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Who had a "Gut Feeling" about Bitcoin?

Joe King

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I have a couple and some silver certificates...what do you suppose I'll get if I trot them down to the local federal reserve branch? Gold? Silver? ...really dude?
If you were to persist, I would suppose that what you'd get is arrested. lol


Okay...I'm 12 mins in and he's still babbling about two factor authorization and cell phones. Is he talking about hacking exchanges/websites?
Possibly something to do with security, or lack thereof, on cell phones containing a wallet? I couldn't make it through the whole thing either. lol
 

#48Fan

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Instead of doubling down on stupidity, it's ok to be honest here, my friend.

Your continued insistence that "mathematical algorithms" backing a currency carry any more weight than the promise of the US government backing a currency is laughable.

WTF can you redeem your bitcoins for - - a printout of "mathematical algorithms"? That's every bit as worthless as a hand shake from Jan Yellen.
I guess we can agree to disagree. Could I have your address to send you a back up buggy whip?
 

solarion

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Possibly something to do with security, or lack thereof, on cell phones containing a wallet? I couldn't make it through the whole thing either. lol
I don't think it was even that...I mean I have a wallet on my phone...I just keep next to nothing in there. It doesn't even offer two factor authorization. That's why I think he was talking about exchanges being hacked.

Sadly, many seem unable to differentiate between "exchange/website hacked" and "bitcoin hacked". The former happens daily...the latter has never happened.
 

Area51

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lol sure buddy, let's play stupid verb games. "Redeem" vs "buy".

You were quite happy to play "word games" when you foolishly tried to insist bitcoins were not fiat, despite being backed by absolutely ZERO.

Please refrain from such overt hypocrisy in the future.



Bitcoin has precious little in common with FRNs and it's most assuredly not "money" by decree(fiat).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

Cryptos are not fiat.


http://goldismoney2.com/threads/the...ntry-thomas-sowell.144368/page-4#post-1196342
 

solarion

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You were quite happy to play "word games" when you foolishly tried to insist bitcoins were not fiat, despite being backed by absolutely ZERO.

Please refrain from such overt hypocrisy in the future.
Is that what you call it when someone attempts to define a word?

Okay daddy, let's make a deal then. I'll try to be more genuine if you can promise to try to stop being so freaking stupid. lol You're literally lowering the overall IQ of the entire Internet with your ignorance.

Truly you must be the dumbest poster here. Not just because you clearly have limited cognitive ability, but also because you don't even try to entertain viewpoints that aren't your own, preferring instead to hurl insults. Like most idiot liberals you clearly live in an echo chamber. Nothing gets through, everything just bounces right off your armor of ignorance. Then to make matters worse you routinely tell others they should think before they speak...which is weird since you're so clearly incapable of rational thought.
 

Area51

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Is that what you call it when someone attempts to define a word?

Okay daddy, let's make a deal then. I'll try to be more genuine if you can promise to try to stop being so freaking stupid. lol You're literally lowering the overall IQ of the entire Internet with your ignorance.

Truly you must be the dumbest poster here. Not just because you clearly have limited cognitive ability, but also because you don't even try to entertain viewpoints that aren't your own, preferring instead to hurl insults. Like most idiot liberals you clearly live in an echo chamber. Nothing gets through, everything just bounces right off your armor of ignorance. Then to make matters worse you routinely tell others they should think before they speak...which is weird since you're so clearly incapable of rational thought.


You got called on your misinformed statement that bitcoins can be redeemed for gold and then got upset when I pointed out your comment was factually incorrect.

CANNOT redeem bitcoins when they're backed by nothing but thin air - - and "mathematical algorithms". Best you can hope for is to offload them in exchange for tangible goods and services before they're utterly worthless. Kinda like USDs and every other intrinsically worthless currency, no?
 

goldielox1

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On a side note: Cryptocurrencies are backed by mathematics/algorithms on the blockchain. You can bash that idea all you want as well, just quit saying it is backed by "nothing".
You don't understand what the term "backing" means.
 

goldielox1

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You mean like the poor "suckers" goldie pointed to that stupidly bought that "shit" at 7500 a couple weeks back? Yeah...poor them...they should have plowed that fake ass fiat into the stock market and lost a bundle instead of gaining 9%.

The trouble with the bitcoin haters is they never seem to apply any reality checks. Bitcoin was 963 on January 1 of 2017. You didn't have to buy 5 years ago...you could have bought 5 freaking months ago and be up 335%. If you didn't listen to the stupid shits that rant and rave against bitcoin you could have bought on January 1 of THIS YEAR and you'd be up 748%.

