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workin man

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I was religiously screwing off each board as I replace them to avoid exactly what happened the one time I didn't! I had cut out and made a new piece that was only a foot and a half long by 6"-8" in wide. I had been kneeling down but stood up to grab something and just happened to twist and turn in the right way and my foot pushed the board away and down I went getting wedged in between the boards. The back of my thigh as a lump and dark, dark bruising. I could tell was pretty deep and bad when it happened and finished the day on adrenaline. By the time I got home and had slowed down I could barely put weight on my leg.
Sounds painful, good thing you didn't also hit the ground.

Roof is looking good. Are you using rough cedar where you have to replace the oak?
 

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Sounds painful, good thing you didn't also hit the ground.

Roof is looking good. Are you using rough cedar where you have to replace the oak?
Thanks, yes. 1x6x 7/8" rough sawn cedar. A 16' er is like $35
 

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Thanks, yes. 1x6x 7/8" rough sawn cedar. A 16' er is like $35
Cha ching. Lumber is pricey these days. Steel still seems pretty reasonable - planning a 35 x 45 steel structure/cover. Welded structural steel with 24 g corrugated roof and sides. Rollup doors.
 

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I was religiously screwing off each board as I replace them to avoid exactly what happened the one time I didn't! I had cut out and made a new piece that was only a foot and a half long by 6"-8" in wide. I had been kneeling down but stood up to grab something and just happened to twist and turn in the right way and my foot pushed the board away and down I went getting wedged in between the boards. The back of my thigh as a lump and dark, dark bruising. I could tell was pretty deep and bad when it happened and finished the day on adrenaline. By the time I got home and had slowed down I could barely put weight on my leg.
wait till you put on a few more years and do something like that.......i did a similar thing to my chest this last winter (was flipping a wing down on a field disc n caught me in the chest) was hard to breath for a week or so...
 

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wait till you put on a few more years and do something like that.......i did a similar thing to my chest this last winter (was flipping a wing down on a field disc n caught me in the chest) was hard to breath for a week or so...
That would hurt at any age - just a little slower recovery as an old man :)
 

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I was religiously screwing off each board as I replace them to avoid exactly what happened the one time I didn't! I had cut out and made a new piece that was only a foot and a half long by 6"-8" in wide. I had been kneeling down but stood up to grab something and just happened to twist and turn in the right way and my foot pushed the board away and down I went getting wedged in between the boards. The back of my thigh as a lump and dark, dark bruising. I could tell was pretty deep and bad when it happened and finished the day on adrenaline. By the time I got home and had slowed down I could barely put weight on my leg.
Always hurts more at the end of the day. Hope it heals quick. Joys of being self employed is you can't file a boo boo report to yourself.
 

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Cha ching. Lumber is pricey these days. Steel still seems pretty reasonable - planning a 35 x 45 steel structure/cover. Welded structural steel with 24 g corrugated roof and sides. Rollup doors.
I've seen roofing panels around same cost as shingles but fqctor the hardware into the equation and it comes out costing more. Still a better product.
 

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Cha ching. Lumber is pricey these days. Steel still seems pretty reasonable - planning a 35 x 45 steel structure/cover. Welded structural steel with 24 g corrugated roof and sides. Rollup doors.
24ga? .......standing seam? "R"? .....just curious....rare to see 24ga in lap panels but i much prefer it to 26ga to walk on at 5' centers...(not sure what is considered corrugated in your area)
 

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newmisty

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Okay so I finally have some time and energy to talk about something.

Injuries like that one of the easiest things to deal with. The heat, dust, the mold, the weather, cuts, scrapes, puncture wounds, nails in the feet... Are all easier to deal with than this...

So I told she shed Sheila that I was going to search for a suitable replacement for the rough sawn sheathing. She said hold on let me make a few calls. I thought great I'm happy to have some of the duties lightened up as things are taking longer than anticipated. So she gets back to me and said she found them at the local lumber yard and blah blah blah. I said are those oak or Cedar? She says cedar, the whole shed is made from cedar. I said actually it's all Oak. She says no it's Cedar. So I said actually all of the framing and the sheathing are oak. She says well my friends husband who works at the lumber yard gave me the blah blah.... I said I guarantee you everything that I've seen is Oak. There may be a few things here and there that are Cedar but everything that I've touched so far is Oak. She gets short with me and says well I don't want to argue but 25 years ago my friend's husband blah blah blah. Is it okay I'm not trying to argue either but I'm just telling you what it is.

