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WHAT IF the Earth was Actually Flat?

Joe King

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Now how about addressing anything in this thread?
Already have.


.or how about addressing your 2018 theory about how the alleged "air sphere" mysteriously stores momentum for later retrieval. I mean, if proven, that's a ground breaking theory buddy! LMAO

Allow me to refresh your memory...
I was merely trying to address another one of the assinine "proofs" of a flat Earth you keep switching to once you've lost the the argument about a previous one.

Perhaps I was wrong about that particular one, but not the others.

I can explain angular momentum, but I can't understand it for ya.
 

Joe King

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Easily one of the stupidest comments ever made by someone attempting to defend their belief structures.
Being called stupid by a wacked in the head flat Earther is a compliment. If I appeared smart to you, I'd be in serious trouble.
 

solarion

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Sure buddy...I'll again explain one of the hundreds of thousands of photos that disprove Earth is a spheroid 7917 miles in diameter...if you'll FINALLY agree to provide details of your incredible "air sphere momentum savings and loan" theory that you've avoided discussing for over three years.

1637865242518.png



Truly a ground breaking moment for ball worshipers everywhere! Jokings inexplicable theory for how Newton's laws of motion can simply be ignored because...uh spinning air ball. ROFL

You constantly insulting others for simply asking questions about your precious spinning mud ball Earth theory is amusing as hell though.
 

Joe King

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.if you'll FINALLY agree to provide details of your incredible "air sphere momentum savings and loan" theory that you've avoided discussing for over three

I already did. I said tat in response to your asinine question about hovering helicopters.

You constantly insulting others
No, you do and have consistently in all these fe threads.

Your "herp derp" insults go back at least 6 years.

You are well known to use that term in response to answers you don't like, and use it to imply that the responder is retarded or stupid.

herp derp
  1. used as a substitute for speech regarded as meaningless or stupid, or to comment on a foolish or stupid action.
.....and if anyone cares to look, you've used plenty of other insults over the years too.
....and done so towards people who were merely trying to help you understand how the World works.
 
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solarion

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Ah, sorry I missed your revised theory of "air sphere momentum savings accounts". Happen to have a link? ...has it been submitted for peer review yet then? Is there any information you can share here with regard to your "explanation" as to why Newton's laws of motion can simply be ignored in the spinning ball Earth model?
 

Joe King

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Also, me calling you dishonest is not an insult, but rather simple fact.

Does an honest person misrepresent photos as showing something they do not?

No, an honest person would not do that.
....but you do.

This last pic of oil platforms is just the latest example. The guy who took the pic, did so as a demonstration of atmospheric refraction.
....but you totally ignore that and try to pass it off as something else, if that is not dishonesty, wtf is?

Another recent example is the vid posted about all the documents on testing aircraft that you misrepresent as proof of a flat Earth.

You ignore the reason why those tests were done that way and attempt to pass it off as something it is not.

Would an honest person do that? Nope. Just you.


There have been too many other cases to list all of them. It's your SOP. Present one thing, but say it is something else.

Dishonesty is the corner stone of the flat Earth mind pollution.
 

solarion

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This last pic of oil platforms is just the latest example. The guy who took the pic, did so as a demonstration of atmospheric refraction.
....but you totally ignore that and try to pass it off as something else, if that is not dishonesty, wtf is?
So now you're claiming intent is what matters? That one cannot find fault with evidence intended to support an argument? So then, by extension, someone claiming a photo as proof of flat Earth cannot be disputed...because the intent was to show the Earth is flat?

Can you stop doing mental gymnastics for even a second and address the observable evidence? lol How far can one see on Earth at an elevation of eight feet? Is it:

A) 3.46 miles

or

B) Whatever joking needs it to be to ignore evidence that disproves his spinning water pear theory.

The horizon line is very plainly well behind an oil platform that is 10.10 miles from the camera...which is at 8 feet. Do you have any explanation how that's possible on a spheroid 7917 miles in diameter? ...or are you simply going to ignore it and claim "refraction"? How far does light allegedly curve around your spinning water pear btw? Is it, however far you need it to be to ignore evidence? ROFL

Don't let any of this distract you from posting evidence of your peer review process with regard to your ground breaking "air sphere momentum savings account" theory btw. I've been eagerly anticipating more details of your research for years on the subject.
 

