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WHAT IF the Earth was Actually Flat?

Joe King

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Bullshit, a pic isn't even legal in a traffic camera.
A pic shows what is visible. That pic of Chicago clearly shows what you'd see with your own eyes. Namely that all of downtown Chicago is not visible from that location.


Oops, don't mean to get caught up in this, I'm done with this thread,
Of course you are done, as you don't have an answer to explain it, and it's easier to run away with your tail between your legs than to use your brain to attempt an answer. Same as every other flat Earther ends up doing. lol

We're getting dragged into all kinds of fuckery these days, aren't we.
Maybe you are.
 

Usury

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I’ll just say that my own scientific knowledge and observations confirm round earth. OTOH, if the earth really is flat then the only possible explanation is that it proves we’re Gods snow globe. So do you want to believe in flat earth or atheism?
 

arminius

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What your arguments boil down to is "fuck you too, Joe'.
 

Joe King

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What your arguments boil down to is "fuck you too, Joe'.
Figures that you can't see what a pic clearly shows either, so you have to resort to using profanity towards other forum members.

All it shows is your inability to even be a halfway decent human being.
 

arminius

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Why the hell should I be nice to people who are obviously covering for those who are stealing big time from us, and from those who are maiming and killing us for their profit...
 

Joe King

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Why the hell should I be nice to people who are obviously covering for those who are stealing big time from us, and from those who are maiming and killing us for their profit...
I ain't covering for anyone's stealing. All we're talking about is the shape of the earth.

If you are too dumb to be able to see what's right in front of you, I guess you are beyond help.

Edited to add:...and I thought you said you were done 3 posts ago? lol
 

BarnacleBob

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Please settle down guys.... It's now getting out of hand!
 

Usury

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Pandora’s box, Bob.
 

solarion

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I showed a pic that plainly shows Earth cannot be a spheroid 24,901 miles in circumference and the loudest baller screamed refraction. I've repeatedly asked for information about how this light curving around the alleged spheroid thingy works, so that we can at least agree on photographic evidence, and have yet to hear a single response.

So I guess photographic evidence is out in this debate...as is mathematics. Apparently a human on Earth at an elevation of 8' can see in excess of 10 miles...unless of course ballers dislike the evidence presented...then we can all just ignore it. Weird, since we seemingly agree that calculators show the horizon line should be a mere 3.46 miles from an observer 8' above Earth.

Oh and BTW, the speed of light is constant...except all the times ballers need it to not be to ignore observational evidence.
Space is an infinite vacuum too...except it's also filled with many times more mass than calculations would indicate...AND it allegedly has gravitational waves going through it...even though there's allegedly no medium for the alleged wave to traverse...since it's a vacuum.

Jeepers, this spinning ball Earth model and the theory tales it's built upon are a freaking mess of contradictions.

Has anyone had a chance to figure out how sound can even work at the equator yet? One would think this would be real simple...but I haven't seen a response yet.
 

Joe King

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Please settle down guys.... It's now getting out of hand!
I was just responding in-kind. I've been willing to discuss any of this stuff in a civil manner in several threads over several years. If anything it's a short break from the real bs going on.

All I ask is that we at least be able to acknowledge seeing each others evidence. We don't have to agree on the interpretation of all of it. If we did, what fun would that discussion be? It wouldn't be.

The problem arises with this weird steadfast refusal to even acknowledge something they can plainly see on their computer screen.
Again, they do not have to agree on what it shows, but rather they should be able to offer an explanation of how they interpret the data.

How can we have an honest discussion if one side refuses to even see what's obvious to everyone else?


Also, me saying it's weird is not an insult. It's calling a spade a spade. It's no different than the pope refusing to look through Galileo's telescope. That is exactly the level of willful ignorance on display in this very thread.
....and again, I'm merely stating a fact. Truth telling is never an insult.
 
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Joe King

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I showed a pic that plainly shows Earth cannot be a spheroid 24,901 miles in circumference and the loudest baller screamed refraction.
Because that's what it is! Even your flattrd buddy who took it says as much. Only you are saying that it looks like that on a normal day to day basis. It's simply not true.
....and what do we call people who repeatedly say stuff that's not true and try to cause others to believe it? There's a word for that.
 

solarion

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So, once again...how far can light bend around the alleged spinning space pear? I don't care about a "normal day to day basis", I care about mathematics and observation. Can you at least quantify how far a human can see on Earth? ...since you claim maths and observation are wrong?

