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WHAT IF the Earth was Actually Flat?

Joe King

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Gravity should be stronger then buoyancy?
Why should it be? Simply because you think it should be?
Way I see it is that buoyancy is merely the ordering of objects within a gravitational field, relative to their respective mass.


why doesn't gravity pull a ship to the bottom of the ocean while the planet spins @ 1000 mph?
Because the amount of water the ship would need to have moved out of the way in order to sink further into the water, weighs more than the ship does. Therefore it stays on the surface.

Poke a hole in it and add the weight of the water to the ship's weight, and the ship now weighs a sufficient amount to push enough water out of the way in order to allow gravity to pull it to the bottom of the sea.

The ship is no longer buoyant in water. Thus, it and the water reorder themselves until the ship encounters something more dense than itself.
Ie: the bottom.
...but plug the hole and put that same boat filled with water in an ocean of mercury, and it would float again.
 

BarnacleBob

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AYE!!

Hove to!!

The schooner's shifted leeward!!
Haul in the mainsail, set course for new tack!!
Mr King, get the men ready for boarding..

The Jolly Roger.gif
 
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Tbonz

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interesting video, just not buying it.

I can understand that there are a group of people out there that buy into this, and I'm not going to judge them.

what I will say, is that the likelihood of this being legit, about the same as Biden really getting 81 million votes.
 

AgBar

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Here is a question. Gravity is strong enough to keep a car on the ground, the oceans in place, why doesn't gravity pull a ship to the bottom of the ocean while the planet spins @ 1000 mph? Gravity should be stronger then buoyancy? Yet, anything lighter than air can float to the sky. Gravity must do billions of calculation per millisecond to keep some objects on the ground while allowing others to float away. Now, lets talk about weight.

The universe does not do "calculations per unit time", unless you get into the really weird crap at the Planck scales.

Cars don't fly off the surface because the centrifugal "force" due to rotation is far weaker than gravity. But it is still there. Atrillery officers have known for centuries that they need to correct for the Coriolis effect (a perceived force on flying objects, but it's really the projectile flying straight while earth moves under it)

Same deal with the roof over your head. The electromagnetic forces holding the material together are far stronger than gravity. Otherwise all structures would crumble into piles of sand,

Buoyancy is pressure is gravity. An aircraft carrier is mostly air. Its total density is less than that of water. So it floats on the water. Put more mass on the ship, it rides lower in the water. Too much mass, and down it goes. A balloon filled with your own lungs doesn't float. Fill it with helium or very hot air, and it becomes lighter than the outside air, and up it goes (until outside air is at the same pressure)! Fill a balloon with Xenon, and it drops to the floor, because it's heavier than the outside air. A chunk of steel will float in a pool of Mercury.

What about weight?
 

BarnacleBob

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Why Gravity on IS NOT a Force.

 

Joe King

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Why Gravity on IS NOT a Force.

That's what I posted nearly two years ago.

As for gravity, it is the effect that curved spacetime creates.
Mass curves spacetime and curved spacetime gives mass the effect we call gravity.
 

WillA2

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Primer Fields Theory.

Just adding to the mix.
 

BarnacleBob

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I'm neutral in this debate, as there is evidence to support both hypothesis & beliefs... Since it cannot be both, logically it therefore must be something else!!!

One person's viewpoint:

"Over the course of 500 years, using everything from books, magazines, and television to computer-generated imaging, a multigenerational conspiracy has succeeded, in the minds of the masses, to pick up the fixed Earth, shape it into a ball, spin it in circles, and throw it around the Sun !

In schools where every professor’s desk is adorned with a spinning Earth-globe, we are lectured on the “heliocentric” theory of the universe, shown images of ball-planets and videos of men suspended in space.

The illusion created, connivingly convincing, has entranced the world’s population into blindly believing a maleficent myth".

FB_IMG_1635525194983.jpg
 

mtnman

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Joe King

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there is evidence to support both hypothesis
No, there is not.

On one side is provable fact, and on the other, unprovable suppositions.

What's this so-called "evidence" of a flat Earth you speak of? Every bit of what's purported to be evidence is and has been thoroughly, and easily I might add, shown to be flat out wrong.
 

BarnacleBob

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No, there is not.

On one side is provable fact, and on the other, unprovable suppositions.

