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workin man
- Thread starter stonedywankanobe
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- Joined
- Apr 1, 2010
- Messages
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Been at a new account for the past week. They have had contractor after contractor come in and walk right out the door. So we walk in and stick me there. The building is 15 years old. It has one of the nicest HVAC systems I have ever seen and its completely destroyed. All filters were original from 15 years ago. Boiler screwed up in every way imaginable, chiller screwed up, and 44 chilled water fan coil units rusted through from condensation. Also mold everywhere from them ripping the insulation off the chilled water pipe during remodels and not replacing it.
Picture is 1/4 of a fan coil. This is everywhere. When they remodeled they ran the walls right over the top of them. No way to take out filter, no way to service without removing the entire wall.
When the owner asked how much I thought it would cost to get the building back to normal I said about 1/2 million. He thought I was joking, but wasn't. HAHAHAHAHAHAH Still laughing when I think about it. Owner of our company and I are headed out there next week to get them on a 5 year plan to do a little every year.
Picture is 1/4 of a fan coil. This is everywhere. When they remodeled they ran the walls right over the top of them. No way to take out filter, no way to service without removing the entire wall.
When the owner asked how much I thought it would cost to get the building back to normal I said about 1/2 million. He thought I was joking, but wasn't. HAHAHAHAHAHAH Still laughing when I think about it. Owner of our company and I are headed out there next week to get them on a 5 year plan to do a little every year.
Davy,
Does it ever cease to amaze you just how dumb people can be? Not just your average person but someone successful enough to own and install that system in this type of building. What I can't figure is how they rarely go broke, just on karma alone they should have lose it all and start over with stupid camp.
I love a well engineered system, sold a bunch of custom operating room suites that had to do massive air /temperature change in a matter of minutes to maximum utilization, total customizable as each fancy doc had there own standards... freezing cold in there, I swear they just wanted to see those nurses points.
Does it ever cease to amaze you just how dumb people can be? Not just your average person but someone successful enough to own and install that system in this type of building. What I can't figure is how they rarely go broke, just on karma alone they should have lose it all and start over with stupid camp.
I love a well engineered system, sold a bunch of custom operating room suites that had to do massive air /temperature change in a matter of minutes to maximum utilization, total customizable as each fancy doc had there own standards... freezing cold in there, I swear they just wanted to see those nurses points.
I simply can't believe it!
So my coil nailer got jammed a couple of times when doing the roof. The first time it happened I realize that I was missing an O-ring but kept going. The second time to jam up happen I ended up losing the little swivel plate at the nose. I had taken it off during the previous Jam and it has two very small Springs that's it in between the plate to allow it to maneuver. It was tricky getting the two springs in there and the whole thing set but very doable. when the second Gym happened I lost the whole swivel plate and both Springs just went flying while on the roof. I took a glance down and around and of course they were long gone.
Well lo and behold while I was sweeping up some of the granules on the roof I saw the small spring get swept onto the dustpan. I was happy and surprised but I was still missing the other spring and knew that it was a lost cause. I mean I've got enough trouble finding large tools let alone a tiny little spring!
Well a short time later when I was organizing my fasteners sure enough the second spring was sitting inside one of the small containers that it had fatefully fallen into. Put it back together use the small wire to replace o'ring and finished the job with no more problems. First thing that's gone right for me on this job yet! I swear this thing is cursed.
So my coil nailer got jammed a couple of times when doing the roof. The first time it happened I realize that I was missing an O-ring but kept going. The second time to jam up happen I ended up losing the little swivel plate at the nose. I had taken it off during the previous Jam and it has two very small Springs that's it in between the plate to allow it to maneuver. It was tricky getting the two springs in there and the whole thing set but very doable. when the second Gym happened I lost the whole swivel plate and both Springs just went flying while on the roof. I took a glance down and around and of course they were long gone.
Well lo and behold while I was sweeping up some of the granules on the roof I saw the small spring get swept onto the dustpan. I was happy and surprised but I was still missing the other spring and knew that it was a lost cause. I mean I've got enough trouble finding large tools let alone a tiny little spring!
Well a short time later when I was organizing my fasteners sure enough the second spring was sitting inside one of the small containers that it had fatefully fallen into. Put it back together use the small wire to replace o'ring and finished the job with no more problems. First thing that's gone right for me on this job yet! I swear this thing is cursed.
