• "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding high finance, politics, constructionist Constitution, and mental masturbation of all types"

Utah Goldbacks

Voodoo

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,656
Likes
2,098
Location
Deep Underground Bunker
#1
I thought some of you would like to know about this concept. I haven't seen this anywhere here and I think its a pretty good idea. It's not just a supposed backing but paper currency with the gold printed onto the paper. Really an interesting idea and I like the attempt. The different denominations have different amounts of gold deposited on the paper. My first concern though would be potential wear.

https://goldback.com

1579804863970.png
 

Voodoo

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,656
Likes
2,098
Location
Deep Underground Bunker
#3

Ragnarok

I'd rather be
Midas Member
Midas Supporter ++
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
5,713
Likes
4,634
#4
I thought some of you would like to know about this concept. I haven't seen this anywhere here and I think its a pretty good idea. It's not just a supposed backing but paper currency with the gold printed onto the paper. Really an interesting idea and I like the attempt. The different denominations have different amounts of gold deposited on the paper. My first concern though would be potential wear.

https://goldback.com

View attachment 152464
If it were gold foil strips or threads within the paper it would last longer.
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
145
Likes
174
Location
Texas
#5
I recently had a private dealer gift me a 1 goldback note. It's an interesting item. Apparently they use some form of electrolysis to coat the gold onto a form (gold foil). They add some security measures and serial number and then sandwich the whole thing in a couple layers of polymer.

The note contains a single image/design that is visible with shadows/colors (ink) on the front side. The back side is not doctored up - it's just like the back side of a metal stamping.

The front of the note feels smooth to the touch. The back side lets you feel the design. I wonder if blind people could differentiate the notes/designs or not.

The note is pretty. It's a shiny golden ticket.

The note is very bendable and flexible. I can easily bend the top of the note to touch the bottom (forming a circle) and release it back to a flat state, but I'm hesitant to fold it in half flat like I would with a paper dollar because I'm afraid that doing so would crimp/damage it.

The 1 goldback note is purportedly 1/1000 troy ounce of gold. Roughly US$1.50 worth of gold (divide spot by 1000), but there is a decent premium on these notes (~$2 per note from what I saw) because the manufacturing process is a bit more involved than minting coins.

I could see these notes working well as an exchangeable currency if legal tender laws, capital gains taxes, etc. weren't tilting the playing field. I would certainly be more comfortable dealing with notes like these than 1/10th toz AGEs (which are sooooo tiny and easy to lose) or bits of those Valcambi CombiBars.

The only real downside I see to the goldback is the inability of owners to verify the gold content of the note(s). With coins/rounds/bars, you can measure size and weight and run other tests to verify the gold content. These notes don't seem to be conducive to testing. Maybe they are though and I just don't realize it.

It's an innovative idea for producing small denomination gold suitable for commercial exchange. If the verification issue can be satisfied, I'd love to see Utah lead the way in monetary reform like Ron Paul's old competing currency bills to make them practical for every day use.
 

newmisty

Splodey-Headed
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
30,504
Likes
46,615
Location
Qmerica
#6
Cute idea but I prefer my gold be divisible and make a 'ping'.
 

Voodoo

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,656
Likes
2,098
Location
Deep Underground Bunker
#7
I recently had a private dealer gift me a 1 goldback note. It's an interesting item. Apparently they use some form of electrolysis to coat the gold onto a form (gold foil). They add some security measures and serial number and then sandwich the whole thing in a couple layers of polymer.

The note contains a single image/design that is visible with shadows/colors (ink) on the front side. The back side is not doctored up - it's just like the back side of a metal stamping.

The front of the note feels smooth to the touch. The back side lets you feel the design. I wonder if blind people could differentiate the notes/designs or not.

The note is pretty. It's a shiny golden ticket.

The note is very bendable and flexible. I can easily bend the top of the note to touch the bottom (forming a circle) and release it back to a flat state, but I'm hesitant to fold it in half flat like I would with a paper dollar because I'm afraid that doing so would crimp/damage it.

The 1 goldback note is purportedly 1/1000 troy ounce of gold. Roughly US$1.50 worth of gold (divide spot by 1000), but there is a decent premium on these notes (~$2 per note from what I saw) because the manufacturing process is a bit more involved than minting coins.

I could see these notes working well as an exchangeable currency if legal tender laws, capital gains taxes, etc. weren't tilting the playing field. I would certainly be more comfortable dealing with notes like these than 1/10th toz AGEs (which are sooooo tiny and easy to lose) or bits of those Valcambi CombiBars.

The only real downside I see to the goldback is the inability of owners to verify the gold content of the note(s). With coins/rounds/bars, you can measure size and weight and run other tests to verify the gold content. These notes don't seem to be conducive to testing. Maybe they are though and I just don't realize it.

