• Same story, different day...........year ie more of the same fiat floods the world
  • There are no markets
  • "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding high finance, politics, constructionist Constitution, and mental masturbation of all types"

Who had a "Gut Feeling" about Bitcoin?

Joe King

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The debt fiat system is designed to have an above the table enterprise and a under the table enterprise - Bitcoin enables the under the table enterprise to grow and spread the misery. The dark pools will grow until it reaches peak misery - think Mexico and the cartels. You can call it whatever you want. One man's freedom is another man's addiction, kidnapping, war crime, etc.
Cash enables all that same stuff too. Probably even more, because cash doesn't have a blockchain.

Ie: your argument against btc also applies for cash.
...and you actually think the fed is fully above the table? That's laughable, at best. lol
 

Silver

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Cash enables all that same stuff too. Probably even more, because cash doesn't have a blockchain.

Ie: your argument against btc also applies for cash.
...and you actually think the fed is fully above the table? That's laughable, at best. lol
Obviously the Fed is part of the under the table enterprise also - laundering trillions through their system is evidence enough.

Freedom to me means doing as I please, as long as it doesn't infringe on your freedom or harm you. To have the criminal system grow even larger and more powerful is not a positive to me - and no, I don't have a solution.
 

Joe King

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Obviously the Fed is part of the under the table enterprise also - laundering trillions through their system is evidence enough.
Ok, so we agree. Ie: if btc is bad and needs to be banned, so does cash.


Freedom to me means doing as I please, as long as it doesn't infringe on your freedom or harm you.
That also applies to everyone else then, too. Ie: until someone does something with their cash or btc that directly harms another, then it's all good, right?


IMO, btc is just like a car, a gun, or even a rolling pin. Or any other human created thing.
Ie: they all can be used for good things or bad things or anything in between.



To have the criminal system grow even larger and more powerful is not a positive to me - and no, I don't have a solution.
The only way to not allow for any criminal activity is to have everything tracked and recorded. Ie: the banning of cash and all negotiable instruments that can be transferred person to person without the aid of the banking system.
 

Silver

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I never said anything about banning anything - just stating why I think Bitcoin is growing exponentially.
 

Joe King

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I never said anything about banning anything - just stating why I think Bitcoin is growing exponentially.
I think it's growing because people of all sorts are interested in it due to the fact it's not gov controlled. What else can you put money into that isn't controlled and/or manipulated by the crooks we have runnin' stuff now? btc is like a breath of fresh air compared to what else there is out there.
...and I responded to your comment originally because it seemed you were implying that only those with criminal intent would use it, and that is just not so.
 

Nomis Elpmis

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One immediate driving factor is Bitcoin is supposedly 'Forking' (Splitting) into Bitcoin and Bitcoin Gold on October 25th. Just like the Bitcoin Cash fork on August 1st. If you hold bitcoin before the 'fork', you will get an equal amount of Bitcoin Gold after the 'fork'. Isn't that forking great news!..:-)
 

andial

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I want bitcoin to go down so i could buy moar.
 

dacrunch

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Somehow my brain can't understand bitcoin (even though it isn't more "virtual" than "fiat")... I remember Max Keiser recommending it when it was $35... Wish my brain understood it (at that time, at least, haha).
 

Nomis Elpmis

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I want bitcoin to go down so i could buy moar.
Will most likely sell off after October 25th, if you want to buy. Just above $4000 is my buy back target.
 
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One immediate driving factor is Bitcoin is supposedly 'Forking' (Splitting) into Bitcoin and Bitcoin Gold on October 25th. Just like the Bitcoin Cash fork on August 1st. If you hold bitcoin before the 'fork', you will get an equal amount of Bitcoin Gold after the 'fork'. Isn't that forking great news!..:-)
Split again? Really? Again? Bitcoin Gold? WTF

Get out of dollars because they are electronic blips that are created from nothing. Get into bitcoin because they are electronic blips created from nothing that are valued in nothing dollars. Want to have even more nothings split the nothings into more nothings that are valued in nothing. People have lost their minds.
 

goldielox1

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One immediate driving factor is Bitcoin is supposedly 'Forking' (Splitting) into Bitcoin and Bitcoin Gold on October 25th. Just like the Bitcoin Cash fork on August 1st. If you hold bitcoin before the 'fork', you will get an equal amount of Bitcoin Gold after the 'fork'. Isn't that forking great news!..:-)
LOL and this is a good thing? It's like a stock split where there are twice as many shares but each share is now more valuable than when there were half as many.
 

goldielox1

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I think it's growing because people of all sorts are interested in it due to the fact it's not gov controlled. What else can you put money into that isn't controlled and/or manipulated by the crooks we have runnin' stuff now? btc is like a breath of fresh air compared to what else there is out there.
...and I responded to your comment originally because it seemed you were implying that only those with criminal intent would use it, and that is just not so.
So we have two fiats here. At least one of them is supposedly backed by something (government assets: human capital in the form of income taxes, supposedly gold, oil, land, etc). Even if you don't believe there is gold in Ft Knox, there will always be a significant percentage of the population that will believe and trust thatm and the government will always have some assets so the dollar should always have some value.