Last edited:
Selecting Caulk
By Bill Robinson
DOWNLOAD THE PDF VERSION OF THIS ARTICLE. (882.12 KB)
We have come a long way from tar and oakum for patching leaks. Now there are caulks and sealants with chemistry that makes them stick to other materials, stretch to as much as 100% of the installed width, and last more than just a couple of years. That said, I advise thinking of caulk joints as temporary at best. They will always need periodic inspection. Even if they last many years, the service life of even a high-quality caulk is significantly shorter than the service life of the materials they are sealing.
Ted Cushman
There are a wide range of chemistries used in caulks, adhesives, and sealants. This article covers the ones I have found to be the most common in residential and light-commercial construction. We in the residential construction industry have not kept up well with the advances in chemistry, and while I try to stay informed on this topic, I am aware that the landscape is constantly changing.
In particular, it is time to adjust to the 21st century of high-performing caulks and sealants by getting into the habit of checking the manufacturers’ tech sheets. I work with five different types of caulk—water-based, solvent-based, polyurethane, silicone, and modified polymers. This last category mostly includes silane modified polymers and other chemical hybrids that have emerged in the last decade; they are typically proprietary formulations but have some common characteristics that allow us to group them together. Each of these types has a purpose, and rather than looking for a one-size-fits-all caulk, I suggest you identify the things you use caulk for, select the appropriate caulk for each use, and then make sure it is used as intended.
Water-based caulks typically clean up with water and cure on evaporation. Anything that cures on evaporation will shrink. Most water-based caulks are 40% to 60% solids (with some exceptions). When the caulk cures, it shrinks to the percentage of solids in the mix. Sometimes it is difficult to tell from the label what the chemistry is, but a clear “tell” of a water-based caulk is a warning on the tube to keep it from freezing. Another is marketing language that says something like “easy water cleanup.”
Ola DeKorneAcrylic caulks, even ones “with silicone,” will shrink when they cure, and are best suited for interior uses.
Be aware that an acrylic or latex caulk that has been “siliconized” is still a water-based caulk that will shrink. I would not use such caulk on the exterior of a building. I like water-based caulks for covering up joints in trim on the interior. For anything else, I steer clear of them.
Solvent-based caulks. The solvent is typically mineral spirits and, similar to a water-based caulk, a solvent-based caulk cures on evaporation of the solvent. That means it will shrink, though typically a little less than water-based formulations.
Solvent-based caulks are typically 60% to 80% solids and will shrink to 20% to 40% of their original dimension. They are typically very sticky and therefore adhere well to substrates. In official terms, they typically have good cohesion (meaning the material sticks well to itself) and adhesion (meaning it sticks well to a properly prepared substrate).
The primary consideration for a solvent-based caulk is that the curing process will off-gas some solvent material, which means high VOCs and a short-term hazard to indoor air quality. I steer clear of them for interior use, but these caulks are very good outside and typically come in several colors. I like to use them when I need a color-matched caulk for siding.
Polyurethane caulks cure on exposure to the moisture in the air. Since they do not cure by evaporation like water- and solvent-based caulks, they do not shrink when they cure. They are nearly 100% solids—you get what you squeeze out of the tube. Based on what I hear from a wide range of exterior contractors, polyurethanes are typically the preferred caulk for exterior use. The downside of polyurethanes is they do not stand up well to UV light and have to be replaced after a few years of exposure to the sun.
Silicone caulks. I am talking about pure silicone sealant, not a “siliconized” formulation. Pure silicone is a nearly 100% solids material that cures on exposure to the moisture in the air. It does not “dry,” and that means it does not shrink. Mistakenly, many people believe silicone is the go-to sealant for all applications and make a lot of assumptions about what silicone caulk can do.
A true silicone doesn’t shrink much and works best for sealing nonporous materials, such as glass and tile; it’s often a good choice for wet-area applications.
Not all formulations are equal. There are two basic types of silicone caulk—acetoxy and oxime. The acetoxy formulation is what you will usually find on the shelves at lumberyards and big box stores. These caulks release acetic acid when curing, giving off a vinegar smell that can be an irritant to some people. Clear, 100% acetoxy formulations are unpaintable; the paint does not adhere to them and separates from the caulk. The biggest problem with acetoxy silicones, though, is they can cause corrosion of some materials. This was a bigger problem in the past, when silicone sealant technology was new and there was too much “free acid” in a lot of formulations. But even now, with mature product lines, adhesion and corrosion can be problems on acrylic, PVC, ABS, galvanized steel, and brass, depending on the product line.