What's this so-called "evidence" of a flat Earth you speak of? Every bit of what's purported to be evidence is and has been thoroughly, and easily I might add, shown to be flat out wrong.

Maybe if you emerged out of your cocoon with an open mind you would see or observe what I am speaking of. Both of the cults of flat & round are indisputably just plain wrong.... !!!
 

Joe King

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Maybe if you emerged out of your cocoon with an open mind you would see or observe what I am speaking of. Both of the cults of flat & round are indisputably just plain wrong.... !!!
Bob, you're the one saying that there is in fact compelling evidence that the Earth might be flat. So post it already. It obviously must be something that hasn't been posted here before, because everything that has already been posted as supposed proof that the Earth is flat, has been thoroughly and completely shown to be wrong.
....and then the ones who provided said "evidence", mysteriously no longer wanna discuss their so-called "evidence".

So you must be sitting on some blockbuster info. Why won' t ya share it?
 

BarnacleBob

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Bob, you're the one saying that there is in fact compelling evidence that the Earth might be flat. So post it already. It obviously must be something that hasn't been posted here before, because everything that has already been posted as supposed proof that the Earth is flat, has been thoroughly and completely shown to be wrong.
....and then the ones who provided said "evidence", mysteriously no longer wanna discuss their so-called "evidence".

So you must be sitting on some blockbuster info. Why won' t ya share it?

You need to reread my statement, your assumptions are incorrect.
 

solarion

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All the globe believers have to do is demonstrate curved water and 100% of the flat Earthers will disappear overnight.

(Miles*Miles)*8 = expected drop due to curvature in inches on the surface of a spheroid 7917 miles in diameter. This should be easy for people that believe in globe science. Simply go prove that the surface of the ocean is curved in a manner consistent with the surface of a spheroid 24,901 miles in circumference. A mile marker on a buoy just 1 mile away must drop 8 inches. 2 miles away from an observer a buoy must drop 32 inches.

3 miles = 72"(6 feet)
4 miles = 128"(10.7 feet)
5 miles = 200"(16.7 feet)
6 miles = 288"(24 feet)
7 miles = 392"(32.7 feet)
8 miles = 512"(42.7 feet)
9 miles = 648"(54 feet)

10 miles of lake or ocean surface must vary by 798 inches(66.5 feet) end to end. So does it? Do these numbers match up with what we observe on Earth? Can one see objects 10 miles away over water?

The answer is...of course, absolutely yes, one can see objects well past 10 miles over water...despite the fact that said objects should be 66 feet under water from your perspective. How is it possible to see so far over water if the water is wrapped around the surface of a spinning space pear 25k miles in circumference?

All one gets from globe believers are ridicule and excuses where there should be concrete evidence backed up by mathematics. The maths are real simple here. Just prove the surface of lakes and oceans are convex.
 

BarnacleBob

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All the globe believers have to do is demonstrate curved water and 100% of the flat Earthers will disappear overnight.

(Miles*Miles)*8 = expected drop due to curvature in inches on the surface of a spheroid 7917 miles in diameter. This should be easy for people that believe in globe science. Simply go prove that the surface of the ocean is curved in a manner consistent with the surface of a spheroid 24,901 miles in circumference. A mile marker on a buoy just 1 mile away must drop 8 inches. 2 miles away from an observer a buoy must drop 32 inches.

3 miles = 72"(6 feet)
4 miles = 128"(10.7 feet)
5 miles = 200"(16.7 feet)
6 miles = 288"(24 feet)
7 miles = 392"(32.7 feet)
8 miles = 512"(42.7 feet)
9 miles = 648"(54 feet)

10 miles of lake or ocean surface must vary by 798 inches(66.5 feet) end to end. So does it? Do these numbers match up with what we observe on Earth? Can one see objects 10 miles away over water?

The answer is...of course, absolutely yes, one can see objects well past 10 miles over water...despite the fact that said objects should be 66 feet under water from your perspective. How is it possible to see so far over water if the water is wrapped around the surface of a spinning space pear 25k miles in circumference?

All one gets from globe believers are ridicule and excuses where there should be concrete evidence backed up by mathematics. The maths are real simple here. Just prove the surface of lakes and oceans are convex.

Ponts de Québec,Canada :de Neuville vers Québec,à partir de la marina,distance; 22.17 kilomètre ou 13.77 milles.

