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WHAT IF the Earth was Actually Flat?

Bottom Feeder

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As we approach Winter solstice (December 21) the daylight hours get shorter and shorter. In the northern hemisphere, that is.
But in the southern hemisphere the daylight hours get longer.
How do you reconcile this with the flat earth narrative?

BF
 

solarion

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Generally speaking...and as I understand it, flat Earth theory calls for a small "local" sun that makes circles around a centralized "North pole". These circles vary in diameter resulting in the changes we observe between the equinoxes.

I hope I've described mainstream flat Earth theory correctly, but I don't spend a great deal of time with it...preferring instead to stick with things I can prove/disprove. Though problematic in a couple ways, I personally find it at least as plausible as the silly(and unprovable) notion that Earth is nearer the sun during winter(somewhere on its surface), but that an alleged "tilting" of the make believe "axis" accounts for the seasons we observe.

Neither explanation is provable or disprovable...and therefore not scientific. Yet, the vast majority believe one to be fact anyway.

All of these concepts have been discussed here over and over...yet we never seem to focus on what can be proven/disproven by anyone at any time. ...likely because such conversations reflect poorly upon ball Earth theory...which requires suspension of observable reality to accept.

Prove Earth tilts 23.5 degrees...and therefore the seasons can potentially exist for the reasons mainstream cosmology asserts. ...yeah they'll get back to us on that...just like they'll get back to us on explaining the varying axial tilts of every single planet in the sol-ar system. Problems are simply ignored in the model.
 

Bottom Feeder

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What about the axial tilts of the other planets? We can observe them.

Axial Tilt.JPG
 

solarion

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The gravitational accretion nonsense alleges that the planets were created from a flat rotating disc of dust and gas. There's a reason why we don't spend a lot of time discussing the so called "orbital plane".

...and btw, I've observed the planets myself, and they look nothing like those "images". Cosmological models consisting of a mythical uni-directional "force"(not force) that behaves as we're told is an unworkable fairy tale that doesn't just violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics, but makes a mockery of it.

Uni-directional gravitational fairy tale models, generally speaking, fail very quickly when more than two objects are considered. For instance, newtonian gravitational theory would model many times more "force" being applied to Earth's moon than that exerted by the Earth itself.
 

WillA2

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Generally speaking...and as I understand it, flat Earth theory calls for a small "local" sun that makes circles around a centralized "North pole". These circles vary in diameter resulting in the changes we observe between the equinoxes.

I hope I've described mainstream flat Earth theory correctly, but I don't spend a great deal of time with it...preferring instead to stick with things I can prove/disprove. Though problematic in a couple ways, I personally find it at least as plausible as the silly(and unprovable) notion that Earth is nearer the sun during winter(somewhere on its surface), but that an alleged "tilting" of the make believe "axis" accounts for the seasons we observe.

Neither explanation is provable or disprovable...and therefore not scientific. Yet, the vast majority believe one to be fact anyway.

All of these concepts have been discussed here over and over...yet we never seem to focus on what can be proven/disproven by anyone at any time. ...likely because such conversations reflect poorly upon ball Earth theory...which requires suspension of observable reality to accept.

Prove Earth tilts 23.5 degrees...and therefore the seasons can potentially exist for the reasons mainstream cosmology asserts. ...yeah they'll get back to us on that...just like they'll get back to us on explaining the varying axial tilts of every single planet in the sol-ar system. Problems are simply ignored in the model.

And the equatorial region stays warm all year long because...?
 

WillA2

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Primer Fields Theory explains a lot.
 

solarion

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And the equatorial region stays warm all year long because...?
Presumably because the sun never moves far enough from center during its rotations to cause significant cooling. I couldn't tell you with any certainty, as, like every other human ever, I've also never been to the sun. I personally have issues with both models, yet only one model(ball Earth) is provably wrong.

Spheroids require surface curvature. 72% of the surface being a "flat spot" = no pear shape.
 

