• "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding high finance, politics, constructionist Constitution, and mental masturbation of all types"

they're still comin'

mtnman

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
4,150
Likes
7,191
Location
East Tennessee
Well, I hope my bad spelling of Russian names hasn't offended you. I also understand you didn't really mean illegal immigrants were sent by "Khrushchev". I still believe it is nonsensical to propose they can be considered equivalent to "enemy soldiers", which was my original point.


Pathetic ad-hominem, Unca. Try to do better.



I suppose I can't ask either of you cowards to produce actual arguments rather than simple and lame attempts to personally attack me. That's your own shortcoming to deal with.


Sure, next time we sit down for a drink I'll be happy to share some of that personal info with you.
Meanwhile, I post as much as is relevant to my arguments and the topic at hand, while remaining aware of the fact that some cowards will always use whatever personal info you provide to personally attack you any time they run out of actual arguments.
Ya ain't done shit, ya ain't seen shit. Otherwise you'd be a realist instead of a self proclaimed liberal.
 

Uglytruth

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Messages
6,025
Likes
8,700
Let’s be clear. The idea of a nation without borders, or a “world without borders” is the idea that your home, your property, also has no borders and what you have belongs to anyone and everyone. Go ahead and work your whole life and it will be taken from you and given to anyone we choose who did not earn it. You are all equal slaves.
SOG glad you understood my point.
libs might as well pass a law that it's illegl to own locks, doors and nothing is yours it all belongs to the community. We've all seen how well public housing has worked out!
 

Joseph

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
4,072
Likes
7,066
Location
south east

Son of Gloin

Certainty of death? What are we waiting for?
Gold Chaser
Midas Supporter
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
5,593
Likes
11,531
Location
USA
SOG glad you understood my point.
libs might as well pass a law that it's illegl to own locks, doors and nothing is yours it all belongs to the community. We've all seen how well public housing has worked out!
Right. I was just compelled to expand on your point, UT. That is the end game of all this borderless society bull crap. No property.
 

Libertaurum

Freedom First
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
4,230
Likes
3,087
Attacking you? Seriously ? You call us 'cowards' and cry about personal attacks on you ? Priceless.
As for actual arguments, my 'actual argument ' is contained in the video. A video that is an 'actual' accounting of what is going on with the caravan , which you refuse to address, and will further ignore because it destroys your position . Now you can cry victim again
I called you a coward only after you accused me of having some agenda and being a paid shill rather than address my argument, which is that there is no rational way illegal immigrants can be considered "enemy soldiers".
Now you accuse me of "playing the victim" while you do just that; play the victim. Classic Marxist tactic.

Ya ain't done shit, ya ain't seen shit. Otherwise you'd be a realist instead of a self proclaimed liberal.
Whatever you say, "mountain man". Your opinion of me is irrelevant to the subject and unimportant to me.
And, since you mention it, I think you are a liberal as well.
 

Hystckndle

CONFORMADAPTKICKSOMEASS!!!
Site Mgr
Midas Supporter
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
7,051
Likes
8,069
Location
Central Florida
Well, I hope my bad spelling of Russian names hasn't offended you. I also understand you didn't really mean illegal immigrants were sent by "Khrushchev". I still believe it is nonsensical to propose they can be considered equivalent to "enemy soldiers", which was my original point.


Pathetic ad-hominem, Unca. Try to do better.



I suppose I can't ask either of you cowards to produce actual arguments rather than simple and lame attempts to personally attack me. That's your own shortcoming to deal with.


Sure, next time we sit down for a drink I'll be happy to share some of that personal info with you.
Meanwhile, I post as much as is relevant to my arguments and the topic at hand, while remaining aware of the fact that some cowards will always use whatever personal info you provide to personally attack you any time they run out of actual arguments.
10 4,
Thanks for the comments and your thoughts about it all.
But lookit, did not suggest a home address.
Or any personal information.
Background. I was thinking that was a bit dif.
But so be it. All good.
Also, curious really...expecting personal attacks
and continuing to post here.
Interesting usage of the word coward also.
Thanks,
Regards,
 

Hystckndle

CONFORMADAPTKICKSOMEASS!!!
Site Mgr
Midas Supporter
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
7,051
Likes
8,069
Location
Central Florida
The crucial difference is that enemy soldiers are ARMED and come with the intent to KILL and DESTROY. They're not looking for jobs.
And the only reason US soldiers faced civilians who were hostile to them was that the US army was invading their country.
Negative.
 