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IF the earth was flat, why do toilets spin in opposite directions?

I'm sorry for those that believe the earth is flat. I have someone that I know that has circumvented the planet in a sailboat and a plane the world is not flat.
 

Joe King

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So now you're claiming intent is what matters?
Yes. In the case of this subject, the intent of flat Earthers is to deceive.


That one cannot find fault with evidence intended to support an argument?
No. Nothing wrong with finding fault, if that fault is valid and is not being misrepresented.


So then, by extension, someone claiming a photo as proof of flat Earth cannot be disputed...because the intent was to show the Earth is flat?
No. Flat Earth bs should always be disputed, because it is typically presented in an a dishonest and unethical manner.



Can you stop doing mental gymnastics for even a second and address the observable evidence?
You are the one doing mental gymnastics in your attempt to poison the minds of others with flat Earth propaganda.

This thread is about "what if the Earth is flat".

All your hokum about gravity and space not existing is irrevelant to the question. All anyone need do is to look at your pic of Chicago to see that something is causing water to partially block the view of Chicago.
....and if your flat Earth dogma cannot explain it, one would need to ask why it does not.

It does not because it cannot.
.....and neither can you, so you ignore it while accusing others of ignoring your unrelated claims.


The horizon line is very plainly well behind an oil platform that is 10.10 miles from the camera...which is at 8 feet.
What part of, "the guy who took the pic did so in order to show an example of atmospheric refraction", are you incapable of understanding?

You are taking someone elses work and claiming it shows something that it does not not show.
Those platforms are not visible like that on a regular day by day basis. They show an anomaly that is different than what one would normally see.
....but you misrepresent it as being what one can see every day. Ie: normally.
If that is not being dishonest, what is it?


Do you have any explanation how that's possible on a spheroid 7917 miles in diameter? ...or are you simply going to ignore it and claim "refraction"?
It is what it is, but your dogma appears to have blinded you to reality.


How far does light allegedly curve around your spinning water pear btw?
That would depend upon local conditions at the time.


Don't let any of this distract you from posting evidence of your peer review process with regard to your ground breaking "air sphere momentum savings account" theory btw. I've been eagerly anticipating more details of your research for years on the subject.
Is that all you got? You are getting pretty pathetic.
 

solarion

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why do toilets spin in opposite directions?
They don't, that's a myth. Spin direction is determined by toilet design...not location of the toilet.

Compasses also do not suddenly begin pointing toward the so called "South pole" when one passes the equator either.
You are taking someone elses work and claiming it shows something that it does not not show.
Those platforms are not visible like that on a regular day by day basis. They show an anomaly that is different than what one would normally see.
Any proof? Why should I accept what you say, rather than what I can observe? How far can a human see on Earth at an altitude of 8 feet? If not 3.46 miles...then how far? Do you deny maths?

Everything else you said was merely to derail the conversation and/or lob insults. How about that peer reviewed paper joking? How about some further clarification on your "air sphere momentum savings plan" theory. Why do you agree that Newton's laws of motion are violated by the spinning air sphere model and then fail to explain your theory to dismiss the problem? What are you afraid of joking?
 

Joe King

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Any proof? Why should I accept what you say, rather than what I can observe?
The guy that made the vid said @:22

“Most days, normal visibility of platforms and boats, will appear they are behind the horizon, curvature of earth.”

That right there is an admission that on most days (ie:normally) they are not visible like that.

In other words, you are cherry picking.


He also said, @2:07

“Once in a while, not very often, there will be days when conditions are right to see full image.”

That's text out of the vid that your cherry picked photo was taken from. He says that it can only be seen like that "once in awhile".
....but you are attempting to say that it looks like that every single day.

In my opinion, that suggests you are either intentionally being dishonest or are too incompetent in this subject to correctly decipher what your own eyes see.

Again, that's just my opinion on how you present yourself and your "proof".
....and calling a duck, a duck, is not an insult.


In case anyone is interested, the vid those pics are from is called, "Ocean horizon rising (atmosphere) Blocking visibility not curvature"


Normally I'd post a link, but I refuse to post stuff made by dishonest flat Earth charlatans. The name is enough for anyone interested to find it.
 

solarion

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..which means absolutely nothing joking. I don't care about some guy's opinion, I care about observational evidence. Conditions change day to day...that's absolutely true...but there's still such a thing as mathematics. You admit there's a photo of someone photographing objects at over 10 miles away, but then you ignore the implications to argue a bunch of subjective crap. You ignore also the observable fact that the horizon is clearly much further away still. HOW?

