marshall was shot dead in order to frame him.

Perhaps 10% of this movie is accurate. The caricatures in this film bear little or no resemblance to the Weaver family. I've always been angered by what TV and movies are allowed to portray as "true", but this horrible, vicious pile of bovine dung sinks to a new low. This family was attacked, terrorized and had members murdered by criminals with badges. The threat to public safety that justifid this? Failure to appear in court on a charge that was later dismissed. Big Brother government out of control is putting it mildly. They proved to any and all who aren't brainwshed or deliberately hiding from an unpleasant dose of reality that if they decide they don't like you and want to take you down, they will do whatever it takes, spend millions of taxpayer dollars and even cold blooded murder. When atrocities of this nature cannot be hid from the public, the government propaganda machine demonizes their victims. It doesn't take much to get the average commodity obsessed American to put such unpleasantness out of their mind after the excitement of the "news" has worn off. And, hey, if the government spent all that time and money killing someone, they must've been bad and deserved it. If you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about, right? At worst it was an unfortunate mistake, and besides, why did the Weavers have to live out in the mountains alone? Forget that just over a century ago Americans were doing just that by the thousands. This is now. Why can't you be like everyone else?

What's really sad is so many people not only believed the evil lies spread about this innocent family, but think they brought it on themselve because they were supposedly neo-nazis. The Weavers were NOT neo-nazis or members of the Aryan nations as reported and repeated so often, but it would seem that too large of a percentage of Americans think it is okay to silence people who hold these unpopular beliefs by any means. For a "fair and balanced account" (to repeat a phrase used by fans of this cess pool of a film) read the well researched Ambush at Ruby Ridge : How Government Agents Set Randy Weaver Up and Took His Family Down. Then you might at least try reading the Weaver's own account of what happened The Federal Siege at Ruby Ridge: In Our Own Words. So many of you have passed judgement on this family and continue to condemn them based on nothing more than seeing a TV program or reading something on the internet. Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Leave it to Hollyweird and the Zionist-

NAZIs to distort all that happens out

there to 'We the People'! This made

for TV garbage is as bad as the 'Man-

hunt in the Dakotas', which smears a

man murdered for his beliefs,e.g., the

Gordon Kahl story. A better video to

see would 'Tragety at Ruby Creek,

which is the correct name of the town

in which Randy Weaver and his late

bride had their cabin in, starring

Lt. Col. James 'Bo' Gritz, until now

unavavilable on amazon.com.
 

TAEZZAR

LADY JUSTICE ISNT BLIND, SHES JUST AFRAID TO WATCH
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
15,286
Likes
26,938
Location
ORYGUN
#4
Janet fucking reamo, another sexual deviate/pervert ! Need I say more ???

janet fucking reammo.jpg
 

TAEZZAR

LADY JUSTICE ISNT BLIND, SHES JUST AFRAID TO WATCH
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
15,286
Likes
26,938
Location
ORYGUN
#5
Amazon has ratings/comments...did you check them?
YUP, and here is the best one.

Aron Rush
1.0 out of 5 starsBiased Fictional Account Of Government Sanctioned Murder
September 18, 2013
Format: DVD
Perhaps 10% of this movie is accurate. The caricatures in this film bear little or no resemblance to the Weaver family. I've always been angered by what TV and movies are allowed to portray as "true", but this horrible, vicious pile of bovine dung sinks to a new low. This family was attacked, terrorized and had members murdered by criminals with badges. The threat to public safety that justifid this? Failure to appear in court on a charge that was later dismissed. Big Brother government out of control is putting it mildly. They proved to any and all who aren't brainwshed or deliberately hiding from an unpleasant dose of reality that if they decide they don't like you and want to take you down, they will do whatever it takes, spend millions of taxpayer dollars and even cold blooded murder. When atrocities of this nature cannot be hid from the public, the government propaganda machine demonizes their victims. It doesn't take much to get the average commodity obsessed American to put such unpleasantness out of their mind after the excitement of the "news" has worn off. And, hey, if the government spent all that time and money killing someone, they must've been bad and deserved it. If you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about, right? At worst it was an unfortunate mistake, and besides, why did the Weavers have to live out in the mountains alone? Forget that just over a century ago Americans were doing just that by the thousands. This is now. Why can't you be like everyone else?

What's really sad is so many people not only believed the evil lies spread about this innocent family, but think they brought it on themselve because they were supposedly neo-nazis. The Weavers were NOT neo-nazis or members of the Aryan nations as reported and repeated so often, but it would seem that too large of a percentage of Americans think it is okay to silence people who hold these unpopular beliefs by any means. For a "fair and balanced account" (to repeat a phrase used by fans of this cess pool of a film) read the well researched Ambush at Ruby Ridge : How Government Agents Set Randy Weaver Up and Took His Family Down. Then you might at least try reading the Weaver's own account of what happened The Federal Siege at Ruby Ridge: In Our Own Words. So many of you have passed judgement on this family and continue to condemn them based on nothing more than seeing a TV program or reading something on the internet. Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
 

Cigarlover

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
5,828
Likes
10,706
#6
The gov learned from their mistakes. Nowadays they get their stories straight before they get to court. In other words the government can kill anyone, anytime, for any reason and get away with it. Happens everyday with the cops. This will continue until people get together and put a stop to it.
 

Krag

Planet earth
Platinum Bling
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
4,727
Likes
3,832
#7
The weird thing was how they chose a guy from National Lampoon's Xmas Vacation, who plays comedic roles. Strange!
 

Krag

Planet earth
Platinum Bling
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
4,727
Likes
3,832
#9
Janet fucking reamo, another sexual deviate/pervert ! Need I say more ???

View attachment 120314
Actually, it was under Bush that Ruby Ridge happened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge

I'm sure it didn't help the spook's re-election attempt. The Dummycrats usually leave the gun toting wackos alone; the Republican mattoids of course are concerned about their image pulling $hit like this, but they are more ruthless. The IRS and their three letter men under Reagan and Bush was as scary as ever as were the other alphabet agencies.
 

TAEZZAR

LADY JUSTICE ISNT BLIND, SHES JUST AFRAID TO WATCH
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
15,286
Likes
26,938
Location
ORYGUN
#10
Actually, it was under Bush that Ruby Ridge happened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge

I'm sure it didn't help the spook's re-election attempt. The Dummycrats usually leave the gun toting wackos alone; the Republican mattoids of course are concerned about their image pulling $hit like this, but they are more ruthless. The IRS and their three letter men under Reagan and Bush was as scary as ever as were the other alphabet agencies.
Thanks for the correction. I guess my memory is slipping, BUT I stand by my comment "Janet fucking reamo, another sexual deviate/pervert ! Need I say more ???"
 

TAEZZAR

LADY JUSTICE ISNT BLIND, SHES JUST AFRAID TO WATCH
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
15,286
Likes
26,938
Location
ORYGUN
#11
the Gordon Kahl story.
Krag,
That slipped by me somehow. I remember it as it is told below. I think this is a very accurate account of events. This is the story that was never publicized much.
EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS & UNDERSTAND THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD RATHER SEE YOU DEAD THAN TO NOT GET THEIR TAXES (BLOOD MONEY)

The tactics used here are quite similar to what was used on the Bundy's & LaVoy Finicum !

Source: https://www.constitution.org/abus/gkahl/kahl.htm

The Uncensored
Gordon Kahl Story

From rumills@rumormillnews.com
3-25-00
Well it's tax time people...and for those of you who don't remember... or never heard the story...I thought I might send this along for you to see just how enslaved we are...and what might happen if you fail to pay homage to your master, the federal government. Pete
THE UNCENSORED GORDON KAHL STORY In 1968, Tax Protestor Gordon Kahl stopped filing IRS 1040 Income Tax Returns. For 9 years thereafter, the IRS ignored him, but in 1977 after Gordon Kahl spoke on an evening radio talk show regarding the illicitness of the income tax, some 250 phone calls would come into the radio station over the next two days; either supporting Kahl in some aspect, or pledging never to file another tax return.

And with that, the IRS came down on Kahl like a ton of bricks. They quickly assembled a case against him and two weeks later threw a criminal prosecution against him for violating Title 26, Section 7203 ["Willful Failure to File"]. Gordon Kahl was a low-income farmer not even meeting minimal statutory standards for threshold income levels achieved before being required to file 1040s, but that was not about to stop the IRS, who is good at changing the facts by creating facts.Convicted and incarcerated, when out of Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary on parole, Kahl left the Texas judicial district he was confined to by claiming that some aspect of the Restriction Orders was defective. He soon moved to North Dakota -- and there, he met his fate. A criminal Summons issued from a Federal Court in Midland, Texas was served on Gordon Kahl on August 8, 1980, charging him with a misdemeansor. Gordon Kahl responded by informing the Court that he would not be appearing, and the matter was allowed to be deferred until March 31, 1982, when the Justice Department obtained a Federal Arrest Warrant citing his parole violation.

