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voltage vs surge protection

Avalon

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I was watching my SHTF interviews and the one item has moved up the barter list to near the top after food. In areas with rolling electricity in south America surge or voltage protection has become a serious issue. The units are very hard to get. I have no idea what the difference between surge and voltage protection is. I found an article explaining the difference. Can anyone clarify what we will need if we start having rolling blackouts.

 

viking

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Unlikely to be an issue unless your neighbors are into arc welding. The transformers near your house should be capable of handling all the loads around you.

But for SHTF and power goes out. Backup generator is cheapest solution, then Solar/wind and someway to store energy, like batteries.

Or use your barter super tampons to get women to generate power for you.

1654951476454.jpeg
 
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StrawMan=Corporation

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Edward G Robinson Soylent Green Charging Batteries is what that exercise bike reminds me of, that was a few years ago but its time has come as the 1973 film was based in 2022.
 
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Avalon

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Unlikely to be an issue unless your neighbors are into arc welding. The transformers near your house should be capable of handling all the loads around you.

But for SHTF and power goes out. Backup generator is cheapest solution, then Solar/wind and someway to store energy, like batteries.

Or use your barter super tampons to get women to generate power for you.
Laugh if you must. You can barter ammo and booze or deal with hungry people. I prefer to do my bartering with tampons. I raised two daughters and worked with bossy nurses. Some with challenging temperament. I also have a moody granddaughter. I understand them. Stick to what you know.
 

viking

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Laugh if you must. You can barter ammo and booze or deal with hungry people. I prefer to do my bartering with tampons. I raised two daughters and worked with bossy nurses. Some with challenging temperament. I also have a moody granddaughter. I understand them. Stick to what you know.

I can only laugh, I have to, it is and will be my most important survival skill.

97291AE1-E5FC-4742-A427-C6D1064536BF.jpeg
 

viking

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I prefer to do my bartering with tampons. I raised two daughters and worked with bossy nurses. Some with challenging temperament. I also have a moody granddaughter. I understand them. Stick to what you know.

On a serious note, I do have a teenage niece. Would it be creepy if her uncle had SHTF tampons for her? Maybe I could barter with her, like in exchange, she has to pick-up her room?
 

Avalon

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I can only laugh, I have to, it is and will be my most important survival skill.

View attachment 263351
Agree.. and we did laugh when cases of tampons and pads were delivered to my house. Everyday is a new and absurd version of the Twilight Zone. Clown world rules. I am now grateful for my dysfunctional life that has seriously prepared me for this.
 

Avalon

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On a serious note, I do have a teenage niece. Would it be creepy if her uncle had SHTF tampons for her? Maybe I could barter with her, like in exchange, she has to pick-up her room?
No it would not be creepy. I would just let her and her mom know you have them if needed.
 

viking

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No it would not be creepy. I would just let her and her mom know you have them if needed.

It is just me and her dad now for those kids.
 

viking

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Agree.. and we did laugh when cases of tampons and pads were delivered to my house. Everyday is a new and absurd version of the Twilight Zone. Clown world rules. I am now grateful for my dysfunctional life that has seriously prepared me for this.

So I have to buy pads now too!?

OK, OK, where?
 

Avalon

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southfork

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For your electronics use those surge strips, the higher the jules protection the safer your appliances will be
 

Bottom Feeder

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In answer to your original post —
I have no idea what the difference between surge and voltage protection is.
A surge protector stops spikes on the incoming power line. Those caused by, say lightning, for example.
A 'voltage protection' device is called a Power Conditioner and that will also prevent spikes on the line but also bring the voltage up to the correct line voltage during a sag in the line level.
There are also some line conditioning going on with a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) which will also give you power for a limited amount of time allowing you to shut down your devices gracefully.

I have line conditioners, UPS and lightening arrester in my computer room.

BF
 

Avalon

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In answer to your original post —

A surge protector stops spikes on the incoming power line. Those caused by, say lightning, for example.
A 'voltage protection' device is called a Power Conditioner and that will also prevent spikes on the line but also bring the voltage up to the correct line voltage during a sag in the line level.
There are also some line conditioning going on with a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) which will also give you power for a limited amount of time allowing you to shut down your devices gracefully.