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Tilt a whirl'd


Earth axis tilt of 23.4°

23.4°-90° = 66.6°

iu
 

solarion

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By boat? lol

1636481731556.png
 

BarnacleBob

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Proving the Sun Rotates Over a Flat Earth - Must See Evidence by Corey Kell

 

Silvergun

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Voodoo

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Sounds like you're hinting at electric universe theory. As an alternative to mainstream gravitational theory, it certainly makes a whole lot more sense. Perhaps if more people stopped believing they "knew" a bunch of stuff about gravity that they don't then we could have more useful conversations about the phenomenon we all call "gravity".

Electricity pushes and pulls and is a whole lot more powerful than the ridiculously wimpy "force/warpage" that is mainstream gravitational theory. In the history of humanity, we've found only one way to generate a significant magnetic field. ...electricity.

The electric Universe theory seems to be what Clif High describes. I have not really come across the basic theory of this account, do you have a link to the basic theory?
 

WillA2

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Silvergun

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They traveled many more nautical miles than they even knew. Whew!

Huh?

I don't understand the point you and Ensoniq are trying to make. We are debating on what the earth is and a map was provided that cuts the Atlantic in half showing it on each side of the map. Why would they go the route drawn when they could just go from one side to the other? What does this prove at all?

Did you see what Solarian posted? A similar map to the one the UN uses and the one Kennedys cabinet had on air force one. That world map that Ensoniq posted is known to manipulate the size of certain continents. There's actually quite a few documentaries on this subject. TPTB adjusted the size of various continents as a way for our minds to believe one was more powerful or easier to strip of their natural resources or because they consisted of people TPTB didn't think were desirable to society. This is mostly seen in the size of Africa and Greenland. For example Africa is listed as being 11,730,000 sq mi and Greenland as 836,330 sq mi according to Wikipedia. Yet, when you look at traditional maps (the one posted by Ensoniq) that most people would recognize from their school experience it shows as Greenland being as larger or larger than Africa. Why?

It doesn't really matter why. What matters is they have established a precedent of lying about the earth, the sizes and shapes of continents, maps, etc.

P.S. I make maps for a living.

iu
 

solarion

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We are debating on what the earth is and a map was provided that cuts the Atlantic in half showing it on each side of the map.
It's called a mercator projection and it's like taking a globe Earth model...pretending it's a cylinder then simply unrolling it. It makes a mess of continent sizes...particularly away from the equator. Here it's being used as a kind of a joke...at least that's how I took it.
I have not really come across the basic theory of this account, do you have a link to the basic theory?
I'd recommend the thunderbolt project website as a starting point. David Talbott and Wallace Thornhill have raised some fascinating questions about the way our cosmos functions. Warning! Though interesting...it's quite a rabbit hole to go down.


There's a bunch of content there about "origins of an alien sky"...which seems to be mostly Talbott's stuff. I found the content to be absolutely fascinating.


I recall watching potions of alien sky videos where they were discussing damage caused to the surfaces of both Earth and Mars by massive electrical discharges which Talbott suggests is the source of much of our own ancient mythology(polytheism).

1636497392428.png


Electrical discharge? Valles Marineris makes the grand canyon look like a drainage ditch.
 
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WillA2

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Huh?

I don't understand the point you and Ensoniq are trying to make. We are debating on what the earth is and a map was provided that cuts the Atlantic in half showing it on each side of the map. Why would they go the route drawn when they could just go from one side to the other? What does this prove at all?

Did you see what Solarian posted? A similar map to the one the UN uses and the one Kennedys cabinet had on air force one. That world map that Ensoniq posted is known to manipulate the size of certain continents. There's actually quite a few documentaries on this subject. TPTB adjusted the size of various continents as a way for our minds to believe one was more powerful or easier to strip of their natural resources or because they consisted of people TPTB didn't think were desirable to society. This is mostly seen in the size of Africa and Greenland. For example Africa is listed as being 11,730,000 sq mi and Greenland as 836,330 sq mi according to Wikipedia. Yet, when you look at traditional maps (the one posted by Ensoniq) that most people would recognize from their school experience it shows as Greenland being as larger or larger than Africa. Why?