Then, that Warrant was held up again until July 26, 1982, some 16 months later, when it was sent to the U.S. Marshals Office in Fargo, North Dakota on February 13, 1983. The United States Marshals and the Federal Court in Texas knew of his whereabouts in North Dakota at all times. After a two and one half year delay in the case, the fact that there was a "problem" controlling the prosecution of the case is self-evident.If that chronology had been published in the New York Times in the context of discussing some other unfortunate incident that had happened, it would be referred to, very defensively of the Government of course, as mere "bureaucratic bungling," in an attempt to discredit the obvious interposition of the "Lateness of the Hour" operating against the Government to bar the legitimacy of their management of the case.Once again Gordon Kahl had attracted the attention of the United StatesGovernment. With the personality known as Ronald Reagan acquiescing indifferently as President, and with William French Smith sitting as Attorney General, the word came down the pipeline to GET RID OF GORDON KAHL, and the stage was set for the kind of confrontation the Feds wanted.A violent attack was planned against Gordon Kahl at his farmhouse, and it was going to be well publicized. The attack would be in the form of a roadblock, it would be in the evening hours, and it would occur in a remote rural area. The timing of the attack in February of 1983 was selected to coincide with the trials of other related criminal prosecutions then going on that would be favorably tipped towards the Government, as the Juries were exposed to what would be surfacing visibly on the news as the Gordon Kahl "incident."From his farm in Heaton, North Dakota, both Gordon Kahl, along with his neighbors, and the Chief of Police of Medina, North Dakota, Darrell Graff, all had received several advanced notices that the United States Marshals were planning a very unpleasant reception for Gordon Kahl, and in the case of Darrell Graff, he was told bluntly to stay out of it.Rather than meet his adversaries face-to-face to settle the grievance at that lower level, Gordon Kahl improvidently ignored the gathering storm and tossed aside the Warrant, thus giving his adversaries the benefit of intensifying the impending confrontation into an elevated status -- a level that originates out of the barrel of a gun, where the Feds were quite likely to prevail. Although that did not give the United States Marshals the right to come out first and shoot Kahl, it does however require that other people in difficult positions with juristic authorities facing contemplated extermination itself, should not replicate Gordon Kahl's modus operandi.On the 14th of February, 1983, Gordon Kahl, accompanied by his wife and son Yori, left a meeting in a Medina, North Dakota commercial district and headed home. Gordon Kahl was under surveillance and he knew it. He could have been picked up at the meeting, but the Feds had a surprise for him and wanted the remoteness of a rural environment. His son Yori detected something adverse and dangerous in the air, and so he took his father's jacket and cap and wore those on himself on the ride home that afternoon.

Not far from his farmhouse a roadblock had been set up by U.S. Marshal Kenneth Muir. It was a very unusual roadblock in that it had an ambulance and firetruck waiting there. Yes, there was going to be some trouble. The Marshal had not come to arrest, but to murder. Bringing neither the Arrest Warrant, nor any identification, Deputy Muir brought his gun and orders to terminate Gordon Kahl.Arriving at the roadblock, Gordon's son, Yori Kahl, fled the pickup truck and ran to a nearby telephone pole for cover. Thinking that Yori was his dad Gordon, Marshal Muir opened the shooting by firing several shots at Yori.Yori did not fall to the ground quick enough to satisfy the killer Marshal, so Marshal Muir kept on shooting until Yori fell. After spending a while at the hospital, Yori Kahl would actually survive to be charged with murder, and later convicted by a jury in a Star Chamber that was highly pressured by the U.S. Marshals and had numerous other fatal irregularities that would never survive reversal on appeal.Back at the evening roadblock, after seeing his own son cut down by Marshal Muir, Gordon Kahl grabbed a gun and let Marshal Muir have it, killing him and Deputy Marshal Robert Chesire. Injured was Deputy Marshal James Hopson.Staying in the background, looking at all of this shooting and profanity being thrown about, was Chief Darrell Graff of the Medina Police Department, who was told in advance that Kahl was going to buy the farm, and that he was to stay out of it. Gordon went over to the telephone pole, dragged his son Yori, white with blood loss and bleeding profusely, over to an unmarked police car, drove him to a hospital back in Medina, and then as a thick fog quickly settled in on the Fargo countryside, Gordon Kahl sped away into the night.Soon, a swarm of military stormtroopers descended on Fargo, in military clothing and using military trucks [see Time Magazine ["Dakota Dragnet"], page 25 (February 28, 1983)]. They were on search and destroy orders. Gordon Kahl was immediately placed on the FBI's ten most wanted list, and was the subject of the most intensive fugitive search in the history of the FBI. It was a massive operation.A tight clampdown was put out in North Dakota, accompanied with extensive random stops of motor vehicles, but nothing ever turned up. For Gordon Kahl, thousands of armed forces were called into search the surrounding North Dakota countryside. Every available private bounty hunter known to the FBI was hired and put on the case, but fugitive Gordon Kahl slipped through it all.In comparison to what they can do when they feel like it, it is worthwhile noting how J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI never showed any such interest in capturing unknown fleeing killers when President Kennedy was shot in Dallas.No roadblocks, no dragnets, no manhunts, no searching -- nothing but CIA agents carrying Secret Service credentials restraining people from approaching the grassy knoll for about 10 minutes.For the next three months, Gordon Kahl had found a home with some friends, Mr. and Mrs. Ginter, and a Mr. Russell, who kept moving him quietly from house to house. It was rather obvious to anyone that if he was ever found, he would be killed immediately.In time, Mr. Russell's daughter, Karen Russell Robertson, noticed that her father was hiding Gordon Kahl. Possessed with First Person evidence ["I saw...," "I heard..."], she in turn went to the FBI and spilled the beans. She was given $25,000 and the promise of immunity from prosecution [see the New York Times ["Arkansans Guilty in Tax Rebel Case"], page A19 (October 19, 1983)].The rural house where Gordon Kahl was staying was placed under FBI surveillance; but the results were inconclusive. On the morning of June 4th, a special FBI team of animals and savage killers [which is no exaggeration], known as the FBI SWAT TEAM, left their home base in Washington, D.C. and flew into Lawrence County, Arkansas on a private FBI jet. There, they were met by local FBI agents, other FBI agents, the Arkansas State Police, the Sheriff of Lawrence County, Arkansas, his deputies, and a confluence of United States Marshals assembled from across the country. Several Marshals invited to the Kahl execution operation arrived too late and missed it.Later in the afternoon, it all began. The quiet, isolated and remote house was cordoned off, roadblocks were set up, and all without Gordon Kahl detecting anything amiss. Soon that afternoon, Mr. Ginter left the house alone and he was stopped down the road. He claimed his wife, Norma Ginter, was in the house alone. Now, the house where Gordon Kahl was living was more closely surrounded, and Sheriff Gene Matthews went to the front door to remove Mrs. Ginter from the scene.With her out of the way, the FBI started open shooting, and saturated the house with bullets; but the earth shelter house was made with concrete walls and Gordon Kahl survived through it all without a scratch. The 36 year old local Sheriff, Gene Matthews, was killed incidental to the FBI siege on the Gordon Kahl hideout.After a while, as the firing stopped, the FBI cordoned off the house for themselves while the Delta Force animals converged on the house like starved panthers going for a piece of meat. They found Gordon Kahl alive and well inside the home, hiding behind the refrigerator. He was taken to the living room, thrown on the floor, and was worked over with the butt end of their rifles. While numerous bones were being fractured and his teeth were being smashed in, other members of Delta Force went on a rampage in the house, smashing pictures and the television set, over-turning furniture, a copier, and taking a fireman's axe and chopping up a bookshelf.While Gordon Kahl was pinned to the floor by the 6 to 8 Delta Force panthers, still under attack from the gun butts, the FBI agent with the fireman's axe turned to Gordon Kahl himself and chopped off his hand. Then he went around and chopped off Gordon Kahl's other hand, and then both of his feet were severed. While screaming with pain and with blood gushing out profusely over the floor where his hands and feet used to be, Gordon Kahl was shot in the head at close range, killing him.A local Deputy Sheriff was given the honor of removing the bullet from Gordon Kahl's head [later that week, the deputy would tell a neighbor that he had not eaten in three days]. When local people viewed Gordon Kahl's dismembered body, they became nauseous and sick, stating that the man they just hacked apart was not Gordon Kahl, but Mr. William Wade, who was the owner of the land and resembled Gordon Kahl closely in age and appearance, and was well known to the Sheriff and others personally.There was confusion; immediately there was trouble. A massive series of roadblocks were erected again, and the thorough searching of all automobiles over a wide radius was started; it was believed that Gordon Kahl had slipped out once again.Local residents monitoring the operation on the police radio band heard a call made for some gasoline to be delivered to the house. Now that the murder of Gordon Kahl had been botched, the Feds were going to cover their own tracks and torch the place. The Delta Force animals left the place with extensive blood stains covering their clothes and took the private FBI jet back to Washington.The roadblocks were called off when Mr. Wade, the owner of the land, showed up in town alive and well. The body of Sheriff Matthews was taken to a local hospital, while later in the evening after the fire the Feds had set had died down, the charred body of Gordon Kahl was taken to the local coroner.The dismembered body was later identified as being that of Gordon Kahl. But the bodies and the house were only lightly charred, since the house was fabricated from cast concrete walls and the fire never got that intense. The corpse identified as being Gordon Kahl's was missing teeth, hands, and feet, had a bullet hole in the head (without a bullet), and was extensively covered with tissue bruises and fractured bones. It was very shocking and disgusting, as people who saw photographs of Gordon Kahl's charred remains, taken by the coroner, reported a stark and terrified look on his charred face; he had died in extreme terror, screaming violently from the pain. They had gotten their man.The man who was Director of the FBI at the time that this murder operation was being performed, was William Webster. He personally supervised it. And when you get to know William Webster very well, you will become acquainted with a great murderer.Gordon Kahl was later buried with military honors -- whatever that meant.His wife back in North Dakota received several mean and ugly death threats from the Feds to keep quite or be murdered herself. Meanwhile, the rest of the country went on like Alice strolling through Wonderland; believing that all was well and that the Federal Government is your trusted friend, and that some little Tax Protestor over there got what he deserved.Back in Arkansas, while shifting through the smoldering ruins in the kitchen, a reporter for the New York Times accompanied by Ray Wade, the land owner's son, found Gordon Kahl's left foot that had been severed off by the axe.It was taken to the local coroner Dr. Fahmy Malak in Little Rock, confirmed as being Gordon Kahl's sliced off foot. However, this was news not fit to emphasize, and the reporter's story was blurred over when printed [see New York Times ["Gunfight Shatters Tranquility of Arkansas Hills"], page 14 (July 3, 1983)].Mr. and Mrs. Ginter, who had been harboring Gordon Kahl, were charged not only with aiding and abetting a fugitive, but also were fraudulently charged with the murder of Sheriff Matthews. At Trial, the only evidence introduced against them, outside of the background story, was first person evidence from Art Russell's daughter, Karen Russell Robertson, who reported to the Jury what she had seen her father do. And with that eyewitness evidence, the Ginters and Art Russell were convicted and sentenced to protracted incarceration in a Federal Penitentiary [see New York Times ["Arkansans Guilty in Tax Rebel Case"], page A19 (October 19, 1983)].In conclusion, note that a large volume of the continuous reporting that the New York Times and Time Magazine did on the story from February through October, was based, as usual, on the mere replication of whatever the FBI and wire services had told them, as the Government Billboards that they are -- and so their reporting is highly edited, inaccurate, and distorted news. Be advised that there are numerous inconsistencies in those articles between what they have reported [as the Feds are quite good at changing the facts], and what is reported herein. Until their own reporter J.C. Barden actually went to the torched house to dig at facts for himself on the case, some of the real facts never surfaced, and his reported factual details considerably change the character and color of the savage FBI animal attack on Gordon Kahl.Incidentally, Mr. Ray Wade, who found Gordon Kahl's foot, was also threatened with being killed himself if he did not remain silent, as were other local residents who also saw different aspects of the bloody reign of FBI terror that went on during that fateful day -- as the FBI once again allowed itself to be defiled by acting ministerially, without and wanting jurisdiction, on behalf of those presiding in Washington who had handed down the extermination orders.
 