It's an innovative idea for producing small denomination gold suitable for commercial exchange. If the verification issue can be satisfied, I'd love to see Utah lead the way in monetary reform like Ron Paul's old competing currency bills to make them practical for every day use.
It's alot like the idea of the Liberty Dollars but instead of having the gold in the vault it's incorporated right into the note. That at least prevents the problem that the Liberty Dollar ran into, namely thugs came with guns to take it all.
 

Voodoo

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,656
Likes
2,098
Location
Deep Underground Bunker
#8
Cute idea but I prefer my gold be divisible and make a 'ping'.
That's good for buying big things but how do you get a hamburger? Silver works but this is another good idea.
 

newmisty

Splodey-Headed
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
30,504
Likes
46,615
Location
Qmerica
#10
That's good for buying big things but how do you get a hamburger? Silver works but this is another good idea.
As long as it's extractable.
 

Voodoo

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,656
Likes
2,098
Location
Deep Underground Bunker
#11

newmisty

Splodey-Headed
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
30,504
Likes
46,615
Location
Qmerica
#12
Gold is gold, no one asks what form you have. Foil, coins, bars, etc.
Really? When is the last time you sold gold other then bullion or us currency?
 

the_shootist

Trump 2020
Midas Member
Midas Supporter ++
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
45,996
Likes
76,859
#13
Really? When is the last time you sold gold other then bullion or us currency?
I don't see much gold foil getting snapped up these days
 

newmisty

Splodey-Headed
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
30,504
Likes
46,615
Location
Qmerica
#14

BigJim#1-8

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
3,593
Likes
13,174
#15
I don't see much gold foil getting snapped up these days
Things are so crazy maybe we all need to upgrade from tin foil to gold foil hats.
 

Voodoo

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,656
Likes
2,098
Location
Deep Underground Bunker
#17
It all melts down the same. Sure you may not get a premium as it would need processing but you could get 90% of melt for most anything.
 

Aurumag

Ag mirror of truth Aurum purity of mind
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
10,666
Likes
13,981
Location
State of Jefferson
#18
Photo please.

Front and back.

I recently had a private dealer gift me a 1 goldback note. It's an interesting item. Apparently they use some form of electrolysis to coat the gold onto a form (gold foil). They add some security measures and serial number and then sandwich the whole thing in a couple layers of polymer.

The note contains a single image/design that is visible with shadows/colors (ink) on the front side. The back side is not doctored up - it's just like the back side of a metal stamping.

The front of the note feels smooth to the touch. The back side lets you feel the design. I wonder if blind people could differentiate the notes/designs or not.

The note is pretty. It's a shiny golden ticket.

The note is very bendable and flexible. I can easily bend the top of the note to touch the bottom (forming a circle) and release it back to a flat state, but I'm hesitant to fold it in half flat like I would with a paper dollar because I'm afraid that doing so would crimp/damage it.

The 1 goldback note is purportedly 1/1000 troy ounce of gold. Roughly US$1.50 worth of gold (divide spot by 1000), but there is a decent premium on these notes (~$2 per note from what I saw) because the manufacturing process is a bit more involved than minting coins.

I could see these notes working well as an exchangeable currency if legal tender laws, capital gains taxes, etc. weren't tilting the playing field. I would certainly be more comfortable dealing with notes like these than 1/10th toz AGEs (which are sooooo tiny and easy to lose) or bits of those Valcambi CombiBars.

The only real downside I see to the goldback is the inability of owners to verify the gold content of the note(s). With coins/rounds/bars, you can measure size and weight and run other tests to verify the gold content. These notes don't seem to be conducive to testing. Maybe they are though and I just don't realize it.

It's an innovative idea for producing small denomination gold suitable for commercial exchange. If the verification issue can be satisfied, I'd love to see Utah lead the way in monetary reform like Ron Paul's old competing currency bills to make them practical for every day use.
I scour garage sales and estate sales in search of actual tin foil. It is nigh impossible to find.
Things are so crazy maybe we all need to upgrade from tin foil to gold foil hats.
50% markup might be the reason...
I don't see much gold foil getting snapped up these days
 
Last edited:

newmisty

Splodey-Headed
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
30,504
Likes
46,615
Location
Qmerica
#19
It all melts down the same. Sure you may not get a premium as it would need processing but you could get 90% of melt for most anything.
It doesn't melt the same. You're not going to throw gold bucks or ram boards in the furnace with the bullion. Extra steps needed = more cost.
 

plata_oro

Seeker
Seeker
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
303
Likes
178
Location
Treasure Valley
#23
I just stumbled upon these today on ebay listed by MCM. Very innovative given it's not like the Liberty Dollar (coin). The mistake Bernard von Nothaus made was not disclosing the coins were not privately issued and implied the de facto US Gov't had issued them.