Long story short she didn't accept what I had to say in our phone conversation and we ended it.

I should have preface this with the fact that I had someone helping me and we work a long day until 9: 30 p. M. sure sure that we had all of the sheathing on the pyramid completed that night. The next day I was totally beat and fortunately we had rain. Whether it was that day or the next day, I don't remember now, forecast called for afternoon thunderstorms and I decided so hold off until the next day. Well later I get a text from her saying that she's sad that I missed a beautiful day to work. After that text which left a very bad taste in my mouth, we have the conversation where she refused to accept my professional and hands-on opinion because "muh friend".

At this point I was upset. Prior to the start of this project she had been abnormally stressed out and impatient. and I have the shirt her that once I completed the jobs I was on she had my full and undivided attention. They also told me that they were in no rush since this happened way back in October. Meanwhile I'm working until 9: 30 at night make headway on this that's some stupid text about being sad that I missed a good day to work followed by the ignorant refusal to accept objective reality.

A lot was running through my mind and I feel very uneasy. I desperately want to talk to her and explain things from my perspective but I knew it wasn't going to be that easy. Well fortunately the next day I was working her husband popped over to check in. I was immediately like I've got some stuff I need to say. I said she shed Sheila thinks this is all Cedar, but I'm assuring you it is all oak. Part of the reason that's important is that this is one of the things that is causing things to take longer. Trying to pull apart that Oak with those 25 year old rusty nails can be damn near impossible. at that point I presented him the little pile of wood scraps that I specifically set aside for she shed Sheila to bring to a woodworker, or other professional who could help her identify the type of wood that it actually was. I then gave him a piece of the o followed by a piece of the Cedar and told him to feel the difference in weight and density etc. Before I could get that out though he said oh don't try to argue with her I tried that before and rolled his eyes and slightly chuckled. Remember they've been married for 52 years. I said yeah I'm not trying to argue I'm just trying to clarify the facts because it's important to the overall understanding of the project. I also brought up the text message and said I'm pouring my heart and soul into this thing and I don't appreciate that sentimentality. He rambled about some nonsense and we were all good.

The sad thing is that she acts like it never happened and seemingly has no interest in understanding the reality of the situation. What hurts me the most was the feeling of disregard for my professional opinion and that if she doesn't trust what I'm telling her in this regard how much trust is she actually have in me. Bright in reality she's just a nother lost American living in fear of reality.

What it all boils down to is that I had just dealt with a very difficult client and we started off bonding over her plants, animals and hee healthy hobby. I meant to be let my guard down and became a little complacent in the back of my mind that I finally got an easy-going client again. Shoulda known better.

There are so many things that are difficult about performing on a renovation project like this that people are oblivious to. They have so many pit conceived notions and are often unable to grasp the depth of what is actually involved in both time and materials that all I can think of is writing a little handbook covering a whole bunch of stuff to give a client before a job so if they can sit back and shut up and let me do my thing. But of course it really wouldn't do much good because they only see what they want to see anyway. What's the last client whom I sent two invoices to both explicitly stating how to make payments and when to make the payments and then asks me how does he make the payments.

To summarize, none of this is easy and ignorant/stupid/unempathetic people just make it harder and more stressful.

Thank you for letting me vent. I needed that.

PS, trying to type on this mini phone keyboard and use talk text pharaoh please bear with any typos/ incongruencies
 

newmisty

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Last week the got a gas meter added and they moved them to the back of the building. Spent this morning gasing up the boiler and furnace. Got an air test on and then should be ready for startup. Most of the material used was left over from jobs over the years. Also floors coming along nicely and quarts countertops are in.

View attachment 179513
View attachment 179514
View attachment 179515
View attachment 179517
Having been there craftsperson for many years and working for some very fussy people I've trained my eye for many details.

At this point it's kind of like a radar gun. I send out a signal and when it bounces back into his return to comes with a message. For me it's a very intuitive thing. Like when I look at something that is subpar or compromised i get a subtle anxiety/queasiness or sense of urgency inside.
Conversely when I see work that has been done by thoughtful, skilled people, there is a refreshing calm and quiet feeling I get. The best word to describe it is clean. So at this point at a glance I can pretty much tell the efficacy of the craftsman or fuggin idgit as it were.