historyrepete

Silver Member
Silver Miner
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
1,824
Likes
2,470
Location
driving thru flyover
#12
Krag,
That slipped by me somehow. I remember it as it is told below. I think this is a very accurate account of events. This is the story that was never publicized much.
EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS & UNDERSTAND THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD RATHER SEE YOU DEAD THAN TO NOT GET THEIR TAXES (BLOOD MONEY)

The tactics used here are quite similar to what was used on the Bundy's & LaVoy Finicum !

Source: https://www.constitution.org/abus/gkahl/kahl.htm

The Uncensored
Gordon Kahl Story

From rumills@rumormillnews.com
3-25-00
Well it's tax time people...and for those of you who don't remember... or never heard the story...I thought I might send this along for you to see just how enslaved we are...and what might happen if you fail to pay homage to your master, the federal government. Pete
THE UNCENSORED GORDON KAHL STORY In 1968, Tax Protestor Gordon Kahl stopped filing IRS 1040 Income Tax Returns. For 9 years thereafter, the IRS ignored him, but in 1977 after Gordon Kahl spoke on an evening radio talk show regarding the illicitness of the income tax, some 250 phone calls would come into the radio station over the next two days; either supporting Kahl in some aspect, or pledging never to file another tax return.

And with that, the IRS came down on Kahl like a ton of bricks. They quickly assembled a case against him and two weeks later threw a criminal prosecution against him for violating Title 26, Section 7203 ["Willful Failure to File"]. Gordon Kahl was a low-income farmer not even meeting minimal statutory standards for threshold income levels achieved before being required to file 1040s, but that was not about to stop the IRS, who is good at changing the facts by creating facts.Convicted and incarcerated, when out of Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary on parole, Kahl left the Texas judicial district he was confined to by claiming that some aspect of the Restriction Orders was defective. He soon moved to North Dakota -- and there, he met his fate. A criminal Summons issued from a Federal Court in Midland, Texas was served on Gordon Kahl on August 8, 1980, charging him with a misdemeansor. Gordon Kahl responded by informing the Court that he would not be appearing, and the matter was allowed to be deferred until March 31, 1982, when the Justice Department obtained a Federal Arrest Warrant citing his parole violation.

Then, that Warrant was held up again until July 26, 1982, some 16 months later, when it was sent to the U.S. Marshals Office in Fargo, North Dakota on February 13, 1983. The United States Marshals and the Federal Court in Texas knew of his whereabouts in North Dakota at all times. After a two and one half year delay in the case, the fact that there was a "problem" controlling the prosecution of the case is self-evident.If that chronology had been published in the New York Times in the context of discussing some other unfortunate incident that had happened, it would be referred to, very defensively of the Government of course, as mere "bureaucratic bungling," in an attempt to discredit the obvious interposition of the "Lateness of the Hour" operating against the Government to bar the legitimacy of their management of the case.Once again Gordon Kahl had attracted the attention of the United StatesGovernment. With the personality known as Ronald Reagan acquiescing indifferently as President, and with William French Smith sitting as Attorney General, the word came down the pipeline to GET RID OF GORDON KAHL, and the stage was set for the kind of confrontation the Feds wanted.A violent attack was planned against Gordon Kahl at his farmhouse, and it was going to be well publicized. The attack would be in the form of a roadblock, it would be in the evening hours, and it would occur in a remote rural area. The timing of the attack in February of 1983 was selected to coincide with the trials of other related criminal prosecutions then going on that would be favorably tipped towards the Government, as the Juries were exposed to what would be surfacing visibly on the news as the Gordon Kahl "incident."From his farm in Heaton, North Dakota, both Gordon Kahl, along with his neighbors, and the Chief of Police of Medina, North Dakota, Darrell Graff, all had received several advanced notices that the United States Marshals were planning a very unpleasant reception for Gordon Kahl, and in the case of Darrell Graff, he was told bluntly to stay out of it.Rather than meet his adversaries face-to-face to settle the grievance at that lower level, Gordon Kahl improvidently ignored the gathering storm and tossed aside the Warrant, thus giving his adversaries the benefit of intensifying the impending confrontation into an elevated status -- a level that originates out of the barrel of a gun, where the Feds were quite likely to prevail. Although that did not give the United States Marshals the right to come out first and shoot Kahl, it does however require that other people in difficult positions with juristic authorities facing contemplated extermination itself, should not replicate Gordon Kahl's modus operandi.On the 14th of February, 1983, Gordon Kahl, accompanied by his wife and son Yori, left a meeting in a Medina, North Dakota commercial district and headed home. Gordon Kahl was under surveillance and he knew it. He could have been picked up at the meeting, but the Feds had a surprise for him and wanted the remoteness of a rural environment. His son Yori detected something adverse and dangerous in the air, and so he took his father's jacket and cap and wore those on himself on the ride home that afternoon.