Bitcoin on the other hand doesn't even have a corrupt government backing it. Supposedly there are a finite number of shares, but just in the last 6 months, that finite limit number has increased by a factor of 4 with 2 splits. Not to mention there are now 50? or so cryptos, and there is no limit to how many cryptos can be printed. So no one can dispute that in the future, there will be an infinite number of coin shares available Isn't this the reason people gave as they supposedly want to move from the dollar to something that can't be printed infinitely?
 

Joe King

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So we have two fiats here.
No, we have one fiat. To be "fiat" requires a government decree that it be money. So no matter how much you try to say it is, BTC is not fiat.

If you are going to use terms to describe/define something to others, you should stick to accepted definitions and not invent your own definitions for it.


At least one of them is supposedly backed by something (government assets: human capital in the form of income taxes, supposedly gold, oil, land, etc). Even if you don't believe there is gold in Ft Knox, there will always be a significant percentage of the population that will believe and trust thatm and the government will always have some assets so the dollar should always have some value.
Granted.


Bitcoin on the other hand doesn't even have a corrupt government backing it.
Which is a good thing.


Supposedly there are a finite number of shares, but just in the last 6 months, that finite limit number has increased by a factor of 4 with 2 splits. Not to mention there are now 50? or so cryptos, and there is no limit to how many cryptos can be printed. So no one can dispute that in the future, there will be an infinite number of coin shares available Isn't this the reason people gave as they supposedly want to move from the dollar to something that can't be printed infinitely?
Having multiple crypto's is the same as having multiple currencies in the World. There are more than one ya know.
...and when btc (or any other coin) splits, there is still the same number of btc's as there was before. The new one is on its own to either sink or swim.

It's just that with crypto's, anyone can start their own. Ie: it's called a free market, something most people are not familiar with these days.

With so many crypto's, it's similar to how the car industry started. 100 years ago there were hundreds of car mfg's. Today we have a small handful. Why? Because people threw their hat in the ring and took a shot at starting something new. The ones the public actually bought became the survivors.

Crypto's will be the same. At some point most of them will go away through dis-use. Ie: rather than gov, the People will decide who the winners and losers will be.

BTW, $5694.
 

anywoundedduck

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Putin outlaws Bitcoin and introduces the CryptoRuble.
My gut is that every sovereign nation will do the same as Putin.
It's a matter of control and sovereignty, and Bitcoin encroaches both.
You will wake up one morning, and the TBTF banks will have dumped all their Bitcoin and left the bagholders with an empty bag.
 

goldielox1

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No, we have one fiat. To be "fiat" requires a government decree that it be money. So no matter how much you try to say it is, BTC is not fiat.

If you are going to use terms to describe/define something to others, you should stick to accepted definitions and not invent your own definitions for it.
Actually if you're going to correct someone, it would probably help if you knew what you were talking about. No, fiat does not require a "government decree". It just means that the value is determined by someone in authority. If you really think that bitcoin is trading based on market forces, you are a slow cookie. I'll refer you back to my post a few pages back about some "large unknown trader" making huge positional moves. The one you ignored.
BTW, $5694.
Someone flushed. It's down 10% in one day.
 

Joe King

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Actually if you're going to correct someone, it would probably help if you knew what you were talking about. No, fiat does not require a "government decree". It just means that the value is determined by someone in authority.
It's you who needs to know what you're talking about. Either you don't know, or you are attempting to redefine terms for your own benefit.

Fiat money is a currency without intrinsic value established as money by government regulation or law. The term derives from the Latin fiat ("let it be done") used in the sense of an order or decree.

What other "authority" than gov is going to decree to you what "money" is? Seeing how you are lacking one, here's a a clue. The government.

Tell us what other "authority" it would be referring to? What other entity issues decrees for all people in a given jurisdiction?
Gov decreed that gold is money, then decreed it wasn't and everyone listened. Gov decrees that federal reserve notes are money and everyone listens.