Oxime formulations are “neutral cure”—meaning they release pH-neutral substances that are noncorrosive—and are specified by many material manufacturers to avoid the possibility of corrosion.
Silicones bond well to nonporous substrates like tile, glass, and most metals but don’t work as well on porous materials like stone, masonry, and unpainted wood. They work well for wet areas, like baths and kitchens. I also use neutral-cure silicone to apply silicone bulb as weatherstripping on door astragals. In commercial applications, silicone is the go-to product for structural glazing.
Advanced polymers include caulks labeled MS (modified silicone) polymer, STPE (silyl terminated polyether), or a “hybrid.” They are nearly 100% solids—so they do not shrink—they cure on exposure to moisture in the air, and they have great adhesion, cohesion, expansion, and durability. Many of the newer liquid flashing products fit into this category.
Gene SummyFor exterior applications, the author prefers advanced polymers, such as this one from Henry Company.
These are my preferred caulks for almost all exterior applications: They are usually easy to work with because they are typically more viscous (thicker), but you need to use a good caulk gun that has a higher thrust ratio (meaning the plunger moves a short distance for each full pump of the trigger). Some tend to skin over quickly, a property that is useful to me when I work in a light rain, because I don’t need to worry about the caulk diluting before it cures. Since we are covering a wide range of sealant materials in this category, it is wise to confirm in the tech sheets available on the manufacturer’s website that the sealant has the particular properties you want. (If the manufacturer is being cagey about revealing the material, check the MSDS, where manufacturers have to identify the ingredients.)
The organization of caulk types in this article is based on my experience. In particular, several years ago I worked on an EIFS (exterior insulation and finish system) project in California. After beginning the project, we learned that the window manufacturer would not warranty its product when installed with residential EIFS. But we were already underway: The windows had been purchased and we had to make it work. To learn more about EIFS applications, I met with a waterproofer who was well-versed in commercial work, especially EIFS installations, and it was an amazing “aha” moment for me when he said he was not familiar with water- or solvent-based caulks in his usual work. This surprised me, because in our residential world, for the most part, contractors favor a certain water- or solvent-based caulk, either because of the easy cleanup (for water-based) or for the variety of colors (for solvent-based). At the waterproofer’s suggestion, we selected a neutral-cure silicone for our EIFS project, and we were able to get a warranty from the window manufacturer once we disclosed our application details.
The ASTM certifications are an easy specification to look for on the label. The author suggests that any product that has not gone through the testing and certification process may not be the best choice for quality work.
That job put me on a track to learn more about caulks and sealants (as well as adhesives and tapes—other everyday products in our world of construction for which some understanding of chemistry is helpful). In particular, that job gave me an appreciation for how important the right sealant is for each job. Different product manufacturers can be picky about what they will and won’t accept. In the commercial construction world, this is much more controlled. In residential work, there are fewer controls and a lot of assumptions are made. It’s worth pushing for tighter specs on the sealants you use. Don’t just grab any caulk off the shelf if you are concerned for performance and longer durability. As a general rule, on any exterior, weather-sensitive application, we should be using high-solids-content caulks with good adhesion and cohesion. It’s also important to define the properties you want, as the brands and the chemical formulations change over time.
I’ve discussed my preferred caulks here, but you might have your own preferences or know of brands I have not used. Once you find what works, of course, share what you learn with your crew and trade partners, provide them training, and above all, push them to use best practices for installing caulks and sealants (which is the subject of a different article).
https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/ex...cle&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=JLC_100420&
By Bill Robinson
DOWNLOAD THE PDF VERSION OF THIS ARTICLE. (882.12 KB)
We have come a long way from tar and oakum for patching leaks. Now there are caulks and sealants with chemistry that makes them stick to other materials, stretch to as much as 100% of the installed width, and last more than just a couple of years. That said, I advise thinking of caulk joints as temporary at best. They will always need periodic inspection. Even if they last many years, the service life of even a high-quality caulk is significantly shorter than the service life of the materials they are sealing.
There are a wide range of chemistries used in caulks, adhesives, and sealants. This article covers the ones I have found to be the most common in residential and light-commercial construction. We in the residential construction industry have not kept up well with the advances in chemistry, and while I try to stay informed on this topic, I am aware that the landscape is constantly changing.