I have line conditioners, UPS and lightening arrester in my computer room.

BF
so what do we need for a situation where electricity is spotty?
 

dozer99

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I'm thinking we are all about to experience this (maybe not the bigger cities) and a backup generator is going to be a heck of a good idea. Especially if you are in the west this summer.
 

Avalon

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It is just me and her dad now for those kids.
Let her dad know so it takes it out of the creepy area. Good luck with the kids. Teens have always been hard but thee days are very confusing for them :(
 

Avalon

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I'm thinking we are all about to experience this (maybe not the bigger cities) and a backup generator is going to be a heck of a good idea. Especially if you are in the west this summer.
Evidently its been going for years down there. Its just a way of life now. Frying their electronics has been a real a problem from what he said. IIl try and find the video. He gave a lot of info. I'm thinking it might have been a long comment on a video someone else posted. It was good info. He basically said because he got his money, bartering items and preps in order he had avoided a lot of the horror others are living with. He said surge or voltage protectors were near impossible to get. Very high value barter item.
 

TAEZZAR

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Agree.. and we did laugh when cases of tampons and pads were delivered to my house. Everyday is a new and absurd version of the Twilight Zone. Clown world rules. I am now grateful for my dysfunctional life that has seriously prepared me for this.
Here is a good laugh for you. "Rhino rockets" are expensive, I get severe nose bleeds, so now I buy teenage tampons, apply Vaseline & insert !! No more emergency room visits. :funky::dduck::dduck::dduck::dduck::dduck:
 

Bottom Feeder

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so what do we need for a situation where electricity is spotty?
Unh — depends on your definition of "spotty"

Backup power is an engineering function. That is; you need to define your situation, requirements and time needed to keep power on.
UPS come in all sizes (and cost), generators would be needed when the UPS depletes their batteries. And a UPS that would run your whole house for a day (24 hours) would be extremely expensive.

So a UPS for immediate fail over and a generator backup to carry on when you get a chance to get it up and running.

Or you could just light a candle, cook on a small portable stove, a fireplace for heat and use ice chests.
And forget about the internet.
 

TAEZZAR

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Or you could just light a candle, cook on a small portable stove, a fireplace for heat and use ice chests.
And forget about the internet.
That is EXACTLY what we did back in 2002/2005, then got a 5K Honda gen. to run the fridg, freezer & well pump. If you run a gen. be sure to disconnect your main line in from the electric company, your gen can back feed & injure/kill a lineman.
 

Avalon

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Unh — depends on your definition of "spotty"

Backup power is an engineering function. That is; you need to define your situation, requirements and time needed to keep power on.
UPS come in all sizes (and cost), generators would be needed when the UPS depletes their batteries. And a UPS that would run your whole house for a day (24 hours) would be extremely expensive.

So a UPS for immediate fail over and a generator backup to carry on when you get a chance to get it up and running.

Or you could just light a candle, cook on a small portable stove, a fireplace for heat and use ice chests.
And forget about the internet.
Your confusing me.. I have several generators. I guess what he talking about is when the power has been off and then surges back on???
 

TAEZZAR

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Your confusing me.. I have several generators. I guess what he talking about is when the power has been off and then surges back on???
Avalon, if you disconnect your "service" (at the main breaker) , then run your gen until power is back (the electric company will call you to notify you) Then stop the gen. & reconnect your power, there will be no surge.
 

viking

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Just depends on your budget. I have an Automatic Transfer Switch. It disconnects from the grid if it goes down and starts the generator.

Little more pricey, but an inverter and batteries will work too, either independent of a standby generator or in conjunction with.
 

Avalon

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Avalon, if you disconnect your "service" (at the main breaker) , then run your gen until power is back (the electric company will call you to notify you) Then stop the gen. & reconnect your power, there will be no surge.
but I'm not always there... besides, I am scared of electricity
 

TAEZZAR

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but I'm not always there... besides, I am scared of electricity
Then use a Coleman lantern & a portable cooker !! :finished::dduck::dduck::dduck:

for Avalon.png
 

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Laugh if you must. You can barter ammo and booze or deal with hungry people. I prefer to do my bartering with tampons. I raised two daughters and worked with bossy nurses. Some with challenging temperament. I also have a moody granddaughter. I understand them. Stick to what you know.
Tampons in SHTF >= Smokes in prison.= slender, white, barter sticks.
 