Again, what other entity besides government does stuff like that?


fiat.PNG



Here's a good link for ya, or just google "what is fiat money". No matter what site it brings up they all say it requires a gov decree and that it not be backed by anything other than public trust. You are trying to only use part of the definition because that's the only way serves your purposes.
Most of the world’s money is called fiat money, meaning it is accepted as money because a government says that it’s legal tender, and the public has enough confidence and faith in the money’s ability to serve as a storage medium for purchasing power.


If you really think that bitcoin is trading based on market forces, you are a slow cookie.
The only way to affect the price is by buying or selling. You may not like that fact, but that's the way it is.


I'll refer you back to my post a few pages back about some "large unknown trader" making huge positional moves. The one you ignored.
Anyone who owns some could sell. It's their Right to do with their stuff as they see fit. I don't really care who buys or sells it. Why do you? I didn't respond because it's a non-issue imho.


Someone flushed. It's down 10% in one day.
$5339 last I checked. If Au went to $5700 and fell back 10% then settled on $5339, you'd be happier than a pig in mud. Admit it. lol
 

goldielox1

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fiat:
noun
1.
an authoritative decree, sanction, or order:
a royal fiat.
Synonyms: authorization, directive, ruling, mandate, diktat, ukase.
2.
a fixed form of words containing the word fiat, by which a person in authority gives sanction, or authorization.
3.
an arbitrary decree or pronouncement, especially by a person or group of persons having absolute authority to enforce it:
The king ruled by fiat.

www.dictionary.com

Those are all three definitions. Show me which one says it must be a government body.

Again you are proven wrong. How many times must I take you to the intellectual woodshed?
 

goldielox1

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>>If you really think that bitcoin is trading based on market forces, you are a slow cookie.
>The only way to affect the price is by buying or selling. You may not like that fact, but that's the way it is.

This made me laugh. You obviously know nothing about financial markets. I hope you're not playing with real money.
 

Joe King

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Those are all three definitions. Show me which one says it must be a government body.

Again you are proven wrong. How many times must I take you to the intellectual woodshed?
No, you are. In your own post you state that by fiat is a royal decree. "Royal" and "authority" equates to government. Royal being used with the word authority? That could only mean government. Or perhaps your local warlord if you have one.

Again, what other authority can make such a decree? Government is the only one I'm aware of that could issue such a decree that value-less things be money.

Please enlighten us by telling us what authority other than government has the power to issue such a decree to all of us. If you can't directly answer this, then I am the one who is correct on this matter.



This made me laugh.
You make me do that when you only use half of a definition to define something. lol
 

goldielox1

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No, you are. In your own post you state that by fiat is a royal decree. "Royal" and "authority" equates to government.

Royal being used with the word authority? That could only mean government. Or perhaps your local warlord if you have one.

Again, what other authority can make such a decree? Government is the only one I'm aware of that could issue such a decree that value-less things be money.

Please enlighten us by telling us what authority other than government has the power to issue such a decree to all of us. If you can't directly answer this, then I am the one who is correct on this matter.



You make me do that when you only use half of a definition to define something. lol
So silly. I feel like I'm talking to a 12 year old boy that's either unable to think straight or is just being petulant.

I guess we need to go back to the basics with you since you don't understand even the simplest of matters. When a dictionary lists 3 definitions, not all three are the meaning of every word. Any of the three can be the meaning but not all three have to be. Thus if it gives an example of something being based on royal decree, than that is one possiblity.

I clearly stated that it can be but DOESN'T HAVE TO BE by government authority. Surely in a monarchy, a royal could declare that the pound is the currency.

However, there are other instances of fiat where it doesn't have to be via government. For instance a prison may have a system where one of the thugs that has access to narcotics has decreed that the only currency he will accept as money for said drugs are pieces of paper that he has made up with his signature (or poppies or sunflowers). Those pieces of paper would circulate through the prison and could be used to get prisoners to do favors or whatnot. Whatever it may be, is irrelevant, the point is it would be a fiat currency and not under the umbrella of government. A family could have a system where the father has told the kids they are paid for chores in worthless baseball cards from dad's collection, and they barter back and forth to get a sibling to do their chores, or homework using those baseball cards. At the end of the week, the dad will exchange any baseball cards the kids decide to redeem for candy bars. I could go on an on with hundreds of examples of fiat that isn't via government.

For once will you finally admit you're wrong or will you keep acting like a doofus in every thread I see you post on?
 