It doesn't really matter why. What matters is they have established a precedent of lying about the earth, the sizes and shapes of continents, maps, etc.

P.S. I make maps for a living.

iu

A bit of a ribbing to the Flat Earth guys.

:beer:
 

Ensoniq

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Huh?

I don't understand the point you and Ensoniq are trying to make. We are debating on what the earth is and a map was provided that cuts the Atlantic in half showing it on each side of the map. Why would they go the route drawn when they could just go from one side to the other? What does this prove at all?

I was just joking around because I stumbled across that graphic joke and saw this thread.

No offense intended and no serious point behind my post
 

Mujahideen

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Generally speaking...and as I understand it, flat Earth theory calls for a small "local" sun that makes circles around a centralized "North pole". These circles vary in diameter resulting in the changes we observe between the equinoxes.

how do you explain the daylight patterns?

6BBBEDB5-82A9-4638-9AE1-76A3DE48A5EE.jpeg
 

hardmoney

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Avalon

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My daughter said she was listening in my granddaughter and her friends conversation while they were playing on the swing set. They are both 11. She said the subject was how flat earthers were funny and they were sure the world was round. Where the heck do 11 years old hear about flat earthers.
 

solarion

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how do you explain the daylight patterns?

View attachment 231707
*I* don't often attempt to explain the sun's motion at all. From my own perspective, it appears to "rise" in the East and "set" in the West. Now if your question is "how do flat Earthers explain daylight patterns", then I could take a stab at that...

Such an explanation would certainly not begin with a mercator projection(ironically a flat map created from a warped spheroid) as you've posted, but rather an azimuthal equidistant projection...such as the one used by the US geological survey.

1636561947342.png


The red circle being the equator...should make it pretty clear how such a model would be possible, particularly in the context of a "small" and "local" sun...as flat Earth proponents believe.

Sol, in Australia, reaching for another beer —

View attachment 231725

That would be illustrative of ANYONE in Australia relative to ANYONE in the US according to globe proponents...just like the afore mentioned upside down helicopters.
 

Mujahideen

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The red circle being the equator...should make it pretty clear how such a model would be possible, particularly in the context of a "small" and "local" sun...as flat Earth proponents believe.

it doesn’t.

can you elaborate?

what are the light patterns on a ‘flat earth’? Are there any representations of it?
 

solarion

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My daughter said she was listening in my granddaughter and her friends conversation while they were playing on the swing set. They are both 11. She said the subject was how flat earthers were funny and they were sure the world was round. Where the heck do 11 years old hear about flat earthers.
Guessing...history class? Prior to 5 centuries ago nearly everybody "knew" the Earth was flat...and so called "round" Earthers were ridiculed.

A better question might be...why do they believe Earth to be a spheroid. Have they ever seen any proof...aside from NASA.gov sci-fi? Have they ever seen any evidence that would lead one to conclude the surface of Earth's lakes and oceans are anything other than flat? I haven't and I'm 53.

it doesn’t.

can you elaborate?
I don't know how. I've explained the map, the model, and the motions in this thread. You can actually build a physical model to aid your understanding more thoroughly...unlike the gas covered spinning space water-fruit theory...which cannot be physically modeled.
 

solarion

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Does this help? As is the case 100% of the time, the ball Earthers cite gumbymint sources as their only "evidence". "We have satellites ...we have so called space/time travellers...etc."

Where's the measurement of the convexity of the surface of Earth's oceans? Where's the working ball Earth model? Pity the entire ball Earth theory hinges upon a provably wrong theory...called gravity. It's really a massive weakness unresolved in over 500 years of research. I've never spoken to anyone that believes NASA is legitimate that questions the ball Earth theory.

