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What is the Least-Likely-Counterfeited Gold Unit?

Casey Jones

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#1
I haven't got my Free Money from Uncle Sugar yet...but when I do, it goes right into a gold coin.

Trouble is, it's been awhile since I've bought any. Chin counterfeits abound.

I know...all the tools to identify counterfeits. But I'm not a buyer these days - I'm a stacker. I bought years ago, when counterfeiting was unheard of.

I'm going to be buying from a guy I know, in town. He's sold me gold before, but not recently. More recently, I have sold.

I want to buy back.

Which is the safest way, given that I'm depending on HIS tests, done in front of me? K-rand, Canadian Mint, American Eagle? Gold one-oz bar with a serial on it?
 

oldgaranddad

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#3
Any of the foreign issues the Franklin Mint was contracted to mint for, the Bahamas, Caribbean Islands, Pacific Islands, and some African countries. Too small of a pool for the Chinese to focus on to counterfeit. Not saying there aren't any but the odds are in your favor.
 

Casey Jones

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#5
I want a straight ounce. In a denomination that people are comfortable with; or else a bar that gives confidence.

I sold a few Kitco bars, still in the packaging, some months back (pay my taxes) - I didn't get quite as much as the shop was paying for a K-rand, but he didn't hesitate for a second. Had a serial stamped right on the face of it.

Apparently that was a sweet spot - not common enough to suspect counterfeiting, but Kitko's products have a rep. He perfunctorialy tested it and handed over the payment.

But I'm getting $2k (I think of it as a refund of last year's tax bill) and I don't immediately need it. Into the stacks! By the ounce.
 

gliddenralston

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#6
Don't forget your magnet, calipers, scale and loupe. Bring a genuine coin of the one your planning on purchasing if possible, if not, know the specs, trust no one. I maybe a little paranoid when purchasing gold.
 

oldgaranddad

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#7
I want a straight ounce. In a denomination that people are comfortable with; or else a bar that gives confidence.

I sold a few Kitco bars, still in the packaging, some months back (pay my taxes) - I didn't get quite as much as the shop was paying for a K-rand, but he didn't hesitate for a second. Had a serial stamped right on the face of it.

Apparently that was a sweet spot - not common enough to suspect counterfeiting, but Kitko's products have a rep. He perfunctorialy tested it and handed over the payment.

But I'm getting $2k (I think of it as a refund of last year's tax bill) and I don't immediately need it. Into the stacks! By the ounce.
Try some of the issues from the Scottsdale Mint. They took up where the Franklin Mint left off. https://www.scottsdalemint.com/shop/?swoof=1&product_cat=gold&pa_style=rounds You can buy direct or via eBay. Not much collectability value but at least you know you are getting the real thing that is actual currency.
 

Casey Jones

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#8
Don't forget your magnet, calipers, scale and loupe. Bring a genuine coin of the one your planning on purchasing if possible, if not, know the specs, trust no one. I maybe a little paranoid when purchasing gold.
Sadly, I have none of that. When I started buying, counterfeiting gold was unheard of. Not worth the effort, at $600/oz. Nor was China on any sort of ascension.

Realistically, it makes little sense now. I live on a small pension and as inflation erodes its value, I'll have to sell gold a little at a time to afford the occasional treat.

Given my family history and my own health, I figure on hitting the tape at about age 70. Seven years...so, it is what it is. But unless I get into actual gold trading, buying that equipment is pointless.
 

Casey Jones

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#9
The Scottsdale link is interesting. Maybe it's time to diversify?...buy 10-oz loafs of silver instead?

I have some scrap rounds, but probably not nearly enough.
 

gliddenralston

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#10
Understand... you'll have to go with, reputable. Good luck.
 

Ebie

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#11
American gold eagle.
There are 2 theoretical types of counterfeit:
1) mismatch in size and/or weight/quality
2) match in size/weight/quality
I have not read of any AGE counterfeits of the the 2nd type.
 

oldgaranddad

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#12
Sadly, I have none of that. When I started buying, counterfeiting gold was unheard of. Not worth the effort, at $600/oz. Nor was China on any sort of ascension.

Realistically, it makes little sense now. I live on a small pension and as inflation erodes its value, I'll have to sell gold a little at a time to afford the occasional treat.

Given my family history and my own health, I figure on hitting the tape at about age 70. Seven years...so, it is what it is. But unless I get into actual gold trading, buying that equipment is pointless.
Cheap but accurate calipers and loupes can be had on eBay.

The advantage of Scottsdale is many of their coins come encapsulated with access to a phone app to read the QR code and serial number combination on the encapsulation card to authenticate the coin.
 

Casey Jones

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#13
American gold eagle.
There are 2 theoretical types of counterfeit:
1) mismatch in size and/or weight/quality
2) match in size/weight/quality
I have not read of any AGE counterfeits of the the 2nd type.

That's what I'm looking to learn.

My vendor seems to be a straight-shooter. He's been there a long time - father and son business. He remembers regular customers - I got IDd the first couple of times I was in there; now, even though I'm not regular, he just acknowledges me. Money for gold or product for money.