Joe King

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So silly. I feel like I'm talking to a 12 year old boy that's either unable to think straight or is just being petulant.
I feel as though I'm talking to a 3 year old.
...and that's a stretch.

I clearly stated that it can be but DOESN'T HAVE TO BE by government authority.
Again, what other authority than gov could make such a decree? All your definitions are qualified by words like "authoritative decree" "person in authority gives sanction" "The king ruled by fiat" .

In case you didn't notice, all 3 of your definitions describe something akin to government being the authority.

Again, what other authority could make such a decree? Just answer that simple question and you'll be proven right. Give me the name of any authority that has the power to cause all of us to recognize btc or anything else as money.
I say gov is the only authority that could do it.




I thought fiat was a little car you drive around Italy.... Regardless, btc is not fiat as no one is forced to use it.
Thank you. Maybe a short simple answer is what goldie needs to be able to understand. lol
 

the_shootist

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Quoted from the internet for truth:

Cryptoniggers have to realize that the VERY FIRST thing that would go down in a crash is crypto due to the massive crypto dumping that would commence to cover for the stock losses.

Don't wait too long to get out
 

Nomis Elpmis

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Forshizzle..:-)
 

Area51

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So silly. I feel like I'm talking to a 12 year old boy that's either unable to think straight or is just being petulant.

I guess we need to go back to the basics with you since you don't understand even the simplest of matters. When a dictionary lists 3 definitions, not all three are the meaning of every word. Any of the three can be the meaning but not all three have to be. Thus if it gives an example of something being based on royal decree, than that is one possiblity.

I clearly stated that it can be but DOESN'T HAVE TO BE by government authority. Surely in a monarchy, a royal could declare that the pound is the currency.

However, there are other instances of fiat where it doesn't have to be via government. For instance a prison may have a system where one of the thugs that has access to narcotics has decreed that the only currency he will accept as money for said drugs are pieces of paper that he has made up with his signature (or poppies or sunflowers). Those pieces of paper would circulate through the prison and could be used to get prisoners to do favors or whatnot. Whatever it may be, is irrelevant, the point is it would be a fiat currency and not under the umbrella of government. A family could have a system where the father has told the kids they are paid for chores in worthless baseball cards from dad's collection, and they barter back and forth to get a sibling to do their chores, or homework using those baseball cards. At the end of the week, the dad will exchange any baseball cards the kids decide to redeem for candy bars. I could go on an on with hundreds of examples of fiat that isn't via government.

For once will you finally admit you're wrong or will you keep acting like a doofus in every thread I see you post on?

You're wasting your time with such an obtuse clown. He can't bring himself to acknowledge that virtual currencies are backed by absolutely NOTHING but thin virtual air - - so he insists they're "not fiat" because the virtual currencies have no government backing it.

The guy doesn't realize it, but the virtual currencies are even more worthless than all the fiat currencies around the world.
 

Joe King

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but the virtual currencies are even more worthless than all the fiat currencies around the world.
The gov has guns to back theirs up with. While on the other hand, people use btc voluntarily and of their own free will.

Yes, for a thing to be fiat money requires an authority to cause everyone else to view it as money. If not, why does every definition of the word include that? Goldie could not provide the name of any authority other than gov with the power to do so. That was after saying the authority didn't have to be a government. lol
...and calling btc fiat is about as dumb as saying the gold they hold has intrinsic value. If all one does with it is hold it until someone will pay them more for it, it's called extrinsic value.

Words have definitions for a reason.


Edited to add: ...and area51, how many thousand$ has btc gone up since you originally declared it to be worthless?
 
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andial

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It shot up to 6,111.
Well that stinks it's making it harder to buy moar. That's what i like about silver, you can always buy moar because the price is surpressed.
 

Juristic Person

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It's worse, the value was created somewhere in hyper space and remains there until either you cash it in or it disappears
Yeah so play the game and make a profit. There are some nice bitcoin currencies coming out of Asia right now that are a very good play.
 

Joe King

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btc up to $6500 now.....It wouldn't surprise me if btc went to $10,000 or $0 in a week.
Yes, either is theoretically possible, but $10k is faaar more likely. Like infinitely more likely.

You oughta at least throw $100 in it goldie. What's the harm? Had you done that back in June, you'd have at least $250 today. What else had that kind of return in that time frame?

BTW $6623 right now, so $123 up just since you posted. I bet that just chaps your a$$. lol
 

dacrunch

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... as long as $300 million worth don't just "disappear" in a "freak incident", like I recently read...

What I can't "touch", I can't "understand"...