WHAT IF the Earth was Actually Flat?

[solarion]

It is intellectually dishonest to continually insist someone else believes something they've never claimed to believe, just so that you can beat up on your own strawman argument. This is equivalent to leftists claiming Trump supports white nationalists...when that's not what he said.

If I have ever said simply "I believe the Earth is flat", please provide the quote. I have suggested only that there's evidence to suggest Earth is either flat OR a spheroid many times the size we've been told. Saying simply that sol "believes the Earth is flat" is a dishonest attempt to distract from the numerous problems with the spinning air covered water ball model.

The air sphere had to be claimed to rotate with the Earth, because otherwise humans on Earth would experience 1000mph winds. Okay fine, but a model including an air sphere rotating in synch with a planet also creates a whole lot of new problems...and though those problems are somewhat more abstract those problems are no less real, only less topical.

 

[RebelYell]

I've flown around the globe...
I never had the plane do a "loop" to fly "under the flat plate" to get to my destination...

That's weird because I went to the edge. The sea was just puring over it as far as the eye could see - billions of gallons per hour. Thank God for global warming melting the ice caps or there would be no sea left by now. When the ice stops melting the sea will be gone in no time, and once the sea is gone there will be no rain. Heaven knows how we have even managed to last as long as we have.

 

[solarion]

Thank God

Heaven knows

Heaven knows

Presumably you intended this to be ridicule of flat Earth proponents, yet invoking "God" and "Heaven" seemingly implies Earth is flat.

I find your post confusing.

 

[Joe King]

It is intellectually dishonest to continually insist someone else believes something they've never claimed to believe,

Yet all you post is stuff that you say proves the Earth is flat?
....and now you cry that someone called you a flat Earther?

If I have ever said simply "I believe the Earth is flat", please provide the quote.

All you post is flat Earth BS.

If someone only posted stuff that suggested the Earth was donut shaped, would it not be safe to say that person believes in a donut shaped Earth?

I find your post confusing

Why am I not surprised? Lol


In the following quote, @solarion specifically presents evidence for flat Earth, but now says he never said that.

More super zoom photos that prove the Earth cannot be an oblate pear shaped spheroid 7917 miles in diameter. These platforms, photographed at an altitude of 8' are 6.08 and 10.10 miles from the photographer...yet the horizon clearly appears behind them.

View attachment 234041

Here a red head shows that Einstein's theory of general relativity is provably wrong. The entire video is interesting, though the destruction of Einstein's silly theory begins at 17:30.

You also repeatedly claim that a ball Earth cannot work because gravity doesn't (according you) exist.

So if you think that, you'd have to think that it is flat. Because any other shape would have a top and bottom same as a sphere does.
....but you say that would be impossible.

Yet you take offense at being called a flat Earther.

That's being about as dishonest as one could get.
....but what should anyone expect from someone who habitually and intentionally misrepresents his so-called "evidence"?

If intentional misrepresentation isn't being dishonest, wtf is it?

 

[RebelYell]

Presumably you intended this to be ridicule of flat Earth proponents, yet invoking "God" and "Heaven" seemingly implies Earth is flat.

I find your post confusing.

I'm telling you man. I went to the edge. I have seen it. This should put all debate to rest. Why do you find this confusing?

 

[solarion]

...and then you present evidence of me not saying the Earth is flat. ROFL

Some people really cannot believe that anyone may simply be seeking objective truth.

Who are we? Why are we here? How did we get here? Where did we come from? These are questions humankind has been asking for millennium and science does not answer. Merely dismissing these questions by invoking "big bang" theory does not explain anything...even if one accepts that stupid theory based upon nothing...then where did the material for the "big bang" come from? Why is Earth at the center of the cosmological background radiation origin point?

The obvious problems with the spinning air covered water ball model are, to me, evidence that Earth is not as we are told...it cannot be. Yet, that is the basis for the belief that Earth is not special and not unique. That's the basis for most accepting that there is no intelligent design at work here. Even orthodox Christians have been made to abandon biblical tradition on this topic, because they wrongly believe that science has proven a bunch of stuff that they have not. All science has done is present a bunch of theory tales as though they're fact.

