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Why Libertarian Jo Jorgensen is the Best Candidate

Ensoniq

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#41
We have E15 mandated - and no more state exceptions. Wait until you see what E15 gasohol does to your car, and other power products.
e15 hasn’t been mandated, unless I missed something. Would appreciate a link. Just my opinion anyway but 10 or 15% ethanol is Functionally about the same. One isn’t fine but other will dissolve our engine seals.

Maybe Hoarder is right and a computer system rigs it all. Or, maybe many of the electors of the electoral college are bought and paid for. I don't know. Either way, "your vote" for POTUS is nothing more than a recommendation unless your state electors are required by law to vote with the popular vote.
the ball IS moving in the right direction here, though it does have a way to go. SCOTUS ruled that faithless electors can be prosecuted/punished for failing to vote as instructed by the voters. So yes, you still need the state to make them do it but at least the threat and ability to carry it out now - unambiguously has teeth.
https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/07/opinion-analysis-court-upholds-faithless-elector-laws/
 
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Joe King

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#42
e15 hasn’t been mandated, unless I missed something.
He was saying what we would be likely to get with a JoeHo win.
 

DodgebyDave

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#44
Are all of her cats accounted for?
 

Casey Jones

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#46
How about his promises to remove the Healf Kair Mandate; his pledge to stop the Affirmatively-Affirmative Housing Initiative, or whatever that move-the-ghetto-into-the-suburbs plan was, that Barry Hussein had begun?

How about THE WALL. More has been done with that than the last TWENTY years.

If you want to pretend Comatose Joe and the Cameltoe Hoe are no different...you go right ahead.

I deal with reality. That's why I stack and that's why I vote as I do. There's not-so-good and there's insanely destructive. The Circle D mob are the latter.

And I have no time for those who are part of the problem, because they want to pretend they're somehow better than others, voting for a loser with a platform few will support - and thereby enabling the wrecking to resume and accelerate.
 

Ensoniq

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#47
To be clear, if I thought Jo had a chance I’d take the risk

i think Trump is slowing the decay but not financially. He spends worse than Obozo and Mike in a Tranny bar.

we need to back to founding principles
 

ZZZZZ

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#48
To be clear, if I thought Jo had a chance I’d take the risk

i think Trump is slowing the decay but not financially. He spends worse than Obozo and Mike in a Tranny bar.

we need to back to founding principles
If everybody who thought she had a chance actually voted for her, she would!

:D
 

the_shootist

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#49
To be clear, if I thought Jo had a chance I’d take the risk

i think Trump is slowing the decay but not financially. He spends worse than Obozo and Mike in a Tranny bar.

we need to back to founding principles
Do you think FRNs are real money?
 

Aurumag

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#50
f everybody who thought she had a chance actually voted for her, she would!
Like Ron Paul? I vividly recall that it was the Republiturd Party that destroyed his MASSIVE support in both 2008 and 2012. Am I wrong?

Everything Trump's done has created more inflation. He promoted it by calling for lower interest rates. Then he signed off on the biggest federal spending bill in history, and then he signed off on the bailouts.
Have you ever watched the X-22 Report?

According to Dave, the zero interest rates and money creation are all "part of the plan" to destroy the fed monetary system and return to a monetary system more akin to the Au, Ag, Cu law that The Founders created in 1789.

A payroll tax Holiday? Who saw that coming.

POTUS DJT is FAR more Jeffersonian libertarian (lower case l) than most Libertarians (Political Party Upper Case L) give him credit for.
 
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Ensoniq

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#51
Do you think FRNs are real money?
no I don’t but functionally what I believe makes no difference when I’m buying steaks. They are 25% more than before the Covid crap

i don’t think that spike would have occurred as badly if we hadn’t have started spending 4 trillion per year more than our normal 2 trillion per year deficit
 

Bigfoot

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#52
Like Ron Paul? I vividly recall that it was the Republiturd Party that destroyed his MASSIVE support in both 2008 and 2012. Am I wrong?
No, you're absolutely right about that. More people should have dumped the Republican Party and Fox News over that.

Have you ever watched the X-22 Report?
Yes, I have. I think Dave is either a deep state agent, or a pareidolia mystic.