FB_IMG_1635574864614.jpg


FB_IMG_1635574870419.jpg
 

Joe King

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You need to reread my statement, your assumptions are incorrect.
Ok, fair enough.
Maybe if you emerged out of your cocoon with an open mind you would see or observe what I am speaking of.
How about I put it like this?

I would like to see and observe what you are speaking of, when you say that.....
there is evidence to support both hypothesis & beliefs..


There's zero evidence for one and overwhelming evidence for the other.
....but you say you've seen evidence. Presumably convincing evidence. Otherwise, you wouldn't believe it, right? So share what you've seen.



All the globe believers have to do is demonstrate curved water and 100% of the flat Earthers will disappear overnight.
You already did.
 

chieftain

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If it's not flat and it ain't a sphere, what the fuck is it?
 

arminius

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BarnacleBob

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If it's not flat and it ain't a sphere, what the fuck is it?

That's the real question, WTF is it really? There are attributes that seemingly evidence it is flat, while there are others that seemingly evidence it's spherical.... All of these evidences are freely available to anyone that investigates the subject matter....

The cult of spheres v the cult of flatness religions contain the debate to either/or and neither leave room to discuss other possibilities... both sides of the debate bring forth good arguments... Which keeps the debates interesting, but fails to provide any alternative hypothesis.
 

BarnacleBob

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Again, I do not support either hypothesis, round or flat....

Flat Earth arguments:

  • Eratosthenes' calculation shows that the Sun is 4000 miles over a flat Earth.
  • Plumb bobs point to the center of a spherical Earth, so buildings would be wider at the top than at the bottom.
  • Einstein said that gravity bends light, so the reason that a ship on the horizon disappears hull first and mast last is because the Earth's gravity is bending the light rays from the hull into the ocean before they reach our eyes.
  • The equatorial speed of the Earth is about 1000 miles per hour; this is faster than the speed of sound, so someone standing east of you would never be able to hear you.
  • A merry-go-round moves at about 10 mph and you get dizzy; the Earth supposedly moves at 1000 mph and you don't notice this.
  • If the Earth were spinning, all the continents would move toward the equator.
  • When you look at pictures of the round Earth taken from space, you must remember that gravity bends light so straight objects appear curved and curved objects appear straight.
 

Bottom Feeder

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If the Earth is flat, then what is on its 'underside'?

No matter which evidence you bring up, it can — and routinely will be by a Flat-Earther — refuted using a counter-argument along the lines of "You believe so because that's what you were taught". Unless you want to derive all of geometry, carry out all physical experiments through the history of mankind, etc., in front of the FE'er, every argument you can bring up ultimately hinges on your faith in other people's mathematical derivations and physical experiments, which, in the eyes of the FE'er, are flawed and/or deliberately altered. They cherry pick whatever experiment remotely seems to confirm their idea, and they disregard all evidence not confirming their idea as flawed/faked.

Russell's teapot

Flat Earth Lunar eclipse —

Flat Earth Eclipse.jpg

I'll wait for it.
<heh>
BF
 

BarnacleBob

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If the Earth is flat, then what is on its 'underside'?

No matter which evidence you bring up, it can — and routinely will be by a Flat-Earther — refuted using a counter-argument along the lines of "You believe so because that's what you were taught". Unless you want to derive all of geometry, carry out all physical experiments through the history of mankind, etc., in front of the FE'er, every argument you can bring up ultimately hinges on your faith in other people's mathematical derivations and physical experiments, which, in the eyes of the FE'er, are flawed and/or deliberately altered. They cherry pick whatever experiment remotely seems to confirm their idea, and they disregard all evidence not confirming their idea as flawed/faked.

Russell's teapot

Flat Earth Lunar eclipse —


I'll wait for it.
<heh>
BF
The cult of the sphere have some splaining to do!

 

newmisty

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Just farkin painful. I can't.
 

solarion

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If this is the shape of Earth, then how hard is it to prove any of it?

1) Is the Earth surrounded by vacuum...without a container? Does that exist anywhere in nature that you can observe? Would you buy pressurized propane without bringing along a container or being provided with one? Why not?

2) Have you ever seen water stick to the outside of a spinning spheroid? Can you demonstrate that happening?