He has all the tests. If he gets far enough with an Eagle that he's confident in selling it, in sealed plastic with his business name on it...and does the ultrasonic test in front of the buyer...what I hear you say is, it's probably a low-risk purchase.
 

Tbonz

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#14
How are the standard companies online? Any real fear of getting fakes through these guys?

APMEX

JM Bullion

Provident

Kitco

Can't remember the one that Irons suggested a long while back, bought some sovereigns from, lost in a horrible boating accident.
 

Unca Walt

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#15
The Scottsdale link is interesting. Maybe it's time to diversify?...buy 10-oz loafs of silver instead?

I have some scrap rounds, but probably not nearly enough.
10-oz silver ain't all that handy. I've got some of them for semi-large, but not K-rand size purchases.

My fave has always been K-rands. The best thing is to have a reputable LCD like you have. I've used the same guy for a quarter-century or more.

If you have a dealer who has been in situ for a decade or two, that is a safe place to buy without having a bunch of equipment.

Nevertheless, there is a cheap, Fitty-Dollah tester to catch tungsten fakes. It uses the magnetic properties of SAE and K-rands to determine if there is tungsten present:

https://www.amazon.com/Large-Gold-T...oin+tester&qid=1610314983&sr=8-12&tag=mh0b-20

1610315329011.png


You'll blow fitty bucks on hamburgers this week, and poop them all out. Get this gadget and lose some fat.
 

nowon

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#16
The newer Canadian gold maple leafs have some pretty good safety features IMHO
  • Radial line background was precisely machined by the Royal Canadian Mint onto their master die to create a unique light diffracting pattern, providing another measure of security.
  • Reverse: Features a large, single maple leaf with the weight and purity. A new micro-engraved maple leaf privy mark shows a “21” when viewed under magnification.
Also suggest taking a look at https://www.fakebullion.com/ for good info on how to identify counterfeit coins
 

Casey Jones

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#17
You'll blow fitty bucks on hamburgers this week, and poop them all out. Get this gadget and lose some fat.
Not this boy. If you knew what I'm living on...you lose more in your car seat, in the crack, than I draw.

It's okay. I was introduced to Minimalism, as a concept, many years ago. I had many more years to slowly acclimate to it. Now I've pulled in my horns...old cars (multiple) and small apartment (but pleasant) and bills paid.

Oh, yeah. In this Age of Beer Cooties, I do my own cooking. I have not had a McClown burger in about five years. Haven't had a Five Guys burger in 18 months. Used to buy Albertson's or Wally World fried chicken - but now, too often it tastes rancid.

I just finished deep-frying three meal's worth of chicken, last me this week. That and three steaks I got, the same time...yesterday, ate one; put the other two on ice. Got them half price since they were about to reach the magic Expiry Date.

Living small can be FUN. I read of people with their expensive, mortgaged cars, in drive-in lanes to the Food Banks...I don't laugh, but I smirk a bit. Not happening to me...

The money I put into stacks? It's increased 80 percent this last twelve months. Even my (ridiculously small) IRA (last one left) hadn't done that, not even with the QE-Infinity.

It may come down to, what my guy has on his shelf. K-rand or Eagle, both are likely good.

He will test his own product in front of buyers - he's not the slightest put-out on that request. Maybe I'm too trusting, but between what's said here, it seems the risk is low.
 

Bottom Feeder

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#18
Nice, tiny bits — screw the premium, it will be worth it in the end.
1/10th GAEs fifty in a tube.

JMSO,
BF
 

rbh110

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#19
I think Perth Mint issues are generally more difficult to fake than Eagles/KRand/etc.
Most of their gold issues feature several 'textures' or finishes on the coins. They often have a section that kind of has a frosted appearance, other sections have a normal finish and other elements in design have a highly-polished finish.
 

Buck

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#20
shop for anything cheap inside a plastic certified tomb...crack it out and it's all yours

the lower the grade, the cheaper the price

who cares about the grade, it's the authenticity you're getting, comfort

and then, play with it, like a cat with a toy on a string, look at it, bounce it off the ground a few times, then cut it open, don't cut off your finger or put out an eye, otherwise, all 'savings' will be gone courtesy of an ER bill

have fun
 

RebelYell

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#21
Sadly, I have none of that. When I started buying, counterfeiting gold was unheard of. Not worth the effort, at $600/oz. Nor was China on any sort of ascension.

Realistically, it makes little sense now. I live on a small pension and as inflation erodes its value, I'll have to sell gold a little at a time to afford the occasional treat.

Given my family history and my own health, I figure on hitting the tape at about age 70. Seven years...so, it is what it is. But unless I get into actual gold trading, buying that equipment is pointless.
You can get a magnet, calipers and scale for less than $50 total. I'm not sure what a loupe is.
 

Unca Walt

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#22
You can get a magnet, calipers and scale for less than $50 total. I'm not sure what a loupe is.
Compact magnifying glass. 10X/20X/50x Under twenny bucks.