I keep asking you how Earth's curvature is calculated, but you keep ignoring questions about how maths work. Can you answer a simple question? LOL

How far can a human see on Earth at an altitude of 8 feet? If not 3.46 miles...then how far?
How far can light allegedly bend around your magic spinning space fruit?


You continuously manufacture excuses to ignore observational evidence, but you never explain anything...like spewing forth your own theory on how Newton's laws of motion are not applicable on Earth...while simultaneously refusing to elaborate.
Ah, sorry I missed your revised theory of "air sphere momentum savings accounts". Happen to have a link? ...has it been submitted for peer review yet then? Is there any information you can share here with regard to your "explanation" as to why Newton's laws of motion can simply be ignored in the spinning ball Earth model?

Is there some reason you're unwilling to discuss the idiotic theory you invented to ignore the fact that an aircraft traveling on an air covered spinning ball Earth would violate the accepted laws of physics? It's almost like you're ashamed of your "work".
Normally I'd post a link, but I refuse to post stuff made by dishonest flat Earth charlatans.
Yet you proposed a theory about how the air sphere allegedly stores momentum for later retrieval in direct violation of Newton's laws of motion?!?

Do you have any self awareness at all? LMAO
 

Joe King

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which means absolutely nothing joking. I don't care about some guy's opinion, I care about observational evidence.
Observational evidence shows that those oil platforms are normally not visible as you are presenting them.

It's also not "some guy". The flat Earth tard who made the vid even admits that they are not normally visible like that.
....but you say that they are.


Conditions change day to day...that's absolutely true...but there's still such a thing as mathematics
Then why can't it be true that extreme conditions is the only reason those platforms look like that in your cherry picked photo?


You admit there's a photo of someone photographing objects at over 10 miles away, but then you ignore the implications to argue a bunch of subjective crap.
A photo of someone photographing? Are you referring to your Chicago pic? If so, everything I've said about it is relevant. It's a fact that buildings are missing.
Google a pic of Chicago and compare the two. A 6yo is capable of seeing what you are blind to.
....and he doesn't know what nasa is.

Are you as smart as a 6yo?


You ignore also the observable fact that the horizon is clearly much further away still. HOW?
Because of the refraction silly. It makes the area around the platforms appear closer than they actually are.


I keep asking you how Earth's curvature is calculated, but you keep ignoring questions about how maths work. Can you answer a simple question? LOL
You know how it is calculated. Do you really need your hand held on everything?
F'ing google it already.


You continuously manufacture excuses to ignore observational evidence, but you never explain anything
You are the only one ignoring observational evidence. Otherwise you'd have been able to see what your pic of Chicago clearly shows to everyone else who hasn't polluted their mind with flat Earth bs.
 

Zed

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Show me a real picture of of our round planet, then we can talk.

How? You will claim that any picture taken isn't real...

Seriously what would it take? Answer --> There is NOTHING you will accept.
 

Zed

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So explain this to me again, I vagued out quite a few months back there...

Tonight I will sail a course off Safety Beach in Port Phillip Bay, it goes several miles into the bay and around some navigation piles and back to shore @ Safety Beach. Basically in the area of the right side of the yellow line. Why is it that @ no point can I see the other shore ~ 14 nm away at the left side of the line.... yet I can see the mountains behind that are about 32 nm away?


Untitled.jpg
 

Joe King

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yet I can see the mountains behind that are about 32 nm away?
These?



Sure looks like one can see your Safety Beach from the top of 'em.
 

Zed

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These?


Yup, stick up like a pimple on a bowling ball! Pilots love them, you can always workout where you are south of Melbourne. The bloody great bay is a bit of a hint as well!

Sure looks like one can see your Safety Beach from the top of 'em.

Yes... if you know what you are looking for, the Sailing Club doesn't quite stick out like the You Yangs do on the reciprocal bearing.

You can drop into Google Earth street view @ Safety Beach, there is a road called Marine Drive down the foreshore. You are looking across the bay yet you can't see the other side. Hell you can't even see Mud Island @ 10 miles, South Channel Fort @ 8 miles or the Hovell Pile @ 4 miles! They are all so low to the horizon @ those distances you lose them!