All that said, I get that clean, crisp, thoughtful feeling looking at your work.
 

hammerhead

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Okay so I finally have some time and energy to talk about something.

Injuries like that one of the easiest things to deal with. The heat, dust, the mold, the weather, cuts, scrapes, puncture wounds, nails in the feet... Are all easier to deal with than this...

So I told she shed Sheila that I was going to search for a suitable replacement for the rough sawn sheathing. She said hold on let me make a few calls. I thought great I'm happy to have some of the duties lightened up as things are taking longer than anticipated. So she gets back to me and said she found them at the local lumber yard and blah blah blah. I said are those oak or Cedar? She says cedar, the whole shed is made from cedar. I said actually it's all Oak. She says no it's Cedar. So I said actually all of the framing and the sheathing are oak. She says well my friends husband who works at the lumber yard gave me the blah blah.... I said I guarantee you everything that I've seen is Oak. There may be a few things here and there that are Cedar but everything that I've touched so far is Oak. She gets short with me and says well I don't want to argue but 25 years ago my friend's husband blah blah blah. Is it okay I'm not trying to argue either but I'm just telling you what it is.

Long story short she didn't accept what I had to say in our phone conversation and we ended it.

I should have preface this with the fact that I had someone helping me and we work a long day until 9: 30 p. M. sure sure that we had all of the sheathing on the pyramid completed that night. The next day I was totally beat and fortunately we had rain. Whether it was that day or the next day, I don't remember now, forecast called for afternoon thunderstorms and I decided so hold off until the next day. Well later I get a text from her saying that she's sad that I missed a beautiful day to work. After that text which left a very bad taste in my mouth, we have the conversation where she refused to accept my professional and hands-on opinion because "muh friend".

At this point I was upset. Prior to the start of this project she had been abnormally stressed out and impatient. and I have the shirt her that once I completed the jobs I was on she had my full and undivided attention. They also told me that they were in no rush since this happened way back in October. Meanwhile I'm working until 9: 30 at night make headway on this that's some stupid text about being sad that I missed a good day to work followed by the ignorant refusal to accept objective reality.

A lot was running through my mind and I feel very uneasy. I desperately want to talk to her and explain things from my perspective but I knew it wasn't going to be that easy. Well fortunately the next day I was working her husband popped over to check in. I was immediately like I've got some stuff I need to say. I said she shed Sheila thinks this is all Cedar, but I'm assuring you it is all oak. Part of the reason that's important is that this is one of the things that is causing things to take longer. Trying to pull apart that Oak with those 25 year old rusty nails can be damn near impossible. at that point I presented him the little pile of wood scraps that I specifically set aside for she shed Sheila to bring to a woodworker, or other professional who could help her identify the type of wood that it actually was. I then gave him a piece of the o followed by a piece of the Cedar and told him to feel the difference in weight and density etc. Before I could get that out though he said oh don't try to argue with her I tried that before and rolled his eyes and slightly chuckled. Remember they've been married for 52 years. I said yeah I'm not trying to argue I'm just trying to clarify the facts because it's important to the overall understanding of the project. I also brought up the text message and said I'm pouring my heart and soul into this thing and I don't appreciate that sentimentality. He rambled about some nonsense and we were all good.

The sad thing is that she acts like it never happened and seemingly has no interest in understanding the reality of the situation. What hurts me the most was the feeling of disregard for my professional opinion and that if she doesn't trust what I'm telling her in this regard how much trust is she actually have in me. Bright in reality she's just a nother lost American living in fear of reality.

What it all boils down to is that I had just dealt with a very difficult client and we started off bonding over her plants, animals and hee healthy hobby. I meant to be let my guard down and became a little complacent in the back of my mind that I finally got an easy-going client again. Shoulda known better.

There are so many things that are difficult about performing on a renovation project like this that people are oblivious to. They have so many pit conceived notions and are often unable to grasp the depth of what is actually involved in both time and materials that all I can think of is writing a little handbook covering a whole bunch of stuff to give a client before a job so if they can sit back and shut up and let me do my thing. But of course it really wouldn't do much good because they only see what they want to see anyway. What's the last client whom I sent two invoices to both explicitly stating how to make payments and when to make the payments and then asks me how does he make the payments.