People that claim they know, beyond any doubt, that the Earth is a big air covered spinning water ball...yet are unable even to explain how sound can work at the equator...along with numerous other questions. If that doesn't bother you...then cool. It bothered me that I did not know how the spinning air covered water ball can possibly work and I went looking for answers.

 

[arminius]

Some people really cannot believe that anyone may simply be seeking objective truth.

It's truly beyond their comfort zone. And this is fascinating in of itself. Makes me wonder where that programming came from, and for what purpose.
Seems to me that we are increasingly living in fantasy worlds, created not for we the people benefit, but for a force now struggling hard for total control of our thoughts and wonderings, so in order to pretty much charge us as they want and will. So they do their best to marshal that by limiting our imagination, and inserting theirs as the only choice. By law, society, sexuality, gender, on and on. It's relentless...

All science has done is present a bunch of theory tales as though they're fact.
I went looking for answers.

And thank you for that. Yours is the sanest voice here, and I appreciate your vision of the seeming fact that certain physics may not be as we have been led to believe. And your exploration of that. I have considered the earth to be a spinning globe of rocks that increases and decreases in size, in all directions over time, thus allowing huge animals such as the brontosaurus to walk on terra firma, but no critter of that size could exist in todays "gravity", LOL that mysterious construction.

 

[newmisty]

That's weird because I went to the edge. The sea was just puring over it as far as the eye could see - billions of gallons per hour. Thank God for global warming melting the ice caps or there would be no sea left by now. When the ice stops melting the sea will be gone in no time, and once the sea is gone there will be no rain. Heaven knows how we have even managed to last as long as we have.

You didn't happen to have your camera with you did you?

 

[RebelYell]

You didn't happen to have your camera with you did you?

It so happens I did. It was a pretty close run thing - we almost sailed off the edge ourselves, but luckily we were able to avoid such a fate.

 

[solarion]

You guys do realize that actual flat Earth proponents have heard/seen all of these memes right? Not only are they not bothered by them, many actually collect the memes to laugh at...particularly the ones involving cats and tables...which are plainly the funniest of them.

While amusing, I frankly find it even more so that I made an illustration with MS paint in a few minutes describing how sound allegedly works on Earth and how it cannot work and not one single person in this thread has said a single word about it.

...still nothing? ...and that doesn't bother you? Really? How can anyone "know" we live on an air covered spinning water fruit and not "know" how sound works on it?

 

[newmisty]

It so happens I did. It was a pretty close run thing - we almost sailed off the edge ourselves, but luckily we were able to avoid such a fate.

View attachment 234931

Phew!!!! That was close!

 

[RebelYell]

You guys do realize that actual flat Earth proponents have heard/seen all of these memes right? Not only are they not bothered by them, many actually collect the memes to laugh at...particularly the ones involving cats and tables...which are plainly the funniest of them.

While amusing, I frankly find it even more so that I made an illustration with MS paint in a few minutes describing how sound allegedly works on Earth and how it cannot work and not one single person in this thread has said a single word about it.

View attachment 234933

...still nothing? ...and that doesn't bother you? Really? How can anyone "know" we live on an air covered spinning water fruit and not "know" how sound works on it?

Why would anyone bother to actually debate with you? The problem is that you have not and will not put in the work to actually understand the scientific models and the observations and experiments which have been done to confirm them. And since you can't be bothered to take the time, or you lack the intellect, to understand the work of generations of physicists, you fail to understand that your objections and observations are not in the least inconsistent with the laws of physics.

If your example above had any merit whatosever, a passenger on concorde would not be able to talk to someone sitting in the seat in front of him.

Despite all your talk of heaven and God, you are spreading Satan's message of madness with abandon.

 

[solarion]

So now Earth is a closed system? I thought Earth was an open system? Is it possible to leave the Earth?

