• Same story, different day...........year ie more of the same fiat floods the world
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Usury is the ultimate sin.

Usury

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#2
Nope
 

Bigjon

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#4
I think he makes a compelling case against usury.
 

Mujahideen

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#5
I can see how interest rates can be abused. The question I have is... how does one expect to raise capital without getting a loan and does one expect this loan to be free?
 

tom baxter

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#10
I can see how interest rates can be abused. The question I have is... how does one expect to raise capital without getting a loan and does one expect this loan to be free?
That's the reality. No body like the idea of compound interest loans but they all like the laptops they use, the flash cars they drive and the nice homes they live in, none of which would be possible without it. Without it we are living in the middle east in mud huts.
 

Bigjon

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#11
That's the reality. No body like the idea of compound interest loans but they all like the laptops they use, the flash cars they drive and the nice homes they live in, none of which would be possible without it. Without it we are living in the middle east in mud huts.
This is BS.
 

D-FENZ

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#13
If 2 parties agree to a contract for whatever it may be and for whatever price, it's nobody else's business.

If a contract between willing participants can be forbidden by an unaffected third party buttinsky then everyone has a problem.

It's pretty simple really. If you don't like loans then don't participate.
 
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#14
If 2 parties agree to a contract for whatever it may be and for whatever price, it's nobody else's business.

If a contract between willing participants can be forbidden by an unaffected third party buttinsky then everyone has a problem.

It's pretty simple really. If you don't like loans then don't participate.
The third party buttinsky that inserts themselves is the IRS. Interest rates are required. If the interest rate of the loan contract is less than the “current market interest rate” as published in the Applicable Federal Rate (AFR), the IRS requires the lender to report as income the difference.
 
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#15
I can see how interest rates can be abused. The question I have is... how does one expect to raise capital without getting a loan and does one expect this loan to be free?
[ Certainly not free. Absent IRS requirements, a lenders interest could be any asset as collateral (interest). (wish this could be lined out - see changed sentence below) ]

Certainly not free. Absent IRS requirements, a lenders interest could be any asset, and if unpaid some other agreed upon asset as collateral.

Edit – whoops needed change. Not sure that it now makes any more sense but. . .​
 
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#17
in the absence of interest people would organize their activities in a different fashion. How much money does an Amish farmer need, yet they prosper.
Yes, interest paid in labor.

I don’t know Amish doctrine, but I assume from what I gather your labor is a community expectation. Helping in a barn raising is a form of interest (paid forward or back). It is in everyone’s interest LOL.
 

Bigjon

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#18
I'm not against paying rent on property.

I am against paying interest on entries made in a ledger.
 

tom baxter

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#19
in the absence of interest people would organize their activities in a different fashion. How much money does an Amish farmer need, yet they prosper.
Which is exactly what I said, so it's not BS. You want a no interest culture, join the Amish without your computer your car or your modern house. Go and live in a barn with your horses.

Don't think the Amish don't benefit from compound interest either. They certainly do. They buy tools and sugar and all manner of goods traded through our system, manufactured by companies that wouldn't exist if they hadn't loaned the start up capital in many cases.

Interest is as old as culture itself, as old as money. The only societies I can think of that had no loans or interest were the aboriginal peoples where a simple case of appendicitis is a death sentence.
 

Bigjon

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#20
Which is exactly what I said, so it's not BS. You want a no interest culture, join the Amish without your computer your car or your modern house. Go and live in a barn with your horses.

Don't think the Amish don't benefit from compound interest either. They certainly do. They buy tools and sugar and all manner of goods traded through our system, manufactured by companies that wouldn't exist if they hadn't loaned the start up capital in many cases.

Interest is as old as culture itself, as old as money. The only societies I can think of that had no loans or interest were the aboriginal peoples where a simple case of appendicitis is a death sentence.
Nope it is still BS.

You can't know that in the absence of the use of interest people would not use their capital wisely to create a better society for themselves.

The Fact that we have some baubles of technology in a society that used money created out of thin air on which we pay interest, does not equate to advancement of technology.