Not far from his farmhouse a roadblock had been set up by U.S. Marshal Kenneth Muir. It was a very unusual roadblock in that it had an ambulance and firetruck waiting there. Yes, there was going to be some trouble. The Marshal had not come to arrest, but to murder. Bringing neither the Arrest Warrant, nor any identification, Deputy Muir brought his gun and orders to terminate Gordon Kahl.Arriving at the roadblock, Gordon's son, Yori Kahl, fled the pickup truck and ran to a nearby telephone pole for cover. Thinking that Yori was his dad Gordon, Marshal Muir opened the shooting by firing several shots at Yori.Yori did not fall to the ground quick enough to satisfy the killer Marshal, so Marshal Muir kept on shooting until Yori fell. After spending a while at the hospital, Yori Kahl would actually survive to be charged with murder, and later convicted by a jury in a Star Chamber that was highly pressured by the U.S. Marshals and had numerous other fatal irregularities that would never survive reversal on appeal.Back at the evening roadblock, after seeing his own son cut down by Marshal Muir, Gordon Kahl grabbed a gun and let Marshal Muir have it, killing him and Deputy Marshal Robert Chesire. Injured was Deputy Marshal James Hopson.Staying in the background, looking at all of this shooting and profanity being thrown about, was Chief Darrell Graff of the Medina Police Department, who was told in advance that Kahl was going to buy the farm, and that he was to stay out of it. Gordon went over to the telephone pole, dragged his son Yori, white with blood loss and bleeding profusely, over to an unmarked police car, drove him to a hospital back in Medina, and then as a thick fog quickly settled in on the Fargo countryside, Gordon Kahl sped away into the night.Soon, a swarm of military stormtroopers descended on Fargo, in military clothing and using military trucks [see Time Magazine ["Dakota Dragnet"], page 25 (February 28, 1983)]. They were on search and destroy orders. Gordon Kahl was immediately placed on the FBI's ten most wanted list, and was the subject of the most intensive fugitive search in the history of the FBI. It was a massive operation.A tight clampdown was put out in North Dakota, accompanied with extensive random stops of motor vehicles, but nothing ever turned up. For Gordon Kahl, thousands of armed forces were called into search the surrounding North Dakota countryside. Every available private bounty hunter known to the FBI was hired and put on the case, but fugitive Gordon Kahl slipped through it all.In comparison to what they can do when they feel like it, it is worthwhile noting how J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI never showed any such interest in capturing unknown fleeing killers when President Kennedy was shot in Dallas.No roadblocks, no dragnets, no manhunts, no searching -- nothing but CIA agents carrying Secret Service credentials restraining people from approaching the grassy knoll for about 10 minutes.For the next three months, Gordon Kahl had found a home with some friends, Mr. and Mrs. Ginter, and a Mr. Russell, who kept moving him quietly from house to house. It was rather obvious to anyone that if he was ever found, he would be killed immediately.In time, Mr. Russell's daughter, Karen Russell Robertson, noticed that her father was hiding Gordon Kahl. Possessed with First Person evidence ["I saw...," "I heard..."], she in turn went to the FBI and spilled the beans. She was given $25,000 and the promise of immunity from prosecution [see the New York Times ["Arkansans Guilty in Tax Rebel Case"], page A19 (October 19, 1983)].The rural house where Gordon Kahl was staying was placed under FBI surveillance; but the results were inconclusive. On the morning of June 4th, a special FBI team of animals and savage killers [which is no exaggeration], known as the FBI SWAT TEAM, left their home base in Washington, D.C. and flew into Lawrence County, Arkansas on a private FBI jet. There, they were met by local FBI agents, other FBI agents, the Arkansas State Police, the Sheriff of Lawrence County, Arkansas, his deputies, and a confluence of United States Marshals assembled from across the country. Several Marshals invited to the Kahl execution operation arrived too late and missed it.Later in the afternoon, it all began. The quiet, isolated and remote house was cordoned off, roadblocks were set up, and all without Gordon Kahl detecting anything amiss. Soon that afternoon, Mr. Ginter left the house alone and he was stopped down the road. He claimed his wife, Norma Ginter, was in the house alone. Now, the house where Gordon Kahl was living was more closely surrounded, and Sheriff Gene Matthews went to the front door to remove Mrs. Ginter from the scene.With her out of the way, the FBI started open shooting, and saturated the house with bullets; but the earth shelter house was made with concrete walls and Gordon Kahl survived through it all without a scratch. The 36 year old local Sheriff, Gene Matthews, was killed incidental to the FBI siege on the Gordon Kahl hideout.After a while, as the firing stopped, the FBI cordoned off the house for themselves while the Delta Force animals converged on the house like starved panthers going for a piece of meat. They found Gordon Kahl alive and well inside the home, hiding behind the refrigerator. He was taken to the living room, thrown on the floor, and was worked over with the butt end of their rifles. While numerous bones were being fractured and his teeth were being smashed in, other members of Delta Force went on a rampage in the house, smashing pictures and the television set, over-turning furniture, a copier, and taking a fireman's axe and chopping up a bookshelf.While Gordon Kahl was pinned to the floor by the 6 to 8 Delta Force panthers, still under attack from the gun butts, the FBI agent with the fireman's axe turned to Gordon Kahl himself and chopped off his hand. Then he went around and chopped off Gordon Kahl's other hand, and then both of his feet were severed. While screaming with pain and with blood gushing out profusely over the floor where his hands and feet used to be, Gordon Kahl was shot in the head at close range, killing him.A local Deputy Sheriff was given the honor of removing the bullet from Gordon Kahl's head [later that week, the deputy would tell a neighbor that he had not eaten in three days]. When local people viewed Gordon Kahl's dismembered body, they became nauseous and sick, stating that the man they just hacked apart was not Gordon Kahl, but Mr. William Wade, who was the owner of the land and resembled Gordon Kahl closely in age and appearance, and was well known to the Sheriff and others personally.There was confusion; immediately there was trouble. A massive series of roadblocks were erected again, and the thorough searching of all automobiles over a wide radius was started; it was believed that Gordon Kahl had slipped out once again.Local residents monitoring the operation on the police radio band heard a call made for some gasoline to be delivered to the house. Now that the murder of Gordon Kahl had been botched, the Feds were going to cover their own tracks and torch the place. The Delta Force animals left the place with extensive blood stains covering their clothes and took the private FBI jet back to Washington.The roadblocks were called off when Mr. Wade, the owner of the land, showed up in town alive and well. The body of Sheriff Matthews was taken to a local hospital, while later in the evening after the fire the Feds had set had died down, the charred body of Gordon Kahl was taken to the local coroner.The dismembered body was later identified as being that of Gordon Kahl. But the bodies and the house were only lightly charred, since the house was fabricated from cast concrete walls and the fire never got that intense. The corpse identified as being Gordon Kahl's was missing teeth, hands, and feet, had a bullet hole in the head (without a bullet), and was extensively covered with tissue bruises and fractured bones. It was very shocking and disgusting, as people who saw photographs of Gordon Kahl's charred remains, taken by the coroner, reported a stark and terrified look on his charred face; he had died in extreme terror, screaming violently from the pain. They had gotten their man.The man who was Director of the FBI at the time that this murder operation was being performed, was William Webster. He personally supervised it. And when you get to know William Webster very well, you will become acquainted with a great murderer.Gordon Kahl was later buried with military honors -- whatever that meant.His wife back in North Dakota received several mean and ugly death threats from the Feds to keep quite or be murdered herself. Meanwhile, the rest of the country went on like Alice strolling through Wonderland; believing that all was well and that the Federal Government is your trusted friend, and that some little Tax Protestor over there got what he deserved.Back in Arkansas, while shifting through the smoldering ruins in the kitchen, a reporter for the New York Times accompanied by Ray Wade, the land owner's son, found Gordon Kahl's left foot that had been severed off by the axe.It was taken to the local coroner Dr. Fahmy Malak in Little Rock, confirmed as being Gordon Kahl's sliced off foot. However, this was news not fit to emphasize, and the reporter's story was blurred over when printed [see New York Times ["Gunfight Shatters Tranquility of Arkansas Hills"], page 14 (July 3, 1983)].Mr. and Mrs. Ginter, who had been harboring Gordon Kahl, were charged not only with aiding and abetting a fugitive, but also were fraudulently charged with the murder of Sheriff Matthews. At Trial, the only evidence introduced against them, outside of the background story, was first person evidence from Art Russell's daughter, Karen Russell Robertson, who reported to the Jury what she had seen her father do. And with that eyewitness evidence, the Ginters and Art Russell were convicted and sentenced to protracted incarceration in a Federal Penitentiary [see New York Times ["Arkansans Guilty in Tax Rebel Case"], page A19 (October 19, 1983)].In conclusion, note that a large volume of the continuous reporting that the New York Times and Time Magazine did on the story from February through October, was based, as usual, on the mere replication of whatever the FBI and wire services had told them, as the Government Billboards that they are -- and so their reporting is highly edited, inaccurate, and distorted news. Be advised that there are numerous inconsistencies in those articles between what they have reported [as the Feds are quite good at changing the facts], and what is reported herein. Until their own reporter J.C. Barden actually went to the torched house to dig at facts for himself on the case, some of the real facts never surfaced, and his reported factual details considerably change the character and color of the savage FBI animal attack on Gordon Kahl.Incidentally, Mr. Ray Wade, who found Gordon Kahl's foot, was also threatened with being killed himself if he did not remain silent, as were other local residents who also saw different aspects of the bloody reign of FBI terror that went on during that fateful day -- as the FBI once again allowed itself to be defiled by acting ministerially, without and wanting jurisdiction, on behalf of those presiding in Washington who had handed down the extermination orders.
I wasn't familiar with this man' story. Thanks
 

TAEZZAR

LADY JUSTICE ISNT BLIND, SHES JUST AFRAID TO WATCH
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
15,286
Likes
26,938
Location
ORYGUN
#13
I hope this is not severe thread hi-jacking, as this thread is about Fed Gov. severe abuse of authority.

Another forgotten hero is Irwin Schiff, you may not know Irwin, but you probably know his son, Peter Schiff.

It was around 1985ish that my friend & I were at the Las Vegas Gun Show. As we were leaving Vegas, we heard Irwin Schiff's radio program on incomes tax. He invited his listener's to drop by . We dropped by & had a great 2 hour conversation, mostly listening to Irwin. He was later arrested, convicted & spent his final years in a federal prison.
This is his book that the Fed's forbid him to sell !!
It is a free download.


https://www.paynoincometax.com/pdf/federal_mafia.pdf

Fed Mafia.jpg
 

Krag

Planet earth
Platinum Bling
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
4,727
Likes
3,832
#14
I spoke to a number of Constitutionalists, non-filers and others who were non-compliant with the federal and tax system, most didn't make that much compared to how much the top half or so make. Probably it was the family members and other anecdotal stories that went out on how people's lives were being ruined which caused them to go after the so-called leaders.

If I were advising people, I would say that some self-employed could just do the legal thing and use all their deductions. I was a non-filer for over 12 years and had lots of money going through my accounts. Unless you are a real tax protester, the IRS probably won't harass you. Try operating without an SS number even getting a driver's license. A continual hassle.

I had Andrew Melechinsky's book on Gordon Kahl, scary indeed the lengths they went to to rub him out. The military IRS, many former military people work for them. No mercy.
 

TAEZZAR

LADY JUSTICE ISNT BLIND, SHES JUST AFRAID TO WATCH
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
15,286
Likes
26,938
Location
ORYGUN
#15
I spoke to a number of Constitutionalists, non-filers and others who were non-compliant with the federal and tax system, most didn't make that much compared to how much the top half or so make. Probably it was the family members and other anecdotal stories that went out on how people's lives were being ruined which caused them to go after the so-called leaders.

If I were advising people, I would say that some self-employed could just do the legal thing and use all their deductions. I was a non-filer for over 12 years and had lots of money going through my accounts. Unless you are a real tax protester, the IRS probably won't harass you. Try operating without an SS number even getting a driver's license. A continual hassle.

I had Andrew Melechinsky's book on Gordon Kahl, scary indeed the lengths they went to to rub him out. The military IRS, many former military people work for them. No mercy.
Here is a link to more about Gordon Kahl. It starts with a lengthy statement by Gordon and has a lot of ref. info.

http://thelastoutpost.com/irs/gordon-kahl.html
 

JDRock

Seeker
Seeker
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
411
Likes
571
#17
He would have STILL been in jail guilty on every single count if my tiny towns heroic lawyer Gerry Spence not taken the case pro bono. He was waaay to high profile to ignore and way to smart for the feds. He was so distrustful of gov. That his tv interviews HAD to be taped from wyoming. He feared an ambush by the feds.
 

Krag

Planet earth
Platinum Bling
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
4,727
Likes
3,832
#18

TAEZZAR

LADY JUSTICE ISNT BLIND, SHES JUST AFRAID TO WATCH
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
15,286
Likes
26,938
Location
ORYGUN
#19
I followed Spence probably 25 or more years ago. He was very good ay what he did !
 

Mr Paradise

Midas Member
Midas Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
8,252
Likes
9,050
Location
Lake Superior
#20
The weird thing was how they chose a guy from National Lampoon's Xmas Vacation, who plays comedic roles. Strange!
Randy’s had lots of non comedic roles. He was an academy award nominee long before he was Cousin Eddy.
 