Despite all your talk of heaven and God, you are spreading Satan's message of madness with abandon.

So sphere's have corners? ...and there's water above and below the firmament...which is firmly set and immovable, but rotating and hurtling through space/time at over 1.8m mph?

Are you certain, I'm the one that's misreading the bible? Is there a section there on how the Earth is spinning?

 

[the_shootist]

Gentlemen, you amuse me!

 

[Silvergun]

Why would anyone bother to actually debate with you? The problem is that you have not and will not put in the work to actually understand the scientific models and the observations and experiments which have been done to confirm them. And since you can't be bothered to take the time, or you lack the intellect, to understand the work of generations of physicists, you fail to understand that your objections and observations are not in the least inconsistent with the laws of physics.

If your example above had any merit whatosever, a passenger on concorde would not be able to talk to someone sitting in the seat in front of him.

Despite all your talk of heaven and God, you are spreading Satan's message of madness with abandon.

Interesting, that you believe the Bible supports the globe model. From my perspective they're trying to hide God by worshipping scientific dogmas to make people focus solely on the physical world. Cutting you off from the most high.

I think you're missing the point on why this debate matters. It is fun to troll and post silly memes though at times. Especially now that there is so much evil in the world its nice to escape and laugh for a bit.

As others have stated the shape and size of our cage is somewhat irrelevant although it would be nice to know what it is. The goal is to lead you away from the ways of the world. In fact, if you read from the Nag Hammadi library it suggests that matter in general is evil as we seem to be light trapped inside of a physical body. I think they refer to this as the two tombs. A physical body (first tomb) and a physical world (second tomb). Your divine light or spark (soul/spirit/etc) is you not my meat suit that is typing this post. Wouldn't it be ironic that what most on GIM2 would think is the silliest thread (flat earth durp durp) may be the very seed needed for you to eventually make it out of this prison.

Cheers

 

[solarion]

Isaiah 40:22

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Here Earth is referred to as a circle, but circle is not a synonym for sphere. That said, some interpretations quite literally show a roughly spherical shape, though the land is flat and the whole thing is perceived as stationary.

The above is also very much like a typical flat Earth model.

 

[RebelYell]

So now Earth is a closed system? I thought Earth was an open system? Is it possible to leave the Earth?

See what I mean. Closed system? Open system? What has this got to do with the point I made? You clearly have not taken even a high school physics class (or you flunked it), and because of that your criticisms are worthless.

You are like a man who has not bothered to learn Greek or Hebrew arguing that the bible has been incorrectly translated. It is simply not worth anyone's time to listen, or respond, to a word you say.

Go away and study physics for a couple of years, and then come back and tell me which bits you have problems with and why - instead of making claims about things you have made no attempt to understand.

 

[Silvergun]

See what I mean. Closed system? Open system? What has this got to do with the point I made? You clearly have not taken even a high school physics class (or you flunked it), and because of that your criticisms are worthless.

You are like a man who has not bothered to learn Greek or Hebrew arguing that the bible has been incorrectly translated. It is simply not worth anyone's time to listen, or respond, to a word you say.

Go away and study physics for a couple of years, and then come back and tell me which bits you have problems with and why - instead of making claims about things you have made no attempt to understand.

You speak of God, but worship Mammon theories.

High school physics class does not have the answers to lifes most important questions. I don't think this thread is for you my friend.

 

[solarion]

What has this got to do with the point I made?

Everything...if reference frames matter. I thought ball Earth proponents adored reference frame arguments?

Just because I question things that you seem to think are obvious, doesn't mean I haven't studied physics. Teach me master...

 

[solarion]

You speak of God, but worship Mammon theories.

High school physics class does not have the answers to lifes most important questions. I don't think this thread is for you my friend.

Interestingly, when I challenge the physics of the ball Earth model, I'm referred to Genesis. Then when I talk about how the bible doesn't appear to support the ball Earth model, I'm told I should learn about physics. Weird.