There is very clear disclaimer on these notes and they are in accordance with both the Utah and Federal Constitutions. This subject matter should be revisited by Sunshine Minting and the Sound Money Defense League. Silver is the way to go, but the Legislative Branch has to clear the way first. I register to vote Monday, once that is done I can start to take action here!
 

WillA2

Silver Member
Silver Miner
Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 16, 2019
Messages
1,031
Likes
2,374
#24
from BF's link, apmex has a assortment of these

https://www.apmex.com/search?q=Goldback
That's about a 450% mark-up. APMEX is a retail operation. If you'll buy it, they'll sell it.

I think I'll stick to the metal. It can be melted and molded into whatever you need it to be for traveling, if necessary. Hidden in plain sight. Painted chess pieces, etc.
 

FunnyMoney

Silver Member
Silver Miner
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
3,130
Likes
2,923
#25
Gresham's Law.

You can not delete the laws of nature. Where criminality runs a muck, honesty evaporates.
 

GOLDBRIX

God,Donald Trump,most in GIM2 I Trust. OTHERS-meh
Midas Member
Midas Supporter
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
14,364
Likes
19,465
#26
It's alot like the idea of the Liberty Dollars but instead of having the gold in the vault it's incorporated right into the note. That at least prevents the problem that the Liberty Dollar ran into, namely thugs came with guns to take it all.
Plus this is a State owned currency where the Lib. Dol. was a private venture. The constitution allows states to make their own currency as long as it is backed by gold.
 

Ragnarok

I'd rather be
Midas Member
Midas Supporter ++
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
5,713
Likes
4,634
#27
After reading some more on this, I think it is a pretty good idea to get gold back in circulation and put the fiat dollar in the grave. Being that Goldbacks actually solve many fractional gold issues, are actually constitutional money AND have no currency face value associated with them, they are the closest thing to easily spendable gold that anyone has come up with to date. Many stores in Utah and some in other states are accepting them as payment, and it would be a great idea if every state would issue its own ”goldbacks’.

As for the gold content in the notes not being testable, gold in thin layers does transmit blue and green light which would be a “quick and dirty” way of confirming the thickness of the gold layer, and certainly XRF should work on these to test the purity?

2c,
R.
 
Last edited:

plata_oro

Seeker
Seeker
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
303
Likes
178
Location
Treasure Valley
#28
Plus this is a State owned currency where the Lib. Dol. was a private venture. The constitution allows states to make their own currency as long as it is backed by gold.
And create their own state bank like North Dakota in 1919. Utah has not yet done this yet, but this is the closest thing to it. I believe North Dakota is still the only state with it's own state-run bank. They could issue their own silver & gold backed paper currency if they decided to do so. They are not limited to issuing only fiat FRN's.
 

hoarder

Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
12,660
Likes
14,510
Location
Montana
#29
The only legitimate denomination for gold and silver is troy ounces of .999. Now if we need small denominations of gold, we can mint it alloyed with copper or silver (like AGE's). If for some reason we needed a 1/1000 troy ounce coin, it could be minted in copper with a minor percentage of gold. As long as the weight of the gold inside is marked in troy ounces of gold, it's as legitimate AGE's if minted by the gummit.
 

Usury

Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
4,742
Likes
4,276
#30
Seems like an overpriced novelty to me. 10% + $1000 premium???? No thanks...I’ll take my gold stamped into coins please.

BTW...they did and do mint smaller gold coins—not just 1 ozs...and for MUCH lower premiums.
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
58
Likes
155
#32
fyi if you guys arnt keeping up.....one of the founders just joined this forum ....https://www.goldismoney2.com/threads/new-person-introducing-myself.383970/#post-1931608

also being discussed in the financial forum
I've read through this thread before I joined the site. Someone from here visited Goldback.com which is how I found you guys. There isn't a whole lot I have to add other than that the premium on these things is well below 100%. We actually went out and hired a Youtuber to do an analysis of the Goldback vs every other small denomination gold product to see how it compares. That video should come out within two weeks. Naturally premiums on gold get higher as denominations get smaller and to my knowledge there isn't a less expensive 1/1000th of an ounce gold product. That said you won't win over everyone. If your goal is price exposure to gold then I wouldn't buy too many Goldbacks. If your goal is to trade gold for things instead of FRNs then Goldbacks will excite you.

I didn't come here to proselyte for Goldbacks though. I mentioned in the other thread that we are selling them now faster than we can produce them so the brakes are on. If people have questions about the Goldback that aren't answered by the website then I want to figure out what those are. So far it seems like all the information is out there.

My top concern is also wear. It is hardly fair that the Fed can print a $100 for 8 cents. They can just replace anything. These things are tougher than paper but not invincible. Thankfully people seem to be gentle with them and that helps a lot.