In particular, it is time to adjust to the 21st century of high-performing caulks and sealants by getting into the habit of checking the manufacturers’ tech sheets. I work with five different types of caulk—water-based, solvent-based, polyurethane, silicone, and modified polymers. This last category mostly includes silane modified polymers and other chemical hybrids that have emerged in the last decade; they are typically proprietary formulations but have some common characteristics that allow us to group them together. Each of these types has a purpose, and rather than looking for a one-size-fits-all caulk, I suggest you identify the things you use caulk for, select the appropriate caulk for each use, and then make sure it is used as intended.
Water-based caulks typically clean up with water and cure on evaporation. Anything that cures on evaporation will shrink. Most water-based caulks are 40% to 60% solids (with some exceptions). When the caulk cures, it shrinks to the percentage of solids in the mix. Sometimes it is difficult to tell from the label what the chemistry is, but a clear “tell” of a water-based caulk is a warning on the tube to keep it from freezing. Another is marketing language that says something like “easy water cleanup.”
Be aware that an acrylic or latex caulk that has been “siliconized” is still a water-based caulk that will shrink. I would not use such caulk on the exterior of a building. I like water-based caulks for covering up joints in trim on the interior. For anything else, I steer clear of them.
Solvent-based caulks. The solvent is typically mineral spirits and, similar to a water-based caulk, a solvent-based caulk cures on evaporation of the solvent. That means it will shrink, though typically a little less than water-based formulations.
Solvent-based caulks are typically 60% to 80% solids and will shrink to 20% to 40% of their original dimension. They are typically very sticky and therefore adhere well to substrates. In official terms, they typically have good cohesion (meaning the material sticks well to itself) and adhesion (meaning it sticks well to a properly prepared substrate).
The primary consideration for a solvent-based caulk is that the curing process will off-gas some solvent material, which means high VOCs and a short-term hazard to indoor air quality. I steer clear of them for interior use, but these caulks are very good outside and typically come in several colors. I like to use them when I need a color-matched caulk for siding.
Polyurethane caulks cure on exposure to the moisture in the air. Since they do not cure by evaporation like water- and solvent-based caulks, they do not shrink when they cure. They are nearly 100% solids—you get what you squeeze out of the tube. Based on what I hear from a wide range of exterior contractors, polyurethanes are typically the preferred caulk for exterior use. The downside of polyurethanes is they do not stand up well to UV light and have to be replaced after a few years of exposure to the sun.
Silicone caulks. I am talking about pure silicone sealant, not a “siliconized” formulation. Pure silicone is a nearly 100% solids material that cures on exposure to the moisture in the air. It does not “dry,” and that means it does not shrink. Mistakenly, many people believe silicone is the go-to sealant for all applications and make a lot of assumptions about what silicone caulk can do.
Not all formulations are equal. There are two basic types of silicone caulk—acetoxy and oxime. The acetoxy formulation is what you will usually find on the shelves at lumberyards and big box stores. These caulks release acetic acid when curing, giving off a vinegar smell that can be an irritant to some people. Clear, 100% acetoxy formulations are unpaintable; the paint does not adhere to them and separates from the caulk. The biggest problem with acetoxy silicones, though, is they can cause corrosion of some materials. This was a bigger problem in the past, when silicone sealant technology was new and there was too much “free acid” in a lot of formulations. But even now, with mature product lines, adhesion and corrosion can be problems on acrylic, PVC, ABS, galvanized steel, and brass, depending on the product line.
Oxime formulations are “neutral cure”—meaning they release pH-neutral substances that are noncorrosive—and are specified by many material manufacturers to avoid the possibility of corrosion.
Silicones bond well to nonporous substrates like tile, glass, and most metals but don’t work as well on porous materials like stone, masonry, and unpainted wood. They work well for wet areas, like baths and kitchens. I also use neutral-cure silicone to apply silicone bulb as weatherstripping on door astragals. In commercial applications, silicone is the go-to product for structural glazing.
Advanced polymers include caulks labeled MS (modified silicone) polymer, STPE (silyl terminated polyether), or a “hybrid.” They are nearly 100% solids—so they do not shrink—they cure on exposure to moisture in the air, and they have great adhesion, cohesion, expansion, and durability. Many of the newer liquid flashing products fit into this category.
These are my preferred caulks for almost all exterior applications: They are usually easy to work with because they are typically more viscous (thicker), but you need to use a good caulk gun that has a higher thrust ratio (meaning the plunger moves a short distance for each full pump of the trigger). Some tend to skin over quickly, a property that is useful to me when I work in a light rain, because I don’t need to worry about the caulk diluting before it cures. Since we are covering a wide range of sealant materials in this category, it is wise to confirm in the tech sheets available on the manufacturer’s website that the sealant has the particular properties you want. (If the manufacturer is being cagey about revealing the material, check the MSDS, where manufacturers have to identify the ingredients.)