 

Zed

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"You Yangs" lol, only in Australia...
 

Joe King

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Yes... if you know what you are looking for, the Sailing Club doesn't quite stick out like the You Yangs do on the reciprocal bearing.
When you go, be sure to take a pic to post here for @solarion so he can tell you that you don't know what you are seeing.
 

Zed

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When you go, be sure to take a pic to post here for @solarion so he can tell you that you don't know what you are seeing.

Hopefully it's clear enough... blowing +20knts at the moment so it will be a busy race and visibility might be low.

Screenshot from 2021-11-26 14-40-26.png
 

Zed

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A shot of a boat that I may or may not be on, taken from the breakwater @ the club. Maybe an eye line 6m over high tide. You can see some foot hills in the background, the 'mount' proper is probably behind the mainsail. Best I can do for now.

img-15304FB0713E-111E-FA87-11AE-73B97B04C3B6.jpg
 

solarion

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You know how it is calculated. Do you really need your hand held on everything?
What I'd like is for you to show some measure of consistency in your prattlings spewed forth to defend your spinning water ball religion. You conveniently avoid mathematics that prove you wrong, claim "refraction" at every turn, but you refuse to quantify any of it. How far can light bend around your spinning air covered water pear? Here are photos showing objects 3x the distance observable due to alleged curvature and your excuse for ignoring them is "refraction".

So how far can light bend around the magic air covered spinning space pear?

...and how long can the air sphere store "excess" momentum once "shed" according to your made up "air sphere momentum lost and found" theory? Do you even science...bro?
 

newmisty

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solarion

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Crock%2Bof%2BShit.png



Go jam two sticks into the ground and watch what happens ....then STFU already.
Awww...you had your feewings hurt by my free speech? I better stop discussing problems with your religion then so I don't further trigger you. lol

Hypothetical question for ball Earth proponents:

From the perspective of someone motionless in a space/time craft 395,000 miles from Earth observing a human on Earth's surface...near the equator experiencing a gentle 3 mph breeze blowing East to West said space/time craft occupant would quantify the speed of said breeze as:

A) 3 mph
B) 1040 mph
C) 771 mph
 

Joe King

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What I'd like is for you to show some measure of consistency in your prattlings spewed forth to defend your spinning water ball religion.
Everything I've posted relative to the amount of curvature of the Earth's surface, has been absolutely consistent with what you'd find on a 7901 mile diameter sphere.


You conveniently avoid mathematics that prove you wrong, claim "refraction" at every turn, but you refuse to quantify any of it.
Which mathematics you talkin' 'bout, willis?


How far can light bend around your spinning air covered water pear?
As far as local conditions allow at the time.
Different conditions would change the amount. Are you actually thinking there should be a constant amount of refraction at all times and all locations?


Here are photos showing objects 3x the distance observable due to alleged curvature and your excuse for ignoring them is "refraction".
Because atmospheric refraction is a real thing. Even the flattard who made the vid acknowledges that.


..and how long can the air sphere store "excess" momentum once "shed" according to your made up "air sphere momentum lost and found" theory? Do you even science...bro?
Again, is that all ya got? I was trying to answer your assinine "why can a helicopter hover" question.
Ie: back when I tried holding your hand by entertaining every wacko idea you'd put forth as so-called "proof" that the Earth is flat.

You'll seemingly do anything to avoid simply trying to explain why we can't see all of downtown Chicago in that pic you posted.

You complained about others ignoring falsifying data, so why not show us how it's done and apply it to your own evidence?

Otherwise, you would be a hypocrite for refusing to do that which you accuse others of not doing.

You're the one ignoring falsifying evidence

So, are you a hypocrite or not?

If not, put your money where your mouth is and apply falsification to your proof pic of Chicago taken from a beach in Indiana.

Tell us why we can't see all of downtown and tell us why we cannot see all of the buildings.
....that is, if you're not a hypocrite.

Willis Tower 2665-2.jpg
 

Joe King

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From the perspective of someone motionless in a space/time craft 395,000 miles from Earth observing a human on Earth's surface...near the equator experiencing a gentle 3 mph breeze blowing East to West said space/time craft occupant would quantify the speed of said breeze as:

A) 3 mph
B) 1040 mph
C) 771 mph
From the perspective of someone motionless in space, your question would immediately be seen as being dumb, because said observer would instantly see that the Earth is round.