I find it beyond amusing that, in the video above, a scientist and a journalist both express frustration that anyone would question "science". The scientist even includes the arrogant(and dangerous) notion that the word of scientists should be beyond question. They call this "dangerous" and a return to the "dark age", without ever seemingly recognizing that science(knowledge)...real science REQUIRES people to be skeptical. Were there not skepticism, then everyone would still "know" that Earth is flat and motionless, yet they seem completely oblivious to the fact that the term "settled science" is an oxymoron.
 
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Avalon

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Guessing...history class? Prior to 5 centuries ago nearly everybody "knew" the Earth was flat...and so called "round" Earthers were ridiculed.

A better question might be...why do they believe Earth to be a spheroid. Have they ever seen any proof...aside from NASA.gov sci-fi? Have they ever seen any evidence that would lead one to conclude the surface of Earth's lakes and oceans are anything other than flat? I haven't and I'm 53.


I don't know how. I've explained the map, the model, and the motions in this thread. You can actually build a physical model to aid your understanding more thoroughly...unlike the gas covered spinning space water-fruit theory...which cannot be physically modeled.
I don't know? :don't know: At this point we are just trying to keep up with why she asked if she was pansexual one day after school. We have to check the school libraries for kid porn so we have not looked at the flat earth stuff yet. Maybe it would be nice diversion though.
 
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Mujahideen

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appears to "rise" in the East and "set" in the West.

with the UN map you can clearly see the distortion the further south you go.

You can not accurately represent sunlight patterns and match them with their correct real times using a UN map.

you can only do this on a globe or a map that represents a globe.
 

solarion

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I don't know? :don't know: At this point we are just trying to keep with why she asked if she was pansexual one day after school. We have to check the school libraries for kid porn so we have not looked at the flat earth stuff yet. Maybe it would be nice diversion though.
Pansexual...as I understand it, is merely a woke-ist revision to the concept of bi-sexuality. It's simply about preferences...or in this case the lack thereof. There's nothing scientific there, and frankly I think 99% of this alleged gender dysphoria and sexual preference confusion is merely about every child being taught that they're automatically "speshul, unique, magical, and empowered" merely by virtue of their existence, only to find out as they get older that they're merely one of 7.7b likewise "speshul, unique, magical, and empowered" individuals. That their own actions are what make them stand out...so they're attempting to call attention to themselves by whatever means are available.

with the UN map you can clearly see the distortion the further south you go.

You can not accurately represent sunlight patterns and match them with their correct real times using a UN map.

you can only do this on a globe or a map that represents a globe.
So you're saying that one must accept that the Earth is a globe(which cannot be physically modeled) to account for that which one observes with their own eyes? I disagree that one must accept that Earth is a water covered space pear spinning in a vacuum and hurtling around an allegedly giant thermo-nuclear fusion reactor 93m miles away at 1.8m mph to explain what one observes by watching sunrise and sunset.
 
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Mujahideen

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So you're saying that one must accept that the Earth is a globe(which cannot be physically modeled) to account for that which one observes with their own eyes? I disagree that one must accept that Earth is a water covered space pear spinning in a vacuum and hurtling around an allegedly giant thermo-nuclear fusion reactor 93m miles away at 1.8m mph to explain what one observes by watching sunrise and sunset.

I’m saying the UN map representation of earth has to be false on account of it not being able to be used as an accurate model for sunlight patterns.

And it appears that the only way the real time patterns make sense is on a globe model or a map that represents the globe.

if there is a flat earth representation that acutely depicts real time sunlight patterns, let’s see it. It shouldn’t be hard to do. The sun is out everyday.
 

Bigjon

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Pansexual...as I understand it, is merely a woke-ist revision to the concept of bi-sexuality. It's simply about preferences...or in this case the lack thereof. There's nothing scientific there, and frankly I think 99% of this alleged gender dysphoria and sexual preference confusion is merely about every child being taught that they're automatically "speshul, unique, magical, and empowered" merely by virtue of their existence, only to find out as they get older that they're merely one of 7.7b likewise "speshul, unique, magical, and empowered" individuals. That their own actions are what make them stand out...so they're attempting to call attention to themselves by whatever means are available.