According to Dave, the zero interest rates and money creation are all "part of the plan" to destroy the fed monetary system and return to a monetary system more akin to the Au, Ag, Cu law that The Founders created in 1789.
To me that's like saying that arsonists are good guys who help others to build new homes.


_
 

Bigfoot

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#53
If everybody who thought she had a chance actually voted for her, she would!

:D
Bingo!

Republican voter: "You can vote for death by hanging or death by firing squad."
Libertarian voter: "I'm not voting for those two. I'm voting against our execution."
Republican voter: "If you vote against our execution, the firing squad will win."
Libertarian voter: "But if you vote for the hangman you will still die."
Republican voter: "The firing squad is instant death, but with the noose we might have a little more time to do something."
Libertarian voter: "But if you and your friends vote together with me, we can definitively end our death sentence."
Republican voter: "The hangman cares about this prison. If you can't see that then you're just a communist!"

_
 
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Ensoniq

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#54
Bingo!

Republican voter: "You can vote for death by hanging or death by firing squad."
Libertarian voter: "I'm not voting for those two. I'm voting against our execution."
Republican voter: "If you vote against our execution, the firing squad will win."
Libertarian voter: "But if you vote for the hangman you will still die."
Republican voter: "The firing squad is instant death, but with the noose we might have a little more time to do something."
Libertarian voter: "But if you and your friends vote together with me, we can definitively end our death sentence."
Republican voter: "The hangman cares about this prison. If you can't see that then you're just a communist!"

_
it’s a good analogy but I’m voting for death due to old age

I'm close enough for this to be the higher probability.

we all vote in our own self interest.

i don’t agree with all Trump does but he’s not net negative value in my opinion. He might not be correcting things fast enough but he’s not going to make it worse like Joe and the Ho
 
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Casey Jones

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#56
Even Trevor Noah agrees:


.
.
Know what happens when there's not a two-party system?

In European Parliamentary elections, often, the voters vote the PARTY, not the MAN. The parties get seats by percentage of votes.

They then put party functionaries into those seats. And IMMEDIATELY, log-rolling begins. The Democratic Socialist party, forms a coalition with the Communists and the Greens, to push through Greenhouse Gas caps that basically restrict industrial development to what government permits, through waivers in regulations.

That is how so many hare-brained schemes get launched in European democracies. It is also why European democracies are weak, unstable and expensive with taxes - even with the United States paying for all their defenses.

In a non-parliamentary system? Do you know who Salvador Allende was?

President of Chile. Elected in a three-way race, with about 38 percent of the vote. He treated it as a mandate for his Marxism - and proceeded to dismantle the nation's free-market economy.

The result was revolution, and out of it, Augusto Pinochet arose as military dictator.

Pinochet was, as dictators go, pretty benign. He left Chile far better than he took it. That makes that counter-revolution rare, and it depended on the morality of one man - Pinochet. And of his personal convictions of a free-market economy - which he had.

Most societies that go through that are not so lucky.

If you want to completely destablize the government, make the government in charge of how factions organize and appear on ballots. Our system is cumbersome - for a reason, and that awkwardness works.

It was deliberate - as made clear in the Federalist Papers.
 

Aurumag

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#57
I think Dave is either a deep state agent, or a pareidolia mystic.
I had to look that one up.

Obviously I won't convince you, but I hope you and others might see a shape in the clouds that looks like the Orange Man is good.
 

ZZZZZ

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#58
Know what happens when there's not a two-party system?

In European Parliamentary elections, often, the voters vote the PARTY, not the MAN. The parties get seats by percentage of votes.

They then put party functionaries into those seats. And IMMEDIATELY, log-rolling begins. The Democratic Socialist party, forms a coalition with the Communists and the Greens, to push through Greenhouse Gas caps that basically restrict industrial development to what government permits, through waivers in regulations.

That is how so many hare-brained schemes get launched in European democracies. It is also why European democracies are weak, unstable and expensive with taxes - even with the United States paying for all their defenses.

In a non-parliamentary system? Do you know who Salvador Allende was?

President of Chile. Elected in a three-way race, with about 38 percent of the vote. He treated it as a mandate for his Marxism - and proceeded to dismantle the nation's free-market economy.