Hystckndle

CONFORMADAPTKICKSOMEASS!!!
Site Mgr
Midas Supporter
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
7,051
Likes
8,069
Location
Central Florida
Somehow, I get the very strong impression that an open border policy in the United States will or does not cost L anything. It’s easy to tell other people to give up their sovereignty when you are not subject to the negative effects of it, like those “do gooders” in the gated communities. And that reality is the truth behind all leftist ideology. No guns for you, while we have armed security, pay more in taxes, while we have tax lawyers protecting our wealth, use less fuel to heat your home and drive a smaller car, while we fly wherever we want to in our personal jet and maintain a fleet of cars and several large homes. Do as I say and not as I do; I am more important than you.
After reading for some time,
I do not think he lives here in the states.
Nor do I think he is a United States citizen.
JMHO
Perhaps I have missed some information posted somewhere.
Regards to all.
 

Uglytruth

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Messages
6,025
Likes
8,700
Don't speak the language.
Don't have any skills. Might work cheap but those already on welfare should be cut back and made to produce as a part of society.
Being used as pawns by the elite. Those trucks, tents, food ain't being paid for by volunteers. They are used to advance an agenda.
 

Bigfoot

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Messages
3,019
Likes
3,195
Think about the utter assault on the Bill of Rights in the last 3 decades. Do we really want to be demanding that a militarized wall be build around us? Do we really want to be demanding that people be secretly whisked away and put into camps? Please tell me I'm not the only one who sees what's wrong with that picture.

Let's step back from the TV for a moment, and consider that there are thousands of Americans living in Mexico and Honduras. Are the local people in Mexico and Honduras typically dragging them into the street and beheading them? No.

Are American builders and farmers often offering jobs to people from Mexico and Honduras? Yes.

Remember the "War on Poverty", "The War on Drugs", and The War on Terror". Thinks about it. If Fox News helped to make Americans believe Iraq had WMDs, do you really believe they're telling you the truth about a needing a wall? Do you really trust the defense contractors that are spying on you to take your money to build such a wall? Think carefully fellas...
 
Last edited:

Son of Gloin

Certainty of death? What are we waiting for?
Gold Chaser
Midas Supporter
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
5,593
Likes
11,531
Location
USA
Think about the utter assault on the Bill of Rights in the last 3 decades. Do we really want to be demanding that a militarized wall be build around us? Do we really want to be demanding that people be secretly whisked away and put into camps? Please tell me I'm not the only one who sees what's wrong with that picture.

Let's step back from the TV for a moment, and consider that there are thousands of Americans living in Mexico and Honduras. Are the local people in Mexico and Honduras typically dragging them into the street and beheading them? No.

Are American builders and farmers often offering jobs to people from Mexico and Honduras? Yes.

Remember the "War on Poverty", "The War on Drugs", and The War on Terror". Thinks about it. If Fox News helped to make Americans believe Iraq had WMDs, do you really believe they're telling you the truth about a needing a wall? Do you really trust the defense contractors that are spying on you to take your money to build such a wall? Think carefully fellas...
Good questions BF. I still believe we need to get control of unlimited immigration in this country, though. Especially considering we have an unlimited social welfare program, eating up our financial resources. It would be better if we went after the welfare, EBT, free housing programs instead, allowing whoever wants in to come in and work for their living. That isn’t happening, though. So, build the freaking wall.
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
243
Likes
299
Location
SC swamps
Stumbled across this yesterday. Granted its USA Today, but the footage of some of the landscape would be interesting for a wall.

Dunno about this talk of the military building the wall....these are soldiers, not tradesmen. If there is a wall to be built, it would have to be built by a professional with heavy equipment....that has a license and a permit :p

 

Joseph

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
4,072
Likes
7,066
Location
south east
I called you a coward only after you accused me of having some agenda and being a paid shill rather than address my argument, which is that there is no rational way illegal immigrants can be considered "enemy soldiers".
Now you accuse me of "playing the victim" while you do just that; play the victim. Classic Marxist tactic.
I asked you. I could not figure out, how anyone could hold the position that you do. Not logically, Now I ask you to cut the crap. stop your word-smithing and double talk. watch the video and offer up your opinion as to its relevance .
I am here to tell you that your assertion that these immigrants are not enemy soldiers quite simply defies logic. I truly want to hear what you have to say wrt the video. I defend my position with the video that actually proves what many of us already know. Watch it. that's it. Then get back to us, or me. Or not, which I suspect is what you'll choose to do

I reposted my previous comments so you don't have to look for them again.

Maybe this video by Ami Horowitz will shed some much needed light on your delusional position ... I honestly doubt it, but who knows ... even a blind squirrel gets an acorn now and then.

Pay particular attention to conversations with the "organizers", "World without Borders", their opinion of the United States, who is actually FUNDING the invasion, and their goal to destroy our sovereignty.
 