Krag

Planet earth
Platinum Bling
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
4,727
Likes
3,832
#21
Randy’s had lots of non comedic roles. He was an academy award nominee long before he was Cousin Eddy.
True, but I would characterize Quaid as a "sanguine" persona. Randy Weaver is more of a melancholic sort. Hollywood didn't want to give Weaver any positive press. Look at Quaid's roles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Quaid

A lot of actors would have been willing and able to play Randy Weaver as a flawed tragic victim with some dimension, instead of an unstable whack job.
 

Krag

Planet earth
Platinum Bling
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
4,727
Likes
3,832
#22
I followed Spence probably 25 or more years ago. He was very good ay what he did !
On this case, Spence got angry concerns from Jewish people and others on the left asking him not to represent Weaver. I found his obsequience to this Jewish Hirschfield disgusting, how dare this guy deny justice to a truly suffering man like Weaver?

The following excerpt comes from Gerry Spence's From Freedom to Slavery, the Rebirth of Freedom in America (1996)(pp. 13-50). It is reprinted here with the permission of the author. It includes a letter that the Wyoming defense lawyer wrote to a friend who had urged that he withdraw from the Weaver case. Spence's friend, the Jewish former CEO of Columbia Pictures, expressed concern that Spence's defense of Weaver would lend credibility to the "despicable" racist and neo-Nazi groups with which the Weaver family had been associated.
Randy Weaver's wife was dead, shot through the head while she clutched her child to her breast. His son was shot, twice. First they shot the child's arm, probably destroyed the arm. The child cried out. Then, as the child was running they shot him in the back. Randy Weaver himself had been shot and wounded and Kevin Harris, a kid the Weavers had all but adopted was dying of a chest wound. The blood hadn't cooled on Ruby Hill before the national media announced that I had taken the defense of Randy Weaver. Then all hell broke loose. My sister wrote me decrying my defense of this "racist". There were letters to the editors in several papers that expressed their disappointment that I would lend my services to a person with Weaver's beliefs. And I received a letter from my close friend Alan Hirschfield, the former chairman of chief executive officer of Columbia Pictures and Twentieth Century Fox, imploring me to withdraw.

He wrote:
"After much thought I decided to write this letter to you. It represents a very profound concern on my part regarding your decision to represent Randy Weaver. While I applaud and fully understand your motives in taking such a case, I nonetheless find this individual defense troubling. It is so because of the respectability and credibility your involvement imparts to a cause which I find despicable...."

The next morning I delivered the following letter by carrier to Mr. Hirschfield:

"I cherish your letter. It reminds me once again of our friendship, for only friends can speak and hear each other in matters so deeply a part of the soul. And your letter reminds me as well, as we must all be reminded, of the unspeakable pain every Jew has suffered from the horrors of the Holocaust. No better evidence of our friendship could be shown than your intense caring concerning what I do and what I stand for.
I met Randy Weaver in jail on the evening of his surrender. His eyes had no light in them. He was unshaven and dirty. He was naked except for yellow plastic prison coveralls, and he was cold. His small feet were clad in rubber prison sandals. In the stark setting of the prison conference room he seemed diminutive and fragile. He had spent 11 days and nights in a standoff against the government and he had lost. His wife was dead. His son was dead. His friend was near death. Weaver himself had been wounded. He had lost his freedom. He had lost it all. And now he stood face to face with a stranger who towered over him and whose words were not words of comfort. When I spoke, you, Alan, were on my mind.

"My name is Gerry Spence" I began. "I'm the lawyer you've been told about. Before we begin to talk I want you to understand that I do not share any of your political or religious beliefs. Many of my dearest friends are Jews. My daughter is married to a Jew. My sister is married to a black man. She has adopted a black child. I deplore what the Nazis stand for. If I defend you I will not defend your political beliefs or your religious beliefs, but your right as an American citizen to a fair trial." His quiet answer was, "That is all I ask." Then I motioned him to a red plastic chair and I took a similar one. And as the guards marched by and from time to time peered in, he told his story.

Alan, you are a good and fair man. That I know. Were it otherwise we would not be such friends. Yet it is your pain I hear most clearly--exacerbated, I know, by the fact that your friend should represent your enemy. Yet what drew me to this case was my own pain. Let me tell you the facts.
Randy Weaver's principal crime against the government had been his failure to appear in court on a charge of possessing illegal firearms. The first crime was not his. He had been entrapped--intentionally, systematically, patiently, purposefully entrapped--by a federal agent who solicited him to cut off, contrary to Federal law, the barrels of a couple of shotguns. Randy Weaver never owned an illegal weapon in his life. He was not engaged in the manufacture of illegal weapons. The idea of selling an illegal firearm had never entered his mind until the government agent suggested it and encouraged him to act illegally. The government knew he needed the money. He is as poor as an empty cupboard. He had three daughters, a son and a wife to support. He lived in a small house in the woods without electricity or running water. Although he is a small, frail man, with tiny, delicate hands who probably weighs no more than a hundred and twenty pounds, he made an honest living by chopping firewood and by seasonal work as a logger.

This man is wrong, his beliefs are wrong. His relationship to mankind is wrong. He was perhaps legally wrong when he failed to appear and defend himself in court. But the first wrong was not his. Nor was the first wrong the government's. The first wrong was ours.
In this country we embrace the myth that we are still a democracy when we know that we are not a democracy, that we are not free, that the government does not serve us but subjugates us. Although we give lip service to the notion of freedom, we know the government is no longer the servant of the people but, at last has become the people's master. We have stood by like timid sheep while the wolf killed, first the weak, then the strays, then those on the outer edges of the flock, until at last the entire flock belonged to the wolf. We did not care about the weak or about the strays. They were not a part of the flock. We did not care about those on the outer edges. They had chosen to be there. But as the wolf worked its way towards the center of the flock we discovered that we were now on the outer edges. Now we must look the wolf squarely in the eye. That we did not do so when the first of us was ripped and torn and eaten was the first wrong. It was our wrong.
That none of us felt responsible for having lost our freedom has been a part of an insidious progression. In the beginning the attention of the flock was directed not to the marauding wolf but to our own deviant members within the flock. We rejoiced as the wolf destroyed them for they were our enemies. We were told that the weak lay under the rocks while we faced the blizzards to rustle our food, and we did not care when the wolf took them. We argued that they deserved it. When one of our flock faced the wolf alone it was always eaten. Each of us was afraid of the wolf, but as a flock we were not afraid. Indeed the wolf cleansed the herd by destroying the weak and dismembering the aberrant element within. As time went by, strangely, the herd felt more secure under the rule of the wolf. It believed that by belonging to this wolf it would remain safe from all the other wolves. But
we were eaten just the same.

No one knows better than children of the Holocaust how the lessons of history must never be forgotten. Yet Americans, whose battle cry was once, "Give me liberty or give me death", have sat placidly by as a new king was crowned. In America a new king was crowned by the shrug of our shoulders when our neighbors were wrongfully seized. A new king was crowned when we capitulated to a regime that is no longer sensitive to people, but to non-people--to corporations, to money and to power. The new king was crowned when we turned our heads as the new king was crowned as we turned our heads as the poor and the forgotten and the damned were rendered mute and defenseless, not because they were evil but because, in the scheme of our lives, they seemed unimportant, not because they were essentially dangerous but because they were essentially powerless. The new king was crowned when we cheered the government on as it prosecuted the progeny of our ghettos and filled our prisons with black men whose first crime was that they were born in the ghettos. We cheered the new king on as it diluted our right to be secure in our homes against unlawful searches and to be secure in the courts against unlawful evidence. We cheered the new king on because we were told that our sacred rights were but "loopholes" but which our enemies: the murderers and rapists and thieves and drug dealers, escaped. We were told that those who fought for our rights, the lawyers, were worse than the thieves who stole from us in the night, that our juries were irresponsible and ignorant and ought not to be trusted. We watched with barely more than a mumble as the legal system that once protected us became populated with judges who were appointed by the new king. At last the new king was crowned when we forgot the lessons of history, that when the rights of our enemies have been wrested from them, we have lost our own rights as well, for the same rights serve both citizen and criminal.
When Randy Weaver failed to appear in court because he had lost his trust in the government we witnessed the fruit of our crime. The government indeed had no intent to protect his rights. The government had but one purpose, as it remains today, the disengagement of this citizen from society. Those who suffered and died in the Holocaust must have exquisitely understood such illicit motivations of power.
I have said that I was attracted to the case out of my own pain. Let me tell you the facts: a crack team of trained government marksmen sneaked on to Randy Weaver's small isolated acreage on a reconnaissance mission preparatory to a contemplated arrest. They wore camouflage suits and were heavily armed. They gave Randy no warning of their coming. They came without a warrant. They never identified themselves.
The Weavers owned 3 dogs, 2 small crossbred collie mutts and a yellow lab, a big pup a little over a year old whose most potent weapon was his tail with which he could beat a full grown man to death. The dog, Striker, was a close member of the Weaver family. Not only was he the companion of the children, but in winter he pulled the family sled to haul their water supply from the spring below. When the dogs discovered the intruders they raised a ruckus, and Randy his friend Kevin, and Randy's 14 year old son Sam, grabbed their guns and followed the dogs to investigate.
When the government agents were confronted with the barking dog, they did what men who have been taught to kill do. They shot Striker. The boy, barely larger than a 10 year old child, heard the dog's yelp, saw the dog fall dead. and as a 14 year old might, he returned the fire. Then the government agents shot the child in the arm. He turned and ran. the arm flopping, and when he did, the officers, still unidentified as such, shot the child in the back and killed him.