The result was revolution, and out of it, Augusto Pinochet arose as military dictator.

Pinochet was, as dictators go, pretty benign. He left Chile far better than he took it. That makes that counter-revolution rare, and it depended on the morality of one man - Pinochet. And of his personal convictions of a free-market economy - which he had.

Most societies that go through that are not so lucky.

If you want to completely destablize the government, make the government in charge of how factions organize and appear on ballots. Our system is cumbersome - for a reason, and that awkwardness works.

It was deliberate - as made clear in the Federalist Papers.
I don't know where you got your history from but that's not what happened. The Founding Fathers warned against the evils of all organized political parties. They opposed the entire concept, but they especially warned about the evils of political power being vested in only two parties. Unlike many other "democracies", political parties are not mentioned anywhere in the US Constitution.

Maybe you've forgotten that (Dis)Honest Abe was the third party candidate when he got elected. Actually I wish the Whigs were still the second largest party.

In fact, there have been third, fourth and fifth party candidates in almost every presidential election.

Chile has nothing to do with third parties. Were Ross Perot or John Anderson Marxists? (Well maybe a little bit.)
.
.
 

chris_is_here

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#60
Yeah. I'll have to remember that the next time they're arguing about how to have Open Borders and whether traffic signals are Constitutional.

They're circus clowns - I swear to God, they're just putting on a floor show to entertain the few that involve themselves with that party.
I was a Libertarian party member for years, but gradually drifted away....the party made a habit of nominating idiots for the presidential elections, starting with Bob Barr and ending with that authoritarian nut-job Bill Weld as their VP nominee in 2016. Gary Johnson was the most successful of them, but he was off his wig as well......why any true libertarian would agree to run with Bill Weld on the ticket is beyond understanding.

The party seems to have evolved to standing on principles just to be different, which has put them out-of-step with the vast majority of conservative voters today.......as an example, their rigid open borders stance makes no sense., Ron Paul himself said you cannot have open borders in a welfare state, but apparently, the party apparatchiks didn't get this memo.
 

ZZZZZ

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#61
I was a Libertarian party member for years, but gradually drifted away....the party made a habit of nominating idiots for the presidential elections, starting with Bob Barr and ending with that authoritarian nut-job Bill Weld as their VP nominee in 2016. Gary Johnson was the most successful of them, but he was off his wig as well......why any true libertarian would agree to run with Bill Weld on the ticket is beyond understanding.

The party seems to have evolved to standing on principles just to be different, which has put them out-of-step with the vast majority of conservative voters today.......as an example, their rigid open borders stance makes no sense., Ron Paul himself said you cannot have open borders in a welfare state, but apparently, the party apparatchiks didn't get this memo.
In addition to Ron Paul, lots of other Libertarians including me are not in favor of open borders.

Good read:
Open Borders Are an Assault on Private Property

Same with abortion rights. The party membership is split. Does the unborn child have the same rights as the mother carry that child? Nobody on the planet has the ultimate answer to that, other than using taxpayer funds for abortion is in no way acceptable.

Beyond those twp issues, the LP is much more consistent than either the Donkeys or the Elephants, who change their platform at will every few years to suit the latest polls and focus groups.

Who remembers when Slick Willie and Barry Soetoro were adamantly opposed to "gay marriage?"
.
.
 

Casey Jones

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#62
I had to look that one up.

Obviously I won't convince you, but I hope you and others might see a shape in the clouds that looks like the Orange Man is good.
Orange Man is not good; but Orange Man is better.

GOVERNMENT is not good. It's a necessary evil and the smaller and more limited it is kept, the better off the citizens.

The problem is, this belief is shared by few. That is why Ron Paul had zero chance to ever get elected - and if he had gotten the office by a fluke, the way Gerald Ford did, he'd have been completely ineffective in implementing any meaningful change.

The test of a stable system, is not what it allows good leaders to impose by edict. It's what it PREVENTS...EVIL and INCOMPETENT leaders from doing. And there are more of them than there are true leaders and visionaries.

So the challenge here is to not let the Perfect become the enemy of the Good; or of the Better. We can endure Trump. Point of fact, he's far better than either of the Shrubs, better than about two or three modern Presidents. That's not to excuse his Helicopter Money; but it's recognition that we could do a lot worse.