To summarize, none of this is easy and ignorant/stupid/unempathetic people just make it harder and more stressful.

Thank you for letting me vent. I needed that.

PS, trying to type on this mini phone keyboard and use talk text pharaoh please bear with any typos/ incongruencies
Make a waiver for them to sign in the contract that states you are the boss and they don't know jack.
 

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ttazzman

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.....
The company I buy from calls it S-deck, but it's corrugated. You can even get it in 22 g. They also have standing seam systems, they'll even rent you the seamer.

https://www.berridge.com/products/exposed-fastener-panel-systems/s-deck-panel/

View attachment 179534
yep ...thats what i call corrugated also.....did some business with berridge umteen years ago they have been around for many years......

i am curious as to the reason your choosing to use the "s" panel ...in that it is not a commonly used profile other than for architectural applications and can be difficult to keep from leaking (but enough slope will keep anything from leaking :) )
 
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ttazzman

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Make a waiver for them to sign in the contract that states you are the boss and they don't know jack.
or just do what they want .......2nd time is on their dime .......i always figured as long as they were paying they could be as stupid as they wanted....its when the payments slowed down i had issues with clients

IE...johnny morris in springfield mo at the original bass pro shops would sometimes want things done and redone over n over....till it met his personal artisitic approval....not a problem as long as the dont mind paying..........doesnt bother me to call Oak Cedar if that is what they want to hear and their checks dont bounce
 

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Make a waiver for them to sign in the contract that states you are the boss and they don't know jack.
You do that with body language and attitude - you have to stayed detached and professional. A little intimidating - that doesn't mean scary, more like project yourself as the best there is, an expert, and play the part, that also means dress the part, have all the tools, pull up in the best truck you can afford, always busy with places to go and things to do. Bid high and don't flinch, never act desperate for the job.

Never let them think they know more than you. When she questioned you about the type of wood - set her in her place forcefully, with expertise, never anger or emotion - take a piece of each kind of wood and plane it down to clean wood, both species, and act like you are teaching a child - explain that one is deciduous, one is a conifer - the oak is a hardwood, the cedar is a soft wood. Different densities, different weights. Act mildly irritated if they pull anything out of their ass...
 

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.....


yep ...thats what i call corrugated also.....did some business with berridge umteen years ago they have been around for many years......

i am curious as to the reason your choosing to use the "s" panel ...in that it is not a commonly used profile other than for architectural applications and can be difficult to keep from leaking (but enough slope will keep anything from leaking :) )
I'm using corrugated for architectural purposes, economy, and easy application. The S panel is 7/8 deep corrugation and I've never had any issues with leaking, but this is not for residential use or sheet-rocked. I fasten the old school way, on the high of the S, never on the low (for roofing), even though that is not how the manufacturer recommends. But the heavy gauge material is very stable, the corrugation doesn't spread or collapse. I've seen 100 year old corrugated done that way with no leaks, whereas fastening on the low of the S can fail for a number of reasons, including not seating the washer properly, over seating, woobled holes, UV damaged washers after 10 or 15 years. You can have failures on the high of the S and not get a leak. My application is fastening into steel, not wood - but I've done both and never had issues. Corrugated is for barns, covers, out buildings, etc. I wouldn't use it for a house roof, although it is fashionable around here for that purpose.

I used to buy 2nds from one of the Berridge sons in San Antonio way back - cheap. Built my shop, a barn, covers, porches, etc.
 

ttazzman

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I'm using corrugated for architectural purposes, economy, and easy application. The S panel is 7/8 deep corrugation and I've never had any issues with leaking, but this is not for residential use or sheet-rocked. I fasten the old school way, on the high of the S, never on the low (for roofing), even though that is not how the manufacturer recommends. But the heavy gauge material is very stable, the corrugation doesn't spread or collapse. I've seen 100 year old corrugated done that way with no leaks, whereas fastening on the low of the S can fail for a number of reasons, including not seating the washer properly, over seating, woobled holes, UV damaged washers after 10 or 15 years. You can have failures on the high of the S and not get a leak. My application is fastening into steel, not wood - but I've done both and never had issues. Corrugated is for barns, covers, out buildings, etc. I wouldn't use it for a house roof, although it is fashionable around here for that purpose.