You're claiming atmospheric lensing is responsible for allegedly wrapping light around the spinning space fruit 7 extra miles...and all you have is your own opinion. Do you have any evidence at all to support your claim sir?

While knowing that the Earth is a sphere requires no suspension of reality in order to believe it.
I'm interested in knowledge...not belief. Knowledge requires evidence...belief requires only faith.

...and as far as I know, nobody in mainstream science claims Earth is a sphere...anymore. Sometimes it's claimed to be an oblate spheroid, sometimes it's claimed to be a pear shaped spheroid, sometimes it's claimed to be an ellipsoid, and sometimes it's claimed to be a geoid, but the simple "sphere" days are long gone. Please try to keep up with the updates on your own belief structure.
 

Joe King

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Here's what those oil platforms look like on a normal day with typical weather conditions.

flat-earth-2.jpg


In the intentionally misrepresented photo, they appear more blurry and compressed vertically.
Ie: consistent with what atmospheric refraction is known to cause.
 

solarion

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...and where was this cropped photo...you allege to show the same platforms taken? Distance? Altitude?

Platform Holly.

1638074165050.png

1638074332727.png


There are a lot of photos of these platforms. Are you saying all these photos were taken on days with "unique" conditions? Without specifics these photos are relatively meaningless. ...and obviously when there are specifics, but you don't like what the photo represents, then you always have that undefined "refraction" thingy to fall back on. Pity you also have to throw out the mass-energy equivalence principle with it. lol
 
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Joe King

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So, once again...how far can light bend around the alleged spinning space pear?
Which words in, "it depends upon local conditions" are you incapable of reading? Is the weather the same everywhere all the time? Probably not.

...and where was this cropped photo...you allege to show the same platforms taken? Distance? Altitude?
The same beach yours was taken from.


I don't care about a "normal day to day basis",
Of that I have no doubt. All you care about is taking an extreme example and passing it off as an example of the normal circumstance.
That's dishonest, and that's putting it mildly. After all, you are the one who is intentionally trying to convince others of something that is obviously not true.



I care about mathematics and observation.
No you do not. If you did you'd use those and your flat Earth dogma to explain why we can't see all of downtown Chicago in your pic that you originally said proves the Earth is flat.
I got that pic out of your post after all.


Can you at least quantify how far a human can see on Earth? .
Again, it depends on location and conditions. I've been on mountains where one day you can see for miles and on others you couldn't see 10 feet in front of you.

There isn't "one size fits all" when it comes to seeing distances.

since you claim maths and observation are wrong?
No, just yours. Lol


You're claiming atmospheric lensing is responsible for allegedly wrapping light around the spinning space fruit 7 extra miles...and all you have is your own opinion.
No. I have well known scientific fact on my side.


Do you have any evidence at all to support your claim sir?
See the real pic I posted above.


I'm interested in knowledge...not belief.
What a crock of sh.... lol


Knowledge requires evidence.
Your knowledge sure doesn't seem to.


..and as far as I know, nobody in mainstream science claims Earth is a sphere...anymore. Sometimes it's claimed to be an oblate spheroid, sometimes it's claimed to be a pear shaped spheroid, sometimes it's claimed to be an ellipsoid, and sometimes it's claimed to be a geoid, but the simple "sphere" days are long gone. Please try to keep up with the updates on your own belief structure.
It's a sphere for all practical matters.

Highest point above sea level is what? Maybe almost 6 miles?

On a ball that's nearly 8000 miles across, only an idiot would expect to notice a relatively slight 6 mile bump on it.
When looked at as a whole, one cannot even discern mountains.
 

solarion

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Nevermind, I'll just put you back on ignore. You're rude, abusive, and plainly have no interest in discussing anything in an intellectually honest way.


Beautiful Hi Res IR video of Mt San Jacinto from 123 miles away.

1638075839967.png


1638076874407.png
 
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Joe King

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Nevermind, I'll just put you back on ignore. You're rude, abusive, and plainly have no interest in discussing anything in an intellectually honest way.
What a f'ing joke. You wouldn't know honesty if it came up and bit you on the ass.
 

newmisty

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Joe King

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Ha!
No good deed goes unpunished Joe!
Apparently not.
....but him putting me on ignore isn't a punishment at all. It feels more like a reward. Lol
 

Usury

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Great thing about USA: You’re perfectly free to believe the earth is flat…and the rest of us are free to believe you are batshit crazy.
 