Kevin Harris witnessed the shooting of the dog. Then he saw Sam being shot as the boy turned and ran. To Kevin there was no alternative. He knew if he ran these intruders, whoever they were, would kill him as well. In defense of himself he raised his rifle and shot in the direction of the officer who had shot and killed the boy. Then while the agents were in disarray, Kevin retreated to the Weaver cabin.
In the meantime Randy Weaver had been off in another direction and had only heard the shooting, the dog's yelp and the gunfire that followed. Randy hollered for his son and shot his shotgun into the air to attract the boy.
"Come on home Sam, Come home."
Over and over he called.

Finally he heard the boy call back "I'm comin' Dad". Those were the last words he ever heard from his son.
Later that same day, Randy, Kevin, and Vicki Weaver, Randy's wife went down to where the boy lay and carried his body back to an outbuilding near the cabin. There they removed the child's clothing and bathed his wounds and prepared the body. The next evening Weaver's oldest daughter, Sarah, sixteen, Kevin, and Randy went back to the shed to have a last look at Sam. When they did, government snipers opened fire. Randy was hit in the shoulder. The three turned and ran for the house where Vicki, with her 10 month old baby in her arms stood holding the door open. As the 3 entered the house Vicki was shot and slowly fell to her knees, her head resting on the floor like one kneeling in prayer. Randy ran up and took the baby that she clutched, and then he lifted his wife's head. Half her face was blown away.
Kevin was also hit. Huge areas of muscle in his arm were blown out, and his lung was punctured in several places. Randy and his 16 year old daughter stretched the dead mother on the floor of the cabin and covered he with a blanket where she remained for over 8 days as the siege progressed.

By this time there were officers by the score, troops, armored personnel carriers, helicopters, radios, televisions, robots, and untold armaments surrounding the little house. I will not burden you with the misery and horror the family suffered in this stand-off. I will tell you that finally Bo Gritz, Randy's former commander in the special forces, came to help in the negotiations. Gritz told Randy that if he would surrender, Gritz would guarantee him a fair trial, and before the negotiations were ended, Randy came to the belief that I would represent him. Although Gritz had contacted me before I had spoke to Randy, I had only agreed to talk to Randy. But the accuracy of what was said between Gritz and me and what was hard by Randy somehow got lost in the horror, and Randy's belief that I would represent him if he surrendered was in part, his motivation for finally submitting to arrest.

And so my friend Allan, you can now understand the pain I feel in this case. It is pain that comes from the realization that we have permitted a government to act in our name and in our behalf in a criminal fashion. It is the pain of watching the government as it now attempts to lie about its criminal complicity in this affair and to cover its crimes by charging Randy with crimes he did not commit, including murder. It is the pain of seeing an innocent woman with a child in her arms murdered and innocent children subjected to these atrocities. Indeed, as a human being I feel Randy's irrepressible pain and horror and grief. http://www.famous-trials.com/rubyridge/1143-spenceletter
 

Mr Paradise

Midas Member
Midas Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
8,252
Likes
9,050
Location
Lake Superior
#23
A lot of actors would have been willing and able to play Randy Weaver as a flawed tragic victim with some dimension, instead of an unstable whack job.
Throw a few names at me.

I don’t think it was an accident that they used the 6’5 220lb+ Quaid when I’m guessing Randy Weaver (going from photos) was probably 5’9 ish and about 160lbs dripping wet.


I probably would have went with a William Dafoe but considering the show was a MOW and not the big screen he probably would have turned it down.

3CC9C6AF-C079-4818-B783-79DFDB8C015A.jpeg
 
Last edited:

Krag

Planet earth
Platinum Bling
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
4,727
Likes
3,832
#24
Dafoe, even Bruce Dern, many actors could have played the role, even a solid virtual unknown, it isn't that hard to play aggrieved, ripped off, cheated and wronged husbands, should come natural with a real man.
 

TAEZZAR

LADY JUSTICE ISNT BLIND, SHES JUST AFRAID TO WATCH
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
15,286
Likes
26,938
Location
ORYGUN
#25
And so my friend Allan, you can now understand the pain I feel in this case. It is pain that comes from the realization that we have permitted a government to act in our name and in our behalf in a criminal fashion. It is the pain of watching the government as it now attempts to lie about its criminal complicity in this affair and to cover its crimes by charging Randy with crimes he did not commit, including murder. It is the pain of seeing an innocent woman with a child in her arms murdered and innocent children subjected to these atrocities. Indeed, as a human being I feel Randy's irrepressible pain and horror and grief.
I think he redeemed himself here.
Spence helped a person that he did not have common ground with, BUT he knew the person had been wronged by his own government.
 

Krag

Planet earth
Platinum Bling
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
4,727
Likes
3,832
#26
Or they could have found an actor whose life the IRS made miserable, maybe they would understand how bad Big Brother could get; it was actually years before actor Quaid tangled with the IRS and ran to Canada with his wife fearing for their lives: https://theweek.com/articles/490918/what-happened-randy-quaid Too bad it took those ordeals to wake him up a little.

Spence is an interesting lawyer, I read a few of his books. He doesn't believe that justice happens much in the US, but all those crazy huge money verdicts the ambulance lawyers get, crazy....In the case of Weaver, he didn't get enough IMO.
 
Last edited:

JDRock

Seeker
Seeker
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
411
Likes
571
#27
On this case, Spence got angry concerns from Jewish people and others on the left asking him not to represent Weaver. I found his obsequience to this Jewish Hirschfield disgusting, how dare this guy deny justice to a truly suffering man like Weaver?

The following excerpt comes from Gerry Spence's From Freedom to Slavery, the Rebirth of Freedom in America (1996)(pp. 13-50). It is reprinted here with the permission of the author. It includes a letter that the Wyoming defense lawyer wrote to a friend who had urged that he withdraw from the Weaver case. Spence's friend, the Jewish former CEO of Columbia Pictures, expressed concern that Spence's defense of Weaver would lend credibility to the "despicable" racist and neo-Nazi groups with which the Weaver family had been associated.
Randy Weaver's wife was dead, shot through the head while she clutched her child to her breast. His son was shot, twice. First they shot the child's arm, probably destroyed the arm. The child cried out. Then, as the child was running they shot him in the back. Randy Weaver himself had been shot and wounded and Kevin Harris, a kid the Weavers had all but adopted was dying of a chest wound. The blood hadn't cooled on Ruby Hill before the national media announced that I had taken the defense of Randy Weaver. Then all hell broke loose. My sister wrote me decrying my defense of this "racist". There were letters to the editors in several papers that expressed their disappointment that I would lend my services to a person with Weaver's beliefs. And I received a letter from my close friend Alan Hirschfield, the former chairman of chief executive officer of Columbia Pictures and Twentieth Century Fox, imploring me to withdraw.

He wrote:
"After much thought I decided to write this letter to you. It represents a very profound concern on my part regarding your decision to represent Randy Weaver. While I applaud and fully understand your motives in taking such a case, I nonetheless find this individual defense troubling. It is so because of the respectability and credibility your involvement imparts to a cause which I find despicable...."

The next morning I delivered the following letter by carrier to Mr. Hirschfield:

"I cherish your letter. It reminds me once again of our friendship, for only friends can speak and hear each other in matters so deeply a part of the soul. And your letter reminds me as well, as we must all be reminded, of the unspeakable pain every Jew has suffered from the horrors of the Holocaust. No better evidence of our friendship could be shown than your intense caring concerning what I do and what I stand for.
I met Randy Weaver in jail on the evening of his surrender. His eyes had no light in them. He was unshaven and dirty. He was naked except for yellow plastic prison coveralls, and he was cold. His small feet were clad in rubber prison sandals. In the stark setting of the prison conference room he seemed diminutive and fragile. He had spent 11 days and nights in a standoff against the government and he had lost. His wife was dead. His son was dead. His friend was near death. Weaver himself had been wounded. He had lost his freedom. He had lost it all. And now he stood face to face with a stranger who towered over him and whose words were not words of comfort. When I spoke, you, Alan, were on my mind.

"My name is Gerry Spence" I began. "I'm the lawyer you've been told about. Before we begin to talk I want you to understand that I do not share any of your political or religious beliefs. Many of my dearest friends are Jews. My daughter is married to a Jew. My sister is married to a black man. She has adopted a black child. I deplore what the Nazis stand for. If I defend you I will not defend your political beliefs or your religious beliefs, but your right as an American citizen to a fair trial." His quiet answer was, "That is all I ask." Then I motioned him to a red plastic chair and I took a similar one. And as the guards marched by and from time to time peered in, he told his story.

Alan, you are a good and fair man. That I know. Were it otherwise we would not be such friends. Yet it is your pain I hear most clearly--exacerbated, I know, by the fact that your friend should represent your enemy. Yet what drew me to this case was my own pain. Let me tell you the facts.
Randy Weaver's principal crime against the government had been his failure to appear in court on a charge of possessing illegal firearms. The first crime was not his. He had been entrapped--intentionally, systematically, patiently, purposefully entrapped--by a federal agent who solicited him to cut off, contrary to Federal law, the barrels of a couple of shotguns. Randy Weaver never owned an illegal weapon in his life. He was not engaged in the manufacture of illegal weapons. The idea of selling an illegal firearm had never entered his mind until the government agent suggested it and encouraged him to act illegally. The government knew he needed the money. He is as poor as an empty cupboard. He had three daughters, a son and a wife to support. He lived in a small house in the woods without electricity or running water. Although he is a small, frail man, with tiny, delicate hands who probably weighs no more than a hundred and twenty pounds, he made an honest living by chopping firewood and by seasonal work as a logger.