So you're saying that one must accept that the Earth is a globe(which cannot be physically modeled) to account for that which one observes with their own eyes? I disagree that one must accept that Earth is a water covered space pear spinning in a vacuum and hurtling around an allegedly giant thermo-nuclear fusion reactor 93m miles away at 1.8m mph to explain what one observes by watching sunrise and sunset.

All motion is relative.

Is the earth spinning relative to its own axis or is the universe spinning relative to the earth?
 

solarion

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What "axis" is that? What "spin" are you referring to? The relativity gibberish is just an excuse to ignore what we see with our own eyes. Hell...it was even used as an excuse to dismiss the most famous experiment in history that concluded the Earth is motionless while attempting to prove the Earth is moving.

"Gravity exists...therefore..." Uh no, that's a non-scientific argument. If a helicopter were flying over NY city... and were suddenly teleported to Sydney Australia...it'd be UPSIDE DOWN according to the pear Earth model. That's a simple fact...there's nothing "relative" about it.

Speshul relativity simply(and wrongly) says that one cannot know if they are in motion or if their surrounding are...which CAN be true. Unfortunately(or fortunately depending on perspective) special relativity has a gaping hole in it. There ARE ways to determine whether one is in motion and/or if one's surroundings are in motion...as evidenced by the twin paradox.

Observable reality says that the Mississippi river flows up hill for 2,350 miles...as long as one believes the river is plastered to the Northern hemisphere of a giant spheroid 7917 miles in diameter. How is that "relative"? ...uh gravity is it? lol
 

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Sol, in Australia, reaching for another beer —

Funny.

Since we can go out into "space" I would love to see a video of the so called blue marble and them slowly zoom in on the bottom of the plane(t) and see ships sailing upside down on the ocean. That's what we believe, correct?
 

solarion

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if there is a flat earth representation that acutely depicts real time sunlight patterns, let’s see it. It shouldn’t be hard to do. The sun is out everyday.
So in other words, you're assigning me homework. Uh no...go look into it yourself if you're worried about it. You're welcome to believe you're on a gas covered spinning mud ball aimlessly hurtling through the cosmos if you like. I won't think less of you for it. I explained the model, and I posted a video already of a guy that built a physical model of his interpretation of flat Earth. I don't know what else to tell you.

Funny.

Since we can go out into "space" I would love to see a video of the so called blue marble and them slowly zoom in on the bottom of the plane(t) and see ships sailing upside down on the ocean. That's what we believe, correct?
Yes, but like live continuous feeds of the Earth from the moon, somehow that stuff is just too damn hard. Even pointing a freaking video camera at Earth when there were allegedly video cameras on the moon, was just too much trouble. Who *TF* would want to see the Earth from another planet after all...when we can see several videos of fake liftoffs of fake lunar modules. Instead we get obvious CGI crap sci-fi from a non-electrically grounded 120kw so called "space station" as it allegedly "falls" continuously around Earth at 17k mph.

"We're on our way Houston!" GTFO
 

Mujahideen

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So in other words, you're assigning me homework. Uh no...go look into it yourself if you're worried about it. You're welcome to believe you're on a gas covered spinning mud ball aimlessly hurtling through the cosmos if you like. I won't think less of you for it. I explained the model, and I posted a video already of a guy that built a physical model of his interpretation of flat Earth. I don't know what else to tell you.

Your explanation made no sense. It was just a UN flag with a red circle. Nothing about sunlight patterns.

it’s math we are talking about here, not opinions. The times the sun rises in the south on a UN map won’t make any sense. The UN style map has to be wrong.

I don’t know about how far away the sun is or how fast the earth is moving. All I’m saying is the UN flag/map is wrong and no one can prove it right by depicting real time sunlight patterns.
 
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Mujahideen

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is this not accurate?

@solarion