The organization of caulk types in this article is based on my experience. In particular, several years ago I worked on an EIFS (exterior insulation and finish system) project in California. After beginning the project, we learned that the window manufacturer would not warranty its product when installed with residential EIFS. But we were already underway: The windows had been purchased and we had to make it work. To learn more about EIFS applications, I met with a waterproofer who was well-versed in commercial work, especially EIFS installations, and it was an amazing “aha” moment for me when he said he was not familiar with water- or solvent-based caulks in his usual work. This surprised me, because in our residential world, for the most part, contractors favor a certain water- or solvent-based caulk, either because of the easy cleanup (for water-based) or for the variety of colors (for solvent-based). At the waterproofer’s suggestion, we selected a neutral-cure silicone for our EIFS project, and we were able to get a warranty from the window manufacturer once we disclosed our application details.
That job put me on a track to learn more about caulks and sealants (as well as adhesives and tapes—other everyday products in our world of construction for which some understanding of chemistry is helpful). In particular, that job gave me an appreciation for how important the right sealant is for each job. Different product manufacturers can be picky about what they will and won’t accept. In the commercial construction world, this is much more controlled. In residential work, there are fewer controls and a lot of assumptions are made. It’s worth pushing for tighter specs on the sealants you use. Don’t just grab any caulk off the shelf if you are concerned for performance and longer durability. As a general rule, on any exterior, weather-sensitive application, we should be using high-solids-content caulks with good adhesion and cohesion. It’s also important to define the properties you want, as the brands and the chemical formulations change over time.
I’ve discussed my preferred caulks here, but you might have your own preferences or know of brands I have not used. Once you find what works, of course, share what you learn with your crew and trade partners, provide them training, and above all, push them to use best practices for installing caulks and sealants (which is the subject of a different article).
https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/ex...cle&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=JLC_100420&
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Plumbing final is completed, electrical final will be next week, trim guys finished up and did an amazing job. Buddy and I have been starting at 2:30A.M. to get all the nail holes and seams caulked and everything painted. We just have touch ups left. We will be looking for renters soon....Then preparing to remodel the 3 plex.
Last edited:
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No pictures but I'll try to draw a mental one;
They've been installing underground utilities beneath I80 next to my shop. Drove by today and they're pulling the cables through the conduits that they bored in last week. To pull the cables they aren't using a tugger in the classic sense. They parked a rubber tracked trackhoe next to the manhole and put the blade down on the front and bucket / arm down on the back side to lift both tracks off of the ground. Then they wrapped their tugger rope around the slot between the treads on one of the tracks and used it as the capstan. Genius!
Maybe all of the utility guys are on to that trick but I thought it was one of the coolest things I'd seen in a while. I've got a trackhoe so I've got to try that too. Don't know that I need to pull anything. But I'll think of something.
They've been installing underground utilities beneath I80 next to my shop. Drove by today and they're pulling the cables through the conduits that they bored in last week. To pull the cables they aren't using a tugger in the classic sense. They parked a rubber tracked trackhoe next to the manhole and put the blade down on the front and bucket / arm down on the back side to lift both tracks off of the ground. Then they wrapped their tugger rope around the slot between the treads on one of the tracks and used it as the capstan. Genius!
Maybe all of the utility guys are on to that trick but I thought it was one of the coolest things I'd seen in a while. I've got a trackhoe so I've got to try that too. Don't know that I need to pull anything. But I'll think of something.
Scratchin my chin a bit on this one.... super busy with other things so I haven't yet put time into thinking about it but she wants to seal the hole to make pest proof but would like to make the area accessible for the future. When over there looking at it I said I'm not seeing any easy solution and I'm thinking that just sealing it up and tearing through it in the future would probably be cheaper than engineering what you're looking for. That's pretty much where I keep coming back to in my mind. Anybody see any solutions that might work?
One thing I thought of was making a little fox with cutouts for the pipes that would them slide together but that's going to be too much work with the different pipes here and there. I think spray foam is going to be my friend here.
And this one too...not nearly as bad.
I don't know how but it got turned sideways after resizing it
One thing I thought of was making a little fox with cutouts for the pipes that would them slide together but that's going to be too much work with the different pipes here and there. I think spray foam is going to be my friend here.
And this one too...not nearly as bad.
I don't know how but it got turned sideways after resizing it