This man is wrong, his beliefs are wrong. His relationship to mankind is wrong. He was perhaps legally wrong when he failed to appear and defend himself in court. But the first wrong was not his. Nor was the first wrong the government's. The first wrong was ours.
In this country we embrace the myth that we are still a democracy when we know that we are not a democracy, that we are not free, that the government does not serve us but subjugates us. Although we give lip service to the notion of freedom, we know the government is no longer the servant of the people but, at last has become the people's master. We have stood by like timid sheep while the wolf killed, first the weak, then the strays, then those on the outer edges of the flock, until at last the entire flock belonged to the wolf. We did not care about the weak or about the strays. They were not a part of the flock. We did not care about those on the outer edges. They had chosen to be there. But as the wolf worked its way towards the center of the flock we discovered that we were now on the outer edges. Now we must look the wolf squarely in the eye. That we did not do so when the first of us was ripped and torn and eaten was the first wrong. It was our wrong.
That none of us felt responsible for having lost our freedom has been a part of an insidious progression. In the beginning the attention of the flock was directed not to the marauding wolf but to our own deviant members within the flock. We rejoiced as the wolf destroyed them for they were our enemies. We were told that the weak lay under the rocks while we faced the blizzards to rustle our food, and we did not care when the wolf took them. We argued that they deserved it. When one of our flock faced the wolf alone it was always eaten. Each of us was afraid of the wolf, but as a flock we were not afraid. Indeed the wolf cleansed the herd by destroying the weak and dismembering the aberrant element within. As time went by, strangely, the herd felt more secure under the rule of the wolf. It believed that by belonging to this wolf it would remain safe from all the other wolves. But
we were eaten just the same.

No one knows better than children of the Holocaust how the lessons of history must never be forgotten. Yet Americans, whose battle cry was once, "Give me liberty or give me death", have sat placidly by as a new king was crowned. In America a new king was crowned by the shrug of our shoulders when our neighbors were wrongfully seized. A new king was crowned when we capitulated to a regime that is no longer sensitive to people, but to non-people--to corporations, to money and to power. The new king was crowned when we turned our heads as the new king was crowned as we turned our heads as the poor and the forgotten and the damned were rendered mute and defenseless, not because they were evil but because, in the scheme of our lives, they seemed unimportant, not because they were essentially dangerous but because they were essentially powerless. The new king was crowned when we cheered the government on as it prosecuted the progeny of our ghettos and filled our prisons with black men whose first crime was that they were born in the ghettos. We cheered the new king on as it diluted our right to be secure in our homes against unlawful searches and to be secure in the courts against unlawful evidence. We cheered the new king on because we were told that our sacred rights were but "loopholes" but which our enemies: the murderers and rapists and thieves and drug dealers, escaped. We were told that those who fought for our rights, the lawyers, were worse than the thieves who stole from us in the night, that our juries were irresponsible and ignorant and ought not to be trusted. We watched with barely more than a mumble as the legal system that once protected us became populated with judges who were appointed by the new king. At last the new king was crowned when we forgot the lessons of history, that when the rights of our enemies have been wrested from them, we have lost our own rights as well, for the same rights serve both citizen and criminal.
When Randy Weaver failed to appear in court because he had lost his trust in the government we witnessed the fruit of our crime. The government indeed had no intent to protect his rights. The government had but one purpose, as it remains today, the disengagement of this citizen from society. Those who suffered and died in the Holocaust must have exquisitely understood such illicit motivations of power.
I have said that I was attracted to the case out of my own pain. Let me tell you the facts: a crack team of trained government marksmen sneaked on to Randy Weaver's small isolated acreage on a reconnaissance mission preparatory to a contemplated arrest. They wore camouflage suits and were heavily armed. They gave Randy no warning of their coming. They came without a warrant. They never identified themselves.
The Weavers owned 3 dogs, 2 small crossbred collie mutts and a yellow lab, a big pup a little over a year old whose most potent weapon was his tail with which he could beat a full grown man to death. The dog, Striker, was a close member of the Weaver family. Not only was he the companion of the children, but in winter he pulled the family sled to haul their water supply from the spring below. When the dogs discovered the intruders they raised a ruckus, and Randy his friend Kevin, and Randy's 14 year old son Sam, grabbed their guns and followed the dogs to investigate.
When the government agents were confronted with the barking dog, they did what men who have been taught to kill do. They shot Striker. The boy, barely larger than a 10 year old child, heard the dog's yelp, saw the dog fall dead. and as a 14 year old might, he returned the fire. Then the government agents shot the child in the arm. He turned and ran. the arm flopping, and when he did, the officers, still unidentified as such, shot the child in the back and killed him.

Kevin Harris witnessed the shooting of the dog. Then he saw Sam being shot as the boy turned and ran. To Kevin there was no alternative. He knew if he ran these intruders, whoever they were, would kill him as well. In defense of himself he raised his rifle and shot in the direction of the officer who had shot and killed the boy. Then while the agents were in disarray, Kevin retreated to the Weaver cabin.
In the meantime Randy Weaver had been off in another direction and had only heard the shooting, the dog's yelp and the gunfire that followed. Randy hollered for his son and shot his shotgun into the air to attract the boy.
"Come on home Sam, Come home."
Over and over he called.

Finally he heard the boy call back "I'm comin' Dad". Those were the last words he ever heard from his son.
Later that same day, Randy, Kevin, and Vicki Weaver, Randy's wife went down to where the boy lay and carried his body back to an outbuilding near the cabin. There they removed the child's clothing and bathed his wounds and prepared the body. The next evening Weaver's oldest daughter, Sarah, sixteen, Kevin, and Randy went back to the shed to have a last look at Sam. When they did, government snipers opened fire. Randy was hit in the shoulder. The three turned and ran for the house where Vicki, with her 10 month old baby in her arms stood holding the door open. As the 3 entered the house Vicki was shot and slowly fell to her knees, her head resting on the floor like one kneeling in prayer. Randy ran up and took the baby that she clutched, and then he lifted his wife's head. Half her face was blown away.
Kevin was also hit. Huge areas of muscle in his arm were blown out, and his lung was punctured in several places. Randy and his 16 year old daughter stretched the dead mother on the floor of the cabin and covered he with a blanket where she remained for over 8 days as the siege progressed.

By this time there were officers by the score, troops, armored personnel carriers, helicopters, radios, televisions, robots, and untold armaments surrounding the little house. I will not burden you with the misery and horror the family suffered in this stand-off. I will tell you that finally Bo Gritz, Randy's former commander in the special forces, came to help in the negotiations. Gritz told Randy that if he would surrender, Gritz would guarantee him a fair trial, and before the negotiations were ended, Randy came to the belief that I would represent him. Although Gritz had contacted me before I had spoke to Randy, I had only agreed to talk to Randy. But the accuracy of what was said between Gritz and me and what was hard by Randy somehow got lost in the horror, and Randy's belief that I would represent him if he surrendered was in part, his motivation for finally submitting to arrest.

And so my friend Allan, you can now understand the pain I feel in this case. It is pain that comes from the realization that we have permitted a government to act in our name and in our behalf in a criminal fashion. It is the pain of watching the government as it now attempts to lie about its criminal complicity in this affair and to cover its crimes by charging Randy with crimes he did not commit, including murder. It is the pain of seeing an innocent woman with a child in her arms murdered and innocent children subjected to these atrocities. Indeed, as a human being I feel Randy's irrepressible pain and horror and grief. http://www.famous-trials.com/rubyridge/1143-spenceletter
I knew then both. Rabbi hirs hfield is taking a dirt nap .
 

Son of Gloin

Certainty of death? What are we waiting for?
Gold Chaser
Midas Supporter
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
6,011
Likes
12,697
Location
USA
#28
On this case, Spence got angry concerns from Jewish people and others on the left asking him not to represent Weaver. I found his obsequience to this Jewish Hirschfield disgusting, how dare this guy deny justice to a truly suffering man like Weaver?

The following excerpt comes from Gerry Spence's From Freedom to Slavery, the Rebirth of Freedom in America (1996)(pp. 13-50). It is reprinted here with the permission of the author. It includes a letter that the Wyoming defense lawyer wrote to a friend who had urged that he withdraw from the Weaver case. Spence's friend, the Jewish former CEO of Columbia Pictures, expressed concern that Spence's defense of Weaver would lend credibility to the "despicable" racist and neo-Nazi groups with which the Weaver family had been associated.
Randy Weaver's wife was dead, shot through the head while she clutched her child to her breast. His son was shot, twice. First they shot the child's arm, probably destroyed the arm. The child cried out. Then, as the child was running they shot him in the back. Randy Weaver himself had been shot and wounded and Kevin Harris, a kid the Weavers had all but adopted was dying of a chest wound. The blood hadn't cooled on Ruby Hill before the national media announced that I had taken the defense of Randy Weaver. Then all hell broke loose. My sister wrote me decrying my defense of this "racist". There were letters to the editors in several papers that expressed their disappointment that I would lend my services to a person with Weaver's beliefs. And I received a letter from my close friend Alan Hirschfield, the former chairman of chief executive officer of Columbia Pictures and Twentieth Century Fox, imploring me to withdraw.

He wrote:
"After much thought I decided to write this letter to you. It represents a very profound concern on my part regarding your decision to represent Randy Weaver. While I applaud and fully understand your motives in taking such a case, I nonetheless find this individual defense troubling. It is so because of the respectability and credibility your involvement imparts to a cause which I find despicable...."

The next morning I delivered the following letter by carrier to Mr. Hirschfield:

"I cherish your letter. It reminds me once again of our friendship, for only friends can speak and hear each other in matters so deeply a part of the soul. And your letter reminds me as well, as we must all be reminded, of the unspeakable pain every Jew has suffered from the horrors of the Holocaust. No better evidence of our friendship could be shown than your intense caring concerning what I do and what I stand for.
I met Randy Weaver in jail on the evening of his surrender. His eyes had no light in them. He was unshaven and dirty. He was naked except for yellow plastic prison coveralls, and he was cold. His small feet were clad in rubber prison sandals. In the stark setting of the prison conference room he seemed diminutive and fragile. He had spent 11 days and nights in a standoff against the government and he had lost. His wife was dead. His son was dead. His friend was near death. Weaver himself had been wounded. He had lost his freedom. He had lost it all. And now he stood face to face with a stranger who towered over him and whose words were not words of comfort. When I spoke, you, Alan, were on my mind.