I used to buy 2nds from one of the Berridge sons in San Antonio way back - cheap. Built my shop, a barn, covers, porches, etc.
im asking out of true quest for knowledge and curiosity........have been involved in litterally millions of sq ft of industrial low slope roofs ....and this product is different than any i have used over the years...other than for pure architectural reasons.........

i have seen of corse "barn tin" both valley nailed and ridge nailed to wood........since your ridge attaching and obviously screwing due to steel to steel with washered screws.....do you have any practical application issues with piercing the ridge and getting the correct cinch down on the ridge screw application?? pre-drill or self drilling screws? how far do you span the sheets?
 

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I feel misty's agravation. Tried to help a guy out, did everything right and the guy was a total bitch. Ego tripping or screw lose.
worst client i ever had was two brothers that we were building convience stores for ...one would visit in the morning and make plan changes..........the other would stop by in the afternoon and negate or make changes........then when it was all done they didnt want to pay for the back n forth changes .......but i did get my money and even though i was asked refused to do more work for them
 

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im asking out of true quest for knowledge and curiosity........have been involved in litterally millions of sq ft of industrial low slope roofs ....and this product is different than any i have used over the years...other than for pure architectural reasons.........

i have seen of corse "barn tin" both valley nailed and ridge nailed to wood........since your ridge attaching and obviously screwing due to steel to steel with washered screws.....do you have any practical application issues with piercing the ridge and getting the correct cinch down on the ridge screw application?? pre-drill or self drilling screws? how far do you span the sheets?
Unfortunately, to properly cinch the panels to the steel, you have to pre-drill (lots of drill bits get used), and use self drilling screws and set the proper torque. My last project was 4 ' spans. No buckling, no denting. It can be real windy out here in the high desert, and the steel structure with 24 g corrugated stays quiet, no flapping noises - it has stayed cinched as tight as when I put it on.

I can get 26 g R panels real easy and less expensive out here, but I don't like the look of it. I'll go to more trouble and little more expense to get 24g corrugated - its got a more timely look and holds up to hail also. Aesthetics help on resale too. Cheap and Aesthetic, good combo.
 

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I feel misty's agravation. Tried to help a guy out, did everything right and the guy was a total bitch. Ego tripping or screw lose.
Heh, well you should have witnessed my last client. Asian guy, a friggin Jew on steroids. I had to put the smack down on him big time after giving him a very generous amount of slack. I uncorked two weeks of his BS back on to him in 60 seconds after he crossed the red line.
I feel misty's agravation. Tried to help a guy out, did everything right and the guy was a total bitch. Ego tripping or screw lose.
And some are just plain dumb!
 

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Unfortunately, to properly cinch the panels to the steel, you have to pre-drill (lots of drill bits get used), and use self drilling screws and set the proper torque. My last project was 4 ' spans. No buckling, no denting. It can be real windy out here in the high desert, and the steel structure with 24 g corrugated stays quiet, no flapping noises - it has stayed cinched as tight as when I put it on.

I can get 26 g R panels real easy and less expensive out here, but I don't like the look of it. I'll go to more trouble and little more expense to get 24g corrugated - its got a more timely look and holds up to hail also. Aesthetics help on resale too. Cheap and Aesthetic, good combo.
there is definitely a huge step up with 24ga strength wise........if you need some information like purlin span tables or steel beam or column loads i still have the old books from before computerized designs
 

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You do that with body language and attitude - you have to stayed detached and professional. A little intimidating - that doesn't mean scary, more like project yourself as the best there is, an expert, and play the part, that also means dress the part, have all the tools, pull up in the best truck you can afford, always busy with places to go and things to do. Bid high and don't flinch, never act desperate for the job.

Never let them think they know more than you. When she questioned you about the type of wood - set her in her place forcefully, with expertise, never anger or emotion - take a piece of each kind of wood and plane it down to clean wood, both species, and act like you are teaching a child - explain that one is deciduous, one is a conifer - the oak is a hardwood, the cedar is a soft wood. Different densities, different weights. Act mildly irritated if they pull anything out of their ass...
Gotta remember that it's a business. I'm usually happy just to perform a service.
 

hammerhead

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Unfortunately, to properly cinch the panels to the steel, you have to pre-drill (lots of drill bits get used), and use self drilling screws and set the proper torque. My last project was 4 ' spans. No buckling, no denting. It can be real windy out here in the high desert, and the steel structure with 24 g corrugated stays quiet, no flapping noises - it has stayed cinched as tight as when I put it on.