And WILL, if we all start beating our breasts about our Holy Principles and vote for a cipher with exactly zero chance of winning.
 

Casey Jones

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#63
I don't know where you got your history from but that's not what happened. The Founding Fathers warned against the evils of all organized political parties. They opposed the entire concept, but they especially warned about the evils of political power being vested in only two parties. Unlike many other "democracies", political parties are not mentioned anywhere in the US Constitution.

Maybe you've forgotten that (Dis)Honest Abe was the third party candidate when he got elected. Actually I wish the Whigs were still the second largest party.

In fact, there have been third, fourth and fifth party candidates in almost every presidential election.

Chile has nothing to do with third parties. Were Ross Perot or John Anderson Marxists? (Well maybe a little bit.)
.
.
The government didn't create the two-party system. It simply morphed into being. Federalists versus Antifederalists, later Republicans (first Republican Party) and then National Republicans versus Democratic Republicans.

It was a natural, organic evolution. Yes, I'm well aware of the Framers' concerns about "factions." It was the one area where they were completely detached from the essence of human psychologies. There will always be two sides - US and THEM. Even in multiparty parliaments, as I mentioned, they inevitably form a coalition - a Majority Coalition versus the Loyal Opposition.

Six parties, say, but two sides.

Legislating out human psychology is a fool's errand. The Communists tried that; keep on trying that. Look how it works.
 

Casey Jones

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#64
In addition to Ron Paul, lots of other Libertarians including me are not in favor of open borders.

Good read:
Open Borders Are an Assault on Private Property

Same with abortion rights. The party membership is split. Does the unborn child have the same rights as the mother carry that child? Nobody on the planet has the ultimate answer to that, other than using taxpayer funds for abortion is in no way acceptable.

Beyond those twp issues, the LP is much more consistent than either the Donkeys or the Elephants, who change their platform at will every few years to suit the latest polls and focus groups.

Who remembers when Slick Willie and Barry Soetoro were adamantly opposed to "gay marriage?"
.
.
How do you, or they, plan to reconcile Open Borders with the Welfare State?

The Welfare State ain't goin' nowhere. Even if laws were passed abolishing it, some black-robed kangaroo would strike it down in the Kourts.

And even Ron Paul and Milton Friedman admitted that a prerequisite to a porous border MUST be, abolition of the Welfare State. Obviously, to prevent the mass immigration of tax consumers, loafers, undesirables who bring nothing but their appetites for Free Shit.
 

historyrepete

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#65
So. You pull votes from the rational major-party candidate; and give them to a predisposed loser (that's the reality, no matter the worth of the ideas) leaving the dementia patient and the crazy whore's support, untouched.

You repeat 1992. And then in January, we have the ACA Mandate reimposed. We have mandatory face-diapers EVERYWHERE. We have HCL treatments for Beer Flu, banned.

We have MOAR printed-up money given to those who look like slaves dead 200 years - this free New Money, debases the value of what you worked for and tried to save.

We have E15 mandated - and no more state exceptions. Wait until you see what E15 gasohol does to your car, and other power products.

We have smartmeters tattling on people who keep their houses "too" cool or warm. And we get Digital Dollars - tied to a Chip, the Mark of the Beast.

That sound like a desirable outcome?




We've seen how Trump does it. Not badly - better than at least half of modern Presidents.

And he keeps his word. As someone who depends on the VA for medical care - denied access during the Reign of Hussein - it's personal.

He hasn't been able to undo the whole of the ACA because he has the Circle D Congress as blood enemies. But he's gotten a fair amount done, considering the obstacles put in his path.

I just outlined some of the insanity that's coming if/when this current crop of D screwballs gets power. Money destroyed and energy forbidden. Goobermint Healf Kair. Access to EVERYTHING, dependent on skin color and genitalia - and White Males will be last in line for everything.

That's a big difference.
All to be principled. Sometimes lesser of the 2 evils is the correct choice
 

gringott

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#66
To be clear, if I thought Jo had a chance I’d take the risk

i think Trump is slowing the decay but not financially. He spends worse than Obozo and Mike in a Tranny bar.

we need to back to founding principles
Too late. What cannot be paid back will not be paid back. We are in the Outer Limits and testing the Twilight Zone.