That means if you dumped your cash into bitcoin on January 1 2017 rather than directly into PMs you could now have over SEVEN TIMES as much PMs as you would have.
Same can be said for a bunch of penny stocks or a lottery ticket or a super bowl champion pick before the season started. Snore.
 

solarion

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Same can be said for a bunch of penny stocks or a lottery ticket or a super bowl champion pick before the season started. Snore.
Yes, I saw your penny stock pick from 2014...it sucked.

...it's still a penny a share in case you're wondering.
 

CrimsonGuardJay

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I love how everyone just jumped right over the fact that 3.3 million dollars in bitcoins were stolen two days ago... and this actually happens to nearly 25% of all bitcoin exchanges. That alone is just another reason I don’t trust this.

I don’t care if it’s up 2x, 8x or 800x, I refuse to believe this shit. I’ve worked my ass clear off for 13 years in a difficult grind of a business, beating out hundreds of competitors, and finding new and innovative ways to do business,

....and you mean to tell me everything I have to show for it, that I’ve saved and put away for me and my wife through all my blood, sweat, and tears (literally) can be summed up in roughly 125 of these stupid fucking things that I could have easily bought for a few thousand bucks a few years back?

Bull fucking shite.
 

solarion

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The first rule of bitcoin is DON'T STORE THEM ON AN EXCHANGE.

This has been discussed 1k times...I don't understand why it's so complicated. If you think of bitcoin like cash, gold, or silver, it's real simple. Store your wealth yourself. Do NOT send it to someone else for safe keeping...they will rob you.

Would you send your gold stack to someone else to store for you? If so WHY?!?

If the answer is no to the above question, then why would you send your bitcoin to someone else for safe keeping?!? Particularly someone you've never met, don't know, and won't have a clue how to find if/when they do rob you?

Nobody is forcing anyone to use bitcoin or any other crypto btw. If you're more comfortable with banks then just stick with that. I mean obviously we can all trust banksters...right? I'm just happy there are actual alternatives to traditional banking/fiat currency.
 
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Area51

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I love how everyone just jumped right over the fact that 3.3 million dollars in bitcoins were stolen two days ago... and this actually happens to nearly 25% of all bitcoin exchanges. That alone is just another reason I don’t trust this.

I don’t care if it’s up 2x, 8x or 800x, I refuse to believe this shit. I’ve worked my ass clear off for 13 years in a difficult grind of a business, beating out hundreds of competitors, and finding new and innovative ways to do business,

....and you mean to tell me everything I have to show for it, that I’ve saved and put away for me and my wife through all my blood, sweat, and tears (literally) can be summed up in roughly 125 of these stupid fucking things that I could have easily bought for a few thousand bucks a few years back?

Bull fucking shite.
Great post.

I thought nothing would top the dot.com Ponzi bubble but this bitcoin charade is the best ever.

Totally understand the shills and apologists doing their best to lure new suckers into the scheme - - this is essential to keep the price run up going.

Once the flow of suckers at the bottom stop buying in at $8,000...$10,000...$20,000...that's when the music stops and the party's over.
 

Joe King

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....and you mean to tell me everything I have to show for it, that I’ve saved and put away for me and my wife through all my blood, sweat, and tears (literally) can be summed up in roughly 125 of these stupid fucking things that I could have easily bought for a few thousand bucks a few years back?
Apparently so. Two years ago today it woulda cost about $40,000 or $1,600 five years ago. If you'd have told anyone 5 years ago that it would go to where it is today, no one would have believed it.
...but here it is.
 

CrimsonGuardJay

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Apparently so. Two years ago today it woulda cost about $40,000 or $1,600 five years ago. If you'd have told anyone 5 years ago that it would go to where it is today, no one would have believed it.
...but here it is.
Sorry guys, I’ve studied economical history and market finance, this is not trustworthy.

“here is is” indeed....
 

Joe King

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Sorry guys, I’ve studied economical history and market finance, this is not trustworthy.

“here is is” indeed....
Well, time will certainly tell if it is or not. The thing about btc is, is that it is in fact something new that needs time to settle on a price. What I think we are watching is price discovery in action. Perhaps it is over valued, or perhaps it is undervalued. Again, time will tell.
 

CrimsonGuardJay

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Well, time will certainly tell if it is or not. The thing about btc is, is that it is in fact something new that needs time to settle on a price. What I think we are watching is price discovery in action. Perhaps it is over valued, or perhaps it is undervalued. Again, time will tell.
here's a fucking hint: its overvalued. Grossly.

At the current difficulty level it costs a little under $2,000 to produce one bitcoin in electrical costs, which means if you average it against the past few years, when the difficulty was peanuts by comparison, there's no way it was more than just a few hundred dollars each or much less.
 

Joe King

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here's a fucking hint: its overvalued. Grossly.