Questioning this topic really seems to ruffle feathers.

 

[DHAWK]

 

[DHAWK]

Over and over they demand proof of surface curvature consistent with that of a 7901 mile diameter sphere.

Well the water thingy is interesting since 3/4 of earth is water so they say.
So if we can prove the curved ocean then thats something.

 

[RebelYell]

You speak of God, but worship Mammon theories.

No I do not.

High school physics class does not have the answers to lifes most important questions. I don't think this thread is for you my friend.

Of course high school physics (or any of level of physics) doesn't have the answer to life's most important questions. But that doesn't make it incorrect either.

This thread is for me, because this thread is not about life's most important questions. The answers to those questions do not depend on the shape of the earth.

This thread is about a number of people who, for their own purposes whatever those may be, are choosing to question whether our current understanding of physics is correct or not, seemingly without bothering to put in the effort to understand what they are criticizing. Such people are at a minimum lazy and unintelligent, and are far more likely disingenous and quite possibly deliberately evil.

 

[RebelYell]

Interestingly, when I challenge the physics of the ball Earth model,

You don't "challenge the physics" of the ball earth model or anything else.

Your ignorance of physics is so complete and total (at least based upon the arguments you make) that you don't know what the laws of physics are, how they operate, and therefore whether your assertions are contrary to those laws or not. You proudly make statements about phenomena that are entirely consistent with physics, couched in pseudo-babble which has nothing to do with physics, and say "there that proves that physics is wrong".

You are like a toddler who can't yet understand multiplication staring at a page full of Einstein's equations saying "this doesn't make any sense".

Well you're darn tooting right it doesn't make any sense. To you. But that is not the fault of Einstein or his equations.

 

[RebelYell]

Everything...if reference frames matter. I thought ball Earth proponents adored reference frame arguments?

Just because I question things that you seem to think are obvious, doesn't mean I haven't studied physics. Teach me master...

You may have studied physics, in which case you are merely being disingenuous, which I have long suspected.

But no I won't teach you physics. Why should I? Teach yourself if you actually want to learn - which I highly doubt.

 

[DHAWK]

Here's one!
The Red Sea which looks like the blue sea to me, showing an underwater coral reef.
Well I guess you can find anything online but dont prove anything cause you cant always get all the facts.
Looks curved to me.

 

[RebelYell]

So now Earth is a closed system? I thought Earth was an open system? Is it possible to leave the Earth?

So sphere's have corners? ...and there's water above and below the firmament...which is firmly set and immovable, but rotating and hurtling through space/time at over 1.8m mph?

Are you certain, I'm the one that's misreading the bible? Is there a section there on how the Earth is spinning?

Those are not physics or math arguments, and as such I do not have nearly as much of a problem with them as I do when you make "arguments" about horizons, curvature, or the speed of sound etc.

 

[RebelYell]

Here's one!
The Red Sea which looks like the blue sea to me, showing an underwater coral reef.
Well I guess you can find anything online but dont prove anything cause you cant always get all the facts.
Looks curved to me.

View attachment 234957

Maybe it looks curved, but that's just because of the blue filter on the camera lens bending the light. And look about half way up your photo. You see the line where the sea appears to meet the sky? That's the edge. Don't get too close in a canoe.

 

[Joe King]

Some people really cannot believe that anyone may simply be seeking objective truth.

You say that, but reject any truth that might even suggest you are wrong about the Earth not being round in shape.

People that claim they know, beyond any doubt, that the Earth is a big air covered spinning water ball...yet are unable even to explain how sound can work at the equator...along with numerous other questions.

I in fact know, beyond any doubt, that the Earth is in fact round in shape.
Yet for whatever reason, sound does in fact work at the Equator.

How you choose to reconcile the two is your problem.

(to @solarion ) Why would anyone bother to actually debate with you?

Good question! At one time I tried, but once the dishonesty became plainly apparent, I mostly just respond to counter the bs for the benefit of any readers who might think there is any merit to his arguments.