Usury

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And I guess vice versa
 

solarion

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Great thing about USA: You’re perfectly free to believe the earth is flat…and the rest of us are free to believe you are batshit crazy.
Interestingly, like nearly everyone else...I used to believe the earth is a spheroid...because I was taught to believe that. Now I know that if the Earth is a spheroid, then that spheroid is many times larger than 24,901 miles in circumference and that it does not function...cannot function the way we are told it does. Neither can the cosmos.

Like you, I don't have a problem with people believing whatever they like...and if you tell me you know the Earth is a spinning air covered water pear 7917 miles in diameter hurtling through space/time at 1.8m mph, then bring some facts to support that alleged knowledge and we can discuss it.

Belief and knowledge are not friends, they're not 2nd cousins, they're direct opposites. Beliefs inevitably stand in the way of knowledge by blinding one to observation. They cause biases that are difficult to overcome. That's why this particular topic is so divisive. It's why so many become angry when asked simply how the world around them can function...they're suddenly confronted with explaining rationally what they believe to be fact.

It seems almost too simplistic to ask how sound can possibly function the way we all know it does...or how aircraft can work in a rotating air sphere. At least I think it's safe to say we all know sound propagation works as expected at the equator, yet not one person in this thread has responded to the question/illustration I posed(or perhaps I missed it?). One would think, in a thread in which I've been repeatedly told I'm a dumb, stupid, science denying idiot(ironic given that I'm literally a scientist by profession), that someone would've taken the opportunity to embarrass me with facts exposing my ignorance. Yet...crickets.

Knowledge > belief

1638193691745.png
 

solarion

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Interesting fact about the mainstream cosmological model you may be unaware of...

Though this is the model of the sol-ar system we're all taught to believe in...with its 9 8 planets and one asteroid belt allegedly revolving around the sun and allegedly held together by a uni-directional force(not force) called "gravity".

1638196709499.png


Would it surprise you to learn that there is no model based solely in mainstream uni-directional gravitational theory(either theory) that can predict even the three most massive of these objects following their orbits without one(or more) of them being ejected? It's called the three body problem...and its been a problem for over 300 years.

Even this:

1638196938083.png


...is impossible over a relatively brief period of time according to mainstream gravitational theory. We're told Jupiter has been merrily orbiting the sun for 4.6b years and slightly more distantly, Saturn has allegedly been doing the same for 4.5b years...yet, even without considering their combined 161 moons...the thing breaks with just those three bodies.

Doubtless mainstream cosmology, though working on the problem for over 300 years is RIGHT on the brink of solving the 3 body problem AND working out the complex gravitational interactions of millions of objects in their own model. Any. Day. Now.

Meanwhile...this theoretical model is taught as though it's a fact...and we all grow up believing it. Just one of many theory tales we're taught to believe and not ponder critically.
 

solarion

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Galileo circa 1632 principle of relativity...incorporated into Newton's laws of motion. 268 years later due to Maxwell, Faraday, and Lorentz's brilliant work on electromagnetics...everything physics is seemingly awesome in 1900.

...except the early discoveries in quantum physics(notably Bohr) combined with Maxwell's equations and Newton's use of infinite propagation speed in his mechanics created a problem. James Clerk Maxwell's equations are incompatible with Galilean relativity...and Newton's infinite propagation speed assumptions...which were necessitated by Kepler's law of planetary motion. If infinite propagation speed is possible(as in Newton's now disproven gravitational theory), then how can physics claim that space & time exist? Right...they can't as it breaks the equivalence principle.

This concept combined with Lorentz's brilliant continuation of groundbreaking work by Faraday and Maxwell should have led physics in a new and less ridiculous direction...but instead Einstein's stupid gibberish happened...offering a way for mainstream physics to ignore the null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment. Groovy. So now we all "know" that there's no aether...all motion is allegedly reference frame dependent, and there's a universal constant speed limit(that changes) and mysteriously doesn't apply to communication between entangled particles.

All the while Lorentz has already provided tools to ignore reference frame rubbish...but unfortunately it relies upon magnetic field strength and as we all "know" gravity is not based on electricity.

Would that mainstream physics didn't "know" a bunch of stuff that's provably false and/or contradicts other "known" stuff so that knowledge could move forward while maintaining a shred of resemblance with observable reality.
 