At the current difficulty level it costs a little under $2,000 to produce one bitcoin in electrical costs, which means if you average it against the past few years, when the difficulty was peanuts by comparison, there's no way it was more than just a few hundred dollars each or much less.
That is a factor, but what about the scarcity factor? There's only 16million+ in existence. What happens when 40million people all decide that they want one? Or what happens should a third of the Worlds population decide they all want just one bitcoin? Doesn't supply and demand have a lot to do with price, and not just production costs?
 

Area51

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That is a factor, but what about the scarcity factor? There's only 16million+ in existence. What happens when 40million people all decide that they want one? Or what happens should a third of the Worlds population decide they all want just one bitcoin? Doesn't supply and demand have a lot to do with price, and not just production costs?
Not surprising that you'd cling to the belief that there's only going to be 21M bitcoins created from now until the end of time. Just as in 1933 some believed the Fed would never create USD out of thin air.

There's absolutely nothing stopping the braintrust from increasing the supply. A simple tweak of the programming code and Voila! its suddenly raining bitcoins.
 

Joe King

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Not surprising that you'd cling to the belief that there's only going to be 21M bitcoins created from now until the end of time. Just as in 1933 some believed the Fed would never create USD out of thin air.

There's absolutely nothing stopping the braintrust from increasing the supply. A simple tweak of the programming code and Voila! its suddenly raining bitcoins.
Problem with that is in doing so, the trust that currently has allowed it to gain as it has would then be destroyed.

The US Dollar under the feds control was always intended to be inflated.

The two are very different in the fact that one survives by being grossly inflated, the other does not.
 

solarion

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here's a fucking hint: its overvalued. Grossly.
I dunno if bitcoin is overvalued or not relative to the USD...it certainly appears so relative to gold and silver...but then so do US homes. Are you 100% certain that bitcoin is not simply doing what gold would be doing were it not blatantly suppressed?


http://pricedingold.com/us-home-prices/

Here's the dow jones propaganda index priced in gold:

http://pricedingold.com/dow-jones-industrials/
Sure looks a long way from an all time high when measured in real money...doesn't it?

I am however, absolutely convinced that if you insist on assessing the value things in units of fiat then you'll reach many questionable conclusions.

At the current difficulty level it costs a little under $2,000 to produce one bitcoin in electrical costs, which means if you average it against the past few years, when the difficulty was peanuts by comparison, there's no way it was more than just a few hundred dollars each or much less.
The electricity costs are a key factor in determining the FMV of a bitcoin, but there's much more to it. The cost of the ASIC gear to actually mine bitcoin is also hideously expensive and tends to be obsolete very quickly.
 
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platinumdude

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solarion

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At issue is an alleged link between Dimon’s comments and, a few days later, JPMorgan emerging as one of the most active buyers of a bitcoin tracker fund called Bitcoin XBT. Bitcoin XBT is an exchange-traded note that’s listed on Nasdaq Nordic in Stockholm. It effectively lets clients hold bitcoin without worrying about how to store it securely.
https://qz.com/1083781/jpmorgans-ja...manipulating-the-bitcoin-btc-price-in-sweden/

This illustrates precisely how the banksters will try to contain bitcoin and anything else that threatens their fiat scam. If enough people buy into the notion that holding onto some bankster conjured fraud is as good as holding bitcoin then it's only a matter of time before the "price" of those frauds are considered "the price of bitcoin". This is how we got to a point where the price of gold is determined by the price of paper derivatives being peddled and not the actual commodity changing hands.

Remember, we had real money in this country, but the peasants were duped. First into accepting receipts for money(gold certificates instead of gold) and then into accepting "notes" as money. Always it's about convenience too..."oh hey, don't worry about having to secure your own wealth, we got your back!"

...and obviously Jamie Dimon is the kind of guy everybody wants holding onto their wealth right?
 

Area51

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https://qz.com/1083781/jpmorgans-ja...manipulating-the-bitcoin-btc-price-in-sweden/

This illustrates precisely how the banksters will try to contain bitcoin and anything else that threatens their fiat scam. If enough people buy into the notion that holding onto some bankster conjured fraud is as good as holding bitcoin then it's only a matter of time before the "price" of those frauds are considered "the price of bitcoin". This is how we got to a point where the price of gold is determined by the price of paper derivatives being peddled and not the actual commodity changing hands.

Remember, we had real money in this country, but the peasants were duped. First into accepting receipts for money(gold certificates instead of gold) and then into accepting "notes" as money. Always it's about convenience too..."oh hey, don't worry about having to secure your own wealth, we got your back!"

...and obviously Jamie Dimon is the kind of guy everybody wants holding onto their wealth right?

ANY currency that's backed by absolutely nothing but thin air is intrinsically worthless and laughably simple to manipulate.

You can spout all you want about how bitcoins aren't fiat but they're no different than the USD, my friend - - backed by ZERO with an inevitable end value of ZERO.
 