The problem is that you have not and will not put in the work to actually understand the scientific models and the observations and experiments which have been done to confirm them. And since you can't be bothered to take the time, or you lack the intellect, to understand the work of generations of physicists, you fail to understand that your objections and observations are not in the least inconsistent with the laws of physics.

My money is on the intellect part. lol

(to @solarion ) Despite all your talk of heaven and God, you are spreading Satan's message of madness with abandon.

Good point. Satan employs deception too.

You clearly have not taken even a high school physics class (or you flunked it), and because of that your criticisms are worthless.

My money is on flunked. lol

So if we can prove the curved ocean then thats something.

We already proved that the surface of Lake Michigan is curved, and did so using @solarion 's own pic. lol

(to @solarion) Your ignorance of physics is so complete and total (at least based upon the arguments you make) that you don't know what the laws of physics are, how they operate, and therefore whether your assertions are contrary to those laws or not. You proudly make statements about phenomena that are entirely consistent with physics, couched in pseudo-babble which has nothing to do with physics, and say "there that proves that physics is wrong".

I'm glad others are noticing this too.

(to @solarion ) You are like a toddler who can't yet understand multiplication staring at a page full of Einstein's equations saying "this doesn't make any sense".

Nice way of putting it!

(to @solarion ) You may have studied physics, in which case you are merely being disingenuous, which I have long suspected.

You are being far too kind.

 

[arminius]

Well, all the big smooth lying trolls are dancing here now.

Question is, why is this such a big topic for them to pretend to not just refute, pretend misinformation, but to slander others here exploring this topic about?

There's big money in it somehow...

 

[DodgebyDave]

one of the more epic shoegaze sessions.............good work, Toady!

 

[arminius]

Moar slander, just keep it coming so all can see your ugliness and perfidity...

 

[the_shootist]

 

[arminius]

Kinda hard to escape that programming, isn't it...

 

[lukdiver]

What part of 'globe' don't you get? As I posted way back here I sailed across the South Pacific (1990) and into San Francisco with a aluminum Freiberger sextant salvaged from a scuttled sailboat in Porto Bello, Panama- a Casio digital wristwatch- a Radio-Shack Time-Cube radio for WWV timeticks. My celestial calculator was faulty (GPS too) so just used a simple trigonometry calculation for local 'noon' suns. Good enough for 3 mile or less accuracy which was smaller than the 'dot' I put on the chart with a .5mm mechanical pencil. Spent many a hour watching the sails bend the wind and create the 'lift' that pulled our sailboat across the globe. Didn't seem hard for me to understand.
I'd imagine Drake and Cavendish figured out it was a globe?

 

[solarion]

Why is it globe proponents always seem to think they're the only ones that were indoctrinated at a public school? Getting an "A" on a science test does not mean you understand physics or how the globe model can even work, it means simply that you memorized some responses and regurgitated them on cue effectively.

Truly understanding a model as complex as the air covered spinning mud ball requires a great deal of time, critical thought, and objectivity. For instance, it's easy to claim a mythical gravity container is allegedly allowing for Earth's pressurized rotating air sphere to be in direct contact with the alleged vacuum of space/time, but then how is angular momentum maintained throughout the air sphere? Newtonian gravitational theory calls for exponentially declining "force" as the product of the masses declines and the square of the distance between their centers increases.

In the spinning air covered water ball theory, one can observe both declining mass and increasing distance as one moves away from the surface of Earth...yet allegedly angular momentum is maintained throughout. Ignoring the simple fact that Newtonian gravitational theory requires infinite propagation speed(lol), how is this possible? Then allegedly the spinning air ball gradually becomes "massless" at some undefined distance from Earth's surface...so that it can allegedly then be in direct contact with the alleged vacuum of space/time. ...which is a direct violation of the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Now accepting that nobody has ever, in the history of the world, fashioned a working physical model of this theory in action and it violates accepted laws of physics...why does anyone accept this as our reality? How is this model science and not science fiction?