3) How do you know the Earth's core is hotter than the surface of the sun? Has anyone ever proven it? For that matter, how do we know the core of Earth is made of iron/nickel? The excuse about the magnetic shield being generated by a rotating iron/nickel core has long since been debunked...liquid iron is paramagnetic.

1635612511524.png


Everything you think you know about the shape of Earth is an unproven theory tale that cannot be observed or demonstrated. It's merely a belief structure pounded into a young trusting mind.
 

Bottom Feeder

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Have you ever seen water stick to the outside of a spinning spheroid? Can you demonstrate that happening?
At what rpm?
Sticks pretty well at 1/1440 RPM, now wouldn't it? (neglecting the effect of "gravity" which might cause it to drip off)

Have you ever had a vacuum pulled on a container? Say a container about 1,000 sq feet — when you open that container to atmosphere (air) the air rushes inside to fill the vacuum, right? Well what's causing our atmosphere to stick around and not rush off to fill the vacuum? We live in a bubble?


BF
 
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solarion

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At what rpm?
Seemingly 1 per 24 hours according to mainstream science. We all think we know this because the sun comes up once a day. Any actual proof that the Earth is spinning on an invisible "axis"? Well no...of course not. All a human on Earth can obverse is the apparent motion of the sun, moon, and stars. Ask them how they know they're moving and not the sun, moon, and stars and they'll probably cite an elementary teacher's babble. IOW a belief structure.

Centripetal forces do not care about RPMs btw. What matters on the exterior of a spheroid that's spinning is how rapidly it's rotating on the surface. That maths is also quite simple.

24901 / 24 = 1037(MPH) at the equator. The speed at which the alleged core of Earth is allegedly spinning is 100% meaningless...unless of course you happen to vacation there? I do see why globe proponents like the RPM non-argument however...since 1 < 1037. The non-argument falls apart real quick when confronted with logic however.
Well what's causing our atmosphere to stick around and not rush off to fill the vacuum?
Mainstream science says "gravity", though as usual they cannot prove it...and neither can you or I. I don't pretend to know *IF* there's a container to allow for air pressure, I know only that gas pressure does not exist in the absence of a container.
 

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solarion

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That's actually untrue. One can build an experiment that rotates a water covered spheroid. Provided the exterior surface of said spheroid is rotating at the equivalent of 1037.54mph(to scale) then that experiment would then mimic the alleged rotation of Earth. We both know the water wouldn't stick though.

The excuse will, of course, be that one cannot apply the "force" that's also not a "force" called gravity and that's why one can neither prove or disprove the shape of Earth in this manner. IOW ignore scientific experiment and accept what you're told as gospel. IE faith.

...and again, the surface of Earth is directly under your feet. Does it demonstrate convexity in a manner consistent with the exterior surface of a spheroid 7917 miles in diameter? It's important because anyone can look into this. People have been doing this for centuries btw. Remember, up until Copernicus' nonsense was released in 1543, mainstream science believed the Earth to be flat...and to say otherwise was blasphemy. Go read Mikolaj Kopernik's allegedly "groundbreaking" work(De Revolutionibus). It's entirely unimpressive.

Also, the laws of thermodynamics are well known and readily confirmed. They must however be ignored to believe in the spheroid Earth model.

There is no observable example of gas pressure existing in the absence of a container anywhere in nature, but we're all told it happens anyway. ...just don't expect anyone to demonstrate it anytime soon...instead take it on faith that the department of education wouldn't lie to you.
 

newmisty

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...
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newmisty

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There is no observable example of gas pressure existing in the absence of a container anywhere in nature, but we're all told it happens anyway. ...just don't expect anyone to demonstrate it anytime soon...instead take it on faith that the department of education wouldn't lie to you.
Sol,
Let's take a moment to step back from your thinking and look a bit more broadly. You say there is no observable example of this gas pressure not existing within a container, yet you're exactly living such an example right now, lest there be a container so large that is unobservable with modern means. In either case, you cannot just casually dismiss these data points as possibilities.

Aren't your base points in thinking and the science uses in the arguments you're making also based on a scholastically obtained framework of knowledge? The same that what was taught in the same school along with spheroid based Earth Sciences?

The Science taught and experienced on Earth, and all the thermodynamics there within, that have been "proven and accepted" etc, are still only within the scope of pur current civilizations limited means.