Son of Gloin

Certainty of death? What are we waiting for?
Gold Chaser
Midas Supporter
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
5,593
Likes
11,531
Location
USA

TAEZZAR

LADY JUSTICE ISNT BLIND, SHES JUST AFRAID TO WATCH
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
14,517
Likes
25,101
Location
ORYGUN
that has a license and a permit
License and a permits are "only tax based permission" from big brother. They do not guarantee a quality job, in fact they offer the probability of payoffs !
 

Libertaurum

Freedom First
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
4,230
Likes
3,087
I asked you. I could not figure out, how anyone could hold the position that you do. Not logically, Now I ask you to cut the crap. stop your word-smithing and double talk. watch the video and offer up your opinion as to its relevance .
I am here to tell you that your assertion that these immigrants are not enemy soldiers quite simply defies logic. I truly want to hear what you have to say wrt the video. I defend my position with the video that actually proves what many of us already know. Watch it. that's it. Then get back to us, or me. Or not, which I suspect is what you'll choose to do

I reposted my previous comments so you don't have to look for them again.
I watched the video. It proves most of those people are looking for jobs and a better life, not that they are "enemy soldiers".
Sure, when they're asked whether they think the US should let everyone in, they say "yes". But it doesn't show a group of hostile, armed men getting ready to attack the US, which is what I'd consider enemy soldiers. Those people, "undesirable" as they might seem to many, are not enemy soldiers and insisting they are is what defies logic.
 

Joseph

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
4,072
Likes
7,066
Location
south east
I watched the video. It proves most of those people are looking for jobs and a better life, not that they are "enemy soldiers".
Oh, ok ... , when asked, most of the people ( I think they interviewed three or four, but close enough for national security) said they were just looking for jobs .... got it . It's ok guys. They just want jobs. Mr. President. We're good to go. They just want jobs ... Open the gates.


Nationalism.JPG
 
Last edited:

Libertaurum

Freedom First
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
4,230
Likes
3,087
Oh, ok ... , when asked, most of the people ( I think they interviewed three or four, but close enough for national security) said they were just looking for jobs .... got it . It's ok guys. They just want jobs. Mr. President. We're good to go. They just want jobs ... Open the gates.
Total strawman. Recognizing they're not enemy soldiers is not the same as saying "open the gates", is it?
You said the video proved they were enemy soldiers. it does not.
 

mtnman

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
4,150
Likes
7,191
Location
East Tennessee
I watched the video. It proves most of those people are looking for jobs and a better life, not that they are "enemy soldiers".
Sure, when they're asked whether they think the US should let everyone in, they say "yes". But it doesn't show a group of hostile, armed men getting ready to attack the US, which is what I'd consider enemy soldiers. Those people, "undesirable" as they might seem to many, are not enemy soldiers and insisting they are is what defies logic.
There are many ways to fight. "hostile, armed men getting ready to attack the US" is just one of many...
 

Libertaurum

Freedom First
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
4,230
Likes
3,087
There are many ways to fight. "hostile, armed men getting ready to attack the US" is just one of many...
Riiight. So, by the same logic, could some government consider some keyboard commandos to be "hostile" to the State, as well, and therefore equivalent to "enemy soldiers"?
Or does it only apply when you like it and it seems convenient?
 

mtnman

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
4,150
Likes
7,191
Location
East Tennessee
Total strawman. Recognizing they're not enemy soldiers is not the same as saying "open the gates", is it?
You said the video proved they were enemy soldiers. it does not.
If illegals take any job from a citizen then that's stealing the treasure of the US, what an enemy does....
 

Libertaurum

Freedom First
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
4,230
Likes
3,087
If illegals take any job from a citizen then that's stealing the treasure of the US, what an enemy does....
Wrong.
That's collectivism at work in your mind.
That job is not the property of the State. It's not the property of the Treasury. It's not even the property of the people, the collective or the proletariat.
That "job" is a private contract. It exists only if a willing employer and a willing employee come to an agreement, free from coercion from anyone, including you, or any majority.
That employer has the natural and inalienable right to hire anyone he chooses. He is not obligated to hire only those you, I or even some majority might approve.
Private property, free markets, liberty and individual rights. Not collective property of jobs, factories or the media. That is what freedom means.
 

mtnman

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
4,150
Likes
7,191
Location
East Tennessee
Wrong.
That's collectivism at work in your mind.
That job is not the property of the State. It's not the property of the Treasury. It's not even the property of the people, the collective or the proletariat.
That "job" is a private contract. It exists only if a willing employer and a willing employee come to an agreement, free from coercion from anyone, including you, or any majority.
That employer has the natural and inalienable right to hire anyone he chooses. He is not obligated to hire only those you, I or even some majority might approve.
Private property, free markets, liberty and individual rights. Not collective property of jobs, factories or the media. That is what freedom means.
clueless, you are and I'm done with ya.
 

mtnman

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
4,150
Likes
7,191
Location
East Tennessee
1546923513842.png
 

Bigfoot

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Messages
3,019
Likes
3,195
It would be better if we went after the welfare, EBT, free housing programs instead, allowing whoever wants in to come in and work for their living.
I really appreciate this comment, because you are agreeing that ultimately, we want a society in which individuals can freely change countries.