Also, why are you even asking such a stupid question? Everyone reading (including you) knows damn well that would not accept any response that doesn't agree with you.

Also, it's entirely subjective anyways, as none of us has the ability to hang motionless in space 395,000 miles from Earth.
...and why 395,000 miles? Seems like an absurdly specific number that obviously must mean something in the flattard Earth community. Lol
 

Joe King

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Go jam two sticks into the ground and watch what happens ....then STFU already.

I like it! You are obviously much more eloquent with words than I
 

solarion

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From the perspective of someone motionless in space, your question would immediately be seen as being dumb, because said observer would instantly see that the Earth is round.

Also, why are you even asking such a stupid question? Everyone reading (including you) knows damn well that would not accept any response that doesn't agree with you.

Also, it's entirely subjective anyways, as none of us has the ability to hang motionless in space 395,000 miles from Earth.
...and why 395,000 miles? Seems like an absurdly specific number that obviously must mean something in the flattard Earth community. Lol
So no answer then...as usual joking? You could simply have chosen one randomly and had a 33.3% chance of being right. lol

Frankly, I think you know the correct answer, but know also it makes your air covered spinning space fruit model look like idiotic made up nonsense...which of course it is.

...and 395k miles was not chosen arbitrarily...I used your own priests of scientism ever changing propaganda to select that particular number so that you wouldn't claim the space/time craft was allegedly moving with the air sphere.

1637947316662.png


One would think a 1040mph wind blowing opposite the allegedly spinning air sphere would slow the air sphere...but apparently wind doesn't exist on Earth. That grown ass adults still believe in this idiotic and easily disproven ball Earth model demonstrates a stunning lack of objectivity. An inability(or unwillingness) to question one's own indoctrination.

Bonus fun fact: No human has ever left the alleged air sphere according to mainstream priests of scientism...the moon is within the so called "air sphere".
 

solarion

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If light remains a probability wave until observed by a consciousness...then how can space/time agencies be allegedly exploring the galaxy via unmanned vehicles that allegedly take "photos" and then transmit "data" about those alleged photos back to Earth, which is then allegedly compiled into an "image"?

Doesn't this imply that the probability wave is transformed into a particle in the past so that the camera attached to the alleged unmanned space/time craft can take a "photo" ...once said data is finally unpacked and observed by a consciousness on Earth? Clearly this would have to be the case...unless of course the space/time agencies on Earth are *gasp* LYING and there are no unmanned space/time craft exploring the galaxy.
 

Zed

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You could simply have chosen one randomly and had a 33.3% chance of being right

... because you know what is right and you are here to enlighten the fools?
 

Zed

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What is intellectual superiority complex?

Profile photo for Barry McGuinness


Barry McGuinness
Psychologist

A ‘superiority complex’ is simply an ingrained image of oneself as inherently special and better than all others, but it also involves trying to get others to agree with it. This is a personality trait that maintains an artificially inflated self-esteem. It’s also known as arrogance, self-importance and hubris.

Underlying it is always a dread of revealing any vulnerability. Holding an artificial image of themselves as ‘perfect’ or at least vastly superior to the average person helps such people feel invulnerable to criticism and therefore secure.

Some people use their innate attractiveness as a basis for it; some people use their privileged background; some use their physical build. And some use their intelligence. ‘Intellectual superiority complex’, then, refers to a form of arrogance that focuses on having, and giving, the impression that one has far greater knowledge and intelligence than others. To put it more strongly, the attitude is that “I am intellectually infallible.”

Such a person may indeed have a higher-than-average intelligence level or intellectual prowess, but pretends (and possibly also believes) that this puts him on a higher level than everyone else, and that his thoughts on any possible subject should always be accepted as correct and respected without question because he is, after all, never ever wrong.

In fact, he has an absolute dread of being seen to be wrong.
 

BarnacleBob

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A neighbor and I watched the moon rise the other night when I stated I wished I knew what the moon really is. He confidently stated it was a space rock caught in Earth's gravitational orbit....

I responded by saying really, who told you that & why did they program you with that response... He started to become agitated with the question so I then asked.....