"My name is Gerry Spence" I began. "I'm the lawyer you've been told about. Before we begin to talk I want you to understand that I do not share any of your political or religious beliefs. Many of my dearest friends are Jews. My daughter is married to a Jew. My sister is married to a black man. She has adopted a black child. I deplore what the Nazis stand for. If I defend you I will not defend your political beliefs or your religious beliefs, but your right as an American citizen to a fair trial." His quiet answer was, "That is all I ask." Then I motioned him to a red plastic chair and I took a similar one. And as the guards marched by and from time to time peered in, he told his story.

Alan, you are a good and fair man. That I know. Were it otherwise we would not be such friends. Yet it is your pain I hear most clearly--exacerbated, I know, by the fact that your friend should represent your enemy. Yet what drew me to this case was my own pain. Let me tell you the facts.
Randy Weaver's principal crime against the government had been his failure to appear in court on a charge of possessing illegal firearms. The first crime was not his. He had been entrapped--intentionally, systematically, patiently, purposefully entrapped--by a federal agent who solicited him to cut off, contrary to Federal law, the barrels of a couple of shotguns. Randy Weaver never owned an illegal weapon in his life. He was not engaged in the manufacture of illegal weapons. The idea of selling an illegal firearm had never entered his mind until the government agent suggested it and encouraged him to act illegally. The government knew he needed the money. He is as poor as an empty cupboard. He had three daughters, a son and a wife to support. He lived in a small house in the woods without electricity or running water. Although he is a small, frail man, with tiny, delicate hands who probably weighs no more than a hundred and twenty pounds, he made an honest living by chopping firewood and by seasonal work as a logger.

This man is wrong, his beliefs are wrong. His relationship to mankind is wrong. He was perhaps legally wrong when he failed to appear and defend himself in court. But the first wrong was not his. Nor was the first wrong the government's. The first wrong was ours.
In this country we embrace the myth that we are still a democracy when we know that we are not a democracy, that we are not free, that the government does not serve us but subjugates us. Although we give lip service to the notion of freedom, we know the government is no longer the servant of the people but, at last has become the people's master. We have stood by like timid sheep while the wolf killed, first the weak, then the strays, then those on the outer edges of the flock, until at last the entire flock belonged to the wolf. We did not care about the weak or about the strays. They were not a part of the flock. We did not care about those on the outer edges. They had chosen to be there. But as the wolf worked its way towards the center of the flock we discovered that we were now on the outer edges. Now we must look the wolf squarely in the eye. That we did not do so when the first of us was ripped and torn and eaten was the first wrong. It was our wrong.
That none of us felt responsible for having lost our freedom has been a part of an insidious progression. In the beginning the attention of the flock was directed not to the marauding wolf but to our own deviant members within the flock. We rejoiced as the wolf destroyed them for they were our enemies. We were told that the weak lay under the rocks while we faced the blizzards to rustle our food, and we did not care when the wolf took them. We argued that they deserved it. When one of our flock faced the wolf alone it was always eaten. Each of us was afraid of the wolf, but as a flock we were not afraid. Indeed the wolf cleansed the herd by destroying the weak and dismembering the aberrant element within. As time went by, strangely, the herd felt more secure under the rule of the wolf. It believed that by belonging to this wolf it would remain safe from all the other wolves. But
we were eaten just the same.

No one knows better than children of the Holocaust how the lessons of history must never be forgotten. Yet Americans, whose battle cry was once, "Give me liberty or give me death", have sat placidly by as a new king was crowned. In America a new king was crowned by the shrug of our shoulders when our neighbors were wrongfully seized. A new king was crowned when we capitulated to a regime that is no longer sensitive to people, but to non-people--to corporations, to money and to power. The new king was crowned when we turned our heads as the new king was crowned as we turned our heads as the poor and the forgotten and the damned were rendered mute and defenseless, not because they were evil but because, in the scheme of our lives, they seemed unimportant, not because they were essentially dangerous but because they were essentially powerless. The new king was crowned when we cheered the government on as it prosecuted the progeny of our ghettos and filled our prisons with black men whose first crime was that they were born in the ghettos. We cheered the new king on as it diluted our right to be secure in our homes against unlawful searches and to be secure in the courts against unlawful evidence. We cheered the new king on because we were told that our sacred rights were but "loopholes" but which our enemies: the murderers and rapists and thieves and drug dealers, escaped. We were told that those who fought for our rights, the lawyers, were worse than the thieves who stole from us in the night, that our juries were irresponsible and ignorant and ought not to be trusted. We watched with barely more than a mumble as the legal system that once protected us became populated with judges who were appointed by the new king. At last the new king was crowned when we forgot the lessons of history, that when the rights of our enemies have been wrested from them, we have lost our own rights as well, for the same rights serve both citizen and criminal.
When Randy Weaver failed to appear in court because he had lost his trust in the government we witnessed the fruit of our crime. The government indeed had no intent to protect his rights. The government had but one purpose, as it remains today, the disengagement of this citizen from society. Those who suffered and died in the Holocaust must have exquisitely understood such illicit motivations of power.
I have said that I was attracted to the case out of my own pain. Let me tell you the facts: a crack team of trained government marksmen sneaked on to Randy Weaver's small isolated acreage on a reconnaissance mission preparatory to a contemplated arrest. They wore camouflage suits and were heavily armed. They gave Randy no warning of their coming. They came without a warrant. They never identified themselves.
The Weavers owned 3 dogs, 2 small crossbred collie mutts and a yellow lab, a big pup a little over a year old whose most potent weapon was his tail with which he could beat a full grown man to death. The dog, Striker, was a close member of the Weaver family. Not only was he the companion of the children, but in winter he pulled the family sled to haul their water supply from the spring below. When the dogs discovered the intruders they raised a ruckus, and Randy his friend Kevin, and Randy's 14 year old son Sam, grabbed their guns and followed the dogs to investigate.
When the government agents were confronted with the barking dog, they did what men who have been taught to kill do. They shot Striker. The boy, barely larger than a 10 year old child, heard the dog's yelp, saw the dog fall dead. and as a 14 year old might, he returned the fire. Then the government agents shot the child in the arm. He turned and ran. the arm flopping, and when he did, the officers, still unidentified as such, shot the child in the back and killed him.

Kevin Harris witnessed the shooting of the dog. Then he saw Sam being shot as the boy turned and ran. To Kevin there was no alternative. He knew if he ran these intruders, whoever they were, would kill him as well. In defense of himself he raised his rifle and shot in the direction of the officer who had shot and killed the boy. Then while the agents were in disarray, Kevin retreated to the Weaver cabin.
In the meantime Randy Weaver had been off in another direction and had only heard the shooting, the dog's yelp and the gunfire that followed. Randy hollered for his son and shot his shotgun into the air to attract the boy.
"Come on home Sam, Come home."
Over and over he called.

Finally he heard the boy call back "I'm comin' Dad". Those were the last words he ever heard from his son.
Later that same day, Randy, Kevin, and Vicki Weaver, Randy's wife went down to where the boy lay and carried his body back to an outbuilding near the cabin. There they removed the child's clothing and bathed his wounds and prepared the body. The next evening Weaver's oldest daughter, Sarah, sixteen, Kevin, and Randy went back to the shed to have a last look at Sam. When they did, government snipers opened fire. Randy was hit in the shoulder. The three turned and ran for the house where Vicki, with her 10 month old baby in her arms stood holding the door open. As the 3 entered the house Vicki was shot and slowly fell to her knees, her head resting on the floor like one kneeling in prayer. Randy ran up and took the baby that she clutched, and then he lifted his wife's head. Half her face was blown away.
Kevin was also hit. Huge areas of muscle in his arm were blown out, and his lung was punctured in several places. Randy and his 16 year old daughter stretched the dead mother on the floor of the cabin and covered he with a blanket where she remained for over 8 days as the siege progressed.

By this time there were officers by the score, troops, armored personnel carriers, helicopters, radios, televisions, robots, and untold armaments surrounding the little house. I will not burden you with the misery and horror the family suffered in this stand-off. I will tell you that finally Bo Gritz, Randy's former commander in the special forces, came to help in the negotiations. Gritz told Randy that if he would surrender, Gritz would guarantee him a fair trial, and before the negotiations were ended, Randy came to the belief that I would represent him. Although Gritz had contacted me before I had spoke to Randy, I had only agreed to talk to Randy. But the accuracy of what was said between Gritz and me and what was hard by Randy somehow got lost in the horror, and Randy's belief that I would represent him if he surrendered was in part, his motivation for finally submitting to arrest.

And so my friend Allan, you can now understand the pain I feel in this case. It is pain that comes from the realization that we have permitted a government to act in our name and in our behalf in a criminal fashion. It is the pain of watching the government as it now attempts to lie about its criminal complicity in this affair and to cover its crimes by charging Randy with crimes he did not commit, including murder. It is the pain of seeing an innocent woman with a child in her arms murdered and innocent children subjected to these atrocities. Indeed, as a human being I feel Randy's irrepressible pain and horror and grief. http://www.famous-trials.com/rubyridge/1143-spenceletter
Those are some of the most amazing, heartfelt words I’ve ever read. Spence must be one helluva man.
 

Krag

Planet earth
Platinum Bling
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
4,727
Likes
3,832
#29
According to Gary North, these episodes over the last generation are hardly remembered by most of the population.
 

Son of Gloin

Certainty of death? What are we waiting for?
Gold Chaser
Midas Supporter
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
6,011
Likes
12,697
Location
USA
#30
According to Gary North, these episodes over the last generation are hardly remembered by most of the population.
Gary’s probably right. But, these things should be burned into people’s memories.