Joe King

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Two of those were about the same thing, spoofy.
From one of the links: While Spoofy is certainly exercising outsized control over the Bitcoin price, it is uncertain how much of an affect this is having on the markets. The price is currently rising, having finally surmounted the $3,000 barrier.

So at the end of the article they admit it's uncertain.
...and the other is about Dimon spouting off nonsense and people actually believing him? If he said gold sucks, would ya run out and sell your gold? I doubt it.
 

platinumdude

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No, but it is still be manipulated. Not for long though, for now it seems to bounce back. They do this much more with stocks to benefit the bigger players.
 

Joe King

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backed by ZERO with an inevitable end value of ZERO.
What's your best estimate for when it's going to zero? I'm asking for a time frame.
Tomorrow?
Next Week?
In a Month?
A Year maybe?
Five Years?
Ten?
50 perhaps?
In our children's lifetimes?
Grandchildren's lifetimes?

Even I think it could pull back for a while as it has after other big jumps in price. I just don't think it will go to zero. Or anywhere close to it, for that matter.
 

goldielox1

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That gets my vote. BTC is the only thing I know of that they (wall st/gov/fed) currently cannot manipulate the price of.
Even if you were naive enough to believe that it currently isn't being manipulated. COMEX has already stated that they will be issuing btc futures contracts within a month. At that point, I have a feeling (if it hasn't already), btc bubble will burst pretty quickly (or as Joe and Sol will claim will be being manipulated).
 

solarion

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Even I think it could pull back for a while as it has after other big jumps in price. I just don't think it will go to zero. Or anywhere close to it, for that matter.
Agree. I like bitcoin, but 486 ounces of silver > 1 btc to my simple mind, so I'm keeping bitcoin holdings to a bare minimum here.
Even if you were naive enough to believe that it currently isn't being manipulated.
Manipulation goes on in all markets...it's just human nature. My feathers get ruffled when gumbymints get involved and the institutional manipulation gets an official seal of approval.

For instance it's total BS that the Swiss National Bank can whip up some funny munny and buy up $63b of AAPL stock with it.
 

Joe King

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Even if you were naive enough to believe that it currently isn't being manipulated. COMEX has already stated that they will be issuing btc futures contracts within a month
I consider manipulating to be more along the lines of naked shorts and etf's
 

CrimsonGuardJay

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Earlier I used my labor and personal ingenuity of over a decade to equate to 125 of these bitcoins, but I think I’ll take another road, since someone was talking about how one bitcoin is worth over 6 ounces of gold right now, since all of us here have recognized gold is the oldest form of money on this planet a dedicated store of long term wealth...

6 ounces of gold takes an ABSURD amount of manpower to successfully extract from the ground, refine and mint. There’s a finite amount of it, it becomes scarcer every year.

And somehow, this currency which is formed out of thin air by breaking down complex equations using specialized hardware and electricity, is somehow so valuable that one unit of it is worth over 6 ounces of gold, (which men have KILLED each other for in past years), 6+ Troy ounces, even though a guy used 10,000 of them to buy a pizza for in 2010.... one bitcoin is worth 6 ounces of the oldest form of money in human history that stretches back thousands of years,

Certainly I’m not the only man who recognizes how FUCKING PREPOSTEROUS THIS IS.
 

solarion

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Can you not see that the actual "problem" is that you're valuing everything relative to fiat currency?

Yes gold is silly cheap relative to bitcoin when you measure both in terms of fiat, but is it that bitcoin is overpriced vs fiat or that gold is hideously suppressed relative to fiat? Perhaps more importantly how can you and I take advantage of that situation?

For me it's real simple. Convert gumbymint funny munny to bitcoin, wait awhile for it to appreciate vs fiat crap, and then convert it to gold...or in my case silver since gold is overpriced relative to silver.

Right at this time debtclock.org pegs the appropriate dollar/gold ratio at $5999 and the silver/dolar ratio at $729. Would bitcoin look so ridiculously overpriced if 1 bitcoin = 1.37 Ozt of AU or 11 Ozt of AG?

I can tell you for sure that if I were only getting 11.3 ounces of silver for a bitcoin I wouldn't be in a big hurry to make that swap. At the current rate of 485 Ozt for a bitcoin though, it seems like something of a no-brainer.
 
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platinumdude

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Market Cap $0.145T, I think that is going to be a while.
But 10K price before the end of the year seems very possible.
 

solarion

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IMHO, Au should be $50k/ounce, minimum. Relative to how diluted the Dollar is anyways.
Perhaps. Given that the all time high for AU is under 2k, $6k seems like a nice start.

One can now swap a single bitcoin for > 500 ounces of pure silver. The only thing preventing someone from swapping a single bitcoin for a monster box of silver eagles...is the premium.