TAEZZAR

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Avalon

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Ensoniq

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so what do we need for a situation where electricity is spotty?
generac generators or equivalent

black out and it fires right up automatically,

I have whole house and also a dedicated circuit breaker for it. If short term I just let it run but it looks like a long outage I’m running only essentials (the fridge /freezer storage area, the kitchen fridge/freezer, server room and family room)

I’ve been looking at the Tesla power walls but haven’t done anything there
 

TAEZZAR

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D-FENZ

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Avalon, if you disconnect your "service" (at the main breaker) , then run your gen until power is back (the electric company will call you to notify you) Then stop the gen. & reconnect your power, there will be no surge.
Our power here seldom gets disrupted but when it does we never get a courtesy call when it comes back up. I used to go outside and down the driveway to check for a distant neighbor's lights to come back on to stop my generator then flip the main breaker back on. And that only worked at night. Felt kind of stupid when I later discovered that the LCD display on the meter only displays when there is power to the grid and I would only need to check for that.
 

ttazzman

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blackouts are managable as power just goes off and you generate your own power (example would be like city water coming thru a pipe at a constant rate when it quits its off period)(brownout is like the water from the city still comes but at a slower rate)

brownouts are a issue for electronics as power goes into low-voltage which can damage sensitive electronics and make other electrical things like motors draw more amps to do the same work ...brownouts damage things ..........the only way to manage these are basicly to have your own power source going maintaining correct voltage.... UPS's like mentioned above for example could be power stored in batteries that your using and the grid just keeps those batteries charged

(example you get your water at a constant rate thru a pipe attached to a pond you own and the pond is constantly being refilled by the city water even if the city water slows down or shuts off you have water at least for a period of time but always at the constant rate)

overloads or surges .....usually are the result of a lightning strike or some other event causing a spike in voltage or amperage ......( example would be like if water from city went from 50psi to 1000psi instantly it would burst pipes and blow things out etc the only way to stop that is to either cut the pipe off the instant the high pressure gets there or divert the water pressure elsewhere which is what surge protectors do)

i use a UPS for my computer and electronics .....it has a battery in in that powers my computer at the right voltage all the time, and that battery is always being recharged by the grid power if a surge hits the battery charger will normally be damaged but not the rest of the unit)

hope this was slightly helpful to help understand the basic idea
 

Someone_else

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Our power here seldom gets disrupted but when it does we never get a courtesy call when it comes back up.
I have never received a call for power back on. My garage is on a separate panel, and I set up a long extension cord with a light to let me know when the power was restored, and now I have a beeper to let me know. My house has a generator with a dedicated breaker and a mechanical interlock, so we are safe. I mentioned before, without the interlock and without caution, if I tried to start my generator without disconnecting, it would immediately fail from trying to power the neighborhood.
 

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How Powerful Is Lightning?​

Weather.gov > Safety > How Powerful Is Lightning?
Lightbulbs.JPG


A typical lightning flash is about 300 million Volts and about 30,000 Amps. In comparison, household current is 120 Volts and 15 Amps.



So if you think those little power strip surge protectors are going to work... I have a bridge to sell you...

It's been my experience that if you live in an industrial area, or nearby one and a BIG machine turns on (brown out), or shuts down (surge), are what those strip surge protectors 'protect' against.

That's what those surge protectors attempt to limit. On shut down, the power has to go somewhere and it surges down the line until the power co can compensate. It's fairly automated these days, but electricity acts like water in a pipe.

It's also why hydro dams have a 'surge pipe' to dampen excess pressure variance when gates are shut down.

"Normal" voltage is 120VAC, but out in the county there could be 116VAC, or 124VAC... depending on how far out one is. Measured it myself once.

As suggested... a power conditioner tries to keep the line voltage at 120VAC. One finds those in musical venue PA systems because electronic stuff (chips and microprocessors) don't play well with voltage fluctuations and/or when out in small towns there can be a difference in voltage that amplifiers and gear suffer.


You can forgo the little power strip units and spring for a whole house surge protection system. A little up front cost under $300 plus installation.