Even Trevor Noah agrees:


.
.
Trevor Noah???????? Why would you care what a South African asshat thinks? You know he fled SA from his stepfather, because he threatened him. The stepfather shot his mother previously. So he is a coward. Fuck him.
 

gringott

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#67
THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T VOTE LIBERTARIAN THIS TIME - IT COULD PUT HARRIS IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
1597956841043.png
 

Joe King

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#68
^^^^ Yep. a vote for Jo is a vote for Joe.
 

Silver

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#69
Medical martial law, lockdowns, shutdowns, economic collapse - evidently, it doesn't matter how anyone votes.
 

Bigfoot

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#71
This guy is one of organizers of the pro-2nd Amendment rallies in Virginia. Imagine if Faux News told their viewers the truth about Trump.

 

ZZZZZ

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#72
^^^^ Yep. a vote for Jo is a vote for Joe.
The Lunatic Leftists think a vote for Jo is a vote for El Trumpster.

Mikey Obomba said at the convention:

“This is not the time to withhold our votes in protest or play games with candidates who have no chance of winning."
.
 

Ensoniq

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#74
This guy is one of organizers of the pro-2nd Amendment rallies in Virginia. Imagine if Faux News told their viewers the truth about Trump.

factually wrong, no examples, and inflammatory

1) he say Trump is a domestic terrorist - come on man. ;)
2) his thesis is that Trump has done more Antigun than last two presidents - ridiculous lie

Trump does scare me on occasion when he talks about universal background check but other than that the only thing he’s done that I’m aware of is ban bump stock. Yes, this is the wrong direction but serious firearm owners kniw these are novelty they ruin your aim for only slightly faster action than a decent shooter could do while aiming, with good trigger technique.

lets review how’s Trump has made things better
1) stopped ssa from using disability reporting as an automatic disqualification in NICS
2) increased prosecution of federal firearm violations (don’t need more laws and restrictions we need criminals held accountable)
3) redefined “fugitive from justice” - Dems were using “charged” and “open warrant even under compliance” To restrict firearm ownership and purchase. Under Trump it’s “only if convicted”. (Quotes only for emphasis)
4) fought and won lawsuit (Doj) overturning prohibition of distribution of Obama 3D gun blueprint sharing rules
5) advocates for arming school staff
6) restricted government spending on “gun violence lobby and research”. Only in the US were we paying for our enemy‘s research costs
 
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Bigfoot

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#75
lets review how’s Trump has made things better
1) stopped ssa from using disability reporting as an automatic disqualification in NICS
2) increased prosecution of federal firearm violations (don’t need more laws and restrictions we need criminals held accountable)
3) redefined “fugitive from justice” - Dems were using “charged” and “open warrant even under compliance” To restrict firearm ownership and purchase. Under Trump it’s “only if convicted”. (Quotes only for emphasis)
4) fought and won lawsuit (Doj) overturning prohibition of distribution of Obama 3D gun blueprint sharing rules
5) advocates for arming school staff
6) restricted government spending on “gun violence lobby and research”. Only in the US were we paying for our enemy‘s research costs
I don't consider increased prosecution of federal firearms violations to be a good thing. I don't think that a person is a criminal unless they have victimized someone else. If someone puts a silencer on their weapon without registering with the government, has a crime actually been committed? Is the weapon personal property or the government's property?

Trump, with Barr's help, created DEEP, the Disruption and Early Engagement Program. If you look into it, you'll find that it has federal spies feeding information to the state law enforcement agencies, in the states which have red flag laws.

Furthermore, there is the bump-stock ban. Why is the bump-stock ban important? Because Trump simply banned bump-stocks by executive decree, and thus the precedent has been established for future presidents to regulate firearms via executive decree.
 

chieftain

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#76
Know what happens when there's not a two-party system?

In European Parliamentary elections, often, the voters vote the PARTY, not the MAN. The parties get seats by percentage of votes.

They then put party functionaries into those seats. And IMMEDIATELY, log-rolling begins. The Democratic Socialist party, forms a coalition with the Communists and the Greens, to push through Greenhouse Gas caps that basically restrict industrial development to what government permits, through waivers in regulations.