Usury

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For the true answers to that which you seek, I refer you to the book of Genesis. Start with Chapter 1.
 

solarion

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Perhaps ironically, I've less of a problem with the story of Genesis than I do "big bang" theory...where an infinitesimally small bundle of matter allegedly appears spontaneously before silently exploding. One is based in faith(belief) and one erroneously claims the intellectual high ground by claiming it's based in knowledge...this I find offensive...as a scientist. I've zero problem with faith based arguments as they do not pretend to be provable or falsifiable.

Now, I'm curious how one can accept the spinning air covered ball Earth model while simultaneously recommending Genesis.

Does the bible not describe the Earth and heavens? Does it describe a spinning water ball covered in air hurtling through the cosmos at incredible speed?

...or does the bible instead refer to the Earth as immovable on it's foundation? Does scripture not refer to the corners of Earth? Spheres do not have corners or foundations.

1638226494766.png


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1638228033653.png


The word firmament comes from Latin "fimare" which means literally fix or settle. Yet today we recognize the word to mean "sky" or "heavens". Now about that water above referenced in Genesis 1:3 and 1:4.
 
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Silvergun

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Great reply solarion, I thought it was a mistake when I saw Usury bring the bible into the discussion. Not saying I think the world is flat but right now you lead the debate. JMHO

Its almost impossible to debate this topic because people cannot think beyond the current paradigm they believe they're in. You must let go of it all in order to research what is known versus what is belief. Its extremely uncomfortable at first and you are constantly shedding new layers of "belief". With that said, it might peak an interest of a single observer to research on their own and that is likely why this thread exists. I fought these ideas as well until I said whats the harm as truth shouldn't fear any investigation.

I finally put JoeKing on ignore because he is now name calling and saying people are being dishonest. I am not aware of anyone here intentionally lying. That is what dishonesty means afterall, correct? Theres people in here who think its a globe and people in here who think its not. Is someone trying to deceive someone intentionally? Not that I am aware of. To say your a flat earth tard that's dishonest is not helpful. I see liberals/race baitors/etc use the same tactics when facts don't align with their ideology.

I applaud Solarion for his patience. Lots of people are quick to attack him, but you may want to pay more attention because he is actually helping you even though you might be kicking and screaming lol.
 

Joe King

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I finally put JoeKing on ignore because he is now name calling and saying people are being dishonest.
I only say it because they are being dishonest. Because they (and you) are not interested in having an honest conversation.
...and you only put me on ignore after you tried defending sol and his pic of Chicago, but instead got your head handed to you and now you are all butt hurt over it. lol

Why not just explain why we can't see all of Chicago? It should be easy peasy for you.


I am not aware of anyone here intentionally lying. That is what dishonesty means afterall, correct?
When someone misrepresents something presented as being a typical occurrence when they in fact know that it is not a typical occurrence, that is intentionally lying in order to deceive others.

If not, what would you call it?


Theres people in here who think its a globe and people in here who think its not.
No, there's people who know it's a globe and others who choose to believe it is something else.


Is someone trying to deceive someone intentionally?
Yes! They are in fact trying to deceive!

Otherwise they wouldn't try to pass off lies as truth.


Not that I am aware of.
Try to keep up.


To say your a flat earth tard that's dishonest is not helpful.
The heck it ain't. Pointing out the obvious lies of those trying to deceive helps others who may not be aware of the lies.

I applaud Solarion for his patience. Lots of people are quick to attack him,
He's been attacking people and using insults for as long as these idiotic threads have been on gim2. Ie: for years.
 

solarion

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Has anyone worked out how this is possible yet? Seems like kind of an obvious problem with the air covered spinning space water-pear model, but I fail to see how this can work.

1638233843857.png


Edit: I've managed to rule out both refraction and grabbiton unicorn magic, so likely any valid explanation will have to include some facts this time and not just excuses to avoid them.
 
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Joe King

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Has anyone worked out how this is possible yet? Seems like kind of an obvious problem with the air covered spinning space water-pear model, but I fail to see how this can work.
Could've saved a lot of typing if you'd have just cut to the chase.

I fail to see
 

solarion

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If the earth was flat, we could take the commies to the edge of it, and throw em off............
Works for me. Now all we need is proof the Earth is flat and some bait to lure the commies to the edge. Perhaps we could smash statues of their heroes Marx, Lenin, and Mao till they come after us.
 

Joe King

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I finally put JoeKing on ignore because he is now name calling and saying people are being dishonest.
I want to address this further and show everyone exactly what I am referring to.

I was accused of ignoring and tap dancing around their questions and am now being accused of insulting them.