 

[Joe King]

Question is, why is this such a big topic for them to pretend to not just refute, pretend misinformation, but to slander others here exploring this topic about?

Answer is, it's not such a big topic.
....but certain people insist on continuing to bring it up. So it gets discussed.

The only reason I have resorted to responding in the fashion I have been, is due to the irrational refusal by those promoting flat Earth to just look at a photo and to give us their explanation as to why the photo shows what it does.

No one is saying they must agree with what I say it shows. All I am asking for is for them to tell why we can't see all of downtown Chicago.
....and why some buildings are missing from the photo.

Why the steadfast refusal to even acknowledge being able to see the photo?

Especially when that photo was originally presented as being proof that the Earth's surface has no curvature?

If the pic wasn't being misrepresented by @solarion to begin with, why is he so unwilling to address others concerns about his evidence?

@arminius , my question to you is, how can we have an actual civil conversation if one side acts like they can't even see a picture on their computer screen? A picture @solarion originally posted?
....and if he posted it, we all know darn well that he can see it. Hence my claim about him being dishonest in the discussion.

 

[RebelYell]

Why is it globe proponents always seem to think they're the only ones that were indoctrinated at a public school? Getting an "A" on a science test does not mean you understand physics or how the globe model can even work, it means simply that you memorized some responses and regurgitated them on cue effectively.

Truly understanding a model as complex as the air covered spinning mud ball requires a great deal of time, critical thought, and objectivity. For instance, it's easy to claim a mythical gravity container is allegedly allowing for Earth's pressurized rotating air sphere to be in direct contact with the alleged vacuum of space/time, but then how is angular momentum maintained throughout the air sphere? Newtonian gravitational theory calls for exponentially declining "force" as the product of the masses declines and the square of the distance between their centers increases.

View attachment 235017

In the spinning air covered water ball theory, one can observe both declining mass and increasing distance as one moves away from the surface of Earth...yet allegedly angular momentum is maintained throughout. Ignoring the simple fact that Newtonian gravitational theory requires infinite propagation speed(lol), how is this possible? Then allegedly the spinning air ball gradually becomes "massless" at some undefined distance from Earth's surface...so that it can allegedly then be in direct contact with the alleged vacuum of space/time. ...which is a direct violation of the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Now accepting that nobody has ever, in the history of the world, fashioned a working physical model of this theory in action and it violates accepted laws of physics...why does anyone accept this as our reality? How is this model science and not science fiction?

This is not physics. It is a babble which mingles concepts without regard to logic or math, claims contradictions where none exist, makes unsupported and untrue claims, and provides no proof of its conclusions.

You need no more than a basic high school physics class to understand that Newton's laws are perfectly adequate to explain how and why our atmosphere is held in place.

Stick to the bible if you want to claim the earth is flat. At least a claim that it is flat because the bible says so is logically consistent.

Claiming that physics cannot explain something which it explains perfectly well, just because you are incapable of basic math, proves only your failings not those of physics.

My guess is that you are a paid agent of the government. You come here in order to do harm to other people, and to help your masters with their deceptions while they murder and steal from us all. You are helping create a hell on earth. Why?

 

[solarion]

Interesting...as I literally included maths in the post you quoted.

Claiming that physics cannot explain something which it explains perfectly well

So explain it. Just hurling a bunch of insults and claiming there's nothing to see here...explains nothing. Tell me where you have demonstrable proof that gas pressure can exist in the absence of a container. Demonstrate a rotating pressurized air sphere in direct contact with a vacuum.

Stick to the bible if you want to claim the earth is flat.

I've never claimed the Earth is flat. I merely pointed to biblical verses that indicate the Earth cannot be as ball Earth proponents claim. For that I was told to focus on science...though the conversation about the bible began, when I was told to forget science and focus on the bible. ROFL

Whatever form this debate takes, ball Earth proponents seem very reluctant to actually discuss much of anything.

 

[Joe King]

This is not physics. It is a babble

And it's not even good babble. Lol