That is how so many hare-brained schemes get launched in European democracies. It is also why European democracies are weak, unstable and expensive with taxes - even with the United States paying for all their defenses.

In a non-parliamentary system? Do you know who Salvador Allende was?

President of Chile. Elected in a three-way race, with about 38 percent of the vote. He treated it as a mandate for his Marxism - and proceeded to dismantle the nation's free-market economy.

The result was revolution, and out of it, Augusto Pinochet arose as military dictator.

Pinochet was, as dictators go, pretty benign. He left Chile far better than he took it. That makes that counter-revolution rare, and it depended on the morality of one man - Pinochet. And of his personal convictions of a free-market economy - which he had.

Most societies that go through that are not so lucky.

If you want to completely destablize the government, make the government in charge of how factions organize and appear on ballots. Our system is cumbersome - for a reason, and that awkwardness works.

It was deliberate - as made clear in the Federalist Papers.
Well said Casey.

I will add the following though, neither system guarantees that the incumbent does the right thing for the country as a whole and not vested and corrupt interests. The argument could be made that the opposite is the reality, that either option guarantees that the vested and corrupt interests get their way. It could further be argued that this is by design.
 

Ensoniq

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#77
I don't consider increased prosecution of federal firearms violations to be a good thing. I don't think that a person is a criminal unless they have victimized someone else. If someone puts a silencer on their weapon without registering with the government, has a crime actually been committed? Is the weapon personal property or the government's property?

Trump, with Barr's help, created DEEP, the Disruption and Early Engagement Program. If you look into it, you'll find that it has federal spies feeding information to the state law enforcement agencies, in the states which have red flag laws.

Furthermore, there is the bump-stock ban. Why is the bump-stock ban important? Because Trump simply banned bump-stocks by executive decree, and thus the precedent has been established for future presidents to regulate firearms via executive decree.
these are both good points, particularly bump stocks. I may have fallen into the trap of not caring about an infringement because I didn’t respect the thing being infringed
 

ZZZZZ

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#78
Republicans allegedly advocate free markets and competition.

Democrats allegedly advocate protection of minorities.
.
.Except when it comes to political parties and ballot access.
.
.
 
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Scorpio

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#79
as an example, their rigid open borders stance makes no sense.,
chris,
I call that the free range humans policy,
or in my parlance, free range 2 leggahs

and it is the primary reason I wouldn't even consider a libertard

in a altruistic globalist view, you can make an argument for it,
but if you actually believe in self determination, and property rights, then you can't possibly think that is a good idea,

for instance, they think no country borders is a good thing,
if you are a farmer, and 100 pantifa's show up and set up camp in your cornfield, that is also acceptable to them

now sure, they will say, you are taking it out of context,
no, because then they are talking out of both sides of their mouth, with no principles

or thousands of mutts crossing the border and heading north is perfectly acceptable, as they are just looking to make their lives better,

all cool and all, but at whose expense? For someone to take, math states there must be a debit to someone else. By even stepping foot here, make no mistake, they are taking from someone or group of someones.

this then boils down to they are infringing on the rights of you and your neighbors
 

Bigjon

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#80
chris,
I call that the free range humans policy,
or in my parlance, free range 2 leggahs

and it is the primary reason I wouldn't even consider a libertard

in a altruistic globalist view, you can make an argument for it,
but if you actually believe in self determination, and property rights, then you can't possibly think that is a good idea,

for instance, they think no country borders is a good thing,
if you are a farmer, and 100 pantifa's show up and set up camp in your cornfield, that is also acceptable to them

now sure, they will say, you are taking it out of context,
no, because then they are talking out of both sides of their mouth, with no principles

or thousands of mutts crossing the border and heading north is perfectly acceptable, as they are just looking to make their lives better,

all cool and all, but at whose expense? For someone to take, math states there must be a debit to someone else. By even stepping foot here, make no mistake, they are taking from someone or group of someones.

this then boils down to they are infringing on the rights of you and your neighbors
To think that once upon a time we were all RP delegates.

I don't recall any libertarians insisting in open borders back then. I was pretty sure we knew the only way it could work is with a limited land area.