1610393091799.png
 

ToBeSelfEvident

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#23
What about gold Buffalos? It's hard to fake the density of .999 gold, or the softness. Also should not react to any acid test.
 

Casey Jones

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#24
Compact magnifying glass. 10X/20X/50x Under twenny bucks.

View attachment 197613
Good to know, but only if you know what you're looking for.

How does a magnet work? Is gold non-magnetic, or tungsten? How's that work?

...I'm revealing my ignorance, here...
 

Casey Jones

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#25
shop for anything cheap inside a plastic certified tomb...crack it out and it's all yours

the lower the grade, the cheaper the price

who cares about the grade, it's the authenticity you're getting, comfort

and then, play with it, like a cat with a toy on a string, look at it, bounce it off the ground a few times, then cut it open, don't cut off your finger or put out an eye, otherwise, all 'savings' will be gone courtesy of an ER bill

have fun
The plastic sealing is a dead giveaway. The Walmart packaging was a tipoff to the first generation of frauds.

Now the chins are getting better.
 

Unca Walt

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#26
Casey: Here is yer Unca with the quickest and dirtiest -- and effective -- cheapo test for tungsten-filled gold...

Tungsten is para-magnetic. <-- Fancy engineer talk for "sorta attracted" by a magnet. Gold ain't nuffing magnetic atall.

Put your coin on something that floats easily -- like a small chunk of styrofoam in a dish of water. Spend a whole fargin dollar and get a neodynium magnet. You can get a 100 of them for $14.99

1610460448797.png


Hold the magnet close to the floating-on-styrofoam coin/bar. If the little boat drifts over to the magnet, you have a problem.

If not, not.

Simple and easy.

If you cannot afford water, styrofoam, and a dish... or you have a 50-oz bar of gold, there is even a simpler way:

Put the neodynium magnet ON the coin. Tilt the coin. If the magnet stays on... Problem. Falls off, no problem.

You like?
 

Unca Walt

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#27
Wait!! Wait!!

I fergot silver. You use Lenz's Law for silver of any kind. Lenz's Law is the eddy current effect. If you put a neodynium magnet on a pure silver coin/bar and tilt it... the magnet will slowly slide off.

Bad = If the magnet does NOT slide off

Bad = If the magnet falls right off quickly.

Good = Lenz's Law makes the magnet e-a-s-e down and fall off.
 

Mujahideen

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#30

The bulk of my gold is this. I’m hoping the new gold eagles have a similar level of security, but I doubt it.
 

nowon

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#31

The bulk of my gold is this. I’m hoping the new gold eagles have a similar level of security, but I doubt it.
Heard that the US mint was going to upgrade security features but not clear on when. Maples are safest imo, just need to be careful with dings since 24k is pretty soft. If it gets damaged it's no longer BU and you loose that premium, but still have an easily verifiable oz of gold.
 
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#32
It might be best to buy directly from the US Mint. However, if you go to the website, you'll find most (all?) gold coins are out of stock right now.
 

nickndfl

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#33
Buy from a reputable dealer. I been getting stuff as first mint issue, not that it has any numismatic value whatsoever.
 

rbh110

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#34
2021 Britannia's seem to have some leading-edge security features that would be difficult (and expensive) to replicate.

Latent image: First introduced on the £2 coin, the latent image acts like a hologram and changes from a padlock to a trident when the coin is seen from different angles. (like the Korean bullion coin)

Surface Animation: Micro details on the coin combine to create the illusion of waves rolling behind the figure of Britannia. These are created using advanced picosecond lasers, and come to life as the coin is rotated.

Micro-text: The addition of the inscription DECUS ET TUTAMEN, which translates to “an ornament and a safeguard,” surrounds the figure of Britannia and is created using specialist lasers.

Tincture lines: To reinforce security, the Royal Mint has reintroduced the traditional art of tincture lines — depicting colors and patterns on metal.
 

Casey Jones

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#35
If you cannot afford water, styrofoam, and a dish... or you have a 50-oz bar of gold, there is even a simpler way:

Put the neodynium magnet ON the coin. Tilt the coin. If the magnet stays on... Problem. Falls off, no problem.

You like?
Have to do it in his shop.

But I learned a lot, here.
 

WillA2

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#36
Wait!! Wait!!

I fergot silver. You use Lenz's Law for silver of any kind. Lenz's Law is the eddy current effect. If you put a neodynium magnet on a pure silver coin/bar and tilt it... the magnet will slowly slide off.

Bad = If the magnet does NOT slide off

Bad = If the magnet falls right off quickly.

Good = Lenz's Law makes the magnet e-a-s-e down and fall off.
I think you will want to have a rubber glove for this so you don't "short" the circuit. Kind of like dropping a magnet through an uninsulated copper tube. Falls right through. Insulate yourself from the circuit, the magnet will take it's time getting through.

My inner nerd likes this test.
 

Unca Walt

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#37
Have to do it in his shop.

But I learned a lot, here.
No legit LCD will have the slightest objection to you taking out your neodynium magnet to check the purchase. Feel free to do it in his shop.