You ignore and tap dance around questions just as you claim the "flat earthers do"



In post 377 @Silvergun took it upon himself to engag me about @solarion 's pic of Chicago and to show that my assessment of the photo was wrong.

Is this the pic you keep talking about where you pasted a picture of the Sears Tower at a totally incorrect scale and you can even see the corners of the building dont match up and you say its proof of curvature?
To which I responded....
They do line up very closely. The bottom line you added is not going to the right spot on the original pic.
....but even if my ms.paint skilz weren't absolutely perfect, it's still obvious that much of the building is far below the water line.

Then I pointed out the fatal flaw in his attempt to show that @solarion was correct.
Ie: the missing buildings that are too short to be seen above the horizon.
Also, you conveniently ignore all the missing buildings that are too short to be visible above the horizon.

After that, no response, no attempt to use flat Earth "science" to explain why we can't see them. Just disappear from the convo for awhile in hopes of avoiding it.

I wasn't being mean to him. We were having a civil discussion. The only reason I have since changed the tone of my posts is because I thought might be possible to make him feel the need to respond.

However, he then comes back in with completely different arguments while also complaining about how I hurt his feelings and made him feel bad enough to put me on ignore.
Ie: trying to play the victim.

Imho, that is a dishonest way to conduct oneself in a conversation. Especially a conversation he started by responding to me about sol's photo.


I asked before and I'll ask again. How can we have a honest conversation if the other side brings up arguments that once shown to be untrue, just want to ignore it and move on to something else while claiming victory?

Doing that in an actual debate would mean you lost the debate. Ie: shot down in flames



Is there anyone here with any amount of sense, who cannot see what @solarion 's pic of Chicago shows?

It's not an insult to say that even a 7yo can figure out what this pic shows, and why water is blocking part of the view of Chicago.

Are you as intelligent as a 7yo?
....and again, no insult. It's merely objective truth.

Willis Tower 2665-2.jpg
 

Joe King

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a cliff in the water? to much rainfall?
Thanks! Those answers are light years ahead of anything the flat Earthers have offered, which is zilch zip nada nothing. They run away from that pic like Dracula runs and hides from the rising Sun. They're too scared to even look at the pic. Apparently it burns their retinas or something. Or perhaps it's just cognitive dissonance. Yea, that's likely it. Cognitive dissonance.


Ultimately, the issue comes down to that of falsification.
There could be a million things that suggest that a particular thing is a particular way.
....but all it takes is for one thing to definitively show that the particular thing cannot possibly be that particular way for all that other circumstantial evidence to go straight into file 13.
Ie: there may be corrolation, but causation has been disproven.
 

solarion

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Meanwhile...123 miles away and with an expected horizon line a mere 17.3 miles distant. Super zoom IR photography for the win!

1638251042177.png


Seems like an ass load of refraction to explain away, but I guess the strategy here is to simply ignore the video and hope nobody notices it.

Like all the problems with aircraft functioning on a spinning air ball. ...or wind on a spinning air ball. ...or sound on a spinning air ball. ...or the problem with a lack of mass to maintain angular momentum as the air sphere thins with altitude.

Meh, what's a good theory tale if you can't turn a blind eye to a problem...or ten.
 

Joe King

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^^^^^ lol

There's no information provided to independently verify the location and source of the photo.

You the viewer are supposed to just trust him on it. Edited to add: ie: trust the guy that is known to misrepresent photographs as showing something they do not.


Also, this is yet another example of him moving the goal posts. He said the same thing about the Chicago pic. That it proves him right.
....until he realized it didn't.

Time to move on to a new pic.

Said the same about the pic of the oil platforms too.
....until shown a pic of what they really look like.

Now we're on to some other pic he dug up somewhere on the net.

Again, is there anyone with an ounce of sense to 'em that can't see what's going on?
 

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This pic shows bottom of buildings not under water.

 

Joe King

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This pic shows bottom of buildings not under water.
Yet the photo that @solarion posted of Chicago taken from the beach in Indiana, that sol used to say proved the Earth is flat, (what an lol that was!), appears to show the buildings are in fact under water.
....but anyone with brain cells knows it really isn't.

Your pic also clearly shows all the buildings between the two red arrows in sol's pic. Still waiting on @Silvergun to explain that one. Lol


How can anyone can be so completely blind to reality?

Over and over they demand proof of surface curvature consistent with that of a 7901 mile diameter sphere.

Well there it f'ing is! Peel the glue off your eyes and look at it already.
....but all we'll probably get is yet another intentionally misrepresented photo.