That isn’t happening, though. So, build the freaking wall.
The first problem I have with that is as follows. It's a moral problem. To illustrate what I mean, let's apply that same school of thought to another issue. A lot of people are killed in gang shootings. Thus, we could ban and confiscate all firearms. At a later date, after all the gang members were arrested, we could make firearms legal again.

The second problem I see is a practical one. There are many Americans in the agriculture, construction, and food service industries who want to hire these immigrants. There is in fact a real demand for the work the immigrants are offering. If you build a wall, but still have demand for the immigrants, then solutions to that barrier will be found, such as tunnels, midnight boat rides, etc.
 

Bigfoot

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Messages
3,019
Likes
3,195
License and a permits are "only tax based permission" from big brother. They do not guarantee a quality job, in fact they offer the probability of payoffs !
For sure. What's more, every time something fails or doesn't work, it's another opportunity to charge more money. So we pay them billions to build a wall, and then tunnels appear under the wall. Now we have to pay billions more for the tunnel finding sonars and their operators. Then immigrants start coming by boat. So now we have to pay billions more for more coast guard vessels. This whole immigrant scare is big money for the military industrial complex. All the while, the coyotes will figure out how to beat the system for one/one millionth of the cost.

Problem, reaction, solution. Problem, reaction, solution. Problem, reaction, solution...

Any speculators here put together a stock list of the companies involved in this wall yet?
 
Last edited:

Libertaurum

Freedom First
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
4,230
Likes
3,087
Memes... Because you have nothing to say but still want to say something.
I suppose you've given up on the notion that illegal immigrants are equivalent to enemy soldiers and are now moving on to a new theory, namely that US taxpayers are not responsible for making other people's dreams come true and that immigrants should live through slavery, revolution and civil war (even if they might already have) before their natural rights are recognized.
The first part is 100% correct. Government should not steal people's money to support immigrants or give them freebies. But that's something government does, not immigrants.
On the second part, I would ask you, who is endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights? Only people who have lived through revolutions and civil wars?
 

Son of Gloin

Certainty of death? What are we waiting for?
Gold Chaser
Midas Supporter
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
5,593
Likes
11,531
Location
USA
I really appreciate this comment, because you are agreeing that ultimately, we want a society in which individuals can freely change countries....
Oh my goodness, BF! No, I don’t think we should have a society where people should be able to freely change countries. Everybody would surely want to freely come here and suck up all our free, government provided resources, that were stolen from the people. It should be difficult to change your national address, requiring a seriously administered process, where you are selected for admission only after you’ve been vetted for disease, intelligence, desire and ability to assimilate and willingness to prove that you will develop an affection for our laws (The Constitution) and abide by them. It should take time and effort and you should get minimal
government assistance.
 

Libertaurum

Freedom First
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
4,230
Likes
3,087
Oh my goodness, BF! No, I don’t think we should have a society where people should be able to freely change countries. Everybody would surely want to freely come here and suck up all our free, government provided resources, that were stolen from the people. It should be difficult to change your national address, requiring a seriously administered process, where you are selected for admission only after you’ve been vetted for disease, intelligence, desire and ability to assimilate and willingness to prove that you will develop an affection for our laws (The Constitution) and abide by them. It should take time and effort and you should get minimal
government assistance.
Of course Bigfoot, who wants freedom? You want people tied to the land, administered, managed and fully controlled by government. Checking them for disease, vaccinating them and shipping them to the appropriate farm.
:/sarc:

Really, SoG, you try so hard to exclude anyone that you'd end up excluding yourself.

Are you willing to prove you love every law?
Can YOU demonstrate the "willingness to prove" that you have developed "an affection" for all US laws? Tell me how much you love the income tax. Or bump stock bans, or any of the thousands of laws in the books?
 