I can get 26 g R panels real easy and less expensive out here, but I don't like the look of it. I'll go to more trouble and little more expense to get 24g corrugated - its got a more timely look and holds up to hail also. Aesthetics help on resale too. Cheap and Aesthetic, good combo.
there is definitely a huge step up with 24ga strength wise........if you need some information like purlin span tables or steel beam or column loads i still have the old books from before computerized designs
Do you guys caulk the overlapping seams?
 

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Do you guys caulk the overlapping seams?
Before viable commercial standing seam roof was introduced to the market ...we did huge warehouse roofs with "r" type roofs at slopes as low as 1/4-12 and those roofs we used butyl seam tape and those are still viable and performing today 40 years later.....above 1/12 roof slopes no seam tape......1/2-12 sometimes....as you move more north into heavier ice n snow areas the slope requirement for seam tape goes up......we applied that rule to both end and side laps

edit to add...usually the first issue with exposed screw roofs is the sealing rubber on the screw or slotting due to incorrect allowances for expansion and contraction of roof metal
 
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Before viable commercial standing seam roof was introduced to the market ...we did huge warehouse roofs with "r" type roofs at slopes as low as 1/4-12 and those roofs we used butyl seam tape and those are still viable and performing today 40 years later.....above 1/12 roof slopes no seam tape......1/2-12 sometimes....as you move more north into heavier ice n snow areas the slope requirement for seam tape goes up......we applied that rule to both end and side laps
How does the seam tape get applied?
 

ttazzman

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How does the seam tape get applied?
happen to have some in the shop....its the consistancy of bubble gum and sticky.....so un-roll n stick then remove the paper .......once you place the panel it can be almost impossible to re-position the metal due to its stickyness ...

personally i liked to put the tape right on top of the rib in the lap and either carefully screw thru it or screw on the dry side of the tape .

the tape comes in countless widths/thicknesses profiles etc and as long as its not exposed to sunlight will remain gummy forever this tape roll i took a picture of in my shop has to be close to 15yrs old and still sticky like new and is 1/8 x 1/2
seam tape (Large).jpg
 

newmisty

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I mean I just love getting paid to play live action Donkey Kong.


IMG_20200911_154654130_HDR.jpg
 

davycoppitt

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12 hour day getting the floor down and ready for the trim guys tomorrow. Plumbers and trimmers will be there. Plumbers just need to set the water heaters and fixtures then they are out of there. Electricians and garage door guys are all that's left. Sheet rockers finished downstairs. Its pretty much just on us to get it up and running now.
Went with thick vinyl flooring ( one piece). Made a template out of rosin paper.

Close on the three plex tomorrow.

3444.jpg

floor 3.jpg
 

hammerhead

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Any suggestions on how to ma
12 hour day getting the floor down and ready for the trim guys tomorrow. Plumbers and trimmers will be there. Plumbers just need to set the water heaters and fixtures then they are out of there. Electricians and garage door guys are all that's left. Sheet rockers finished downstairs. Its pretty much just on us to get it up and running now.
Went with thick vinyl flooring ( one piece). Made a template out of rosin paper.

Close on the three plex tomorrow.

View attachment 180396
View attachment 180397
davy, is flooring in kitchen vinyl or ceramic?
 

Uglytruth

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WTF? Waffles?
 

davycoppitt

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Any suggestions on how to ma

davy, is flooring in kitchen vinyl or ceramic?

Very thick and expensive vinyl. Even in person looks like real tile. We had to move the full roll with pipes because it was so heavy. If it holds up I will never use laminate again. Also feels awesome on the feet.
 

hammerhead

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Very thick and expensive vinyl. Even in person looks like real tile. We had to move the full roll with pipes because it was so heavy. If it holds up I will never use laminate again. Also feels awesome on the feet.
Just reread what you posted. Missed the description of the flooring. Must have gotten distracted. That should last forever.
 

BigJim#1-8

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Finally got the new mantle mounted. Next step staining.
Click on picture & it posts right side up.
 

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