"Have you ever noticed the sun & the moon in the same sky during mid-day while the moon was waxing at not quite half-phase? One must ask & inquire based upon conventional beliefs brought to us by & thru scientism "Why is the moon only partially lit? If the moon is allegedly being lit by the sun which is in full view and close to it with nothing in-between and the moon is located at the 11:00 sky position with the sun located at the 2:00 position, then WHY isn't the moon fully illuminated and HOW can it only be lit less than fifty-percent (50%).... Why is the unlit portion of the moon the same color as the sky behind it? Thus seemingly the moon appears transparent.... !!! Hmmm... What really is the moon???"

He quickly changed the subject...
 

solarion

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... because you know what is right and you are here to enlighten the fools?
Just asking simple questions about that which we all allegedly "know". Weird how nobody seems to respond to questions that point to problems with the spinning space ball model. Joking tries bless his heart, but then he gets burned inventing new theories he cannot substantiate to ignore the numerous problems with the spinning space fruit model. He's already thrown Newton and Einstein under the bus to ignore falsifying evidence.

"Why is the moon only partially lit?
No doubt the excuse whipped out to ignore that particular problem with the ball Earth model will be...refraction. After provably wrong grabbity magic...light refraction is the next most used excuse for why problems with the spinning water pear model should simply be ignored. Interestingly light refraction is a consequence of changes in the speed of light due to differing mediums...yet the same people insist that the speed of light is constant.

"No no, what we mean is, the speed of light is constant through a vacuum!"

...which of course doesn't include the space/time around the moon or anywhere else ever observed by humanity. That's why there is a 120 orders of magnitude problem in the first place...too much mass for grabbitational theory to account for. That's the problem with stacking one theory tale atop another in perpetuity...the end result bears no resemblance to observation. Oh and the priests of scientism cannot even confirm the speed of light is constant through a vacuum.


Cosmic vacuum and light speed

The first, by lead author Marcel Urban of the Université du Paris-Sud, looks at the cosmic vacuum, which is often assumed to be empty space. The laws of quantum physics, which govern subatomic particles and all things very small, say that the vacuum of space is actually full of fundamental particles like quarks, called "virtual" particles. These matter particles, which are always paired up with their appropriate antiparticle counterpart, pop into existence and almost immediately collide. When matter and antimatter particles touch, they annihilate each other.

Modern physics is a train wreck of theoretical bullshit stacked atop more theoretical bullshit.
 
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Joe King

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BarnacleBob

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WTF happened to the pear shaped oblate spheroid?

FB_IMG_1637982949610.jpg
 

solarion

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It's always 50% illuminated. The only time that 50% can be seen from Earth is at a full moon.
...which of course you cannot prove, but are perfectly comfortable assuming, likely because your NASA heroes told you so. I think they even have a fake AF video they claim they took of the moon passing in front of Earth. Total amateur hour CGI stuff.

Humans have never even seen the dark side of the moon because it allegedly magically rotates at the precise speed necessary to ensure it remains hidden. That's every bit as weird as the fact that it's 1/400th the size of the sun and also just so happens to be 400x nearer...so that they both mysteriously appear to be the same size from the perspective of a human on Earth.


Kinda gives one goosebumps! ...to think anyone believes this is anything other than bad CGI. It'd have helped if they'd tossed in some stars, but then what do you expect from a space/time agency with zero space/time ships and a measly $23,300,000,000 budget. Presumably in this fake video we're to believe it represents 5 hours(though the clouds never change and there's no terminator line shown) and the sun would have to be directly behind the camera.

WTF happened to the pear shaped oblate spheroid?
Guess it was time to make up some more bs, so they tossed in a single inconsistent angle. I believe they're claiming the Earth is technically a tri-axial ellipsoid. The same guys(NOAA) also have a different definition of where space/time begins than anyone else I've checked. It's almost like there are no objective facts with this spinning ball Earth model at all. Sometimes Earth is also a geoid according to ball Earth pseudoscientists.
 
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Zed

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Just asking simple questions about that which we all allegedly "know".

You poop on people from a great height, you don't ask any real questions.

<edited so as not to offend the sensitive flat earth intelligentsia - my apologies gentle folk>

Humans have never even seen the dark side of the moon

I've seen the dark side of the earth, does that help you? Nah, didn't think so.

WTF happened to the pear shaped oblate spheroid?

Too close to the shape of his suppository's, had to go with a more comforting idea. Selling god's suppository was a bit of an ask.
 
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newmisty

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