Libertaurum

Freedom First
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
4,230
Likes
3,087
Good questions BF. I still believe we need to get control of unlimited immigration in this country, though. Especially considering we have an unlimited social welfare program, eating up our financial resources. It would be better if we went after the welfare, EBT, free housing programs instead, allowing whoever wants in to come in and work for their living. That isn’t happening, though. So, build the freaking wall.
Oh my goodness, BF! No, I don’t think we should have a society where people should be able to freely change countries. Everybody would surely want to freely come here and suck up all our free, government provided resources, that were stolen from the people. It should be difficult to change your national address, requiring a seriously administered process, where you are selected for admission only after you’ve been vetted for disease, intelligence, desire and ability to assimilate and willingness to prove that you will develop an affection for our laws (The Constitution) and abide by them. It should take time and effort and you should get minimal
government assistance.
(my bold)
So how do you pretend to square those two different and obviously contradictory positions?
 

Bigfoot

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Messages
3,019
Likes
3,195
You want people tied to the land, administered, managed and fully controlled by government. Checking them for disease, vaccinating them and shipping them to the appropriate farm.
Precisely, Sir! If people cannot freely change the country they live in, then they are slaves. Countries shouldn't own people, individuals should own themselves!

Everybody would surely want to freely come here
I don't believe that's true. Some people want to come, some want to leave, some want to come for a while, and then leave. This includes people who were born in the US, some of them also want to leave. That's freedom. Prior to the 1930s, people did exactly that.

It should be difficult to change your national address
Why?

requiring a seriously administered process
That's bureaucracy. Bureaucracy is not good for freedom. Bureaucracy is not good for the economy. Bureaucracy is not good.

In some situations, that might be valid, but it needs oversight to protect individual rights. The government could use a disease to as an excuse to arrest people, to lobotomize, or even kill them. They are already trying to force dangerous vaccines on babies and school children in some states.

The government has no business trying to regulate the lives of people based on how intelligent some elitist declares someone else to be.

prove that will develop an affection for our laws
There are so many laws that the lawyers can't even tell you what the laws are. Most people know that murder, assault,
and theft are wrong. That's the key stuff right there.

Immigrants and locals both should learn the Constitution. I agree on this one.

It should take time and effort and you should get minimal
government assistance.
It should take minimal time and effort and minimal government assistance!
 
Last edited:

edsl48

Silver Member
Silver Miner
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
2,165
Likes
3,761
U.S. Activists Helped Migrants in Mexico During Border Clash

Julia Love and Mohammed Salem, Reuters, January 3, 2019

A group of U.S. activists opposed to President Donald Trump’s immigration policies helped migrants in Mexico during a clash with U.S. agents at the border on New Year’s Eve, and dispute their government’s account of the events.
Late on Monday, about 150 migrants gathered at the border in Tijuana to try to enter the United States, according to the U.S. activists and a Reuters witness.
After learning of a possible conflict, 11 U.S. volunteers who were in Tijuana headed to the border to provide medical assistance and document the events, said Lilith Sinclair, a spokeswoman for the group.
The activists, some of whom are part of a group known as the Border Support Network, have said they were banding together to counter what they view as the U.S. government’s violation of asylum seekers’ rights.
They have also challenged the U.S. government’s position that agents deployed tear gas after coming under attack.
“This attack on migrants peacefully seeking asylum was crippling, inhumane and unprovoked,” Sinclair said in a statement on Wednesday.
The clash in Tijuana was the second incident in less than two months in which dozens of migrants tried to cross the border and were met with gas.
The activists were not present for the entire confrontation, but did not witness any provocation by migrants in the time they were there, Sinclair, a 24-year-old from Portland, Oregon, said in an interview.

The U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agency {snip} previously said agents launched smoke, pepper spray and tear gas known as CS gas only after migrants threw rocks.
“This is among the lowest levels of response we can give,” said Joshua Wilson, vice president of the San Diego Border Patrol Union. “A rock is deadly force.”
A Reuters witness did not see migrants throwing rocks. The Associated Press reported that rocks were flung after tear gas was deployed.

ANTI-FASCISTS
Formed in November in response to the migrant caravans that drew Trump’s ire, the activist coalition includes self-described anti-fascists and advocates for causes such as indigenous rights and water access, Sinclair said. Some members met through protests over the Dakota Access Pipeline and a police shooting in Ferguson, Missouri.

The Border Support Network is funded largely by individual donations, Sinclair said.

An independent volunteer, Nathaniel Dennison, a 34-year-old documentary filmmaker based in Virginia, said the mood at the border was “hopeful and peaceful until border patrol acted on asylum seekers, unprovoked.”
Dennison said he was struck by three “plastic pellets.” The CBP says it does not deploy rubber bullets but does use pepper balls, a round rubber projectile containing pepper spray.